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95maxrider's 2011 Auto-x results

Old 05-13-2011, 02:24 PM
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95maxrider's 2011 Auto-x results

This year, as in the last two years, I've been running my I30 with the local BMW club due to many friends running with the club, good competition and laid back atmosphere. There are many new drivers at each event, but there are also usually many seasoned pros who I've been trying to measure my progress against. Honestly, I mostly just measure myself against Josh (Irish) and his '09 WRX (stage 1 tune, suspension work, R-comps) since he comes to most events and because he's faster than me, it gives me something to shoot for.

Last year was the first year I ran on summer tires (Michelin PS2) and WOW did they make a difference over my bald AS tires. At the last race of the season for 2010 I actually edged out Josh by a few 10ths! This was the first race I had the Sparco steering wheel, and I think it really helped on the quick transitions.

This year my car has a few new mods, including a VLSD trans, aluminum steering column bushing, a steering rack out of a 97 SE and an NWP engine torque link. Other mods are:

Trimmed Konis/Eibachs
Progress RSB
FSTB
Stage 2 SFCs
Stage 2 LTB
TET subframe collars (6 of the 8 since two weren't compatible with the LTB)
All ES bushings, motor mounts
Superpro Poly Rear Trailing Arm Bushing
Aluminum front bumper support

At some point this year I will get around to finishing the battery relocation and install the OEM camber plates, and I hope to finally get the beam bent to 0 toe and get the panhard rod installed.

So on to the results. I usually run the car with about 45f/45r psi and the front Konis set to full stiff. I get the feeling they're still not quite stiff enough for the Eibachs though.

The first race of the season was at the stadium in Waldorf. It's a very big lot with some elevation change. I was still breaking in the new 5th gen clutch at this race (only 130 miles were on it) so I took it easy on the launch and shift, but still pulled out 2nd place in my class (X3). You can find ALL results on the lower left hand corner of the page HERE

I had a time of 48.1. Josh ran 47.4.

The second race was held at a lot in Manassas that we haven't run at before, and it's very small. So small in fact that we all got 7 runs instead of the usual 4. The AM session (car with numbers that started with a 1xx) ran while it was drizzling out, and after a heavy rain, so that AM group was very slow compared to the PM group. I ran in the second half of the PM group, and as such, ran in the best conditions. This would help explain how I was able to get 8th place overall out of more than 100 cars.

I ended up with a 29.2, again good for second in my class. Josh got a 29.0, so I closed the gap a little bit!

I have in-car videos of all my runs if anyone is interested. I should probably put a few up on YouTube. The third race is tomorrow, so I will update this again when results are posted!

Last edited by 95maxrider; 05-13-2011 at 02:26 PM.
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Old 05-14-2011, 07:32 PM
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What's your front toe set at? What happens when you drop the front pressures from 45psi to 40-43ish? Have you installed the offset caster bushing's in front? That might help your camber curve a bit and save a couple tenths of over compensating with the plates when you add em.
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Old 05-15-2011, 12:18 AM
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Speaking of the setting the konis to the eibachs, i dunno if im the first person to speak out about them but i had Konis too and i HATE the eibachs, no matter how i set the Konis the eibachs just felt so unrefined and crude, they have always felt like a really bad progressive spring, very floaty. The only other spring people consider to be in the same range as the Eibachs are H&Rs and i have those on 2 of my cars and they match the Konis perfectly.

H&Rs i know are softer than the eibachs(even thou they do not feel like it), but i would try some different springs to be honest. Maybe the Eibachs on the Ground controls are better than the actually lowering springs. But my experience with them if somebody wants these things they can have them but i would never recommend them, they feel as if they were not made for the car, sort of a one size fits all type thing.

Up to you really, you most likely have more experience with different suspension combos, but eibachs definitely do not top my list.
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Old 05-15-2011, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Crusher103 View Post
Speaking of the setting the konis to the eibachs, i dunno if im the first person to speak out about them but i had Konis too and i HATE the eibachs, no matter how i set the Konis the eibachs just felt so unrefined and crude, they have always felt like a really bad progressive spring, very floaty. The only other spring people consider to be in the same range as the Eibachs are H&Rs and i have those on 2 of my cars and they match the Konis perfectly.

H&Rs i know are softer than the eibachs(even thou they do not feel like it), but i would try some different springs to be honest. Maybe the Eibachs on the Ground controls are better than the actually lowering springs. But my experience with them if somebody wants these things they can have them but i would never recommend them, they feel as if they were not made for the car, sort of a one size fits all type thing.

Up to you really, you most likely have more experience with different suspension combos, but eibachs definitely do not top my list.
Almost every spring/strut combo for these cars is a one size fits all, they don't make drop springs for handling just for looks. Same goes for most of the Sentra lowering springs, IIRC only Hypercoil came out with a dedicated lowering spring (only 1") that helped handling as well. On top of that Konis need to be revalved to match the springs your using IMO.

I wasn't a fan of the Koni Yellows on my car with the GCs and Eibach race springs. Even at the full stiff rebound setting the car was floaty over bumps, come to find out there wasn't enough rebound on the Konis to handle the springs. With the revalved struts the car feels and handles better.

Regardless good lap times at auto-x. Maybe if I am ever down there we can attend an event, even though I am terrible at auto-x courses.
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Old 05-15-2011, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by BEJAY1 View Post
What's your front toe set at? What happens when you drop the front pressures from 45psi to 40-43ish? Have you installed the offset caster bushing's in front? That might help your camber curve a bit and save a couple tenths of over compensating with the plates when you add em.
IIRC I either have 0 toe up front or about +1/8".

Yesterday I ran at 42 all around and I couldn't tell much of a difference.

I don't have the offset caster bushings because I seem to remember some adverse side effects people talked about with them. Did you have them on your car?

Crusher- I used to run H&Rs on KYB AGXs, but sold the combo when I got the Konis/Eibachs. It's true, the Eibachs don't ride great, but I've gotten used to them. And I'm just don't feel like dealing with a coilover setup...

And for the third race of the season---

We were back at the small lot in Manassas, and it was a lot more technical/tighter than the last setup there. There were 3 separate slaloms and a tight chicago box going into two offset gates before the finish. On most days I don't hit a single cone, but yesterday I was hitting multiple cones on most runs. Since it was such a short course again (~30 sec) we got 7 runs again, and I think I only had one clean run out of the bunch. I just couldn't place my car as well as I usually do.

Although the results haven't been posted, I believe I came in second place in my X3 class again, only some 0.03 behind an RX8 on 265 width Star Specs, coilovers, I/E, etc. I think my best clean was a 32.1, but I had four dirty runs in the 31s. I was able to hold off the blue S2000 that has been coming to all the events so far, which means I should still be in first place in my class. I'm really looking forward to getting back to the wide open space of the lot in Waldorf, as my car just isn't suited for the Manassas lot.

The odd car of the day was on a Jeep Cherokee with a bored out 4.0 to a 4.6 with suspension work. Normally they don't allow trucks/SUVs to run, but I guess they made an exception for this guy. It actually looked pretty flat, and the thing sounded good!

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Old 05-15-2011, 01:40 PM
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That Cherokee is awesome.

Originally Posted by 98SEBlackMax View Post
Almost every spring/strut combo for these cars is a one size fits all, they don't make drop springs for handling just for looks. Same goes for most of the Sentra lowering springs, IIRC only Hypercoil came out with a dedicated lowering spring (only 1") that helped handling as well. On top of that Konis need to be revalved to match the springs your using IMO.

I wasn't a fan of the Koni Yellows on my car with the GCs and Eibach race springs. Even at the full stiff rebound setting the car was floaty over bumps, come to find out there wasn't enough rebound on the Konis to handle the springs. With the revalved struts the car feels and handles better.

Regardless good lap times at auto-x. Maybe if I am ever down there we can attend an event, even though I am terrible at auto-x courses.
About the Revalve, how did you go about getting that done, and how much did it cost? Another one of the reasons i didnt like the eibachs was because im MT so i always had that sag in the rear, the autos due to weight leveled out better.

Originally Posted by 95maxrider View Post
Crusher- I used to run H&Rs on KYB AGXs, but sold the combo when I got the Konis/Eibachs. It's true, the Eibachs don't ride great, but I've gotten used to them. And I'm just don't feel like dealing with a coilover setup...
I love the H&Rs on koni, it works perfectly together, there is some body roll, the ride is noticeable stiffer but not to a level of discomfort, very nice combo. I have just loved them since i got them. The rear end especially and this is what im talking about with the floatyness, my eibach/konis, i hit a bump mid turn and that rear end starts skipping around even people driving behind me notice the unease in the rear. Same situation with the H&R/koni, or even my other car that has Maxspeed/AGX, the rear end stays planted

i can understand not wanting to deal with COs, but honestly they are the best way to go, BCs have been proven great coilovers for a low price and D2 aswell. In the past 2 years there products have been very solid performers. they just hit your pockets a little hard.
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Old 05-15-2011, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by 95maxrider View Post
IIRC I either have 0 toe up front or about +1/8".

Yesterday I ran at 42 all around and I couldn't tell much of a difference.

I don't have the offset caster bushings because I seem to remember some adverse side effects people talked about with them. Did you have them on your car?
That's a big difference between zero and 1/8". Double check it's not zero, that will help turn in. Just curious about the PSI. Ever taken tire temps between 40deg and 45? Borrow someone's pyro just to see if the middle is a tad hot. I have the offset caster bushings - never took em off. For the effor it did only get me like 3 tenths, but looking back that's enough to make it worthwhile - at least you're not overcompensating the camber and sacrificing braking ability.
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Old 05-30-2011, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by 95maxrider View Post
Honestly, I mostly just measure myself against Josh (Irish) and his '09 WRX (stage 1 tune, suspension work, R-comps) since he comes to most events and because he's faster than me, it gives me something to shoot for.
just a minor correction Nick - I'm not on r-comps. I'm on shaved Yoko AD08s, which are WAAAAAY cycled out with over 200 runs on them. They don't have much traction to speak of until about my 3rd run, which is killing me! The AD08s also like alot of camber, and unfortunately I'm STILL waiting for RaceComp to get me the front camber plate prototypes they've been talking about..so I'm stuck at -1.5* with bolts and still have serious understeer issues, grr.....

not that it's an excuse for how close you're hanging with my times, that still rests with the driver....and you're driving yours about as well as I've seen any maxima/i30 driven on an autocross course. You would definitely be beating my old 5th gen, with all the **** it had done to it!

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Old 07-22-2011, 06:30 AM
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Event 4- Waldorf, MD

Well my car didn't make this event due to the gauge cluster being out of the car which apparently is a part of the circuit for the alternator, so the car ran for about 3 blocks before dying on me.

I was planning on running in a family member's 1997 Acura TL 2.5 I-5 since it would be in my class, but at the last minute I asked a friend to run in his RX-8 (the one that barely beat me last event). From the first run to the last I was about 1.5 seconds faster than him in his own car. Considering I have very limited experience driving RWD, I'm pretty happy. Even with all his engine mods that car has no *****. Even at 8000 rpm I barely felt like I was moving. Between the ridiculous amounts of grip from the 265 Star Specs and coilovers and the lack of power I was pretty much able to stay WOT for the entire run. I ended up with a 50.2, 0.4 behind Josh IIRC, but if the 2nd gear syncho wasn't toast on the RX-8 I think I could have closed the gap.

For the next auto-x my car should be on the road and with a few very important changes. Namely a panhard rod and bumpsteer kit I'm debating whether or not I should have some negative camber added to the rear beam while I'm at 2J Racing, but without camber plates installed I'm worried it will just make me understeer more. I should probably also center the beam while we're at it.....

And no, my camber plates still aren't in the car, my battery still isn't relocated and I still have bad hesitation....
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Old 07-22-2011, 06:56 AM
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I think it was more its his car is the reason he ran slower(scared to break it), my friend in a S14 had the same experience when another one of my friends that has an S70 co-drove his car he doesnt drive a RWD regularly but he was 1.2 faster.

Its funny how that works out and how you can ride their azz for being slower than you and they know the car better.
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Old 07-22-2011, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Crusher103 View Post
I think it was more its his car is the reason he ran slower(scared to break it), my friend in a S14 had the same experience when another one of my friends that has an S70 co-drove his car he doesnt drive a RWD regularly but he was 1.2 faster.

Its funny how that works out and how you can ride their azz for being slower than you and they know the car better.
Actually we rode with each other for the first three runs and he wasn't very smooth with the wheel. And if you knew my friend you would know he beats the ever loving **** out of his car, so I don't think that was a factor. I know that when I auto-x my car I don't hold anything back; if it breaks it breaks. Some people are just better drivers
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Old 07-23-2011, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by 95maxrider View Post
For the next auto-x my car should be on the road and with a few very important changes. Namely a panhard rod and bumpsteer kit I'm debating whether or not I should have some negative camber added to the rear beam while I'm at 2J Racing, but without camber plates installed I'm worried it will just make me understeer more. I should probably also center the beam while we're at it.....:
The only reason to adjust rear camber would be to correct the contact patch and increase rear grip. I can't speak to the panhard changes but I seriously doubt you want MORE grip back there. Adding toe would probably be much more beneficial to get the car to rotate.
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Old 07-23-2011, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by 95maxrider View Post
Event 4- Waldorf, MD
I ended up with a 50.2, 0.4 behind Josh IIRC, but if the 2nd gear syncho wasn't toast on the RX-8 I think I could have closed the gap.
you should have, lol. I was driving like a douchebag that day. 5 freakin runs and made the same 2 mistakes on every damn one! Still can't believe my best run I was going sideways across the finish line.

Originally Posted by 95maxrider View Post
Actually we rode with each other for the first three runs and he wasn't very smooth with the wheel. And if you knew my friend you would know he beats the ever loving **** out of his car, so I don't think that was a factor. I know that when I auto-x my car I don't hold anything back; if it breaks it breaks. Some people are just better drivers
This. And he overdrives that thing big-time. On the parts of course I could see from grid, you were CLEARLY smoother and taking better lines.

Originally Posted by BEJAY1 View Post
The only reason to adjust rear camber would be to correct the contact patch and increase rear grip. I can't speak to the panhard changes but I seriously doubt you want MORE grip back there. Adding toe would probably be much more beneficial to get the car to rotate.
^^what he said. you don't want more camber in the rear.....even with the panhard.
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Old 08-12-2011, 02:09 PM
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how do you get to run in one of these events? kinda been wanting to see what the max can do in a road course. just basic suspension mods, konis eibach, sway bar, 3.5 swap if anyone had info please shoot me an im, located in NoVA
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Old 08-12-2011, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by aic96max View Post
how do you get to run in one of these events? kinda been wanting to see what the max can do in a road course. just basic suspension mods, konis eibach, sway bar, 3.5 swap if anyone had info please shoot me an im, located in NoVA
Well it's not a road course, it's just auto-x. You can find registration info on the NCC BMW website here:
LINK

The next event is Saturday the 27th in Waldorf. Feel free to join my caravan down there!

Your car would be in the X2 class; I'm in X3 since I have a 3.0. Your car sounds like it's ready to race, and I would love to see another Maxima out there with me, so please try and come!

BTW, I got my panhard rod and bumpsteer kit installed at 2JR and I plan on beating Josh this time around Yes, I think it can be done
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Old 09-20-2011, 05:04 PM
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Well a lot has happened since the last race (#4). Race 5 got cancelled due to the “hurricane” and I’ve been struggling to find the source of a vibration I feel mostly between 20-30 mph. I initially thought it was an engine problem so I did some tuneup work. Since the last race my car was in (#3), I’ve installed 6 new NGK platinum plugs to replace my old coppers, 2 new Nissan coil packs, an O2 sensor, a new fuel pump, a new flex section in my y-pipe and cleaned my K&N filter and MAF. The car feels much more responsive now, but the vibration remains. Oh well.

I’ve also had a lot of work done to the suspension. I had 2J Racing install their panhard rod and bumpsteer kit. I wrote a lengthy reivew in the panhard thread, but suffice to say that it’s awesome, and the bumpsteer kit didn’t do a thing (as it's currently installed). I also replaced my beat up ES LCA bushings with the delrin kit now available for sale. 2JR also unbent my LTB from when I ran over a deer going 80 mph 5 years ago.

Event 6 was at the Manassas lot, which is the tightest lot we’ve ever raced in. It was set up a little differently than before, but was still incredibly tight. I was expecting many cones and a relatively slow time. To my surprise, the car handled the course quite well.

Here’s a video from Josh’s camera as mine ran out of batteries:



Well Josh has been my target for some time now, and he didn’t exactly have the best day, but I’m still happy to report that I had his number that day. My best time was almost 1.5 seconds faster than his and I didn’t hit a single cone! I did so well in fact, that the only non-BMWs to beat me were Miatas! Results can be found here towards the left on the bottom under “Event 6 results”. My car is in the X3/non-BMW class.

Results

The course was so tight that I don’t think I went WOT once, and I wasn’t carrying much speed into the turns, so it wasn’t the best course to judge the effectiveness of the panhard rod, but the next race is in less than two weeks at the large lot in Waldorf, where I can really exploit the power and balance of the car. I’m really looking forward to that one! There’s a chance I will have the battery relocated by then and get my car re-aligned (it needs it badly). I think the results of this race speak for them self; this car is actually good at auto-x now! After the panhard was installed, the car actually became fun to drive instead of just being frustrating, it's great. With more roll resistance (coilovers) and more grip/quicker turn-in (Direzzas), this car would be VERY fast. Next year.....

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Old 10-10-2011, 08:19 AM
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For the seventh race of the season we were back at the big lot in Waldorf. It was drizzling most of the day and pretty chilly with the wind going. I was disappointed to find the course design was unnecessarily tight, given how wide open the lot is, so I didn’t get the advantage I usually have at the venue. The first half of the PM session took much longer than it should have due to some people getting many re-runs because of faulty timing equipment, so by the time I got to race I had forgotten half of the course. I naturally went off course twice on my first run (out of four) and once again on my third run. It might have been the soaking wet feet, or it just might have not been my day, but I never felt like I got into the groove.

This was the second event I’ve run after the panhard rod install, and the car behaved very well. I didn’t get to carry a lot of speed into corners, so I still didn’t get to explore its potential, but I don’t remember getting frustrated at my car when running. Turn in is pretty quick and understeer has almost vanished as long as I don’t drive like an ***. I would still like some quicker turn-in response, and more power would always be welcome, but I’m actually pretty happy with the way the car behaves.

I came in 2nd place in my class behind a 06 Miata with a 57.5 to his 56.8. Josh ended up with a 57.8 in his WRX, and we somehow both lost to that crazy Cherokee who got a 57.0!! He got new wheels and some beefy looking track tires…..I don’t know what to say. Not cool. I still beat most of the BMWs, so that’s something at least.

Either way I’ve clenched first place for my class for the season, and in the races where I had my car (and not that RX-8 for one race) I’ve come in first or second place, so I think I’ve earned first place, even though for my class it’s really just an attendance award since very few people showed up to more than three events.

The final race is in three weeks at the small lot in Manassas again, but I will have one final mod for that race! Josh was kind enough to lend most of his Sunday to help me finish up my battery relocation yesterday, and I’m so happy to finally be able to check this off my list of things to do. I’m going to post up a write up and some pictures soon, but I think it went very well. I haven’t driven it very hard yet, so I’m not sure how much of a difference I’m going to feel, but a 2% change in weight distribution is nothing to sneeze at.

This leads me to next season…..what to do? I’ve been thinking a lot about my brakes and how unnecessarily heavy the Cobra rotors are for auto-x. I was thinking of just going back to stock since the pad selection is better than the Q45 calipers and I could race full race pads for cheap compared to the custom ones I would have to get for the Q45 calipers. Then I remembered the pedal feel of stock and started thinking about a small BBK. Are there any 4 pot aftermarket calipers/kits that will fit under 16” wheels? I think I want track wheels next year and wouldn’t mind saving some money and weight by switching from 17s to 16s. There’s always the Z32 kit, but I think I want the awesome pedal feel of some aftermarket calipers.

I'll try and post up a video soon!
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Old 10-11-2011, 05:15 AM
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Sounds like lightweight 16" wheels and the best tires you can afford for your class are in order. Start searching now as lightweight-wide 16" wheels can be difficult to come by quickly.
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Old 10-11-2011, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by BEJAY1 View Post
Sounds like lightweight 16" wheels and the best tires you can afford for your class are in order. Start searching now as lightweight-wide 16" wheels can be difficult to come by quickly.
So on that note I've been exchanging emails with a guy at Fast Brakes and they have a kit that will fit under 16" wheels. It's their normal caliper with a 12.2" rotor. However, there are two options for the two-piece rotor. The first is what he would normally recommend, which is what they call the HD rotor, which weighs 12.7 pounds. They also carry a lighter version which weighs 10.4 pounds. He says our stock rotors weigh 15.5 pounds, and my Cobra rotors weigh 19.5 pounds. Apparently the HD rotors have more internal vanes. He said I might be able to get away with the 10.4 pounds rotors, but I'm not sure if they would be enough.

For wheels, my initial thought was to try and find some used 16x8 Enkei RPF1s, but they are quite expensive. I know I could get the 16x8" (8.5?) rear Z32 wheels, and I'm vaguely aware of the RX7 wheels, but I don't know much about them. I would really like a wheel that weighs less than 15 pounds. What other wheels do you think I should be looking for?

BTW, I'm thinking of making the jump to R-comps for next year, but know little about the different brands that make them. What are some of the popular R-comps? If it matters, I'm willing to trade overall grip to get some turn-in response. How much does sidewall stiffness vary between R-comps?

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Old 10-11-2011, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by 95maxrider View Post
Well Josh has been my target for some time now, and he didn’t exactly have the best day, but I’m still happy to report that I had his number that day. My best time was almost 1.5 seconds faster than his and I didn’t hit a single cone! .
Thanks for not mentioning that I hit pretty much every cone on the entire course at one point in another during my 5 runs More cones in 1 day than I had in all of the last 2 seasons events combined, seriously. WTH is my problem, lol....

Originally Posted by 95maxrider View Post

I came in 2nd place in my class behind a 06 Miata with a 57.5 to his 56.8. Josh ended up with a 57.8 in his WRX, and we somehow both lost to that crazy Cherokee who got a 57.0!! He got new wheels and some beefy looking track tires…..I don’t know what to say. Not cool. I still beat most of the BMWs, so that’s something at least.
!
again, thanks for not mentioning my several cones, my full spinout on what was going to be a very fast run, and my very, very poor decision to run cycled-out, very shaved AD08's in the rain. I am epic fail....it's a good thing I'm setting up a rallycross car, since my autocross skills/setup seem to be regressing....

**** that Cherokee.....I killed him by 4+ seconds in the last dry event. Stupid tires, lol.

I will mention my fastest runs on the last 2 events were both with Nick riding shotgun. Go figure...

Last edited by irish44j; 10-11-2011 at 04:28 PM.
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Old 10-12-2011, 07:36 AM
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You really should choose a tire (ie class) first, then the appropriate wheel to maximize it's grip. I had the same trouble locating cheap 16x8's < 14lbs and used the 15.2lb 17x7.5 RPF-1's my last 2 seasons. Tire size choices and gearing will also come into play at least for auto-x. There's a massive difference between a 245 Hoosier A6 and any other tire (Kumho, Goodyear, streets). What may rotate now on streets may stick with race rubber. You might want to consider staggered widths for race rubber.

As for the rotors, go for the lightest 2-piece, and add some cooling ducting if needed for tracking.
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Old 10-12-2011, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Irish44j View Post
I will mention my fastest runs on the last 2 events were both with Nick riding shotgun. Go figure...
I think when I'm in the car you want to show me how well you can drive, and you know in the back of your head that you've been over-driving your car the previous runs, so you slow down a bit and go faster! That, and my raw talent is so radiant that it spread to you due to our close proximity Seriously, I think my car is just better prepared (has a lot more mods/torque) for auto-x than your car. At the final event we should drive each others car's for the first or second run so we can see what we're up against and if my recent victories are really just the car!

Originally Posted by BEJAY1 View Post
You really should choose a tire (ie class) first, then the appropriate wheel to maximize it's grip. I had the same trouble locating cheap 16x8's < 14lbs and used the 15.2lb 17x7.5 RPF-1's my last 2 seasons. Tire size choices and gearing will also come into play at least for auto-x. There's a massive difference between a 245 Hoosier A6 and any other tire (Kumho, Goodyear, streets). What may rotate now on streets may stick with race rubber. You might want to consider staggered widths for race rubber.

As for the rotors, go for the lightest 2-piece, and add some cooling ducting if needed for tracking.
After some research, it looks like the RX7 wheels vary in weight but all have a +50 offset. I'm not so sure about how well that will work with the big Wilwoods...they're 16x8 and can weigh less than 14 pounds! I saw some sets for sale for $200!!

Due to the stage 2 LTB and stage 2 SFCs, my car is in E Prepared. I'm pretty sure I can do whatever I want with tires in EP!

Why do you specifically mention the 245 Hoosier A6? Is that just the go-to R-comp tire? I remember almost pissing my pants at my first auto-x on the PS2s after running only AS tires before, so I can't imagine what the A6 can do. How stiff are the sidewalls on those things? I would really like a stiffer sidewall and better response.

Rotate? Not so much....I don't even have coilovers......yet. I'm been going back and forth between the $1000 BC and the $2000 JIC FLT A2 coilovers for next year.

So you think the super light rotors would be safe on our car? They are $200 cheaper too I figure if I get some real track pads and install the ducting I have lying around I will probably survive a track day

Last edited by 95maxrider; 10-12-2011 at 04:43 PM.
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Old 10-13-2011, 04:06 AM
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Originally Posted by 95maxrider View Post
After some research, it looks like the RX7 wheels vary in weight but all have a +50 offset. I'm not so sure about how well that will work with the big Wilwoods...they're 16x8 and can weigh less than 14 pounds! I saw some sets for sale for $200!!
I had trouble fitting the RX-7 wheels even with 15mm spacers. Don't remember which springs (how low) that was with though. My notes show the RX-7 FD3S-PFD from '93 being the lightest 13.8lbs type but having mfg problems, brittle, and subject to stress fractures. The 94+ RX-7 FD3S were 15.4+ lbs and better constructed (both were cast not forged types).
Originally Posted by 95maxrider View Post
Due to the stage 2 LTB and stage 2 SFCs, my car is in E Prepared. I'm pretty sure I can do whatever I want with tires in EP! Why do you specifically mention the 245 Hoosier A6? Is that just the go-to R-comp tire? I remember almost pissing my pants at my first auto-x on the PS2s after running only AS tires before, so I can't imagine what the A6 can do. How stiff are the sidewalls on those things? I would really like a stiffer sidewall and better response.
The Hoosier sidewalls are stiffer than probably anything else you've seen. Think of them as ultralight runflats. R-comps are significantly faster than any street rubber. GRM 2/10 - V710 2.8% faster than Ecsta XS. Assume Goodyear Eagle RS slightly faster than V710. GRM 10/11 A6 2.3% faster than Eagle RS. Also, my testing (losing) this year shows older A6's to be as much as 1-2% slower than brand new A6 rubber. Note, you will need stiffer suspension to compensate for the additional grip expecially sweepers. Be prepared to buy front tires every 1-2 years though depending on total runs.
Originally Posted by 95maxrider View Post
So you think the super light rotors would be safe on our car? They are $200 cheaper too I figure if I get some real track pads and install the ducting I have lying around I will probably survive a track day
I'm no brake expert. As long as the track pads don't eat the rotors, and you keep them cool enough I'd think lesser vanes would be fine. Perhaps run it by the road race community with similar weight FWD vehicles.
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:17 AM
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If you are going to only auto-x you could stick with 16s, but if your going to road course alot go with 17s and larger brakes. I've used 235/40/17 and 245/40/17 sizes for road course and they both haved worked well. There are also dozens of R-comps available in those two sizes.

2JR recomends the 225/40/17 R6 Hoosiers for road course and the numbers make good sense, cost aside. The gearing will be more aggresive, they run alot wider than normal R-comps, and are lightweight. Probally going to pair them up with my 17 x 8.5 +40 RFP1s next season as I am in the market for another set of R-comps. If money is tight next year I am looking at the Hankook 245/40/17 Z214 tires as well.
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Old 10-14-2011, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by 98SEBlackMax View Post
2JR recomends the 225/40/17 R6 Hoosiers for road course and the numbers make good sense, cost aside. The gearing will be more aggresive, they run alot wider than normal R-comps, and are lightweight. Probally going to pair them up with my 17 x 8.5 +40 RFP1s next season as I am in the market for another set of R-comps. If money is tight next year I am looking at the Hankook 245/40/17 Z214 tires as well.
God damn, lighter and puts more meat to the ground than my v710s

If I paid full price for my v710s I would be piissseedddd now.

But can't beat 190 shipped brand new w/ heat treatment to mah front do'
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Old 10-30-2011, 09:33 AM
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Well I've been looking around for 16x8" track wheels and my only options seem to be to buy new, and I don't really feel like spending $1000 on track wheels. The Z32 wheels are a little too heavy, and the RX7 wheels don't look like they're going to fit. So I've been looking at 17" options, and found some nice light 17x7.5 Kosei K1s that weigh some 16 pounds for cheap. Even though the size isn't ideal, it works out perfectly for some 225/40/17 Hoosier A6s, so I'm seriously considering this combo at the moment.

I found my way over to the Nissan Road Racing community and Matt chimed in and said the lighter 12.2" rotors will probably be fine as long as I don't road race, and if I do, some brake ducting may be all I need aside from better pads. On that note, I ghetto rigged up some rubber intake tubing from a late-80s Bronco to function as brake ducts, and with just two zip ties (I said it was ghetto!) and some strategic placement they held up to a week of street driving. The outlets are still a little far from the rotor, so I'm thinking of chopping up the side plastic covers a bit to re-angle the ducts and get them closer.

Final Event #8

Results are HERE on the left hand side

Well yesterday was the final event for the local BMW club, and it was a miserable one. Weather conditions were about 40* with mixed rain/snow for he entire event. With such miserable conditions, few people showed up, with 30 total participants. I'm still on my summer PS2 tires, and started wishing I had put on my A/S+ tires instead. Upon arrival, I overheard one guy with an STI talking about having the FTD for the morning session, but I didn't hear his time. After watching a Prelude have the fastest time in the first heat of the PM session (I always work first to watch where people make mistakes), I set my goal to be the fastest 2wd car for the event.

I had left my tire pressures at 35 for the race, and didn't bother bringing my camera and mount.

Well since we were at the small Manassas lot, times were mostly in the 38 second range, so we got 6 runs instead of the usual 4 or 5. I was worried after the first two runs because my buddy with a mostly stock 330 coupe, who I normally smash pretty badly, was ahead of me by more than half a second and putting down very good times. I decided to bump up my Konis and start pushing the car harder. I was rewarded with ever decreasing times, and by my fifth run I had set FTD for 2wd cars and was in 2nd overall behind the STI! I wasn't able to close the 1.2 second gap between me and the FTD STI, but I still beat both Evos and another STI, along with every BMW!

Due to less competition in my class than in previous years, I clinched first place for the season a few events ago, which is also probably why Josh didn't show up to this event (I don't blame him, although he would have had fun on his street tires!).

This was also the first event I got to experience the effects of the relocated battery (finally.....thanks Josh!!!), and I must say I was impressed. Describing what I felt is difficult, but there seems to be less push/roll in the front and the car settles quicker when turning hard. I still have yet to experience any form of oversteer however.

We had some fun runs after the event and I finally convinced my friend with the 330 to let me drive his car on the course (I've driven it on the street, but he's very protective), and even with SC/TC off, the car was very docile. He runs the Hankook V12 tires BTW. Off the line, his car had boatloads more grip than my car, so much so that I could go WOT and not lose traction. Granted, my car has 20+ more whp than him, but I was blown away at how the RWD dynamics helped in wet conditions. I could only use 50% throttle before spinning my tires when getting off the line. Aside from the superior dynamics of everything else in the car, I was most impressed by the braking of his car! Granted, I wasn't carrying as much speed in his car coming towards the straight finish as I did in my car, but his ABS system is just miles ahead of the crap in my car. He has stock brakes, but you could just stomp on them and the car would stop with minimal ABS intervention. I would say his car stopped in HALF the distance my car did in those wet conditions. I'm not sure how much that would change in dry conditions, but that was all the push I need to get that Wilwood setup. Why are BMW brakes so damn good??

I'm going to run with the Porsche club next weekend for one last event and then throw on my AS tires for the winter and start the process of building this car for next year in the SCCA! Due to the stage 2 LTB and SFCs, my car can be in either XP class, which is essentially unlimited, or EP, which requires factory motor, but allows built internals. I have no desire to build my motor, but I am leaning towards BC coilovers with maybe a 500/450 combo, track wheels with A6 tires, and the Wilwood kit. I would probably run in the class with the least amount of competition, even if that means running in the XP class. I've also been toying with the idea of getting a stage 1 LTB and removing the stage 2 bracing from the SFCs so I can run in a more realistic class, but I would need to find out exactly where that would put me before I start making any decisions.

So that's the end of the story for today......

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Old 10-31-2011, 06:16 AM
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As for as autocross, yes, change both the LTB and SFC's to stage 1's and welcome to DSP! The Panhard should be fine, and the DE-K probably falls under the update rule. Go find further weight reductions too. 225/40 Hoosiers are an excellent diameter and good for mid 60's in 2nd gear (like my shaved 225/45's I had). Just bounce the rev limiter on the very large sites. I'm guessing you'll create more understeer as those rear 225 are gonna stick even more than now. (Ok, FWD 1st run cold spin, then sticky as they heat up). Unfortunately I don't see a good stagger size that matches those for anything larger in front or smaller in rear. You really still want much more footprint in front than just 225's. The fastest DSP BMW 330's are running 285's on their rears.
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Old 10-31-2011, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by BEJAY1 View Post
As for as autocross, yes, change both the LTB and SFC's to stage 1's and welcome to DSP! The Panhard should be fine, and the DE-K probably falls under the update rule. Go find further weight reductions too. 225/40 Hoosiers are an excellent diameter and good for mid 60's in 2nd gear (like my shaved 225/45's I had). Just bounce the rev limiter on the very large sites. I'm guessing you'll create more understeer as those rear 225 are gonna stick even more than now. (Ok, FWD 1st run cold spin, then sticky as they heat up). Unfortunately I don't see a good stagger size that matches those for anything larger in front or smaller in rear. You really still want much more footprint in front than just 225's. The fastest DSP BMW 330's are running 285's on their rears.
Hmm, what if I got 16x8s and ran the 245/45/16 Hoosiers? Would those be too short since they would normally be a 55 series tire? I could always look for a 17x8 and run the 245/40/17, but I would like to run the smallest diameter wheel possible without making the sidewall too big/soft.

What does the competition look like in EP vs. XP vs. DSP?

But the real question is why are BMW brakes so damn good???

Also, I plan on getting the car corner weighted after I get the BC coilovers, but I'm not sure if I should remove my passenger seat for racing to save weight or keep it in the car for balance; same for the spare tire for distribution. I do have the battery in the passenger side rear of the trunk, which has seemed to help.
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Old 11-01-2011, 06:22 AM
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Tire sizes will limit your choices and you need to work around that. Best practice is wheel width=tread width. When I started testing R-comps I went 245/45/16 on 8.5" Kosei front, 225/50 on 7.5" rear. Close to stock gearing, good front grip, mild understeer. 45 sidewall seemed fine as these things are stiffer than any street tire compared. Other than custom - 16" wide wheels are rare so you might be better off with the lighter 245/40/17 and 225/45 combo on 17x8.5 or 17x9 wheels (or both).

Keep the pass seat in case instructors or newbies want rides. I even started running with the spare and 1/2 tank of gas to help balance the weight since power was plentiful. Our 11" OEM brakes are economy at best. The BMW's 13" front's are 35% larger to start (as is my Saab).

Local EP and XP competition will always be different around the country. Those are hardcore classes faster than even ASP. Here's the slower EP class driver last year at Lincoln. Is this really where you want to compete?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpJbw2V2cc0
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Old 11-01-2011, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by BEJAY1 View Post
Tire sizes will limit your choices and you need to work around that. Best practice is wheel width=tread width. When I started testing R-comps I went 245/45/16 on 8.5" Kosei front, 225/50 on 7.5" rear. Close to stock gearing, good front grip, mild understeer. 45 sidewall seemed fine as these things are stiffer than any street tire compared. Other than custom - 16" wide wheels are rare so you might be better off with the lighter 245/40/17 and 225/45 combo on 17x8.5 or 17x9 wheels (or both).

Keep the pass seat in case instructors or newbies want rides. I even started running with the spare and 1/2 tank of gas to help balance the weight since power was plentiful. Our 11" OEM brakes are economy at best. The BMW's 13" front's are 35% larger to start (as is my Saab).

Local EP and XP competition will always be different around the country. Those are hardcore classes faster than even ASP. Here's the slower EP class driver last year at Lincoln. Is this really where you want to compete?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpJbw2V2cc0

Oh god, I don't want any part of EP! Time to start looking for a stage 1 LTB....

Keep in mind that I have the 13" Cobra rotors, so we have the same sized rotors and roughly the same compound pads. Could it all just be in the programming of the ABS system?
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Old 11-07-2011, 07:41 PM
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congrats on the class season win Nick (not that I'm surprised the way you've been driving all year). And you're dead right....I have just enough points to have clinched X2 class for the season, and nothing sounded more miserable than being out at that crappy little lot in the near-freezing sleet, so I stayed in my warm garage and worked on the rallycross car all day

your X3 season win is more impressive than my X2 class win for sure. My class was weak this season and some of the regular fast guys didn't make it to many events so I basically won with a bunch of 2nd place finishes at most of the events I attended (while I'm pretty sure you pulled of a few 1st place days).

We'll see what I do next season. If I get the camber plates, I'll probably run some events, at least at the good lots. Not going to plan on a full season next year, since I suspect that once I start rallycrossing the e30 I'm going to be addicted to that, lol. But we'll see.

I think you should buy Gabe's old 3rd gen, put the stock suspension back on, and come rallycrossing with me
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Old 11-07-2011, 07:43 PM
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also in case it wasn't previously mentioned - Nick let me drive his car after we did his battery relocate, to feel the panhard bar setup out back. And DAMN that is an amazing difference. I think if I had that setup on my 5th gen, I might not have sold it nearly as soon as I did, because it is so much more responsive than the stock suspension setup...
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Old 11-15-2011, 10:32 AM
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interesting thread, love the video at both angles roof and rear driver door.

I am curious to know your impressions of the engine torque link from your point of view. How is it?
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Old 11-19-2011, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by irish44j View Post
congrats on the class season win Nick (not that I'm surprised the way you've been driving all year). And you're dead right....I have just enough points to have clinched X2 class for the season, and nothing sounded more miserable than being out at that crappy little lot in the near-freezing sleet, so I stayed in my warm garage and worked on the rallycross car all day

your X3 season win is more impressive than my X2 class win for sure. My class was weak this season and some of the regular fast guys didn't make it to many events so I basically won with a bunch of 2nd place finishes at most of the events I attended (while I'm pretty sure you pulled of a few 1st place days).

We'll see what I do next season. If I get the camber plates, I'll probably run some events, at least at the good lots. Not going to plan on a full season next year, since I suspect that once I start rallycrossing the e30 I'm going to be addicted to that, lol. But we'll see.

I think you should buy Gabe's old 3rd gen, put the stock suspension back on, and come rallycrossing with me
Honestly, I didn't really have any reliable competition throughout the whole season, but thank you. There were the S2000s that gave me a little trouble early on, but after they stopped showing up I pretty much had X3 to myself. I had two first place finishes in my car and four 2nd place finishes, so it was a pretty good season.

I hope you get those camber plates for next year as I plan on joining you in X2 with some A6s Since you won X2 you will get that nice discount again, so that should be enough incentive to come!

If I do rallycross I think I would have to step up to a RWD platform.....325 E30....Miata....something old and light....

And yes, the panhard rod is awesome. Just wait until I get some coilovers and camber plates

Originally Posted by Prophecy99
I am curious to know your impressions of the engine torque link from your point of view. How is it?
Well I have the ES poly motor mounts, so I don't think it had as much effect as it would on a car with stock mounts. I can still induce wheel hop, but I think it's a little better than it was before.

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Old 11-19-2011, 02:11 PM
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I also got a chance to run with the Potomac Porsche club on 11/5 at the Bowie stadium. It's a tight lot with a lot of elevation changes and some curbing that you have to be careful of. There were two loops in the track, and most runs were in the 65+ second range. I was in the non-Porsche non-R comp class and ended up third 0.1 second behind a fully built Evo with 400+ whp and an SCCA national champion in his Civic hatch on R1Rs.

Here are the RESULTS

After every run I was getting comments about being so fast for such a big car, and after the event two 911TT owners came up to me and asked why I was less than a second slower than they were. It was nice

There was a bad accident however, as a Boxster owner took a sweeper too fast, spun, and went backwards over some curbing in the middle of the track, snapping his front driver side 5 spoke wheel at the hub and his LCA. It was pretty bad and set us back about an hour. I've never seen anything like it.

Here's a video!


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Old 11-20-2011, 05:53 PM
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So the more I look around, the more it looks like I will need 17x9s to be competitive in DSP......what are the odds I can squeeze in the 275/40/17 A6s on this car? I already have the rear fenders rolled, and I will be raising up the suspension and will have more clearance with the coilovers than I do now with the Konis/Eibachs. I wonder how bad they will rub if I never turn them full-lock.

****
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Old 11-21-2011, 06:39 AM
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I tried fitting Kumho 265/45/16's a while back onto 8.5 wheels with a 37 offset. I can't remember though if that was combined with a 15mm spacer or not. I got inside rub against the 2.5" diam coilover spring no matter the ride height. Offset calc's suggest you'd need a 15-30 offset for a 9" wheel to clear the inside. Start rolling or cutting your fenders now for consideration into DSP (new FSP)
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Old 11-21-2011, 10:53 AM
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nice vid !! like the angle it was taken from
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Old 11-22-2011, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by 95maxrider View Post
I hope you get those camber plates for next year as I plan on joining you in X2 with some A6s Since you won X2 you will get that nice discount again, so that should be enough incentive to come!
.
Since there will be new "management" (the same as the previous guys) next year for NCC:

1. IDK if they'll give the discount to season winners again. I hear that the club actually lost money on autocross this year due to lousy attendance (due to that stupid old dominion lot, I bet). Either way, I won't run enough events to make it worth it

2. They've been asking about changes/suggestions and I suggested that they just combine the 4 current classes into 3 street tire classes (since X1 and X2 were about the same times all season anyhow), and make the 4th class just for the r-comp'ed cars.

Because when it comes down to it, r-comps are WAY more of an autocross upgrade than having a turbo or rotary. A civic on R-comps can whoop an STi on street tires 95% of the time.
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Old 11-23-2011, 09:58 AM
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good to know about RComps. I also never thought of Josh as a smoker.
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