just wondering since im looking for one right now. preferably sony or alpine. does anyone use one? thanks

 

I almost bought one a couple years back. But the sound quality is not significantly better than a high quality tape deck, in some respects worse. With CDR and CD-RW on the market minidisc's are basically worthless. The sound quality is enough lower that you can tell it isn't a CD if you are familiar with the real version. And you can get CDR's, 25 for $10 or less.

 

I run plenty of MD's and have NEVER had a sound quality problem.
Your recording set up may be in question. I use CDs, CDRs, CDRWs and MDs. Most of the time, trhe MDs are stronger.

They are also more compact, durable, won't scratch (since they aren't as delicate) and don't skip AT ALL!

Hell, I can throw my MDs and not harm them. Try that with ANY CD. The only problem I've had is people hearing music I'm playing and wanting to 'borrow'. I show them the MD, and they get upset 'cause they can't play 'em. I have to burn the data onto a CD for 'em.

 

By the way, I run a Pioneer MEH-9000R series.

 

From what I have read MD's sound quality is limited similar to the way MP3 is limited. They are both compressed. So there are quite a few harmonics missing, along with data above 15khz. And I can hear a difference between a MP3 and a CD.

 

check out this site for good info

www.minidiscussion.com

 

If you record using DIGITAL link then sound quality will be close if not the same as CD quality.

Im not asking for anyone to persuade me into getting CD or CDR since I use my MD to remix and edit my own music so I just want to know if anyone knows a good MD HU. so far Im looking at either an Alpine or sony. any ideas?

 

yep I used to go there alot. im shure you been to www.minidisco.com right?

 

I have a sony minidisk head unit that also records...cost me 300 off the crutchfield website when they were cancelling it...it works good for me, i can record off the radio, or a cd changer (when i finally get one). The sound quality is fine, i wouldnt say as good as cd, only because minidisk recievers arent made for high quality like some cd ones, but i cant hear well enough to tell the difference. Either way i love my minidisks, b/c like mentioned u cannot scratch them and i am a total idiot and liked to do so when i had cds. I checked the crutchfeild online store and they no longer sell that one, but there are about 5 different manufacters...keep in mind that only sony has a reciever with minidisk long play - for 5 hrs on one disk...ver good

 

Pioneer.

 

while we are on the topic of minidisc... anybody know where I can pick up a sweet laser disc player?

 

mang from the smallest compact disc made to the largest compact disc...keke...go to chinatown...or anywhere that is asian populated...pretty sure their music store still carry them...

 

Not really true. Most mp3's are compressed at around 160 bits/sec (you can go higher though). ATRAC (the compression on minidiscs) is 292 bits/sec. Big difference there. And ATRAC is not limited to 15K Hz (ATRAC 1 was, but that was in 1993). ATRAC 4.5 and up from sony are 20K Hz (up from 18-19K).

Anyway, about the stereos, I used to have a JVC KD-MX3000 that I liked alot (MD/CD headunit in a single DIN space). I lost that with my totaled car though (I paid $450 for it and if i took it out the value of my car would have decresed by $585). Right now I've got a the Sony 6-disc changer hooked up to my factory Bose headunit and I'm really happy with it. It fit perfectly in the center console and I haven't had any problems with sound quality. I was a little leary of having to use FM modulation to hear it instead of an AUX input, but I'm really happy with how it sounds. Now I just need to replace the speakers and the headunit when I get the chance/money.
Also, check etronics.com for the stereo's your looking at. I got the MD changer there for $150 less than Crutchfield sells it for.

-zach

 

Well, if you are happy with FM sound quality, why not use a standard tape deck? I would be willing to bet I could make a tape that you wouldn't know was a tape in my system. Any compression of a cheap 16 bit signal, is too much. Have you heard the difference between standard CD and HDCD? How about DVD, DVD audio, or SACD? If you can't tell the difference use the cheap standby tape, otherwise use the tried and true CD/CDR. I mean, untill the prices of DVD-R come down a little. I don't think I have heard a CD skip in my car. If you have a skipping issue it's either the quality of the player or the quality of the install.

 

I like MD's because they are much more versatile. I can skip to any track I want just like on a CD, I can reorder the tracks if I want, I can title the tracks so that I can see the title of the song instead of just a track number..lots of convenience issues. Also, MD's have a much higher s/n ratio than any tape, and are smaller. And I'm not really happy with FM quality. I just can't tell the difference cause I still have all factory stereo equipment other than the changer--for what I have, I'm happy with the sound. I really miss the setup I had in my old car (my brother's driving it now). The factory Bose system has a pretty noticeable lack of bass once the car gets moving.

 

"The factory Bose system has a pretty noticeable lack of bass once the car gets moving." That's okay, since FM doesn't receive below 50Hz anyway!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is why most FM stations boost that frequency, so that the drop off below that point is less noticable.

 

"The factory Bose system has a pretty noticeable lack of bass once the car gets moving." That's okay, since FM doesn't receive below 50Hz anyway!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is why most FM stations boost that frequency, so that the drop off below that point is less noticable.

And, my ES tape deck, as well as my old Alpine I bought in '90 could skip to any track as well as repeat. But I never use that function. I don't listen to many CD's or tapes that have only one or two good songs. It's a waste of dough. I mean, If you only like one song, buy the single for $2.99!

 

dude...quitcher *****in...minidisk is nice for some of us and if u dont wanna answer the guys question then fine...i dont think if he asked about which one to buy if he wants to hear you yap about why not to buy it...ver good

 

So I guess you are among those who don't mind that minidisc is no better than the old standby tapes of the 80's? Is that what you are saying. Quit your yappin' you POS idiot! I answered because I thought he wanted some fact to go by. Minidisc was something that sony promoted for a few years, but no longer promotes. In Japan the Kenwood versions were much better. But here, where we live, they are all $h!t.

 

If you knew anything about the minidisc format, you would know they are much better than tapes. Why don't you try reading up about them at ww.minidic.org. The "versions" as you say of Minidisc it other countries are no different than what is available in the states, other than appearance. Sony and Sharp make the only real MD units. All other companies are clones of Sony's or Sharp's designs. Since the format is much more popular over there, that is where most of the new products are coming out, so lots of places sell imported Minidisc equipment. I didn't invest in Minidiscs to play them in my car. I invested in them as a way to take my music with me because CD's are too big (how easy is it to fit a CD player in the average pocket comfortably?) and tapes were too cumbersome. After owning a portable for a few years and making myself a nice collection of discs, I wanted a way to listen to my collection in the car.

Unfortunatly, it's not as easy to use head units from Japan because most of them only tune to Japanese FM frequencies. It's too bad, cause they have alot of nice MD decks.

 

I am sorry, but all the research concludes that there is no place for this item the current market. A good tape can have nearly 80 dB, or more signal to noise ratio. No, that is not as good as MD, CD, or any of the other digital formats. But it is 80 dB of non-compressed full bandwidth audio. Trust me, if you have never heard a well made tape then your ears aren't experienced enough to advise anyone to use the MD. The tape will get the harmonics and frequencies that the MD or MP3 delete, I mean compress.

 

Someone here summed up the versatility of the minidisc.To each his own i for one own a large number of cd's and after my inventory which is after every other party,my cd's are MIA.

So i got a minidisc partly to compile my cd's and to keep my friends sticky hands to themselves. Sound quality is better than tape no skipping, re-arrangement of tracks at will is possible.You can name tracks erase track's etc.

Now go ahead and show me a cd/tape that can beat that and before i forget you can record on it a theoratical 1million times before you notice degradation in sound quality.

 

thats exactly my point, I use my MD to record my music that I have remixed and edited. For my purposes, CDRs will only cost more time and money for my purposes.

 

Good point. I'd like someone to show me a tape or a cdr that lets you erase track 5, which is 3:54 secons long, and record a new 7:34 second track 5 in it's place, without writing over any songs or changing how the disc/tape plays. MD's are very versitile, and some people appreciate them for that. Just because they never caught on in the US doesn't mean the technology is no good. I think it was forcast that MD units would outsell CD units in Japan a couple years ago.

 

Well put. Nothing else to be said here.

 

Okay, now where are you getting the source material to make your MD's? Are you using another MD? So you have a dual deck for record purposes. Otherwise you could just buy a single CD or DVD recorder. Use a CDRW and you can re-record at least several times. Very few people ever find it necessary to record more often than that. And I can listen to my CDR's in my car, my neighbors car, my car poolers car, my house, you get the point. How much does the average home MD recorder cost? And the car player? And the portable for the office? As I said before, I can make a tape that you won't know is a tape. I have frequently had a tape playing and when the person listening asks to borrow it, I hit eject. When I hand them the tape the look is total amazement. They can't borrow it because they don't have anything to play the tape. So do you really think the MD "sounds" better? Can your ears tell? My ears can tell when audio is compressed. To me this is a greater flaw than any that the CDR/CDRW presents. I thought the thread starter wanted opinions on whether or not to get an MD player. I have made my opinion known and supplied facts to support it. you hvae only supplied a few technical features that most would never use. The rest of your information is rubbish.

 

Jmax since you call our opinions rubbish, the i simply must state that your FACT'S are worth the paper that i wipe my bunghole with.

Nothing you have written is of any value to MD user's.So what if it did not catch on infact, am happy that i can get such value at low price's.

So you can stick to your analog tape deck and after recording and erasing it a couple of time's-and replacing worn and damaged head's and capstan's- come back and present your opinion's if any.

Did i forget to mention that you get quick access to track's last time i checked tape decks did not do that.

 

"Did i forget to mention that you get quick access to track's last time i checked tape decks did not do that.
"

I see you haven't read the above posts or used a tape deck produced since the early 80's. If I make a tape, which I haven't in years now, it will sound better than MD because as I said there will be no compression of the original signal. I am sorry that you are afraid of the truth. For anything that I may want to record over several times I can use CDRW. I can buy 50, with 16 bit pure digital uncompressed for a very good price. I really don't use the RW's often so can't remember what the last price was. But CDR's are less than a dollar each.

Don't forget, digital is all 1's and 0's. Between 0 and 1 is an infinite number of details. Analog captures thoses details, digital leaves them out. Every time the digital envelope is pushed it gets closer to reality, but will still not be a true exact copy. DVD and SACD audio is much better than the CD of the 80's and 90's. But which one will catch on? We don't know yet. And I won't be first in line for either, because I can keep using mt CD's until there is a hint of what tomorrow will bring.

And remember, what are you using as your source material? CD, MD, tape, live broadcast, vynil? I doubt there are many who only use MD. And how much is a new MD recording? I don't even remember seeing anything, I mean really nothing offered on MD. But if I want a new album released today, or a classic of years gone I can get both on CD almost anywhere. And they can be played in the same decks that I use to record car - mixed versions of albums.

Not to mention that I can copy an 80 minute CD in 20 minutes.

 

\


I already have my own recorders and players at home, im just looking for a HU for the car. I guess im one of the very few that needs to record and re-record often sice Its rare for me to hear a song that Im 100% satisfied on how the artist composed it so what do I do? I edit it the way I want to hear it.

 

That is fo ryou to decide. I just thought you should be aware that there is considerable compression with the MD. And the incompatability issue. Do you have a multi-track recorder, or how exactly do you alter a recording. I am interested, because most are seeking to reproduce music the way the artist intended for it to be heard. But you are intentionally altering the sound. I can see altering the EQ settings to make the music more dynamic, for a weak car stereo. But there are so much easier methods to improve on that.

 

Allow me to burst your bubble please.Your compression argument's make no sense if you have been following MD evolution.In the early day's it was a problem but in 2000+ Sony has gotten it's act together.

Source material for me is CD and i record digitally FYI.Blah blah copy 80minute blat-blat i would like to compare a minidisc i made a year ago to one of your CD-R's that you made last week.First one to skip loses.

 

The compression on MD's works much differently than somethign like an mp3., which is why it has a high quality. And about equipment investment, for a couple years, my only recorder was my walkman, and it was still smaller than any cassette tape walkman you could (and probably can) buy. It recorded with the same technology as the home decks, and even has digital input. And isn't tape prone to stretching? A MD is optical, so the data is never touched by anything except light. And how many tape players play at exactly the same speed? Walkmans are especially bad at slowing down as the batteries wear out. So should you really be talking about listening to music as it was originally meant to be heard when you're most likely listening to it off-key yourself? And while tapes sample at 22kHz and have a freq. response of 30-15K Hz, MD's sample at 44.1kHz and have a freq. response of 20-20K Hz. And being that ATRAC is Adaptive (what the first A stands for) depending on how much audio there is at any given moment, it may not even be compressed (in the sense that all the original data will remain intact). MD's have no measureable THD or wow and flutter, and I doubt you can say the same about tapes.

<http://www.minidisc.org/near_cd.html> has some excerpts from a few old reviews of a unit which was based on Sony's ATRAC 3.5, which has since progressed to 4, 4.5 and now R in current models.

These are from a review by Electronics Austrailia from 1996:

"The [output of the D/A] chip is an audio signal with a spectacular dynamic range and a degree of fidelity which convinced me that any previous claims of lack of fidelity and commonality of quality between Mini Discs and CDs has now become a technically invalid issue. "

"We ran this A-B testing during two separate sessions encompassing a total period of three hours. After the testing was completed we were satisfied that we could neither identify, nor could we hear any difference between the digital original and the digitally recorded MiniDisc, or the manufacturer's own pre-recorded version of that same disc.

After carrying out numerous additional recordings of my own (on my own), I came to the conclusion that the JA3ES is currently the most convenient, and outstanding digital audio recorder (deck) that I have ever had the pleasure to use, or to audition."

 

good thing some1 can put up the #'s, thanx, makes me feel less dumb...seems some1 else shoulda listened to me earlier, hmmmmm....

 

Nismo, I don't know if you've been to either of these pages yet, but you might be able to find some useful reviews. I'm not sure what units you were looking into.

http://www.minidiscussion.com/rev.html

http://www.ecoustics.com/Home/Car_Au..._Unit_Reviews/

Generally speaking, I would probably go with Sony over Alpine because the Sony decks tend to have a **** for the volume, which I like alot better than buttons. On the MD realm, I don't know if Alpine's use Sony or Sharp ATRAC technology. Some people have a preference (I have both and haven't noticed a difference, but I haven't really tried to either..both sound good).

Edit: http://www.carreview.com/pscCar,Audi...S_2861crx.aspx has some reviews of some Alpine car MD units. The Sony MD ones there aren't reviewed at all. I think Sony and Alpine tend to both be pretty good though, so you might want to get detailed feature lists (Crutchfield is a good place to start) and just base your decision on that. I forget if i mentioned it or not, but www.etronics.com is a good place to check when you're ready to buy.

 

Dudes, I am still trying to figure out where you heard a car CD deck that skipped so often after say, 1990? I mean that most won't skip in a jeep, off road. If you are using CD as the source, you are not going to get better sound quality than that, right? So why bother with going to another medium, that requires another type of deck to record on? You forgot KISS, Keep It Simple Stupid. And you finally mentioned the sample rate. What's the compression ratio? And what's the maximum amount of data that can fit on an MD? It's very nice that they have improved MD over the original, but if I am going to use a compressed signal I may as well go MP3 and put several hours music on a single disc.

 

How much personal experience do you have using MD's? Have you ever spent any extended period of time listening to a MD that wasn't made from mp3's on a system that could do justice to the sound quality? Comapring MiniDisc to MP3 is not a very good analogy at all. The encoding used in MD's is much more advanced. When I listen to an MP3, I can tell it's an MP3..not too hard, and I don't like mp3's because of that. MD's sound much better. Instead of just compressing all the audio data, ATRAC works by emulating a human ear. It figures out which audio data an ear can't hear to begin with and removes that, and then it takes out all the audio data that is masked by other more prominent audio data. Alot of stuff can be removed that way, so the compression ratio is not as high as it may seem. What you end up with is something that is *much* better sounding than an mp3, and usually indistinguishable from the original source. And MD's aren't any more difficult to use than tapes, as far as simplicity. In fact, when you record, you can even skip the step of adjusting levels on the tape deck and go right to pressing record, since the MD recorder will do that automaticly (you can override this if you desire though). It will even automatically mark the tracks of the source. Copying a CD to a MD only requires the puch of 1 button.
Why put a CD on an MD? MD's are much more portable and forgiving. I can quickly grab a MD from my house and shove it in my pocket without thinking twice. I could leave an MD sitting in a parked car in 100° sunny weather and not worry about it melting. CD's (especially CD-R's) are much more sensitive to heat. I don't have to worry about my MD's getting scratches or finger prints on them, or the surface of the disc getting dusty. I can label a MD directly with any writing utensil I desire without worrying about damaging it. I can peel the label off and put a new one on if I ever want to without damaging the surface. Many people prefer MiniDiscs to other portable formats, expecially since CD's are pretty cumbersome to carry around on your person (I can fit my walkman and multiple discs in a single pocket comfotably).

 

like I said, I already have MD equipment at home and Ive been using them for years....all I want is a HU for the car. I also have no intention of getting into mp3s. thanks anyways...


zboy- thanks for all the info and links

 

This is hilarious! How many people have ever had a CD melt in a car????? Let me guess, you live in California and you have political asperations? It's so obvoius by the way you can't answer simple questions. Instead you have to create an illusion. And when new music comes out, how long is it before you can hear it in the car? Since you have to take it home, copy it, and then go back out. Or have your recorder with you in the car. Sorry, I forgot, you have Sony's car audio MP3 recorder, retail value around $650, that was on sale for $300. I don't think a normal person will be able to do that. Or will appreciate the extra steps. That's why normal people still listen to normal subs with 10% distortion.

 

I have the factory Bose CD player in my car. So when I buy a CD, I can listen to in it my car as soon as I want. If I like some (or all) of the songs, I record them onto a MD. I don't have a recorder of any sorts installed in my car. I don't even know of a Sony-branded mp3 recorder for a car. I do have Sony's 6-disc MD player, but because I have the factory Bose headunit, I can only listen to it through an FM modulator at the moment. In the car I had before the max, I had a single DIN sized CD/MD combo head unit by JVC with Pioneer speakers and an Alpine 10" DVC sub in a custom-built box powered by a RF single-channel amp. Sound still wasn't amazing, but it was a whole lot better than what I've got now, and was relatively cheap to put together. I never said that the MD changer running through the FM modulator sounded really good. I said it sounded better than I expected it to. With the quality of the Bose system that's 6-7 eyars old, a MD playing through the modulator doesn't sound any different than a CD playing through a CD player. It's not as good as my system at home, but it's alot better than the radio. When I update the system, a MD through the Aux. input won't sound any different than a CD. When I have more money, I plan on replacing all the speakers and the head unit in my car. CD-R's don't have to melt to stop working right. Because of the way they are recorded, high amounts of heat can change the data stored on the disc, which is where problems arise. And what questions didn't I answer? I can think of at least two you haven't.

 

Sorry, I haven't answered any questions of the specifics of MD because I don't keep current on items that are useless to me. So if you asked a question I didn't answer, that's why. It's also why I asked the exact compression ratio, and storage capacity of the MD. If you asked if I have ever had a CD degrade with age, the answer is no. I've also never had a problem with a tape melting in the car, but haven't stored tapes in the car for at least a half dozen years. I have had a 4 wheel drive truck, with truck suspension. No skips from the CD. The CD was installed when it was5-6 years old and continued to do so until I last disconnected it after another two plus years.

And like I said before, FM broadcast is limited to 50-15000 Hertz, so a tape deck can definitely exceed FM modulation. So there is a flaw somewhere if you think an MD sounds the same with the FM modulator, as the CD from the headunit.