Chassis foam questions, need help ASAP
04-19-2006, 02:23 PM
#1
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Chassis foam questions, need help ASAP
I was wondering if it's safe to chassis foam on a car that has no suspension and no engine installed? It currently has the back suspension on, but the engine and entire front suspension are out. The only piece installed is the large suspension brace, I put that back in just to be safe. Its being held up by the jacks on the stock locations and is about as level as I can get it. Im foaming the beams inside the engine bay FYI and the big one that runs down underneath the car (Inside the engine beam there are two comparments one in the front and the other compartment consists of all that). Also its the two part mix that you pour in and is not to expansive, not the spray foam stuff.
04-19-2006, 08:24 PM
#2
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24 views so far and no one has an opinion on this ???
I was talking to Kevlo and he is thinking that having the car on the ground with wheels is the best way, same idea as SFCs. Im inclined to agree at this point. Unless one of the suspension guros on here says otherwise im doing it that way.
If I can get my control arms and sway bar back from the powder coater tomorrow, im going to set it up with the full suspension and wheels on the ground. It won't have an engine in it but I will throw my spare set of boat anchor MOMOs inside the car to make up the weight of the enigne or two engines...
Maybe I will take some pics of this monster of a project, it may get some interest going.
I was talking to Kevlo and he is thinking that having the car on the ground with wheels is the best way, same idea as SFCs. Im inclined to agree at this point. Unless one of the suspension guros on here says otherwise im doing it that way.
If I can get my control arms and sway bar back from the powder coater tomorrow, im going to set it up with the full suspension and wheels on the ground. It won't have an engine in it but I will throw my spare set of boat anchor MOMOs inside the car to make up the weight of the enigne or two engines...
Maybe I will take some pics of this monster of a project, it may get some interest going.
04-20-2006, 11:07 AM
#5
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Originally Posted by BEJAY1
I'd think you want it weight loaded and grounded when filling. Think of when you jack up cars with a floor jack and it flexes. You'd never fill it that way right?
When Speed vision had that Skyline they where foaming they had it completly stripped and the frame sitting on jack stands. So that's why I was thinking it was gonna be ok.
05-04-2006, 07:05 PM
#7
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Ok got the foaming done tonight !!
The first stage is done, It's the front engine braces and the hollow area that leads down to the front part of the SFCs.
I drilled 3/4" holes in the rails and seperatly spaced them out. Then every bolt hole that was in the fill area I placed a spare bolt in. Also every other hole I taped over with duct tape and made a small hole in the tape so the foam could have a space to ooze out of.
With the car on the ground I added a huge plastic bin and strapped it to the center cross member. Filling it with tons of metal scrap to sim the weight of the engine and transmission.
You gotta move quick when you mix this stuff, 30 seconds of stirring and then pour it in quickly with a funnel. Any excess foam will expand into empty areas and when it reaches the maximum the foam will ooze out of the fill holes and dry. Also use plastic funnels and mix buckets, when the stuff dries you can flex the plastic and remove any excess foam. Most importantly MEASURE the amount you are going to use and mix it 50/50 for proper foam action. If you screw with the mix it messes up the reaction and can make a gummy mess that takes forever to dry.
So now I get to sand down the primer and paint over the engine bay to hide the foam.
This weekend begins the assembly process and hopefully I will be done for Maxus.
The first stage is done, It's the front engine braces and the hollow area that leads down to the front part of the SFCs.
I drilled 3/4" holes in the rails and seperatly spaced them out. Then every bolt hole that was in the fill area I placed a spare bolt in. Also every other hole I taped over with duct tape and made a small hole in the tape so the foam could have a space to ooze out of.
With the car on the ground I added a huge plastic bin and strapped it to the center cross member. Filling it with tons of metal scrap to sim the weight of the engine and transmission.
You gotta move quick when you mix this stuff, 30 seconds of stirring and then pour it in quickly with a funnel. Any excess foam will expand into empty areas and when it reaches the maximum the foam will ooze out of the fill holes and dry. Also use plastic funnels and mix buckets, when the stuff dries you can flex the plastic and remove any excess foam. Most importantly MEASURE the amount you are going to use and mix it 50/50 for proper foam action. If you screw with the mix it messes up the reaction and can make a gummy mess that takes forever to dry.
So now I get to sand down the primer and paint over the engine bay to hide the foam.
This weekend begins the assembly process and hopefully I will be done for Maxus.
03-25-2008, 09:03 PM
#9
Bumping this old thread to ask a question. 98SEBlackMax, since you did the front engine braces/rails, I was wondering how easy it would be to foam these with the engine still in the car. From the FSM it looks as though you can access the open (?) ends of these once you remove the bumper and other front end components. I'm thinking I could just spray foam in from the front and get it to spread as far back as possible.
I'm going to be using the Handi Foam kits which include a nozzle so there is no messy mixing and pouring. I am mainly concerned with the cabin but if I could stiffen up the front end a bit too that would be awesome.
I'm going to be using the Handi Foam kits which include a nozzle so there is no messy mixing and pouring. I am mainly concerned with the cabin but if I could stiffen up the front end a bit too that would be awesome.
03-25-2008, 10:57 PM
#10
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Bumping this old thread to ask a question. 98SEBlackMax, since you did the front engine braces/rails, I was wondering how easy it would be to foam these with the engine still in the car. From the FSM it looks as though you can access the open (?) ends of these once you remove the bumper and other front end components. I'm thinking I could just spray foam in from the front and get it to spread as far back as possible.
I'm going to be using the Handi Foam kits which include a nozzle so there is no messy mixing and pouring. I am mainly concerned with the cabin but if I could stiffen up the front end a bit too that would be awesome.
I'm going to be using the Handi Foam kits which include a nozzle so there is no messy mixing and pouring. I am mainly concerned with the cabin but if I could stiffen up the front end a bit too that would be awesome.
Now foaming the first section that runs from the bumper to the side mounts won't help with much rigidity because they are forward of the shock towers. The best area to re-inforce the chassis is from the front shock towers all the way to rear shock towers. Areas outside of that zone you want to weight reduce to decrease the polar inertia of the chassis when cornering. Though as a benefit foaming the front chamber did cut down on some engine vibration on my car. This helps if you have stiffened these side mounts at all.
Also if your interested in making the car have less vibration at idle another benefit I found was foaming the center crossmember with 8 pound density foam. This cut down the engine vibration from the PR motor mounts to the point most passengers did not think I had aftermarket engine mounts. This summer im going to try some different mounts and a non foamed OEM crossmember for a back to back comparison and post the results.
Anyways the second chamber would be better to fill but this runs the length of the car. If you ever plan on seam welding or adding SFCs I would leave this area alone. I had thought it was a small chamber but the foam ran and leaked from holes alot further down than I thought it would.
03-26-2008, 01:13 PM
#11
Bumping this old thread to ask a question. 98SEBlackMax, since you did the front engine braces/rails, I was wondering how easy it would be to foam these with the engine still in the car. From the FSM it looks as though you can access the open (?) ends of these once you remove the bumper and other front end components. I'm thinking I could just spray foam in from the front and get it to spread as far back as possible.
I'm going to be using the Handi Foam kits which include a nozzle so there is no messy mixing and pouring. I am mainly concerned with the cabin but if I could stiffen up the front end a bit too that would be awesome.
I'm going to be using the Handi Foam kits which include a nozzle so there is no messy mixing and pouring. I am mainly concerned with the cabin but if I could stiffen up the front end a bit too that would be awesome.
03-26-2008, 06:12 PM
#12
Thanks 98SE! I do have polyurethane engine mounts (front and rear) but my side mounts are stock. Vibration at idle isn't bad at all, in fact I think the poly mounts are softening a bit with time. Are there no factory holes whatsoever in the two main rails? If need be I can drill but I assumed there would be holes. Maybe the easiest way would be to access the rails from the bottom rather than going in from the top at the back of the engine bay. I'll have to take a closer look at my car.
In another thread you mentioned that the heat from your y-pipe was causing the foam in the engine crossmember to burn...I doubt it's worth foaming that area for structural reasons since it's separate from the rest of the chassis.
JSutter, the Handi Foam is a two-part spray foam kit. It is also the same kit that Sport Compact Car used in their 300ZX. Type "chassis foam" into Google and the first hit should be a FreshAlloy.com thread where a guy with a 240SX used these kits with great results. The kit is only 2 lb density but the more you spray in to a given area the denser it will be. Also, the foam expands less (and thus dries to greater density) the lower the temperature and I will probably be doing this when the temp is 50 degrees (recommended is 70-80).
In another thread you mentioned that the heat from your y-pipe was causing the foam in the engine crossmember to burn...I doubt it's worth foaming that area for structural reasons since it's separate from the rest of the chassis.
JSutter, the Handi Foam is a two-part spray foam kit. It is also the same kit that Sport Compact Car used in their 300ZX. Type "chassis foam" into Google and the first hit should be a FreshAlloy.com thread where a guy with a 240SX used these kits with great results. The kit is only 2 lb density but the more you spray in to a given area the denser it will be. Also, the foam expands less (and thus dries to greater density) the lower the temperature and I will probably be doing this when the temp is 50 degrees (recommended is 70-80).
03-26-2008, 10:08 PM
#13
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Thanks 98SE! I do have polyurethane engine mounts (front and rear) but my side mounts are stock. Vibration at idle isn't bad at all, in fact I think the poly mounts are softening a bit with time. Are there no factory holes whatsoever in the two main rails? If need be I can drill but I assumed there would be holes. Maybe the easiest way would be to access the rails from the bottom rather than going in from the top at the back of the engine bay. I'll have to take a closer look at my car.
In another thread you mentioned that the heat from your y-pipe was causing the foam in the engine crossmember to burn...I doubt it's worth foaming that area for structural reasons since it's separate from the rest of the chassis.
JSutter, the Handi Foam is a two-part spray foam kit. It is also the same kit that Sport Compact Car used in their 300ZX. Type "chassis foam" into Google and the first hit should be a FreshAlloy.com thread where a guy with a 240SX used these kits with great results. The kit is only 2 lb density but the more you spray in to a given area the denser it will be. Also, the foam expands less (and thus dries to greater density) the lower the temperature and I will probably be doing this when the temp is 50 degrees (recommended is 70-80).
In another thread you mentioned that the heat from your y-pipe was causing the foam in the engine crossmember to burn...I doubt it's worth foaming that area for structural reasons since it's separate from the rest of the chassis.
JSutter, the Handi Foam is a two-part spray foam kit. It is also the same kit that Sport Compact Car used in their 300ZX. Type "chassis foam" into Google and the first hit should be a FreshAlloy.com thread where a guy with a 240SX used these kits with great results. The kit is only 2 lb density but the more you spray in to a given area the denser it will be. Also, the foam expands less (and thus dries to greater density) the lower the temperature and I will probably be doing this when the temp is 50 degrees (recommended is 70-80).
I knew back in '06 that foaming the center crossmember would not help rigidty, I was looking for a way to reduce vibration from aftermarket motor mounts. The burning of the foam in the center crossmember went away after a month or so of driving. It shrinks from the heat and eventially stops smoking. I've run a wrapped Warpspeed Y pipe and then unwrapped Cattman headers with this foamed crossmember with no smoke. Again I need to do some more testing before I say anything more about it.
Yeah whenever I decide to not do anymore welding on my car im going to use this same handifoam for the A,B, and C pillars. Also going to use the rest of the 4 pound density stuff to pour in the center beams and up to the rear shock towers.
04-27-2008, 10:14 PM
#15
A week ago I finally foamed my chassis! I hope to post a new thread soon, but here's a summary.
I had a mishap with the first Handi Foam kit because I hadn't read the instructions on the canister that said you have to wait no more than 20 seconds between each spray. If you wait longer, the foam in the nozzle hardens and clogs it. So I was taking my time and after a few minutes the nozzle clogged and one of the tubes popped off. This resulted in nasty compound spraying everywhere, but luckily not on me or the car. The foam itself is really tidy, it hardens quickly and then you can snap or sand it off. But the two parts individually are nasty liquids that don't really evaporate. I wore old clothes and shoes (got only a little foam on them), safety glasses, and disposable latex gloves.
Once I figured out how to apply properly, it was a breeze. I identified the holes I wanted to use with blue masking tape and went from hole to hole. I was so focused on getting the holes filled quickly that I forgot to tape up each hole to prevent foam expanding out of it. (The guy with the S14 who posted on FreshAlloy taped all his holes after foaming to keep all the foam inside and thus increase the density slightly.) I don't think it will make much difference, though. Anyway, I used all three kits I'd bought (total was $133 including shipping) and foamed everything I could think of. This included the rocker panels under the doors, the A, B, and C pillars, the seat cross members, and the frame rails under the car.
I put the driver seat back in to take it for a test ride. Unfortunately, I couldn't really tell how much stiffer or quieter the car was. I had no seatbelt or turn signals and didn't want to push the car in town (or drive out of town) so the best I could do was drive over a couple of bad railroad crossings. The car feels more solid but there are some major noise makers (seatbelts rattling on the bare floorpan, rear deck metal rattling undampened) so I can't say anything yet.
It's going to be a couple of weeks before everything is back together because I have two more projects (sound dampening and installation of my new audio system).
Here are some photos. Most of these photos were taken as I was disassembling the interior, but the last few show the foam. I'll take more photos and post a thread at some point.
I had a mishap with the first Handi Foam kit because I hadn't read the instructions on the canister that said you have to wait no more than 20 seconds between each spray. If you wait longer, the foam in the nozzle hardens and clogs it. So I was taking my time and after a few minutes the nozzle clogged and one of the tubes popped off. This resulted in nasty compound spraying everywhere, but luckily not on me or the car. The foam itself is really tidy, it hardens quickly and then you can snap or sand it off. But the two parts individually are nasty liquids that don't really evaporate. I wore old clothes and shoes (got only a little foam on them), safety glasses, and disposable latex gloves.
Once I figured out how to apply properly, it was a breeze. I identified the holes I wanted to use with blue masking tape and went from hole to hole. I was so focused on getting the holes filled quickly that I forgot to tape up each hole to prevent foam expanding out of it. (The guy with the S14 who posted on FreshAlloy taped all his holes after foaming to keep all the foam inside and thus increase the density slightly.) I don't think it will make much difference, though. Anyway, I used all three kits I'd bought (total was $133 including shipping) and foamed everything I could think of. This included the rocker panels under the doors, the A, B, and C pillars, the seat cross members, and the frame rails under the car.
I put the driver seat back in to take it for a test ride. Unfortunately, I couldn't really tell how much stiffer or quieter the car was. I had no seatbelt or turn signals and didn't want to push the car in town (or drive out of town) so the best I could do was drive over a couple of bad railroad crossings. The car feels more solid but there are some major noise makers (seatbelts rattling on the bare floorpan, rear deck metal rattling undampened) so I can't say anything yet.
It's going to be a couple of weeks before everything is back together because I have two more projects (sound dampening and installation of my new audio system).
Here are some photos. Most of these photos were taken as I was disassembling the interior, but the last few show the foam. I'll take more photos and post a thread at some point.
04-28-2008, 03:37 PM
#17
A week ago I finally foamed my chassis! I hope to post a new thread soon, but here's a summary.
I had a mishap with the first Handi Foam kit because I hadn't read the instructions on the canister that said you have to wait no more than 20 seconds between each spray. If you wait longer, the foam in the nozzle hardens and clogs it. So I was taking my time and after a few minutes the nozzle clogged and one of the tubes popped off. This resulted in nasty compound spraying everywhere, but luckily not on me or the car. The foam itself is really tidy, it hardens quickly and then you can snap or sand it off. But the two parts individually are nasty liquids that don't really evaporate. I wore old clothes and shoes (got only a little foam on them), safety glasses, and disposable latex gloves.
Once I figured out how to apply properly, it was a breeze. I identified the holes I wanted to use with blue masking tape and went from hole to hole. I was so focused on getting the holes filled quickly that I forgot to tape up each hole to prevent foam expanding out of it. (The guy with the S14 who posted on FreshAlloy taped all his holes after foaming to keep all the foam inside and thus increase the density slightly.) I don't think it will make much difference, though. Anyway, I used all three kits I'd bought (total was $133 including shipping) and foamed everything I could think of. This included the rocker panels under the doors, the A, B, and C pillars, the seat cross members, and the frame rails under the car.
I put the driver seat back in to take it for a test ride. Unfortunately, I couldn't really tell how much stiffer or quieter the car was. I had no seatbelt or turn signals and didn't want to push the car in town (or drive out of town) so the best I could do was drive over a couple of bad railroad crossings. The car feels more solid but there are some major noise makers (seatbelts rattling on the bare floorpan, rear deck metal rattling undampened) so I can't say anything yet.
It's going to be a couple of weeks before everything is back together because I have two more projects (sound dampening and installation of my new audio system).
Here are some photos. Most of these photos were taken as I was disassembling the interior, but the last few show the foam. I'll take more photos and post a thread at some point.
I had a mishap with the first Handi Foam kit because I hadn't read the instructions on the canister that said you have to wait no more than 20 seconds between each spray. If you wait longer, the foam in the nozzle hardens and clogs it. So I was taking my time and after a few minutes the nozzle clogged and one of the tubes popped off. This resulted in nasty compound spraying everywhere, but luckily not on me or the car. The foam itself is really tidy, it hardens quickly and then you can snap or sand it off. But the two parts individually are nasty liquids that don't really evaporate. I wore old clothes and shoes (got only a little foam on them), safety glasses, and disposable latex gloves.
Once I figured out how to apply properly, it was a breeze. I identified the holes I wanted to use with blue masking tape and went from hole to hole. I was so focused on getting the holes filled quickly that I forgot to tape up each hole to prevent foam expanding out of it. (The guy with the S14 who posted on FreshAlloy taped all his holes after foaming to keep all the foam inside and thus increase the density slightly.) I don't think it will make much difference, though. Anyway, I used all three kits I'd bought (total was $133 including shipping) and foamed everything I could think of. This included the rocker panels under the doors, the A, B, and C pillars, the seat cross members, and the frame rails under the car.
I put the driver seat back in to take it for a test ride. Unfortunately, I couldn't really tell how much stiffer or quieter the car was. I had no seatbelt or turn signals and didn't want to push the car in town (or drive out of town) so the best I could do was drive over a couple of bad railroad crossings. The car feels more solid but there are some major noise makers (seatbelts rattling on the bare floorpan, rear deck metal rattling undampened) so I can't say anything yet.
It's going to be a couple of weeks before everything is back together because I have two more projects (sound dampening and installation of my new audio system).
Here are some photos. Most of these photos were taken as I was disassembling the interior, but the last few show the foam. I'll take more photos and post a thread at some point.
What density is the foam you used? The 2 part pouring stuff is a royal pita to work with, and a sprayer would be nice, but the advantage of the pour stuff is that you can choose the density, and there is a BIG difference between 2 and 16lbs/ft3
Btw this is a closed cell foam.. its actually mainly used in marine applications for reduced vibrations and more flotation, so it wont absorb water.
04-28-2008, 05:52 PM
#18
It's the 2lbs/ft3 stuff. I wish Handi Foam made a denser spray foam but they don't seem to.
After my experience with the spray stuff I really would not suggest that anyone buy the denser foams that you have to mix and pour! It's going to be so much messier and hard to pour it in enough holes before it starts to expand. Not to mention you have to mix it up yourself in exactly the right ratio. Sciff, IIRC you tried it and it was a mess, right?
If you are careful with overfilling each cavity and taping off the holes immediately, you could probably double the density of the Handi Foam. Also, if you do it at a lower temperature (say 55-60 degrees) it shouldn't expand as much, resulting in a denser foam.
After my experience with the spray stuff I really would not suggest that anyone buy the denser foams that you have to mix and pour! It's going to be so much messier and hard to pour it in enough holes before it starts to expand. Not to mention you have to mix it up yourself in exactly the right ratio. Sciff, IIRC you tried it and it was a mess, right?
If you are careful with overfilling each cavity and taping off the holes immediately, you could probably double the density of the Handi Foam. Also, if you do it at a lower temperature (say 55-60 degrees) it shouldn't expand as much, resulting in a denser foam.
04-28-2008, 08:39 PM
#19
It's the 2lbs/ft3 stuff. I wish Handi Foam made a denser spray foam but they don't seem to.
After my experience with the spray stuff I really would not suggest that anyone buy the denser foams that you have to mix and pour! It's going to be so much messier and hard to pour it in enough holes before it starts to expand. Not to mention you have to mix it up yourself in exactly the right ratio. Sciff, IIRC you tried it and it was a mess, right?
If you are careful with overfilling each cavity and taping off the holes immediately, you could probably double the density of the Handi Foam. Also, if you do it at a lower temperature (say 55-60 degrees) it shouldn't expand as much, resulting in a denser foam.
After my experience with the spray stuff I really would not suggest that anyone buy the denser foams that you have to mix and pour! It's going to be so much messier and hard to pour it in enough holes before it starts to expand. Not to mention you have to mix it up yourself in exactly the right ratio. Sciff, IIRC you tried it and it was a mess, right?
If you are careful with overfilling each cavity and taping off the holes immediately, you could probably double the density of the Handi Foam. Also, if you do it at a lower temperature (say 55-60 degrees) it shouldn't expand as much, resulting in a denser foam.
Its the fact that you have to mix and pour the stuff in less than 45 seconds. That makes doing big batches rather hard.
04-29-2008, 06:18 AM
#20
It's the 2lbs/ft3 stuff. I wish Handi Foam made a denser spray foam but they don't seem to.
After my experience with the spray stuff I really would not suggest that anyone buy the denser foams that you have to mix and pour! It's going to be so much messier and hard to pour it in enough holes before it starts to expand. Not to mention you have to mix it up yourself in exactly the right ratio. Sciff, IIRC you tried it and it was a mess, right?
If you are careful with overfilling each cavity and taping off the holes immediately, you could probably double the density of the Handi Foam. Also, if you do it at a lower temperature (say 55-60 degrees) it shouldn't expand as much, resulting in a denser foam.
After my experience with the spray stuff I really would not suggest that anyone buy the denser foams that you have to mix and pour! It's going to be so much messier and hard to pour it in enough holes before it starts to expand. Not to mention you have to mix it up yourself in exactly the right ratio. Sciff, IIRC you tried it and it was a mess, right?
If you are careful with overfilling each cavity and taping off the holes immediately, you could probably double the density of the Handi Foam. Also, if you do it at a lower temperature (say 55-60 degrees) it shouldn't expand as much, resulting in a denser foam.
The only problem to that is the 2lb/ft3 stuff really doesn't do jack for chassis strengthening. It will help damp vibrations and reduce road noise, but it's not going to do much to strengthen the car.
04-29-2008, 07:10 PM
#21
Originally Posted by Sport Compact Car Magazine
In a final bit of reengineering to stiffen the body, we injected the chassis with catalyzed rigid structural polyurethane foam. Structural foam, in the 2 lb per cubic foot density that we used, can stiffen chassis members up to 40 percent.
...
We were amazed at how this simple procedure improved the performance of the car. The chassis now almost feels like it has a roll cage. A sloped driveway can be driven up sideways with nary a creak. Even though the Z already has a pretty tight chassis, it feels more solid. The ride has improved and road noise has been reduced noticeably. We bet that the car will be even more responsive to chassis tuning measures in the future. If you are a slalom racer, a road racer, have a lowered car or even just want a smoother ride; foaming is a worthy, easy-to-do modification. Foamseal has foams in densities as high as 10 lbs per square foot if you desire to make things even stiffer.
...
We were amazed at how this simple procedure improved the performance of the car. The chassis now almost feels like it has a roll cage. A sloped driveway can be driven up sideways with nary a creak. Even though the Z already has a pretty tight chassis, it feels more solid. The ride has improved and road noise has been reduced noticeably. We bet that the car will be even more responsive to chassis tuning measures in the future. If you are a slalom racer, a road racer, have a lowered car or even just want a smoother ride; foaming is a worthy, easy-to-do modification. Foamseal has foams in densities as high as 10 lbs per square foot if you desire to make things even stiffer.
Originally Posted by gunluvs14 on FreshAlloy.com
Impression:
This stuff works!!!
I'm very happy. Not only the turn in is quicker, the poping noise I used to had when I load/unload the rear suspension on a hill/curb is gone.
I think filling up the joint between the A-pillar and the firewall helps the most, since the front end is much stiffer, and I started to experience more initial entrance understeering that I didn't have before.
The over all dynamics of the car is solid, and I can feel my suspension is working, also I might need some tires with stiffer sidewall b/c I finally able to feel the flex in the tires. Also I can feel all those slop from the worn out bushings. I can't sense none of those feedbacks before.
...
Another impression is driving across the railroad tracks and bridges gaps, it feels much smoother and less bumpy, quieter too.
So overall it feels likea new car. The car behave differently since I have more entrance understeering, and I have to re-learn how to modulate my brakes.
...
I drove my fiancee's S14 and my car back to back, and also compare it to Ryan's S14, My S14 is definately the stiffest I want to say it is as stiff as the S2000, closest feeling is probably the 350z that i drove, Ryan said its stiffer, idk
This stuff works!!!
I'm very happy. Not only the turn in is quicker, the poping noise I used to had when I load/unload the rear suspension on a hill/curb is gone.
I think filling up the joint between the A-pillar and the firewall helps the most, since the front end is much stiffer, and I started to experience more initial entrance understeering that I didn't have before.
The over all dynamics of the car is solid, and I can feel my suspension is working, also I might need some tires with stiffer sidewall b/c I finally able to feel the flex in the tires. Also I can feel all those slop from the worn out bushings. I can't sense none of those feedbacks before.
...
Another impression is driving across the railroad tracks and bridges gaps, it feels much smoother and less bumpy, quieter too.
So overall it feels likea new car. The car behave differently since I have more entrance understeering, and I have to re-learn how to modulate my brakes.
...
I drove my fiancee's S14 and my car back to back, and also compare it to Ryan's S14, My S14 is definately the stiffest I want to say it is as stiff as the S2000, closest feeling is probably the 350z that i drove, Ryan said its stiffer, idk
I used the exact same kit as both SCC and the S14 owner.
Last edited by VQuick; 04-29-2008 at 07:13 PM.
04-29-2008, 07:36 PM
#23
Kinda impossible since my chassis is already stuffed with foam and it ain't coming out!
Even if the chassis stiffening were minimal, the reduction in road noise was another main goal of the project anyway. I'll report back once I have my interior back and can take a proper test drive.
Even if the chassis stiffening were minimal, the reduction in road noise was another main goal of the project anyway. I'll report back once I have my interior back and can take a proper test drive.
05-05-2008, 07:17 AM
#26
I am gonna be using the 8lb and 16lb stuff in my Rx7. The only place I am putting it right now is in the rear subframe and also the part of the chassis that the rear subframe bolts to, mainly to reduce vibrations because I'll be running derlin subframe, and differential mounts, which is a hard plastic, almost a solid mount. If it helps keep me from tearing appart the rear subframe under hard launches, than that will be an added benefit.
05-05-2008, 02:04 PM
#29
Yep. I have SFCs seam welded to my frame rails but I don't believe fully seam welding a Maxima chassis is worth the effort. I am now in the process of applying RAAMmat and Ensolite foam to most of my interior, and also installing a new audio system to replace the Bose. Big project but it should be a large improvement when everything's done.
05-05-2008, 08:59 PM
#31
Will do. I weighed it last year so I have a baseline. The chassis foam adds almost nothing. The damping mat adds a fair amount, but it probably will be less than 40 pounds total. The Ensolite foam weighs almost nothing.
05-05-2008, 11:14 PM
#32
And as for foam... I would probably try and get some 8lbs/cubic foot stuff for the A/B/C pillars and 16lbs/cubic foot stuff for the floor, although I am a big perplexed as to how I would get that stuff into the pillars without the spray/injection kit. What do the "pour" type foams come with in terms of application?
05-06-2008, 07:11 AM
#33
If I had my car completely stripped down to the chassis and I had unlimited access to a welder, then it would be worth it for me. Having the chassis on a rotisserie would be even better. There was a thread about seam welding a year or so ago, did you see it?
I'm pretty sure the pour foams are just two containers that you have to mix and apply yourself, no nozzles or applicators.
I'm pretty sure the pour foams are just two containers that you have to mix and apply yourself, no nozzles or applicators.
05-06-2008, 09:43 PM
#34
I am wondering if I foam the chassis, if I tried seam welding later on would it burn away the foam?
If I can scrounge up the money soon it looks like I will be looking forward to a set of fender braces and some good chassis foaming. Maybe a little sound deadening for a little more isolation.
If I can scrounge up the money soon it looks like I will be looking forward to a set of fender braces and some good chassis foaming. Maybe a little sound deadening for a little more isolation.
05-06-2008, 10:10 PM
#35
Ya I would get all the welding done beforehand. That was why I did SFCs first. The foam can probably withstand fairly high temps without igniting, but if you accidentally touch the flame to the foam it will surely burn. More likely, it could melt or deform if the metal nearby gets hot enough, and then you've lost most of the benefit.
Another thing I thought of today while popping in some pillar trim pieces: many of the holes that you will be putting foam into are the same holes that various clips and bolts have to go back into. The 2lb/ft3 foam is soft enough to scrape out with a screwdriver or fingernail, but I'd bet that 8 or 16lb will be much harder due to the density. Some of the bolt holes for the seatbelts are threaded and it would be difficult to get the 16lb crap out of the threads unless you're super careful to cover them all before foaming.
I'll reiterate that I strongly advice against any two-part foam that doesn't come with a nozzle. It'd just be a frustrating mess IMO.
I'm looking forward to these fender braces too!
Another thing I thought of today while popping in some pillar trim pieces: many of the holes that you will be putting foam into are the same holes that various clips and bolts have to go back into. The 2lb/ft3 foam is soft enough to scrape out with a screwdriver or fingernail, but I'd bet that 8 or 16lb will be much harder due to the density. Some of the bolt holes for the seatbelts are threaded and it would be difficult to get the 16lb crap out of the threads unless you're super careful to cover them all before foaming.
I'll reiterate that I strongly advice against any two-part foam that doesn't come with a nozzle. It'd just be a frustrating mess IMO.
I'm looking forward to these fender braces too!
05-06-2008, 10:54 PM
#36
I want a BMW-stiff chassis--if the 8-16lbs/ft^3 stuff is significantly more effective than the 2lb/ft^3 stuff, which it should be by far, then I would rather spend the extra effort and go for that. SFCs and the LTB2 helped the chassis a good deal but it still has a long ways to go IMO.
Who's had some experience with the pour-type stuff?
Who's had some experience with the pour-type stuff?
05-07-2008, 01:27 PM
#37
for the things like seatbelt bolts and whatnot, simply coat the factory bolts in grease or anti seize and run them into the holes before the foam cures. Once it cures, remove the bolts and move on with life.
can't do that as well with the trim tabs and stuff, but you can do somethign similar. wrap the tabs in a piece of saran wrap and the insert back into the holes after you apply the foam. then they'll come right out again.
can't do that as well with the trim tabs and stuff, but you can do somethign similar. wrap the tabs in a piece of saran wrap and the insert back into the holes after you apply the foam. then they'll come right out again.
05-07-2008, 02:10 PM
#38
That's hard because the foam expands fully within 45 seconds or so. Perhaps the denser foams expand slightly more slowly (and I know they don't expand as much). So after you mix the two parts, you have under a minute working time. In that time you have to pour into the all the holes you can. Then you have to make up a new batch and repeat. Hard enough for the rockers, near impossible for the pillars with their holes at 90 degrees to the ground. It will take forever and there will be a lot of waste. Sciff is the only Org member that I've heard of using the heaver foams. See post #19 in this thread for his summary.
05-07-2008, 04:11 PM
#40
That'd certainly help. Don't forget the syringe will clog after about 20 seconds as the foam cures inside. The Handi Foam kit keeps the two components completely separate until it mixes them at the end of the nozzle. But with a syringe, you're mixing beforehand so the hardened foam will build up on the inside of it unless you soak it in acetone immediately after each injection. If you wait much more than 20 seconds you're dealing with cured foam that is, to quote the packaging, "impervious to all known solvents." You're gonna be frantically rushing against the clock the whole time.