AFR conditioning and an intake = FTW.

SAE
233 hp
220 ft/lbs




Next on list
1.) Better intake design.
2.) AFPR, Ghetto timing advance
3. 100 octane
4.) UDP, (been in my trunk for about a year now, maybe I should install it)

I played with it every way from Sunday and it seems to like that set-up. I was on 91 octane. . I went too lean on one run, and it didn't like it. Better fuel + leaner AFR will helpfully get me a touch higher numeros. New appointment within a few more weeks.

I got some plans for the evening, but I have some Cipher logs to go along with these.

 

Good job mang.

 

There seems to be a problem with my email, I don't see an email with your runfiles anywhere.....

 

I'll send them tomorrow. Me= out of town.

Seems as if the fuel issue was really holding me back. Couple of runs I saw a huge dip in power due to the lean afr. One thing though, the SAFC didn't hemorrhage, so that was a (+).

MAF logs vs HP/RPM look to be interesting. IAT's were in the 90-100*F range.

Even w/ my Z33 injectors, I don't need to take much fuel out. I 'blame' TS for that. But maybe an AFPR will remedy this.

Corr%'s didn't exceed more than 4% (+/-). I switched back from -3% --> +4% over a couple hundred RPM, and the power curve freaked.

It was quite fun. Also compared my runs w/an 03 Z33, curves were identical. Z had race cats and some modded intake shtuff.

Things in the upper 6k's seem to be suffering from my exhaust set-up, but, I'll trade off a few hp's for the mellow tone I have.

My last 233 was on pure 100 octane, so, there's power to be had from that, and these runs show my best and worst.

No intake (stock airbox) and then the last, highest, run was the average of the 5 I did.

Back to the drawing board on the intake. I have a plan, so that can be taken care of quick and easily after a quick trip to HD or Lowes.

 

I'm not impressed.

 

Me neither, but it's a start.

 

tq seems low?

 

Well, i was more impressed at the peak HP @ 6300 RPM thing than anything else. Was the HP peak higher last time?

 

My best is 233, ever. But last time, on race fuel, the overall curve was stronger, but it went dead after 5600 (peak).

Here's my previous best vs this one.

Also, no one really mentioned the fact that I have a lof RPM(I'm an auto) resolution


Previous best. Race fuel FTW.




And here's my 1st run ever. I couldn't dyno worth ****. lol

 

Yea i was wondering how you pulled that off...

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot Mike Alpha Tango Echo. You sure your VTC's are working?



n00bert....

 

2nd gear in A33B = FTW. I think it's because Nissan didn't want them mofuggin old people having a stroke when said gear down shifted.

They are, verified by Cipher. 2nd gear does seem to lose a little down low(tq, vs 3rd gear) But the curve is smoother, and doesn't get me as nervous (13.7 AFR @ 6750, 130mph+ ) Honestly though, that 100 octane really does help. I'm trying to boast my theory, and hopefully in a week, I'll have another set of runfiles to back this said theory w/ timing logs.



Ya, Floored it @ 60 MPH, shifted into 3rd, had some lock up tq converter status.

I'm looking for a larger air filter, and am going to get rid of all said reducers and such in the intake line and have something a little better for massive RPM breathing.

 

For some creepy reason, my AFR data look better (flatter) than this DJ data ...

But these are my runs today.

 

You really need 100 octane? From what I've seen we can run full timing advance on both VQ30's and 35's at 93/94 octane. Race gas no helpee, only burn more slowly. Ask Jime, he'll tell you the same thing based on his dyno testing.

And IIRC you're at a higher altitude = less dense air so even less risk of detonation. So if you're getting more power out of octane then I'd wonder if you're getting timing too advanced/pulled by the KS normally on pump gas...

 

For some reason, higher octane really helps me.

My UNC #'s are ~ 190.

In fact, as you stated, I run much less risk of detonation, but, when I went lean,I did lose power( large dip/detonation) so, that means I could tune more lean and get more power w/beautiful fuel, but that is yet to be determined at this point.

Thanks for the input Dan D.

 

Now that I think about it we've probably talked about this on PM haven't we.

Well I dunno, something just seems a bit fishy to me, I mean I would think you'd be able to run the same/lower octane than the rest of us... Good job on getting the peak up to 6300 though.

 

What I need to do is log some air usage(gm/s) parameters and see how lean I can go using this stuff (better octane) before I dyno again.

This way, it can be seen/noted/documented just how much it affects engine efficiency.

I'm thinking of tuning rather aggressively (14.0 - 14.2) and logging/noting how it affects gm/s #'s.

 

And this time you had the Z33 VTC maps and last time you didn't right?

 

That's right.

My power curve was identical to another Z33. I had a bit more after 6300 than he did, but under the curve, they were identical (+/- 0.5%)

 

Previous best. Race fuel FTW.




[/QUOTE]

Ok, So I'm looking at your previous best dyno, and my current (non corrected STD, no runfiles FTL)...

(these are from my ubber eyeballing guestimations- ricer math , so give or take 3whp for the #s, and +/- 7WHP for the Diff due to different correction factors, etc... I dont care so much to compare your power to my power, since the #s are not on the same correction, Im just comparing the shape of the power curve)

RPM= You/ Me/ Diff (Me vs You)
3750= 155/132/ -23
4000= 166/158/ -8
4500= 187/198/ +11
5000= 217/221/ +4
5500= 233/236/ +3
6000= 227/231/ +4
6500= 210/209/ -1

I would say that due to your ECU's timing, that explains the power difference below 4000. It would be great if the shift_control device that Grey99Max and Streetz use could work on the 5.5 gens (could it? hmmmm ) so you could actually be able to dyno from lower RPMs.

At 4500 I have more power, but thats probably due to the amount of SAFC "timing advance" at that RPM, that's my richest point so it has -20% cor.

How much timing do I have? I'll find out next week. My collegue has a dataloger device. I just need to rig up a cigarette lighter again (currently using that hole for engine start button [weeeerd]) so he can power up his laptop.

I think that after 5k we're pretty even. You held power on that setup slightly better than me closer to redline, most likely due to VCTs' fully retarding the intake cams at that range.

You have an SSIM (or SSIM "equivalent" like me) correct? My previous dyno at redline I had ~180WHP, SSIM and catback and now redline (different dyno so different correction, but still) ~210WHP.

Congrats on the #s tho, and the new setup. Must run like a beast on the highways with long straight roads :-D

 

So, you're looking at my previous best?

Nope, my previous, which you're comparing to, was prior to said manifold mod.

I may, haven't looked into it yet.


In for the results.

I hated my power up there pre manifold mod. I gained 40+whp with that and other mods from 6300 - 6550. As can be seen by the graph, I was @ 191 @6400 with ONLY headers, now I'm @ 231 @ 6400.

Not in my previous best which you're comparing to.

Like I said, with all my uber advancements I was able to gain 40 whp @ 6550 vs my 1st run w/ only headers as my mod. See, the thing is, my previous best (210 @ 6500) was with the stock mani. So, perhaps you may have a bottleneck somewhere. But, your logs might tell a big story.

She sure does. Currently working an getting that peak higher value wise and even more to the right, if possible. Work commute everyday is 50 mi and 65% is all highway FTMFW.

 

Yea I was comparing to the previous best. Damn man, so that was with stock IM... that hurts me, LOL.

My top end will never be as great as a 5.5 gen's, as I dont have VCTs to retard my intake cams up there. But I didnt think it was THAT much of a difference. My SSIM on a 5spd matches your stock IM results on an auto.. ouch, lol. Perhaps some long tube headeers will assist.

Ok so your greater power on the midrange relative to mine is from the ECUs higher timing AND functioning VI.

Siiiiiiigh... I wasnt going to mod my car anymore, just fix it and save up for the next car. Now you have me concidering headers and more SAFC "timing advance" to see what I can get up there in the RPMs , lol

 

Actually, w/ VTC's disconnected, thre isnt much difference since the signal pulse ends @ 6200 RPM ish.
Check this thread/post for reference:
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=475914&page=4

So, in theory, this dyno might prove that something is bottlenecking your set-up. You should be able to hold power longer than that, even using A32 electronics. You have a SAFC I, correct? I'm not sure if the option is available for you, or the next time you plan on dynoing, but this might possibly be an avenue you may want to try. Or, It may in fact be the exhaust(header) set-up. My exhaust consists of this with the stock A33B rear to finish it off. It will be interesting once you get those timing logs. If possible, you should try and get gm/s (MAF flow) logs as well.

 

Hybrid 3.5 swap cam timing ≠ VTC cam timing at full retard so that comparison's invalid.

 

So then, what does that mean for 95BLK? SR's VTC'less dyno is not at full retard(-4 -6) but @ 0, since said cam phasers are null (unplugged)? Correct? Or am I in left field...or am I that far off into the parking lot playing in traffic?

Should he have drilled said cams with respect to this (your) thread? http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=506342

 

I wouldnt want to use a bigger MAF housing, because then I would use less correction on the SAFC, and that would in turn reduce my "timing advance". An EU is out of the question at the moment, so SAFC ghetto timing advance is the only method I can use for now.

As far as my resonator, WSP put an 18" spiral lovered core. I didnt think much of it when i looked at it. I doubt it has an effect big enough to worry about, but it would make sense that the louvers WOULD affect flow to a point. I would change it but it wouldnt be a priority to me. At the moment Im looking into headers as next mod... sometime over the summer. As well as more ghetto timing advance

 

But, you must not have read my large MAF thread thoroughly, or, just did not understand.

You see, using a Q45 IN and your car out, it will make so that you are @ 0 corrections (essentially as if you were 'stock') So you would still be taking away % because it is just like you were at square one, prior to said MAF mod rich. I needed to add 25%+ BEFORE I changed the settings, after I changed teh settings, I was exactly as I was before. Perhaps the SAFCI doesn't have this feature though.

FWIW, I saw an increase of a few % and gm/s AND my gm/s peaked further (6400 vs 6200) Negligible, yes, but for me, it's data, usable data.

 

OOOOOO ok now i get you. It was that IN/OUT that threw me off when I read the thread. Ok I get it now that I read it again. That in conbination with more "timing advance" and headers should be interesting. I'll look into doing that MAF mod, thank you sir.

 

Just noticed everything and I am seriously scratching my head here. I know we use the same dyno machine because I have been reading your threads.

It's weird how you are only getting 233 out of your car and you also did the IM mod. I have yet to do this mod + my car's weight I SHOULD be (in theory) be putting down less numbers than you and I still have yet to get the TS ECU.

Do you think you would have gained more hp with the intake on the maf than stock airbox setup? I really hope I am not putting out less numbers than you on my next dyno run. I seriously want to do the IM mod this weekend if time permits. Are you losing power some where?

 

lee, the cars weight means nothing on a dyno. Means alot at the track, its worthless for a dyno. If it did, people would gut their interiors for dynos, lol.

lee, DO IT! do the IM mod, you wont regret it, lol

 

The numbers at the right side of the tach are impressive. I'm making 228 @ stock redline. I only know of one other auto that can claim that. Next time I dyno, I'm going to play with race fuel, maybe it will help, maybe not. Also, on a Dynojet, a car's weight does not matter at all.


Only way to find out is dyno again Strange thing is, part throttle driving is greatly improved with the maf thing. Also, my intake isn't set -up optimally. A lot of 70mm - > 82mm transitions FTL.

I wont take this as a downfall, I'll just improve and accessorize as needed

I'll be going again in about a week w/ a few more items done.

 

As you can see, I am pretty clueless when it comes to correction factors + SAFC II and dyno chart readings. I haven't really sat down and really go over figures here.

I wish I had my run files from the dyno shop so I can compare it with others.

 

Comparing dynos and AFR is hard when you have a catalytic converter. Typically, these things like to be quite lean. (close to 14.0:1 AFR) But, your ca is altering your readings making you think you're leaner than you really are. I noticed this before and after my test pipe. Now I have a wb to give me readings 24/7, or, whenever I'm diving my car.

This is a good link, not sure if you've seen it yet, but it might ehlp you better understand DJ248's. :
http://forums.maxima.org/showpost.ph...9&postcount=19

What you want to do to 'tune' is see what AFR gives the best torque. As I said earlier, I've found (through research on here and some of my own personal dynos) that these 3.5's like to be quite lean (compared to what other tuners shoot for, i.e 12.8 - 13.2)

I would get a hold of that shop and have them either email those runfiles to you, or take a thumbdrive and save the files on it. Most shops keep a record of ALL runfiles on their DJ computer, so you may be in luck.

Keep in mind that manifold will shift your powerband to the right. For me it's better because I do tons of highway driving.

You should check to see what your SAFCII settings are right now. (RPM/Corr%) This way we could see/determine if you may in fact be advancing some timing a little if you have a lot of (-) values.

 

Great info NmexMax -

I just got a chance to read through this. I will pm you my values when I get a chance. Thanks...

 

Hey .. I dynoed at 120kws with mevi @5300rpm and POD... Just went to stock again 2hrs after dyno.. do you think that will affect things much.. like make the MEVI activation point less optimal?