i want kicks for my 4th gen dammit.. somebody help me

 

I've got my kickpanels done by myself, vey professional imaging. I'm almost ready for competition, advise: make your own, coz they don't sell stock kicks for out maximas.

If you need instructions, ask me.

 

 

hook me up with some instructions if you got em.. thanks

 

yeah - i would like some asistance as well

 

Ok, it will be long.
First cut the triangle shape baffles and put the midranges and the tweeters in there. (4" mid is the best, mid and tweet as close as possible, the are from the mid and tweet to the edges not more then 1cm)
Cover your corners with white construction paper-tape. Make an exact shape of the corner and then put the resin all over the corner-shape tape, put tape all over, in case you would need to move your baffle with speakers all around that area for finding the best imaging.
When the whole corner is wet, put peaces of fiberglass (peaces should be not bigger then your 2 fingers together). Put 3 layers of fiberglass and then resin all over. It should dry for at least of couple of days completely. (Add more hardener to the resin to make it dry faster).
When you have dry basses pu them in the corners, attach baffles with plumers tape to the corners. Then the hardest - try moving the baffles so you get the right angle - voice right in the middle, 1 inch over the dash, stage is wide. Was difficult for me, but my Rainbow give good imaging, so it's nice now! Do not forget to put towles and the back of your speakers.
Try to have the speakers angle look equal, look into one point. Right pair should look into your side window, 1 inch up your ear and 4 inches before your ear. The best I could get, try work the left out with the first one, NOT VISE VERSA!

Sorry, cannot make post bigger, ask me for later steps, but work on this one first - it's not that difficult as it seems!
Mike A.

 

Also you can go to the www.elitecaraudio.com and the install section and they speak about creating kickpanels, not in deatil like I can tell you, but also you find many important things to build the kicks!

Let me know if you didn't understand what I wrote you!
Mike

 

Thats a very out of date crude rule at this point for making what turn out to be large kicks. Not trying to start somthing but reality is that the "best" imaging, and sound comes from playing around, and experimentation, and depends partly on the speakers. Sometimes it works well, sometimes not. Just look at all the different kick panel shapes, and designs on the circuit right now. Plus alot of guys(including me) have found that runing the tweet in the a piller is far better than the kick, where as other still prefer them in the kick, or others that just call it a year, and rebuild that dash.

 

OK, I understand you feelings, but the guy asked how to BUILD the kicks, I've told him!!!!!!!!!! I'm trying to help him, like others helped me before.

Rick who got the 5th place in IASCA (pro class) was actually helping me with building them and let me tell you, if they listen to your pillars and if they listen to my imaging, guess who gets points?
Not my rule, but the rule of pro-judjes! And I've seen many of them!
Not trying to be harsh, but this thread is to how build a kicks!
Thanx for reply though
Mike

 

Well, this may start some $h!t, but IMHO, what may work for the judges may not always be the best for listening. I've heard some systems that win comps and they sound good, but then I've heard systems that would never compete and they sound better. I don't think that silk dome tweets should be down below. They need to be up. When I first installed my Dyns a few years ago, I put them down below and they sounded like crap. I now have them in the door panel, and they sound great. I have heard of a few Dyn owners that may put them in the kicks, but end up putting a second pair up in the pillers. The moral of this story is, to build kicks that sound good, you gotta play with them. I hope to still make some for sale in the next few months, but it will be a few months down the road.

 

WhiteMax, I'll tell you one thing:

Before you've bought the Dyns, you should have known by then that Dynaudio has a wide disburstment range, they are a perfect home system speakers, but they are not for sound stage - everybody knows that! Yes, it deffinately needs the tweeters up facing each other over the dash. You gotta play. I've played - I enjoy (not much hassle, I've got Rainbows, same level as dyns.

Another thing: If you don't like kickpnaels, why are you're here??
This thread is for people who need some info how to build them. If you don't like it, there are many other threads where you can state your oppinion. I'm here to help. THAT'S IT!
Thanx.

 

Dude, first you need to relax. I added to what you said, by just stating that it's an old method, that you can not deni. I also said it can be affective. Bottom line of the point is that there are alot of ways to build kicks, and large bulky ones most people don't want.

Second, YOUR NOT RICK. But you wanna talk about results, fine lets talk results. I WON the whole class at sbn15. Total score of close to 450. Imaging- perfact tonality 19/20 on everything. For the year I my common score was not much less than 430. Now for your boy Rick who's ***** you need to leave alone... Rick took 5th with a total score of 93 Bill A. of S.I. who won that class had a 122. Rather large difference.

Bottom line, I have no problem with Rick, but damn dude, stop using him as your crutch. I know your coming out this year, make a name for your self, don't use Rick to make a name.

 

One other thing...Tweeters in the A piller don't work????

Tell Steve Brown, Larry Chijzner(sp),Scott Buwalda, so forth and so on that.

 

Um, who said that I don't like Kicks? In fact, if you read my reply, I was stating the fact that I'm in the process of building kicks to sell to 4th gen owners so they have a new way to install their systems, and thats why I'm here. I have been here for a few years posting, and I have the right to reply to any all all posts I feel the need to. I started to post to this one to tell him I'm trying to build some for sale, and read some of your comments and felt it nessesary to reply to them. I'm glad to see you helping out with your replies. We need more of that, and I urge you to continue. But just remember, that what may work for you to win comps doesnt mean that will work for someone wanting to get the best out of their system, and will never compete.

 

WhiteMax, that's all right, no problem, sorry for being harsh, I didn't have any problems with you guys, I started talking how to build the kicks, AM I WRONG?

Well, for max'n'out - I see you don't understand that I'm here deffinatelly not to argue with you, but to help the first guy to build it, and YES I want to state my oppinion HOW to build THEM!!!!
I dont' care if someone uses pillars or kicks! This thread is "How to build the Kickpanels", not "Which is better:Kicks or other areas".

You have your oppinion, I've got mine, I've got perfect imaging. Again, at first this thread is about only kickpanels.

Other thing, Rick is a very good friend mine and I'm PROUD that he was the one who helped me the most, that's why I'm using his name, and if you use any of your experessions about him in future - talk to moderator, have a nice day!

 

Kicks are pretty good for getting everything you want out of your soundstage and imaging. There is a clear advantage is in their adjustability in any car. It all comes down to what you like. I would only use kicks and if I am having troubles, I'd add tweets in a-pillars to lift the soundstage. However it's all too subjective to argue about. The only thing is to look at some competition stats for recent years and see who used what and what place he/she took. I believe, kicks are the most universal way of doing it, they dominate (#'s) over any other designs and they clearly win more often. I do agree that they might not sound as good for daily driving if they are set up for competing. So for the argument of which is better, check the stats for last few years.

 

I know you're here to talk about how to build kicks. I started out by adding to that. Simple point of, it's an old technique. I never said you're wrong, just wanted to add so if he wants somthing different, he knows theres other methods. Relax. It's comments that end with a kiss, and talk to the moderater that YOU type that change the tone of the post.

I never said don't be proud that Rick has helped you, just that to stop using him as a crutch. Make your own name, make your own experience. I know a lot of people too, you don't see me name droping things like...O I know so and so, and they won 1st place. Stuff like that proves nothing. It's good to have sombody help a new competitor along.

As for which is better, I never said which is better just that there is another option when building kicks.

 

A-pillars usually stink. Like in the newest pathfinders, the tweets are basically in front of your face and pointing to your right (with some degree of angle toward the driver). So you're basically getting nada from the highs on the left. Also, the tweets are a good foot and a hlf to two feet away from the woofer. One of the big basic rules about components is have them close to each other. Not like you need the sound of a guitar going up and down your doors while a solo is going on. Very distracting.

Kick panels can be a great thing. They take time though. You're not going to get truly great imaging due to things like the shape of the interior and the offset in time since the right side of the car is a BIT farther away than the left. The only car I've ever seen that looks to have great imaging is the Alpine demo BMW (or Mercedes... forget what kind of car). They stripped the whole front dash down and rebuilt is with fibreglass to create an almost perfect symmetry. I personally think its not worth the 100s of hours they put in, but hey, whatever works.

 

Max'n out, that's OK, it's all taken care of and I'm glad. I was relaxed all the time, but was a little offended, because I came here to help with the building procedure and got hit all of a sudden by replies.

I was using Ricks name only in support of my oppinion, but that's truth - shouldn't. Well everyone has diffirent oppinions, but you have to understand, that I've respected yours too, but still defensive about mine. Just wasn't in the mood.
See you around.
Mike

 

It's kewl dude. I wasn't trying to say you where wrong with the design, it's just that most people don't want large kicks that they end up truley kicking the hell out of. The design you suggest is indeed a time tested method, just an old one that requires large space, thats all I was trying to say. That and in some instances, tweeters in the a piller work better than the kick, and that now thats pretty exeped.

You don't have to be defensive around me, just relize that on the comp sceen if you havn't already guys can be touchy, alot of money and big ego's are around, and alot of different Ideas are being tried.

You don't need to use names to support your opinoin I don't doubt it just offering a more "usable" option. The basics of what you say hold true. You just got seeminly jumping.

Lik: tweeters in the stock pathfinder and maxima in the piller are not really "aimed" the way they need to be. They also lack things that comp cars do. Things like...eqs, x over, time alginment,etc. And so forth. Really with technology, the way it is now adays you could do just about anything resnible and be able to correct for it, so really it comes down to the look you want, along with off course some playing around with postion a little and then time tuning. Just depends how much adjustment you want to make, generel rule is less is more.

 

Agreed max. By the time the 2003 lines come out, all those things will be do-able with a $300 HU. Alpine has some pretty cheap HUs this year that do a lot. Nice to see that.

 

Great tutorial on how to build kicks

There's the best thing you'll ever find for building kicks.

 

Jayson, it's cool with me. The problemo is gone.
Now I'm trying to understand, if you put the tweeters in the pillars, where do you put your midranges??? Midbasses would go to the doors. The midranges and tweeter should be as close as possible (again I'm talking about imaging), if not - are you using doors and pillars only?

Waiting for the answer

 

In my case, the tweeters are in the a-pillar and fire across the dash. (similar to Scott Buwalda, if you’ve seen his) Then the Mid is in the kick and fire in that same general direction. That’s all I use, one set of quart tweeters and one set of quart 6.5 mids.(sub too) Ive found in my case with the tweeters in the kick stage width was not great, just about one inch inside the pillars and stage height was about at the dash. By putting the tweets in the pillar stage height is eye level, and does not do the pyramid thing some do, now it's perfectly level, width went to about 1 inch outside of the pillars. Also I along with others have found that by using an active x over with a 12db slope (Zapco slx-4) instead of 24db allows for the mids and tweets to blend together.

The rule of putting mids and tweets close together still holds true, but many including some of the guys I listed earlier, don't follow it anymore. With tuning techniques a little x over playing and playing with potion, all can be over come and overall you can come out with better results in some situations. In my new install it will follow the same idea. Mids will run about 50-60hz up tweets about 3k up, and the sub will be in the dash, and that will take some playing but probley around 70hz and down.

With using a 12db slope, and overlapping frequency’s you can come out with seamless blending, along with adjusting the gains properly of course.

 

Sounds clear. Although I've seen people do that, but to addition to their kicks, but never seen just tweeters and mids in doors except some stock BMW's!
Well if you're saying, you've got points, then it DOES work.
I'll probably try this setup in my future car, but now I'm still in the world of kickpanels. And YES, sometimes sounstage is a little low, but pretty wide.

Mike

 

You mean running a mid and tweet in the kick in addition to an aux. tweet up in the a pillar high passed at 10k?

I'm not running a mid and tweet in the door. Though quit a few do. Dual mids and a tweet in between, all in the door. The older bmw's where real nice they came with deep large kicks with everything down there. The newer ones are still better than most cars, a mid down low and tweet up high, not optimum, yet better than most stock.

The best thing about the comp scene is that new things are always being tried. Rules are being broken. There are so many different things that can work. If there were one setup that worked perfect you could patent it and comp stuff would stop, because every car would be "perfect"...plus the after market would only do one thing, how much fun is that. So many different cars work. If it wasn’t for the comp scene, we won’t even have kick setups. The comp scene has given us a lot of stuff that works that’s really kewl, things like, horns in the dash that fire up, subs in the dash, floor setup, kicks, roof setups, etc… The weirdest setup I've ever seen is Masahiro Yoshioka, he competed a few years ago in pro six up and beat out guys like Rob Rice. Yet his car deified every normal rule. Tweeter in the door just above the door handle in a “rocket” like enclosure the fired toward the roof, mid in the kick that fired toward the opposite side, with another tweet down there that fires across, Horn under the dash as far to the door as you can get with another tweet in the dash that fired toward the window. Certainly a lot of speakers that firing in a lot of different directions, how many cars would follow that and make it work. I’ve also seen one with floor “pods” right on the tranny hump on either side, and they made that work. But it’s cars like that, that makes trying different things fun, and proves any setup can work if you work hard enough at it, and proves that rules can and will be broken and new ones can be created.