TurTLe*

iTrader: (11)

I'm decently happy with my stock Bose system for NOW, But i really hate the stock HU. Plus 2 bulbs in my HU is burnt out. I was thinking of just getting one of those adapters for the bose unit to put in an aftermarket HU. i was targeting something in the $150's ranges. I like how Alpine's are designed so i'll probaly pick one up. But i was wondering if the sound would be better to a noticeable point or would it just be all minor things.

If the gains are not really noticeable, i'll just probaly find a way to replace the 2 bulbs on my Bose HU and save up money untill i can afford a complete system overhaul.

Metal Maxima

iTrader: (30)

Yes, it would be better.

TurTLe*

iTrader: (11)

Can you give me a description of how much better the SQ would be. I hear a lot of people bashing on the bose system in general. The guys at bestbuy audio always bash it when they ask me what car i'm looking to install the HU on. Its hard to tell what kind of SQ a HU has at the store because #1 its a diffrent enviorment and #2 they have it hooked up with an amp with upgraded speakers as well. So no matter what, what it sounds like from inside the store will sound diffrent in your car.

Could you obviously tell the diffrence ?

TurTLe*

iTrader: (11)

BUMP.

10char

ElVito1981

iTrader: (4)

bose sucks yes. but don't listen to the guys at best buy and circuit city. They don't know jack **** and all the products they sell are garbage. You wanna go aftermarket with hi-fi products that CC and BB don't sell, like MB Quart, Focal, Diamond Audio, Rainbow, DLS, CDT, Dynaudio, and Eclipse.

TurTLe*

iTrader: (11)

That wasn't my main question. You guys all say bose sucks and what not. Or aleast 75% of the people on this forum does. I don't see it. I know its not as clear as other systems but to me its just fine. But say i get an HU adapter for the Bose and put in something like, a JVC-DV5100, which i've been looking at for a little while mainly due to the dvd-mp3 playback. How much of a change would be to the overall SQ?

For instance on a scale of 1-20. If stock non-bose maxima's are rated at 7 and Bose was rated at 10, how would you rate if i kept the bose speakers for now and add a JVC-Dv5100 HU?

ElVito1981

iTrader: (4)

I would say like a 12 or so, meaning only marginally better. But if you're gonna go aftermarket on the head unit, you're gonna wanna go aftermarket on everything else too. And if you do go aftermarket, don't get mainstream brands like JVC, Sony, or Rockford Fosgate. Be sure to get hi-end brands like the ones I mentioned in the above post.

TurTLe*

iTrader: (11)

i hope you mean speaker wise not to go with mainstream. i wasn't really planning on going mainsteam on speakers for a fact. I hate the fact that everyone has those rockford 10's or 12's subs in the same enclosures, the ones that bestbuy sells for 200$ with an amp or something. I'm not all into that stuff. Subs i dont think i'll be getting. mainly due to that fact that i like my trunk space and I dont like my rear window shaking

But as for the headunit, if you read my first post, i mentioned that i was planning on possibly re-doing the whole system. But as of right now i lack the time and money to do the whole system. speakers, amp and HU. PLus i lack the amount of research on speakers. My main goal would be to possible put new componts in the the front and maybe just filler speakers in the rear all powered up thru a medium size amp and get a HU that plays dvd's for future expansions.

All this stuff isn't for sure as times changes. Right now i have enough money for a headunit and I was just wondering if the diffrence was marginal. If i wasn't able to tell a difference then i would probaly save up untill i can afford a whole complete system.

As for the HU i don't know of any good non-mainstream HU's out there. I really like the JVC DV5100 as i stated above. If you have any other recommendations on the HU please let me know so i can put some thought into it. I'm not a audio buff. And this will be my first install of anything audio related =P

slickrick

iTrader: (12)

you are on the right track with putting a new radio in. it is a must IMO to have an easily tuneable system that sounds good. regardless of upgrading in the future or not, i recommend an aftermarket H/u from Pioneer or Eclipse.

TurTLe*

iTrader: (11)

i like the design of Alpines a little more then the design of Pioneer. Eclipse's i haven't seem too much of and the ones that i do see are the high prices ones. For a simple CD/Mp3 HU i just want to spend aobut $200 with all the harnesses and adapters. So that woould be about 150$ just for the HU. Like i said i'm not the biggest audio guy, nor a big audio guy for that matter. Just want a little more power.

cmosanna

It all depends on how much you are willing to spend, what sounds good to you, and how loud you want it.

Just go out and listen to different brands and find what is right for you or else you wont be happy with all the money you just spent

slickrick

iTrader: (12)

any H/u will not affect the bose setup that much to make it that much louder. if you go aftermarket everything, thats a whole new animal.

sodie14

bose has a decent amount of the lower range "MID"...but isnt known for SQ on its highs, mids, or lows...i didnt mind my BOSE in my car either, but i like the aftermarket stuff better because i can design how they sound. i have an Alpine H/U as well and would recommend the 9845 or 9847...good price and good quality for what you're getting.

makdaddy386

Pioneer is a solid product from my experience. I am not claiming that they are the best out there but they are very solid especially for their price tags. Eclipse is really nice as well if you can splurge. As far as integrating with Bose, you will definetly want to buy an integration harness by the way (different from standard harness), you will notice a little increase in SQ if you have the ears to listen for it but nothing major by any means. Headunit is undoubtedly the first place to start when upgrading stereo sytems though so keep researching, like stated above, your on the right track.

Kevin

makdaddy386

O and just some food for thought, word has it that Alpine products in general (mainly HU's though) are significantly dropping in quality. Stuff from a year ago and back seems to be real good but the newer stuff is supposedly heading downhill. I'm not standing on the podium but I just figured I would throw that out there. And Pioneer > JVC

TurTLe*

iTrader: (11)

yea i just checked out everything about the JVC and picked up some things to look for in HU such as pre-amp's and stuff. Even tho i might not need it now, the JVC had only 1 pre-amp.

Does someone know the exact model number of the bose adapter i'll be needing? I looked around for the PAC units but i only found the to add subs to the car. The one with the box and 4 lights for the 4 speakers. Unless thats the one i'm suppose to be getting. Cruchfield has them for sale for $40. But i figure i can find it on the org from somone cheaper but i don't have the name of the unit to start looking.

MrPGE

What about Kenwood HU's. I've had a couple and liked the way they sound in small systems(HU+4 speakers)

nismos14

iTrader: (56)

They'd be fine. But remember kenwood's end up on the bench tester alot (to figure out what's wrong with them)

Pearl96Max

iTrader: (151)

No adaptor needed. Sound quality increase would depend on the HU you end up with.

FormorAccordMan

iTrader: (3)

I CANT BELIEVE THAT NOBODY IS SUGGESTING RIPPING OUT THE BOSE SPEAKERS AS WELL!

I mean really, it's the speakers themselves that are the major weak link in the setup. The only thing that he is gonna get out of the head unit swap is a little more tone control. THATS about IT. The resolution of the stock speakers are really not up to the task of differentiate the differences between SQ of various head units. first and formost- the placement of the tweets is far recessd behind the door panelif he is a 97-99. How the hell are you gonna get any decent amount of imaging when the tweet cant disperse efficiently? I'm sorry, but its not worth it in my book to replace just the stock bose unit for a 150 dollar head unit. Not to sound like an ****, but you will be wasting money doing only half the job. Go big or go home. You really will have to pay to play, especially when sound quality is your objective. A headunit swap all by itself will offer minimal benefits. its like throwing a sc on festiva.

Pearl96Max

iTrader: (151)

So youll be coming down for a Big setup soon?

nismos14

iTrader: (56)

I think the bose crossovers/amps are the major weak spot.

FormorAccordMan

iTrader: (3)

Well, when I say big, i mean qaulity. My system is a pretty humble setup, but it sounds incredible.

Alpine 9855/XM direct add on.
fronts EDi-6500's tweeter very close to midbass which are pretty much CDT hd's.
Soundstream Vangough vga-800.2 for the fronts
MB quart midbases in the rear powered by an old alpine v-12 (rarely turned on- onloy when i have passangers do i put on any rear fill)
Single perfect 10 sealed powered by on old ppi-2360

All in all it has an amazing sound.

with 950 watts rms on tap, it bumps, but doesnt exactly wake the neighborhood. I'm Happy. I was thinking of upgrading the sub though, but i dont have a whole lot of power to play with.whole car is second skined twice over.... I just finished paying off my fiance's engagement ring, so i am **** poor.

Pearl96Max

iTrader: (151)

I was referring to quality as well. A set of 360s, a few Genesis amps,etc...

NightRider

iTrader: (6)

Umm, I work at a Circuit City car audio division and I believe you are very wrong in that statement. I guarantee you that the people in my division (including myself) know more than you about car audio. We can only sell what they give us to sell, however most of the installers that we have have a whole lot of experience to give you the sound that you are going for. 100 percent of our customer base doesnt know jack **** about car audio, so to suggest certain brands as is listed above will only confuse them. Oh BTW...Circuit City sells Eclipse.

Pearl96Max

iTrader: (151)

Since when?

Pearl96Max

iTrader: (151)

Actually better question...IS Eclipse aware of this? Im thinking No.

jedireland

I am interested in the Eclipse CD 8445, which is pricey, but has True Bass, Surround Sound II, and all these other digital gizmos, plus 8 volt pre outs. Are these features worth the money?

Here's the link:
http://www.eclipse-web.com/cd/cd8445.html

I think I need to replace my old Eclipse from 2000, which is giving me the "inf 3" error (discs dirty), but the problem resides with the cd player. I tried a laser lense cleaning disc, but it didn't work. Probably time to put it to rest?

slickrick

iTrader: (12)

i think he questioned more of the procedure of aquiring car audio from a BB or CC rather than the employees that work there. bottom line is those stores do not sell the HiFi brands and have to sell the brands they carry, thus they have to "sell" the customer on the brands they have. i do not think any car audio person in sales at a CC or BB says "go search online and buy some hifi audio".

1996blackmax

iTrader: (2)

I do not believe that is correct.

BigL0U

How much do Bose speakers push assuming that theyre all the same from 01-03 ...??? Would Pioneer be a good substitute considering that my HU will be the AVIC - D1 ???

slickrick

iTrader: (12)

go with another brand than pioneer for your interior speakers. brand matching to head units means nothing. speakers do not comprehend what h/u they are running from.

Pearl96Max

iTrader: (151)

Pretty much any HU will perform the same..

9Nails

I agree Pearl96Max. Competition between different decks is tight, and the components used between them is similar. Musically it's hard to spot the difference from one to another. Nobody is talking about the quality of the pre-amp or voltage of the RCA outputs, they're just looking at a price range. And nobody is saying that $200 is a laugh to the face of the Bose deck, a deck in the price range won't compare musically. Yeah, you might get some nifty buzz words like MP3 or iPod ready, but the circuitry will be inferior and the controls might feel cheap.

you might be able to tell all ready that I love the Bose sound system. They nail the one thing that is hardest to build in an audio system, excellent imaging. I swear that good imaging is harder to design than any good sound quality system. And don't get me on high SPL systems, that is the easiest systems of all to build. Ask any descent installer how to tune a sub box for good frequency response and they'll be able to tell you. But ask the installed how to get the best imaging for all the occupants in the car, and he'll scratch his head, and maybe tell you that it's impossible, involves too much DSP technology, or is just too costly. But Bose can do it! Are they better at installing? Not even close. So they use better speakers? Nope, in fact Bose speakers are often cheaply made in Mexico. How do they do it then? Bose engineers and scientists study psycho acoustics and employs that education by cutting out the extremely directional frequencies and leaving what's necessary to reproduce noise musically, but with a sound stage that is similar to the musician playing in front of you. Certain frequencies in a spectrum can't be heard or aren't easily heard by the human ear, and you can be tricked in to thinking that each note came to you from the correct position on a stage. Bose puts this technology into it's head unit and amplification.

It's true that Bose music systems will lose every time if you measure them with a spectrum analyzer. And some of you are in tune to those frequencies and can spot the subtle nuances of a Bose system. I hear it all the time, it's lacking bass or lacking highs. True, but try to fix those problems and you'll be able to identify exactly where you added speakers. And in most cases, it wount sound like the music was presented to you the listener but to your left or right ear specifically. Not many of us have the thousands needed for a full range audio spectrum analyzer, or the desire for perfectly flat 20hz to 20khz response. And if you end up with solid SQ, better cement your head in that position, because one move and you screwed up your imaging. One window down, one passenger added, and your SQ is shot to hell.

It's a similar argument to how nobody complains that FM radio is restricted, yet it is. And then when you play a CD, you don't think, "Hey this frequency spectrum is so much better than FM!" you think, "Ahh, finally no hissing from a weak FM signal."

I don't get why you people say that Bose sucks, and aftermarket is the way to go. I know some of you are trying to knock the fillings out of your teeth with Bass and SPL. And that's cool - I love that too. But don't go running around saying that Bose sucks (or blose!) because I'm certain that you can't reproduce the sound imaging that Bose can with any of your head units, amps and speakers.

You can replace the Bose desk with a sub $200 unit, and you'll pick up high frequencies that you didn't hear before and you might hear deeper lows. But your speakers might sound harsh when turned up and you're likely to fatigue your ears from such harsh sound. You will then try to fix the problem by installing new speakers. It wont work, so you'll try an amp. You'll be thrilled with the new volume of sound, so loud and powerful, but now you need an active crossover to block the bass to the door speakers when they clip. You lost most of your bass, so now you're adding a sub. And it still doesn't sound like the band is in the right place. It sound slike the drummer is in the trunk, the singer is on your left knee, and the synthsizers are somewhere in the glove box. You've mismatched the speakers, amps, and head unit so your audio spectrum is fubared too, and you try to fix your SQ with a parametric EQ. Now it's much a louder and a more confusing sound stage than ever. Your imaging went to hell, and you can't figure out how to get it back. It will be like a dog chasing your tail.

Pearl96Max

iTrader: (151)

Please drive to Jersey, listen to a few aftermarket systems. Then compare to your Blose.

No offense intended here, but you need to get out more if you think the imaging of Blose cant be compared to.

nismos14

iTrader: (56)

Seriously if bose has to remove certain frequencies to attain this, there is something terribly wrong with their process.

9Nails

I don't need to go to Jersey to hear the dif. We have plenty of sound competitions out here in San Diego. But I must say that it's 1 in 100 cars that I hear where the installer knew what he was doing with imaging and designed a good system. But if you touch the window or seat controls, the driver will kill you! I hear groups of cars which are loaded heavy on bass. And the rest have to be constantly tweaked for good response.

And I agree that it's so sad that Bose has to take out some of the spectrum to get good imaging. It's blasphemous that they would treat music like that! But imaging is so fickle to the position of the listener and drivers are so tightly focused that one trade-off that is necessary if you want to be able to adjust your seats and still have a semblance of stereo separation. If there was a speaker that I could build to fix the problem I'd be a millionaire. No, billionaire! But I aint that smart, and the problem is that we sit in the wrong spot in a car to enjoy music any way.

Pearl96Max

iTrader: (151)

I must say then, they have to be bad installers.

Just the speaker placement alone in the Maxima is not ideal for proper imaging. Especially in 5th gens with so much reflection off the dash.

9Nails

You got me on the 5th gen. I can't recall the interior or hearing any. Reflection can sometimes be used work for you, but I'll trust your word that it's not ideal. I've heard hundreds of cars where the factory speakers are in the wrong spots. Manufactures just don't care enough about audio.

There's a helluva lot of bad installers out there. Very few installers have an engineering degree and actually understand audio engineering. Luck plays a serious part in most of the installs I've heard. Most installers are payed slightly above minimum wage because the average customer just wants to pay free to nothing to have their speakers installed. There's possibly thousands of installers in my home town, and seeing some of the work at the shows, maybe 3 or 4 that I would personally take my car to. Or perhaps I'm too picky, but that's the truth.

I've been to the local sound-off's, IASCA challenges and Extreme Autofest challenges, I've seen the cars from all over the states. Good imaging isn't confusing just the San diego installers...

jedireland

9nails, I thanks for your discussion about imaging. Actually, my buddy has a Bose system in his RL, and I always liked it, but I couldn't explain why. I described the SQ as "dimensional", and I couldn't get my system to perform the same, although in specific areas, my system is more impressive (and it's a modest system, with only an Alpine Flex 4 35w x 4 rms amp, and 50 w speakers front and back (eclipse and boston acoustic rallys).

I need to replace my old Eclipse HU (broke after 5 years), and I explain to salesmen that I wanted the "dimensional" sound I hear in the Bose system. They just look at me funny, and then insist I need a subwoofer and new amps. Now, I'm considering the Eclipse CD8445, which has a lot of features that may help in imaging. Do you think they help significantly? Like SRS Surround II, True Bass, 8 volt preouts, etc. I don't have a subwoofer, and I don't want it, because I haven't heard a setup out there that plays clear at low volume and with good imaging (I guess) like I've seen with a factory Bose system, therefore I don't believe more amps and sub are the answer for my quest....
Advice? Thanks!