Just curious to see what everyone uses.

My first time on a roadcourse was in August, I have the Fastbrakes kit, and I was running Wilwood street pads. The first day (3, 30 min sessions) I was easy on the car, since I was learning how to drive The second day, since I knew what I was doing I ran MUCH harder. The wilwood pads were done after 20 mins.


I'm gonna try out some Hawk HP+'s soon

 

Which compound were you running?

for street driving, I run Wilwood Q, Hawk HPS, or Ferodo DS2500.
the Ferodo performs more like the Wilwood track compounds, but I'm not sure on longevity because I've only had them on for about 1200 (mostly highway) miles.
The Q series is a much lower friction- takes a lot more pedal pressure to stop.. but it helps get rid of the heavy front bias due to the porterfield R4S in the back not gripping nearly as well as the fronts.


For auto X, I use Wilwood D...

For road course, I use Wilwood E on hot days, D on cooler days.

So far, I haven't been able to kill the brakes using any of the track compounds.

 

I was using the pads that the kit came with, I think they were the Q's

 

Ive heard good things about the Hawk pads... but Ive had really good experiences with the Porterfield R4-S.

They work quite well for my style of driving (not going in too deep to turns) and the last set I had made it through like 6 HPDE track days and 12 autocross events and breaking in a set of rotors to boot.

BTW I only use them in front. Using metal matrix in the rear and they are lasting crazy long.

 

Where did you do the HPDE's?

My friend has an RSX with stock rotors, and used Porterfield R4S's at Summit Pt (Main track). He said they did not fade at all, however they only lasted for 1.5 sessions (1 20 minute, then half of the second 20 minute).

 

Wow I guess he really slams his brakes or his rotors are warped or scuffed or something- Or I take it REALLY easy on the brakes. I would definately say I do not go into turns deep or go to the point of ABS - after all, I want to keep it shiny side up and on the asphalt. But I still get good times. Actually now that I think about it, I tear the hell out of my tires so they are probably what Im using to slow down more than pads. But its fun to hear them! Esp. Potenza S-03s- they are super loud at the limit!

Ive done HPDE at Infineon, Thunderhill, Buttonwillow, and Laguna Seca. It is just too @#$@(*$ fun. Considering the bang, the buck (around 250) is sooo worth it. If anyone is going for the first time I got a few tips about setup if interested.

 

I think you take it really easy

Anyone ever used Porterfields' R4, or R4-E compounds?

 

I use Hawk HP+ coupled with my 13" rotors. On stock rotors they weren't quite enough, they would start to fade a bit late into a 20-30 minute session, but on the 13" they are plenty (for street tires) and I got no fade.

 

Notice any increase in rotor wear, over street pads?

 

I don't know I've never run any other pads at the track so I don't have anything to compare the wear to. I don't run them on the street I only use them on the track.

 

My Porterfield R-4S evaporated at Laguna today. Ironically after 1.5 sessions. But- I was really going for big braking action. Apparently theres a temperature where they just disintegrate on slotted rotors and I found it.

The good news- I got a replacement set and got a rockin personal best time 1:56.94 on street tires hehehehehaaa!

Im not going for the R-4S anymore unless I upgrade my calipers/rotors... they cant handle Lagunas hairpins after long straights..

 

I knew you took it easy

 

hehe... Laguna EATS brakes...(2 slow turns after very fast sections) but for the record it was my 2nd time at laguna on the same pair of R4-S...

I would venture that they do seem to wear REALLLY fast when they heat up big time. In other words, really hard braking can cheese grater them almost immediately on slotted rotors.

That being said, I admit I definately could brake harder and ideally would get a setup that would allow me to really stop fast, consistently, and affordably....

 

mitch33, how do you like the fastbrakes kit? how was the install? slightly off topic: i have only begun to think about road course. it seems like you guys believe slotted rotors eat brake pads. so what's your opinions on cross drilled vs slotted vs plain? 30 minute sessions sounds like total fun!! compared to the 2 min (max) drifting runs i do plus a really long wait between sessions. i live on the wrong coast for everything! argh...

 

Slotted rotors do eat pads faster than stock rotors. If you get serious about hot lapping you will start going through brakes at an alarming rate and you don't want to be using up slotted rotors every 2 trips to the track. I only use solid rotors now.

Porterfield R4-S is a street pad and works well for autoX duty but is not suited for road course use at all, as you found out. The R4 and R4-E is a race pad. The E stands for endurance, the S stands for street.

You can read about porterfield, hawk, and performance friction street and race pads at this site:
http://www.porterfield-brakes.com/index.html

 

I like the kit a lot. Chunger has a writeup on the install somewhere, when I find it I will post it.

I bought my kit used, and it came with drilled rotors. If I had the choice I would have left them blank. All drilling/slotting does is make the rotor surface uneven, which creates increased pad wear. It also weakens the rotor so its more prone to cracking/failure. Its a waste of $$ IMO. What I might waste my $$ on is cryo treating some new front rotors. I've heard mixed things about it, but http://www.300below.com will do my front rotors for around $50 (including shipping back to me)

A 20-30 session is fun, this spring/summer I'm doing 3 events, 2 with the PCA, 1 with NASA. PM me if you want more info...because I know you want to try it

 

Install writeup for the Fastbrakes kit...

http://home.earthlink.net/~msue2/Wilwood.htm

The hardest, most time consuming part was dremeling the spindle

 

haha, why do the pros use slotted rotors? how do those endurance or even touring car guys go without changing rotors mid race? i know a few years ago one team bragged about how they only made one or two rotor changes over the 24hr period. well i guess you guys are running hard the entire day and with considerably smaller brakes.

 

I suspect their rotors are made to a little higher standard than the $24 Autozone rotors I use... In fact many of those cars may not be using metal (cast iron or steel alloy) rotors at all, they may be using ceramic or carbon-ceramic rotors, which cost thousands and perhaps even tens of thousands of dollars a piece.

 

I've had a set of 2-piece 13" Coleman rotors on my car for a couple years now.. been through about 5 sets or brake pads on them and they're just barely beginning to show wear.
$135 a rotor isn't bad when they last this long with daily driving, auto X, and roadcourse duty...
(My first brake kit was using the same calipers and pads on cryo treated OEM Skyline rotors... they cracked horribly after about 6 months. )

for my record on pads, I've typed it up somewhere on this forum... read over it for my impressions of which ones I've used and how long.

BTW, I can now add Ferodo DS2500 to them. they dust pretty bad, but they're great for the street and light road course use. I have several friends with 350Z track models and they use the 2500 on the track as well with no problems.
I still use Wilwood E compound at the track and currently running the DS2500 on the street. I'll probably switch back to Wilwoos Q for the street after these because they don't dust at all. performance isn't nearly as good, but the Q series lasts about 5x longer and doesn't have any fade for street use- if I CAN get them to fade on the street, it would only be because I've been doing some highly illegal driving!

 

somebody hook me up with stoptech or rotoras!

 

I installed some Hawk HP+ in my front wilwoods, and some Porterfield R4-s in my stock rear calipers, along with new rear rotors. I bedded them in last night, and the HP+ grip like a mother.

I'm going to Lime Rock Park in CT, in a few days, and then I'll post my impressions of the new pads

 

You should really watch rotor wear with the HP+... I ran a set of HP+ or blacks (I forget now), and they ruined a set of skyline rotors in about 3 days. wore off 30% of the pad material (about 1/4") and more than that off the rotor. the rotors were 1.25" thick when I put the pads on. 3 days later, they were 0.94" thick and gouged to hell. ruined my 3-piece Enkei wheels as well, because all the iron worn off the rotors was deposited onto my wheels. now they're covered in an iron plating, which rusts like mad every time the car gets in the rain. there goes a $2000 set of wheels.

I'll never touch Hwek pads again after that.


back to the guys having problems with Porterfields.... pad wear is in direct relation to pad temps. the R4S is a STREET pad that's not made to get over a few hundred degrees.. when they get above normal driving temps, they really start to wear. they may still work, but they're wearing terribly. (they lasted me about 5 weeks on the street with my Wilwood calipers)

the R4 and R4E are race compounds that are designed for track duty and high heat. the R4S may only last a couple of sessions on the track, where the R4 will last several events at 4-5 sessions per day.

 

This correlates with what I saw. The R4S lasted pretty well when not braking very deep and at tracks that didnt have hairpins after long straightaways.

When I went to drilled/slotted rotors though, and braked hard, the R4S disappeared quick. Really quick, like a matter of 10 minutes.

Also, thanks for the warning about Hawk HP pads.
Finally, and yes, its lazy for not researching the answer to this question on the web... but do you know the difference between R4 and R4E, and whether or not either of them would be streetable? Thanks

 

Streetable, sure.. if it never gets too cold there and you don't mind standing on the brake for the first few stops...

What I'd recommend it just to buy two sets of pads. keep the R4S for the street, then put the R4 or R4E on for the track. you can usually just swap them before you drive to the track and they'll be bedded in and ready to race by the time you get there.
then just swap 'em back before you leave the track and you're good to go. takes 15 minutes.

 

I used a set of HP+ at Limerock, CT this past week, and I had no problems with rotor or pad wear at all. Pads barely wore down after 4, 20 minute sessions, and my rotors showed no signs of excessive wear. I think you were using the Hawk Black compound, which I've heard is hard on rotors. My friend who owns an RSX-S with a 12.2 Wilwood BBK (Forged Dynalite calipers) ran Hawk Blue's at the same event, and his rotors got chewed up pretty bad...

The HP+ dust noticably more than the HPS I run on the street. This is what my front wheels looked like after 4, 20 minute sessions and a 3 hr drive home...

 

There's no way an HP+ would do that unless they forgot to make the rotor out of iron and made it out of lead instead. They had to be Blacks, which are known to chew rotors to bits. HP+ is just a high performance street pad, I've been running HP+ for years on both stock rotors and 13" rotors and I have never head a problem with rotor wear. The pads will wear about 1/3 of the way in one day (six 20 minute sessions) for me.

Sorry to hear about your wheels man. You could probably get them sandblasted and powdercoated (or whatever finish you want) and it would be a helluva lot cheaper than replacing them. Good luck.

 

Yeah, they were blacks.. I remember now.
I ran the HPS and wasn't too happy with them for pad fade on the highway, so I told them to give me the next step up from those.. They gave me blacks.. for STREET use!! Aargh! I shoulda known.

Yeah, those wheels are pretty much toast.. they'll be fine for track use, but never be pretty enough to be used on the street again.
Before:
http://www.mattblehm.com/pics/car/brakes/20.jpg

After:
http://mattblehm.com/stuff_for_sale/wheels/IM000620.JPG
http://mattblehm.com/stuff_for_sale/wheels/IM000621.JPG

 

My experience with the DS2500's (on my 97 M3, running comp-r's) is that they are REALLY noisy on the street (awful squealing) and track performance was decent as long as you weren't pushing it too hard. Pad life seemed pretty good tho.

Another problem with the DS2500's is that they might leave these melted, gooey black spots on your rotors that usually wears off after some street driving. I have had that problem myself and heard of others having the same issue. I would say the DS2500 is too noisy for street, and not good enough for track, LOL! might make a good auto-x pad tho as the cold bite was decent.

Anyhow, after upgrading my front rotors to 332mm Stoptech's, I swap in some Cobalt SpecVR pads and VERY pleased with the combo! I'm also running comp-r's with a 3,100lbs. vehicle. The braking was absolutely amazing! Just too easy and zero fade. Not enough challenge :-)



I also hear good things about the Pagid 14's (blacks?) but no first-hand experience.

 

Hmmm, I've been using the DS2500 on the street for a while now, and only rarely will they squeak.. and only when I'm on very light braking. when they start squeaking, I just push the pedal a little harder and it goes away.

I'll probably go back to the Wilwood Q series next time, but I may try the Cobalt stuff. Andie is a friend of a friend, so I can get a decent price on them to try some out.

 

After researching, I decided to try out the wilwood E compound. I just installed them to bed them in and they seem very solid. They will see some very high temps early next week, courtesy of Watkins Glen in NY...further review coming soon

 

You'll be happy with them... I used them at Hallett on a 105+ degree day, and that track is known for chewing up brakes BAD... first corner I enter at 120 or so and have to slow to 60 for the corner. second corner is 95mph to 20mph for a tight hairpin.

they held up to that with only a hint of fade at the back of the course. by the time I got through the twisty part of the track and back onto the open part where I'd need brakes, they had already cooled enough for another lap.

pics of the brakes when I got home at the bottom of this directory: http://mattblehm.com/pics/car/hallett/

note the bluing on the rotors on the parts that aren't swept by the pads..

 

Matt, those pads are so tiny! when are you getting the FSL's?

 

They may be small, but they do the job.

I'll be getting them probably some time this summer.. just one more thing I don't have time (or money) to mess with right now. they stop the car plenty well as-is.

 

Oh BTW, watkins glen- Awesome track!!!! Wish I could make it Watch out for that blind left after the straight! I think its right before the boat (hah like I know from Nascar Thunder lol)

 

Ok, after using the wilwood E compound for a total of 8, 30 minute sessions in two days, I can say that I am very happy with them. I could not get them to fade, and they wore less than 1/3. Their cold stopping on the street isnt all too bad either, just slightly worse than the HP+ I had used for a previous event.

Watkins Glen is a truly awesome track. The track is so smooth and easy on tires. I hit 105 on the front straight, and 120 on the back straight. After turn 1 you are full on the gas all the way until the end of the back straight, so fast through long sweeping curves, its just incredible. I'm prob going back at the end of July for another event, can't wait.

 

Told ya they were nice!

 

Mitch,

Did you get any times?

Alan

 

No, I didnt have a buddy to time me

did you?

 

How do you get started? I mean to join a race a watkins glen?