Hi, It's time for me to change my pads. I have Axxis Ultimates at the moment, and I'm not happy from them from day 1. I loved the Hawk HP+ I had before, but I can't seem to find them. I'd like suggestions on an affordable, trackable pad for the fronts. Thanks!

Jae

 

The HP+'s for the 4th gen are the same as the ones for the 5th gen. Here is where I got my last set http://www.raceshopper.com/

 

are you running road course, or autocross?

 

SkinnyMax: thanx, I'll check out the website.

Irish44j: More road coarse. Do you think HP+ is appropriate, or suggest something else?

Thanx guys.

Jae

 

HP+ should be good to go.....HPS would be fine for autocross (what I use) but HP+ will have better heat capability for real courses.

I'm a big fan of Hawk pads, personally.

 

Another option are the Porterfields R4S or if you want race compound they have them too....

 

Would you say these are streetable pads? The HP+ required some warmup, about 3 good stops, then they're good to go. They made mild groan and really ate up my stock rotors. Are the R4S more aggressive?

Oh, and where to buy the R4S?

Jae

 

the r4s are the street compound from porterfield....the r4 is the race compound...

 

Thanks a bunch guys! I'm giving Porterfield a call. Thanks again.
Jae

 

I went to Porterfield and talked w/the Manager. We talked about the differences of HP+ and R4-S. They're the same, but the ramp-up coefficient were different. The HP+ will have an aggressive initial bite. I miss that "twitchyness". The R4-S was substantially cheaper w/the .org discount. Plus it's easier on the rotors and dusts less. So I went w/the R4-S. If I'm not satisfied, I'm heading back to Hawks. I'll give a report in about a month after I break them in.

Jae

 

So how did you like the R4-S? I'm interested because it's an HP+ competitor and I've owned multiple sets of HP+, but never the R4-S and I need a new pad (though I'll probably just go with the HPS since my turbo car will unfortunately never see a proper track most likely).



Not that it really applies to this thread anymore (since it's a couple months old), but to answer your question for anyone else who has it - I found the HP+ to be on the very verge of being insufficient for the road course with stock rotors in a basic bolt on maxima a few years ago. I was with fresh Ford HD 550* dry fluid, on T1-S with SFCs, RSB, FSTB, GCs/AGXs, and just a Ypipe and intake as power mods, on a short track (1.88mile Gingerman Raceway) and the pads were good for the first few laps of a 20 minute session. After the first few laps the pedal ended up mushy, however it did stay CONSISTENTLY mushy throughout the rest of the sessions. It didn't get any worse, though each time I went into turns 11 and 1 I wondered "is this the time when they aren't going to get the job done?" They never let me down, but felt like they were on the edge the entire time. If I'd been on an R they definately wouldn't have been up to the task.

When I then upgraded to my ghetto BBK consisting of 13" cobra rotors with stock calipers, using HP+, they were just what the doctor ordered - with the same setup as above (with MEVI, ECU, and exhaust added) on the same track. I never felt like I was running them on the ragged edge anymore, with the increased heat absorption and dissipation of the larger rotors. They stayed rock solid for the entire session every day I went out there.

 

I was always under the impression that the hawk hps was the competitor for the proterfield R4-S and the R-4 was th competitor for the HP+...

one of these days I am going to try the EBC yellow stuff for the track and swap in my hawk hps for the street as hawk doesn't make the HP+ for the 6th gen calipers or the j30/q45 calipers...

 

After breaking them in, the R4-S are better than the Ultimates I had. I haven't been able to use them that much cuz my tires were worn. I just got new tires today, so after I break those in, I'll give the track a try.

For normal street driving, the R4-S is more than adequate. It doesn't seem to need warmup like the HP+ did. Much less dusting than HP+ and Ultimates. So far they seem gentle on the rotors. The HP+ chewed up my rotor llike crazy, and after 1 track day my stock rotors started warping (which's probably related to Nealoc187's mushiness).

The HP+ were only $20 more then R4-S. If anybody local wants to try my R4-S, lemme kno.

Jae

 

I think you are right about that, I was thinking incorrectly.

I've got ultimates on my turbo car right now, and they are better than the autozone or whatever crap is on my beater car, but they are a far cry for HP+ and if i recall correctly, HPS as well. I haven't used an HPS in like 4 years, but i remember having more confidence in them than I have in these Ultimates. I had to do an emergency stop from fairly high speed over the weekend and during the course of that few seconds, I found myself wondering if the ultimates were going to get the job done... they did, but they didn't have much if anything left in them if I'd had to get on them just a little harder...

 

If you really want to make a jump up to some big boy pads, I'd suggest Hawk Blacks. They're UBER-Aggressive... but they stop like there's no tomorrow. If you want to stop, you stop NOW.


I had them on my 85 Mazda RX-7... and the only thing limiting the braking was the tires (205/50-15 Falken Azenis)... and ultimately, it doesn't matter if you've got a billion dollars wrapped up in your braking system, if your tires can't keep up.

 

Nealoc187: Werd. There were a few times when i wondered if I was gonna stop at all. It was quite difficult locking up front tires, especially w/squishy pedal feeling that the ultimates had. With my brake/tire combo, the brakes were lacking.

Chefasaurus: do the Blacks require warmup? I don't wanna mess with changing pads.

Jae

 

Yeah... there is some warm up time. They are actually, as odd as it may sound, a lot like carbon-carbon brakes.... the more you maul on them, the more they keep coming back for more.


I wasn't sure if you were using them for autoX, or road race, or street/occasional race, etc. I'm speaking solely from personal experience on a purpose-built track car. It was built with autoX only/occasional road racing in mind, no street duty. But again, they are VERY aggressive. Lots of dust, lots of stress on rotors. BUT... phenomenal stopping.


--Evan

 

Hawk blacks are sweet on the track in a race only environment... on the street, blacks, blues, HTs and DTCs = death

 

Neal pulling a MikeD = Near death experience

 

I'd suggest also getting some braided ss brakelines, if you don't already have them. I think Horsepowerfreaks.com has the Goodridge DOT-approved ones for ~$110.

 

I got the brakelines. Didn't notice a difference in pedal feel or fatigue.
Jae

 

That's odd... every car I've had braided ss brakelines on went from squishy brakes that went to the floor, to rock solid brakes that went maybe an inch.

 

Maybe it was the fluid that you replaced when you did the SS lines at the same time, maybe the old fluid had some air in it or something.

 

I flush my fluid every season. DOT3. No difference. Haven't had it boil on me yet. Maybe I'm not driving aggressive enuf?
Jae