Metal Maxima

iTrader: (30)

Ok, here's the deal. I am soon going to have my arc-audio 4150-XXK running my frontstage active. What I am considering is throwing a 4" Rainbow into the kick panel to make a 3-way setup with my Arc Audio ACS 265s.

Now, the question is, how should I power these in order to go active on all three fronts? Could I go

6.5" ---> XXK
Tweeter ---> XXK
4" ---> 9833 HU amp

Or, should I just run the 6.5" and tweet through the OEM Arc X-Over and run the 4" off of the othre channel.

OR, should I just abandon the 4" altogether?

Cant_Get_Ryte

iTrader: (52)

in doing the 4 off of the hu youd lose out on the ...tuneability...thats just what it looks like to me. I would have to say amp it like you have listed in part two until you come across another two channel or something.

MannyNJ2k2max

iTrader: (3)

you need two extra chs of amplification ,along with 2chs of bandpass xover control

OR...

4150 ch 1/2 to Arc xover (running tweets and some Rainbow 4's HP off HU)
ch 3/4 to ARC mids (banpassed of rear chs of HU)

pikers

I'd run the 6.5" in the door, and 4" in a kick with the tweet. Get a solid four channel amp and run the 4"/tweet through their xover; cross over the 6.5" in the door low-passed at about 400hz.

You should use the xovers in the HU; screw rears. If you must, run them off HU power; I franfly wouldn't worry about them much if at all, unless you feel guilty leaving speaker openings open.

BBOYSTEVIE

My opinion for what it's worth (not much): abandon it and stick with the two way given the choices you have.

A solid install (which I know isn't the question with you), Ultimate control, flexibility, tunability is king in SQ car audio IMO. A 3 way active front stage can of course be the bomb diggidy if/when it all comes together, but it can be a nightmare if you're trying to rig it with limited x/o and power alternatives. IN this case, I'd say K.I.S.S.

You wanna step it up a notch, keep it cheap, and show off those killer glassing skills of yours? Put those 6.5's and tweets in the kicks and ditch door speakers altogether. They could be smaller than you'd think!

Seriously, though. I'd wait till you have the right processing to go 3 way front state, personally.

505max94se

iTrader: (15)

10chars

pikers

+2.

Better idea than mine. Although mine might be easier if you can get some Q-Logic kicks on the cheap and deaden the heck out of them. They really do sound OK if you apply a layer or two of Dynamat Extreme to the inside.

Pearl96Max

iTrader: (151)

Dan like I said in the PM...IF ou got the ability (processing,amp channels) to do it, by all means go for it. You definately wont be dissapointed. I think Me Manny and You need to meet up. Being that we have active 3 way setups, youll leave yearning to do it too.

505max94se

iTrader: (15)

Don, what midrange drivers are you using?

unrealii

iTrader: (8)

You definitly need an amp. If you half azz it, you'll be wanting to fix it later, so either find a different configuration where you can properly amp everything or dont go 3 way.

ElVito1981

iTrader: (4)

can't you just use 1 amp to power both channels of the 3-way. After all, all three drivers of each channel connect to the same crossover. That's the easiest and most effective way I think.

Pearl96Max

iTrader: (151)

Dyn MD140s

jigga123

x2 to have such a great setup and then use HU power would be a shame. A small quality amp will give you much more control and cleaner sound.

Cant_Get_Ryte

iTrader: (52)

its different. he wouldnt be using the passives, hed be looking at only sending certain freqs to each speaker group so
tweets
mids
voc's

would all need their own independent power source, as well as xover channels to properly run em.

ElVito1981

iTrader: (4)

oh I see, yeah but that seems like a heck of lot more work. How would you be able to hook up 3 power wires to your battery terminal? I was barely able to fit 2!!!! And also, to be able to power each frequency to a separate amp, you would need each crossover to have three 3 inputs. (either that or use multiple crossovers) I don't know of any crossovers with 3 input terminals.

machinehead

In order to run a 3 way setup, you need: a flexible 3way xover, an eq(30 bands being preferable), and adequate power. Looking at what you have now, you'll need an Arc xxk2100, a 3 way xover, and a couple of eqt's. Or if you have cash to spend, pick up an alpine h701. If I were you, I'd put 8's in the doors and the comp set in the kicks. This would allow you to do everything in stages as well. Put the set in kicks for a while, then when funds/time allow, throw some 8's in the doors.

Pearl96Max

iTrader: (151)

I believe he should have the crossover in his HU although not bandpassable, an EQ isnt "needed: though it could help. My 5 band on the DXE has been sufficent.

+1 on the 8s though

505max94se

iTrader: (15)

h701 only does a 2-way up front (although you can use the rear preouts to make it 3-way but that defeats the purpose os having 5.1). You can use the 701 with a seperate 2-way x-over (audio control) to achieve a 3-way front.

Best to worst 3-way options:
-New alpine f#1 status hu/2 processors
-older alpine f#1 status pxa-h900 (my favorite)
-pioneer p9 combo
-alto mobile processor
-alpine h701 and seperate 2-way active crossover
-seperate 3-way active crossover

BTW, I have an audio control 24xs active x-over for sale: 3-way front+sub or 2-way front+2-way rear+sub (basically two 2-way x-overs with a 1 bandpass sub x-over in one unit). I'll let it go for $100 shipped. PM me if your interested.

Just buy an old alpine pxa-h900 (f#1 status)......

Cant_Get_Ryte

iTrader: (52)

power i meant amplification...sorry for the confusion i do that alot

505max94se

iTrader: (15)

9833 should have a pro mode switch on the back that allows you to use the rear preouts in a 2-way active setup. If it does go into "pro mode," it'll do bandpass on the mid. I know this because I did it with 9815 and my rainbow pro van kicks

BBOYSTEVIE

The F1 status stuff is grossly overpriced.

If he's not planning on running 5.1, and a true 5.1 at that (really 5.1 meaning not just rear fill, but the actual rear channels 5.1 programming) which I don't think he mentioned that he's planning on doing, the Alpine 701 combo does exactly what he needs and with pretty unlimited processing control. I sold my Clarion DRZ (another 3 way front stage option not mentioned above) in favor of the 701 doe to it's unlimited processing in a 3 way front stage setup. While I was originally worried about noise floors and unknown DAC's and stuff with the Alpine 701, World Championship after World Championship doesn't lie. Sooo many competitors use it for a reason....Its affordable and gets the job done with all the x/o, eq and time alignment flexibility that you could ever possibly need in a car audio install.

All he needs are one of the following: P9 combo, Clarion DRZ, Alpine F1 (overpriced, not normally feasable), Alpine 701 combo, the Altomobile setup (forget the numbers now), or something I'm not thinking of now ( I guess the DXE would work?..not much experience w/ that) . He doesn't need any extra x/o's in addition to any of these (unless he really wants to try a true 5.1, which I'm hoping isn't the case. Just use the "rear" channels as your midrange or midbass channel (as rear is the second bandpassable channel) and you're good to go.

505max94se

iTrader: (15)

I was thinking about the drz (denon, mclintosh, fosgate, I think they're all the same), just couldn't remember if it did a 3-way. I thought you had to use a seperate x-over with it. Now that I think of it, are you positive the drz does 3-way??

I agree, F#1 stuff is overpriced but it is the best and it is nice. 701 is nice but like you said, the dac is somewhat unknown. Akthough a few days ago my friend in NM took his 701 apart to see what kind of dac(s) it had. It said BB (Burr Brown) on the chip and it had a model number. He went on to Texas Instruments website and typed in the number. It's an 8ch 24bit burr brown dac and there's only one of them in the processor.

If he's doing 3-way front without rear I'd say the p9 is the best. It's what I have in my car. I've heard the 701 and the drz but I like the p9 best.

I should have been more specific but I was in a hurry (homework) when I said that. You're right, if he doesn't want rear fill, he should go with the 701. BTW, I HATE rear speakers, they f@#$ up the imaging. Does the 9833 have the ability to control the 701? If not he's going to have to either get a screen or a controller.

BBOYSTEVIE

The DRZ DEFINATELY does 3 way front stage plus a sub. Had it, did it, works fine. The DRZ is no Denon Z1 or "Deniford" HU. The Denon and "Deniford" have no processing. The DRZ obviously does.

His head unit will not controll the H701, so he'd need a controller which is 200 bucks. . I found it more convenient to get the head unit that does control the 701, the DVA 9860. Controlls the processor, dvd, mp3, cd player for @370 shipped. I'll prolly eventually pick up the controller as it's a little easier to tune with and a total piece of cake to hide away.

P9 is an awesome combo unit. I'd personally go Alpine or P9 in this scenario, as I obviously did. P9 apparently has the better internal goodies, whether we can hear that or not in tuned car I donno. Alpine has the advantage with price and just a tiny tiny bit more flexible (that darn midrange/midbass x/o point is just a lil too high, but that can be worked around....)

I'm anti-rear speakers too...

505max94se

iTrader: (15)

Huh??? please explain....

I don't know why I confused the drz with the denon. I have heard it but I haven't done my research on it.

As far as price 701 wins. How much would it cost for a 701 and the dva9680?? Paid $860 shipped for my p9 combo. Looks and performs like it's brand spanken new and even came in the original packaging with all of the parts.

BBOYSTEVIE

I got my combo for 550-600 shipped New head unit, used processor. You could get the combo new all day for 750 ish.

As far as the midrange/midbass x/o point, I forget which it was, but obviously affects the other one. I think it's the midbass that won't lowpass lower than 250, or is it the midrange that won't highpass lower than 250? Forget which, not the biggest deal in the world, but something that needs to be worked around. I'm hoping to cross over my midrange closer to 150 to get as much from my kicks as possible. Not the biggest difference, but just a shame when they make such an incredible unit, and leave it just a step or two from perfection.

505max94se

iTrader: (15)

You're right, i totally forgot about that. The midrange won't x-over lower than 250 on the p9. Dam, That's why I wanted the 3w2 be because they'll go so low (I think 180ish if sealed) and they're small enough to put on the pillar/dash. I'll still have 250 and up all in the pillars.

You know your $hit. You know more about my p9 than I do. Now I feel like an idiot....

505max94se

iTrader: (15)

Sorry Metal Maxima, looks like BBOYSTEVIE and I jacked your thread.

BBOYSTEVIE

Don't be too impressed. I'm a geek. Also, knowing about products or having nice products in ones forum signature is a whole lot different thing than being a great installer of them. Be impressed if/when you get to hear and see my completed car. Hopefully the final product will be impressive. Donno yet though.

Yeah it is a 250 lowpass on the midbass that scared me off. Great unit though, nonetheless.



Oh, and the P9 only allows phase adjustment in stereo, which I think is pretty worthless. Same as teh DRZ. One way or another, you're gonna have to get out of your car, go back to the amp, and switch wires around. The H700 allows you to flip any speaker's phase individually...the way God intended it.

BBOYSTEVIE

All in the name of info. If he goes 3 way front, he's now got all his options laid out for him. Anybody going three way front stage has to make an important, and usually expensive decision, and thats on the processing. With limited options and high prices (coming down though), its one nobody should just jump into based on brand name or convenience. It's really worth finding and getting the right one for you and your application.

The DRZ has the same midbass crossover point issue by the way. That and the limited EQ is why I switched.

I hope I'm done buying processing for a while

Oh, just to throw it out there as long as this thread has been hijacked...There IS a rarer P9 combo, either the European or Japanese version called the Carodozza that has a lower midbass lowpass x/o point. That would be a gem to have.

Metal Maxima

iTrader: (30)

Oy. Well, I thank everyone here for their input! I am going to see Don on Saturday, I'll keep everyone posted on where I am going with this, although I like Steve's idea of K.I.S.S. and going active-2 way...we'll see...