i have 4 10's in a sealed box in my 4th gen max. the other day i took out the back seats and rear deck to hunt down my rattles.. so much more sound comes in now its unbelievable. like a totally different system. so i was thinking of cutiing up my rear deck to accept multiple ports to allow more sound into the cabin. has anyone done this before? thoughts? opionions? experiences?.. thanks in advance

 

Honestly I wouldn't recommend it without some serious bracing. But check the photo in my profile as an alternative to subs in the trunk.

 

sorry man cant seem to find your pic.. am i doing something wrong other than just clicking profile under your name?

 

Well, it works when I click on my own profile. But the photo was originally saved to my hard drive so maybe it isn't really making it to the www. But my subs are firing into the cabin from the deck. They are in a sealed box mounted under the deck.

 

would it be possible for you to email this pic at kctyphoon@aol.com.. in curious to see it. also? if i were to cut multipe cicrualr port- holes in my rear deck frame how and what am i compromising? correct me if im wrong, but isnt the purpose of using circular shapes because it does not compromise structure?

 

Check your mail . . .

 

KC, what I am doing is using the hole already cut out for the BOSE subwoofer. Under the back dash, there is already a big rectangle cut out of it so I won't cut any more metal out. I bought a grill for the BOSE sub, and I am going to use that as a port. The hole on the grill is only about 8", so I drilled out more holes in it to make for more air pass through (it's about 12" long now by 8" wide,,,like a 6X9 shape). I haven't cut the dash part out yet, but soon as I get it in, I'll let you know. In comparison, I am only running 1 lonely 10" sub to your 4, so it actually may be no comparison at all....hehe
Good Luck.......D-MAN

 

you could cut a hole in the rear deck, but at the very minimum put another metal brace around the hole you cut out. use 1/8" steel or something at least that strong. use several bolts to clamp it down into place...

4th and 5th gens need all the frame stiffening they can get in the back end. not as much of a problem with my 3rd gen, but I still noticed a handling difference when I cut a 5x9" hole in my rear deck. bolted a "picture frame" using 1/8" steel around it and the car felt like it did before the hole.

actually didn't notice much sound improvement though... real intention of cutting the hole was so I could stick a pair of 4" ports through the rear deck..... but I screwed up on the sub box and put the 3 subs too close together and couldn't fit the 4" ports between them. had I moved them over 1" in the box, wouldn't have had the problem. oh well. live and learn.
Next system won't need ports or porting through the rear deck.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Matt93SE
[B]you could cut a hole in the rear deck, but at the very minimum put another metal brace around the hole you cut out. use 1/8" steel or something at least that strong. use several bolts to clamp it down into place...

4th and 5th gens need all the frame stiffening they can get in the back end. not as much of a problem with my 3rd gen, but I still noticed a handling difference when I cut a 5x9" hole in my rear deck. bolted a "picture frame" using 1/8" steel around it and the car felt like it did before the hole.

Interesting points Matt. I had an 8" sub installed into the rear deck on my 5th gen with a sealed box built around/underneath it into the trunk area. I know my installer didn't add any additional bracing for it but I haven't really noticed any obvious difference other than slight rattling which may be getting worse. I'm actually planning to go back and replace the 8" sub with a 10" one for a bit more low freq. extension without possibly damaging the 8". My question to the 5th geners out there is can I order a stock rear deck that is pre-cut for the 10" Bose sub or should I just cut out the opening a few more inches on my stock non-Bose equipped rear deck. If there is no difference in stiffness than its probably easier to stick with what I've done so far.

 

Well, in my 4th gen, I've tried amny different ways. It all depends on your sound goals.

1. I've fired 3 subs through the skihole behind the rear armrest. 2 at a 45 degree angle forward and 1 in reverse phase, magnet forward. Amazing SQ inside the car. Not for SPL outside the vehicle (ample outside, but not the goal).

2. 5th order firing through a 6" port through the rear deck. Again, amazing SQ inside the car, great sound and SPL outside from sound energy bouncing off of back glass (made my roof bounce a good 1.5-2"). However, it had a steep roll-off since it was a bandpass.

3. I've also cut a 14X5.5" hole in the rear for a much larger port with a metal grille I fabricated out of thick wire mesh and covered with stretch lycra. Tremendous sound energy everywhere!! Inside, outside, clear, deeeep bass from only 2 10's in transmission line enclosures. Best set up yet. Less space, more deep, accurate low-end.

Never experienced any more rattles or decrease in torsional rigidity. When done, correctly, you shouldn't either. Don't know if RSTB and/or RSB have anything to do with that though...

 

I cut a while in the rear deck about 3.5" by 1" to let my four 12"s vent into the cabin.. Moved all of my Midrange and Tweets to the front, and removed the 6x9's.. I checked with many bodyshop owners and Nissan Techs (including my dad) to verify that it would hurt the integrity of the rear of the car.. Since I have done this 2 years ago I have had no problems, and have barely no trunk rattles.. Plus the SPL jumped up by about 4dbs.. I recommend doing it, just take your time.. If you want pictures of the whole, or the custom vent cover we fabricated for it please email me.. or check out my HOMEPAGE.. thanks SAM

 

Ported rear deck, nope just cut it out and made my a new custom one! Can't find the close up of my rear deck but here you get the idea

 

yes....and it really doesnt help much ...mines about a 14x10 rectangle between the two stock holes...taking out back seat still dramatically helps though ...if you wanna go out and slam just ride out with out the back seat its not to uncomfortable :X

 

What about this...

A sub setup like SWEETSOUND2001 had in his Max (through the Ski-Hole):



With 2 10"s, but ported like:



In a 96 SE using the two BOSE speaker grills as covers to the ports... What do you think that would be like?

 

damn guys those are some set-ups.. i wish i could post a pic of my box to give you guys a better idea with what im working with.. basically what i was thinking of doing was getting a 4" hole saw and use it on a right angle drill and just goto town on my rear deck. i figure i could probably fit like 6 or 8 4" circular ports, and would just order the plastic ports and fit 'em in to make a clean look.. id really like two make this as low cost as possible considering all the money ive already dumped into it.. one more question for you guys that have your subs in the deck with a box built under them.. what did you do about those bars that run under the deck in the 4 th gen?? just took em off??

 

Using the factory bose grill is a nice option, it's what I basically did, you can see it on my site, the subs did fire right up and then it could vent right on through.

 

Reference the question about my custom deck with subs mounted to it: The steel beams were removed. Then disgarded. The MDF alone for my deck is 1 1/8 inch thick, solid. Not glued together. And the enclosure secured to the underside also imparts a great deal of rigidity to the rear (boot) of the car.

If you use the hole saw make sure you paint the metal edges on the deck. Or they will rust. And you can get some fabric that color matches the factory material and cover the pressboard that covers the deck. Then you won't need a grill.

 

this may be stupid.. but does it sound better to have the subs mounted in the rear deck firing at the back window than it does to just a sealed box in the trunk firing at the rear of the trunk? has any of you have the woofers in the trunk and then used the same ones and mounted them in the rear deck? what about rattles? overall how does it sound and does anyone have deatailed pics they can show me of the process?

 

I'll try to email some pics. The benefit is keeping the woofers in nearly perfect phase and time alignment with the other speaker cones in the cabin. It's mostly an SQ thing, but there is a huge reflected wave off the glass. In a perfect SQ environment the glass would bereplaced with something that would not reflect this secondary wave. Don't expect the pics today. It may take me a while to organize and deliver. Also, read the post about trunk dimensions.

 

It's not a stupied q at all. In simple terms in most cases, firing the subs toward the trunk lid makes it louder but causes a boomy sound. Having the subs in the rear deck or firing forward into the cabin keeps teh bass tighter but not as loud do to the wave not building up as much. Having the subs in the rear deck has been said to aid in the up front bass affect. Some say it is becuase the window reflects and carries the bass toward the front of the car.
Hope this helps clear some things up, in a simple manor.

 

so what would SOUND better in my car? i have 4 10's in a sealed box in my trunk now. would they sound as good/better/louder if i made a new deck and could squeeze all 4, or at least 3 in the rear deck with a box built underneath?.. also.. if i were to do this, what exactly is invloved? would i just be bolting a peice of mdf onto the metal deck, and then having a box built to fit underneath it with and seal the seems? or would i be cutting off most of the metal frame to accomodate the dimensions of the box and bolting the mdf onto the remaining metal? sorry for all the questions guys, but i started out by just trying to eliminate the rattles in the car and its lead into a big project now..

 

The frame does not need to be cut. But the thin steel of the deck should be disgarded. My three twelves fit with a little, but not much, room to spare. This install is not extremely difficult but will most likely cost you significantly more. More materials, more time, more effort, more mistakes, more corrections.

 

i wish i had 12's.. but i aint buyin anymore speakers

 

btw- do you have components in the deck also?

 

I've forgoten some of my www fundamentals, what is btw? If you mean my deck, no, there are no components. My rear components are 8 inch HEX drivers no longer available. They receive from 75 Hz to 2000 Hz. No highs to detract from the front stage and no lows to confuse the sub frequencies.

 

Tweeters in the rear= bad idea



Jmax- diamond isn't making the macdaddy/hex 8"s anymore?

 

Not since the 97, or 98 vintage.

 

Din't realize that i don't go looking for 8"s often. But they still appear in the 2k1 price directory as new. Guess it's time to update

 

Yeah, they never made an eight in the current Hex series. I wish they had made an SQ eight. The DA 8.6 I am using is a nice speaker, but the 1 inch voice coil has it's limits and won't find it's way into my front doors.

 

Diamonds web sight dosn't show it. But the 2k1 directory lists a
"macdaddy 8.4 & 8.8" in the current seirs that are out and "kevlar/nomex honeycomb cone, cast frame, santoprense surround, 3 inch voicecoil. For $330". I was looking through the book the last few nights looking into 8"s and found that one. Says it works in a ".35 cuft enclosure". Was very tempting. I'll admit ive never seen them in a 8" form in person. Seen and heard the 10"s and 12"s though very impressive. I wonder why they'd print that if theve been out so long.

 

I don't know why that was in the directory last year. From my conversations with the techs it was briefly discussed and discarded. They decided that the market was not open to 300 plus dollar eights. My loss, their loss, I dunno. I can always go elsewhere. And the need to research has always yeilded results, even if they don't show up for 12, 18, or 24 months. Patience and the fact that I don't have huge amounts of money(or even tiny amounts now) has turned into satisfaction with what I have. Every time I have had a complaint a review of the system showed an obvious error on my part, or an installers. And normally very easy remedies. Then, no complaints, not one. At least about the SQ. I always get complaints about the appearance and completeness. But I see no need to worry about those untill I have the money to complete the SQ to my liking.

 

Maybe that discusion some how lead to it acedently being listed. O well. It just fit what I needed so well, a small enclosure and great sub with ability to go low. Damn.

 

www.adireaudio.com

The 12" Brahma should start shipping soon. Then the 15" will be built. Hopefully they will also make an 8". If you send them an email requesting the eight and what you are looking for as far as results, it couldn't hurt. As for the SQ I am still waiting for my 12 to ship. So I haven't even done a cursory sketch of a test box. I do have nearly complete plans for a home theater sub with the Brahma in a 1.6 - 1.8 cubic ft box. Kinda big for that sub but I want below 20Hz extension. And it will probably be powered by one of the amps they sell so definitely won't be overpowered for that volume.

If you'd like to hear a few Macdaddy 12's, installed in a really tight sealed box I may be able to provide that experience. Let me know.

 

Ive heard the macdaddy 12"s, A fellow competer in my class has them and i like um alot. Thats why when i saw the 8" with similar respectalbe specs (for an 8") I was really happy. I don't need it to be capable of getting loud. Ive been looking for an 8" that will be very sonicly acurate and be albe to play low like you said down to 20hz accuratly, in a very small enclosure. Cuz ive been playing with the idea of putting it in the dash. But finding what im looking for hasn't been easy.

 

so jmax, what do you think i should do? once im done with all my insulating, im probably gonna make a rear deck out of mdf anyway. in the least it will cut down on vibration. once i have a template for the shape made i guess making another would be no big deal. do ya think i should make one with just a big port in it first and see how i like it? or should i just start making one to house a box underneath? i could fit 3 of my 10's up there easily, i dont know about the 4th, and then still have some space left for my mids. i want the system to be clear, and still be able to boom. im really wishing i had 12's
mind if i ask you something else.. i have diamond audio components. when i turn music up loud, all the highs completely muffle. installer told me it does that to keep themselves from blowing, but i cant see them doing this at the vloume they do. my friend has another set of components and no joke they friggin embarass mine with highs. could they be doing this cause i dont have a great head unit or should i just accept that i need different componets to eliminate this from happening. BTW-- (by the way). i have two sets of them, one in the front and one in the rear. they both do it at the same time. is that a sign if anything? i just took out my 4 10's and fosgate 1100, and for the time being put in 1 12" alummipro (spelling) just so i have something decent to listen to that i can move around easily. i disconnected my rear componets, ran the 12 off one of my rear channels, and my front set still cuts out as i described..

 

Dude it's up to you what you wanna do. Building a new deck and mounting the subs in there is one option but not the only one to getting it to sound good. You could do just about anytying and rebuild the deck as a grill and that will allow more to vent in. I'm not sure why you'd rather have 2 12"s in there instead of 4 10"s. Forget about mounting mids in the rear, I hate rear fill. But if you really must have them mount them in the doors.

As far as you mids, your installer is a dumbass." they distort to keep them from blowing" Give me a break. Check the gains on the amps. Could be the head unit, could be alot of things most likely it's coming down to the way it's setup.

 

do you have any pics you could show me?

 

yea im betting its the head unit too.. it really is a pos. but my e power button broke on my bose and i was desperate at the time so i just bought a double din jvc.. this was before everything else went in. rite now im tryin to get my hands on a kenwood 911dvd.. im thinking it will help alot.. listen guys, i apologize about all the questions, i know they must be annoying. obviously you people know alot more about this than i do and i trust your opionions more than most installers cause you have nothing to gain out of it. the only reason im asking so much is because i want to try to get the best idea of what the differences would be without having the ability of listen to yours first hand. also, its alot easier for me to ask a bunch of questions than it is to build 3 different boxes and cut up my car to see what works best.. but really. thanks for all the help so far.
rite now i think im leaning towards putting them in the deck. i think that will resolve most of my problems.. its kinda hard to keep down on rattles when i have them firing at the the trunk lid (facing the taillights not up). i think porting the deck wouldnt help me as much as some of the other guys becuase their subs fire up and not back like mine. letting them fire rite into the car seems like it would allow more sound in the cabin with less noise. seems it would be cleaner and more accurate too. i wouldnt have to drive around constantly with my armrest down to let more sound in either.

how does it sound outside the car? one more thing. would i have to have any concerns of the back window cracking or breaking the seal? seeing as i have the 4 10's (i actually have 6 to play with but im just gonna use 4)i dont think i can fit them all flush on the rear deck. do you think i should just go with 3? what if i had the 4 with 2 angled at each other? set up like [-v-v-] on the deck ?

 

Don't worry about the q's. If we din't want to answer we woun't. I just don't want you to jump on any one idea, just look at it from the whole. Building the rear deck to mount subs is easyer said than done if youve never done it b4. And being told over the net while it is informative it is not complete. As for the rear window cracking, NO. As for blowing the seals, not likley with what youve got going.

 

building any kind of box is really not a concern for me. if its something simple id rather just have a shop do it, but if its gonna get complicated ill just do it myself. i know ill be paying out my @ss if i want them to do it. in the least mabye id just pay for some one to make the plans and measurements to keep the box up to spec, but i wont have a problem making it.. sweetsound has his box on ebay.. looks nice.. id consider buying it but then im stuck with all my speakers.. i edited my last post while you were responding.. it was about have my 4 10" angled at one another on the deck? thoughts?