Synthetic vs. Regular motor oil
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Banned
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 376
Synthetic vs. Regular motor oil
Here's my dilemma... I've always been under the assumption that synthetic oil was the best oil to use for your car. Period. Supposedly, it preserves engine parts the best, allows your engine to run smoother/"cooler" (lower temp), and actually gets you better gas mileage. W/ that mindset, I bought my 6th Gen, and @ about 1800 miles, drained the factory oil and switched to Mobil 1 synthetic...and didn't plan on looking back. So, when I went in for my first service interval (3750 miles), I bought/brought my own Mobil 1 oil and had the dealer use it for my oil change. Easy enough...so I thought. When my request was relayed to one of the more experienced svc managers, he advised me that "Nissan recommends" regular motor oil be used w/ their engines until around the 20K - 30K mile mark...after that point, synthetic oil is fine to use... He added that in his 20 yrs working w/ Nissan, he's never had any problems from engines using regular motor oil from the outset...
So, I really need you guys to comment on this topic and provide your inputs/opinions. I frequent many Nissan Maxima forums like this one and others and a lot of you seem to be following suit w/ what I've done. What gives???
1) Should I change back to regular motor oil and ride it out until the 20K - 30K mile mark, then go w/ synthetic? Or should I keep the synthetic oil in and continue to replace it like I'm doing now?
2) If I choose to use synthetic...what is the difference between this stuff I'm hearing of called "Amsoil" synthetic (I believe that's the name) and Mobil 1? Which is actually better...I've never heard of this stuff called Amsoil before joining the forums...
Any/all inputs would be greatly appreciated!!!
So, I really need you guys to comment on this topic and provide your inputs/opinions. I frequent many Nissan Maxima forums like this one and others and a lot of you seem to be following suit w/ what I've done. What gives???
1) Should I change back to regular motor oil and ride it out until the 20K - 30K mile mark, then go w/ synthetic? Or should I keep the synthetic oil in and continue to replace it like I'm doing now?
2) If I choose to use synthetic...what is the difference between this stuff I'm hearing of called "Amsoil" synthetic (I believe that's the name) and Mobil 1? Which is actually better...I've never heard of this stuff called Amsoil before joining the forums...
Any/all inputs would be greatly appreciated!!!
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,143
From: a meadow south of Atlanta
hofb99 - welcome to the decades-long ongoing debate on when to switch to synthetic oil.
If this question were posed to all 300,000,000 people across the country, you would find thousands who will not drive their new car off the dealer's lot until he switches the oil to synthetic. You would find millions who say Nissan engines don't need synthetic oil until at least 100,000 miles (if ever). Even different folks at the same Nissan dealer don't agree on what is best.
I have heard umpteen dozen versions of what is best, and, having run no lab tests to verify anything, I get the general feeling that synthetic oil is not necessarily the best way to go early in a car's life.
The few studies I have seen seem to indicate that when an engine is in its prime (first 80,000 miles for Nissan engines?) there seems to be little wear difference shown in ones that have been using normal oil and those that have run most of their miles on synthetic oil. As engines accumulate more mileage, tests seem to indicate they run better and wear less using synthetic.
One of the 'advantages' of synthetic oil is that it can prolong the interval between oil changes. That is true in theory (synthetic oil does not break down, even in severe driving conditions), but somewhat flawed in practice. Why?
Because one of the most important purposes of oil is to hold impurities, contaminants, and small particles that are not good for the pistons and walls. Although the synthetic oil is not breaking down, it is collecting all this stuff that needs to be removed from the engine at regular intervals. So, even though the synthetic oil is still in perfect condition, oil changes should still be made at reasonable intervals.
Having seen unbelievable horror stories of engine abuse in my long life, I greatly admire anyone who wants only the very best for his engine. In this case, it may be that using a good quality of regular oil and changing every 3,000 to 5,000 (depending on driving conditions) might be the best route for the first year or two.
If you do choose to switch to synthetic at 20,000 (as the Nissan fellow mentioned), I would then get the oil changed every 5,000 to 7,000 miles, depending on driving conditions, in order to get rid of the junk suspended in it.
I have never switched to synthetic before somewhere around 60,000 miles, but almost always change before 100,000. If I had to always switch at the same mileage, I would probably choose 70,000.
The last Maxima I let go had 206,000 miles on it, and the engine still ran fine. It may well have done fine with regular oil, but who knows?
CAVEAT: Do not ever mix synthetic and non-synthetic oil; I have read many times that this will not work, and could damage the engine.
At the time one switches to synthetic, it is OK to add the synthetic oil, even though trace amounts of regular oil inevitably remain in the engine. But do not ADD synthetic oil to a crankcase with a significant quantity of regular oil in it, or vice versa. Once I switch to synthetic, I place a sticker denoting this on the cap where oil is added to the engine, and never go back to regular oil.
As to brand, I have always used Mobil 1, as that was the only synthetic available many years ago, and I didn't bother to switch. Other synthetics may well be better, but I wouldn't know.
If this question were posed to all 300,000,000 people across the country, you would find thousands who will not drive their new car off the dealer's lot until he switches the oil to synthetic. You would find millions who say Nissan engines don't need synthetic oil until at least 100,000 miles (if ever). Even different folks at the same Nissan dealer don't agree on what is best.
I have heard umpteen dozen versions of what is best, and, having run no lab tests to verify anything, I get the general feeling that synthetic oil is not necessarily the best way to go early in a car's life.
The few studies I have seen seem to indicate that when an engine is in its prime (first 80,000 miles for Nissan engines?) there seems to be little wear difference shown in ones that have been using normal oil and those that have run most of their miles on synthetic oil. As engines accumulate more mileage, tests seem to indicate they run better and wear less using synthetic.
One of the 'advantages' of synthetic oil is that it can prolong the interval between oil changes. That is true in theory (synthetic oil does not break down, even in severe driving conditions), but somewhat flawed in practice. Why?
Because one of the most important purposes of oil is to hold impurities, contaminants, and small particles that are not good for the pistons and walls. Although the synthetic oil is not breaking down, it is collecting all this stuff that needs to be removed from the engine at regular intervals. So, even though the synthetic oil is still in perfect condition, oil changes should still be made at reasonable intervals.
Having seen unbelievable horror stories of engine abuse in my long life, I greatly admire anyone who wants only the very best for his engine. In this case, it may be that using a good quality of regular oil and changing every 3,000 to 5,000 (depending on driving conditions) might be the best route for the first year or two.
If you do choose to switch to synthetic at 20,000 (as the Nissan fellow mentioned), I would then get the oil changed every 5,000 to 7,000 miles, depending on driving conditions, in order to get rid of the junk suspended in it.
I have never switched to synthetic before somewhere around 60,000 miles, but almost always change before 100,000. If I had to always switch at the same mileage, I would probably choose 70,000.
The last Maxima I let go had 206,000 miles on it, and the engine still ran fine. It may well have done fine with regular oil, but who knows?
CAVEAT: Do not ever mix synthetic and non-synthetic oil; I have read many times that this will not work, and could damage the engine.
At the time one switches to synthetic, it is OK to add the synthetic oil, even though trace amounts of regular oil inevitably remain in the engine. But do not ADD synthetic oil to a crankcase with a significant quantity of regular oil in it, or vice versa. Once I switch to synthetic, I place a sticker denoting this on the cap where oil is added to the engine, and never go back to regular oil.
As to brand, I have always used Mobil 1, as that was the only synthetic available many years ago, and I didn't bother to switch. Other synthetics may well be better, but I wouldn't know.
Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 39
There are only 2 true synthetics on the market, if I'm not mistaken. Redline and Amsoil. Everything else that is advertised as "synthetic" is dyno based or petroleum based.
Many hi-performance cars such as corvette/porsche are shipped with synthetic oil. I wouldn't worry about putting it in the max, I did and early.
You can get Amsoil on the web, do a search.
Many hi-performance cars such as corvette/porsche are shipped with synthetic oil. I wouldn't worry about putting it in the max, I did and early.
You can get Amsoil on the web, do a search.
2004 Smoke
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 205
From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Nissan's own tips (from the NissanHelp site) states the following:
Synthetic motor oils can be a good choice for high output, turbocharged or supercharged engines, vehicles that are used for towing (especially during hot weather), or vehicles that are operated in extremely cold or hot climates.
Synthetic motor oils, though several times more expensive than mineral-based motor oils, can improve fuel economy and provide longer intervals between changes. They also provide instant lubrication on start-up.
Experts recommend changing the oil and oil filter in your vehicle every 3 months or 3,000 miles, (whichever comes first). It's a simple, inexpensive and essential way to maximize engine protection. Oil changes at 7,500 miles are usually too long an interval for most common driving conditions.
Synthetic motor oils can be a good choice for high output, turbocharged or supercharged engines, vehicles that are used for towing (especially during hot weather), or vehicles that are operated in extremely cold or hot climates.
Synthetic motor oils, though several times more expensive than mineral-based motor oils, can improve fuel economy and provide longer intervals between changes. They also provide instant lubrication on start-up.
Experts recommend changing the oil and oil filter in your vehicle every 3 months or 3,000 miles, (whichever comes first). It's a simple, inexpensive and essential way to maximize engine protection. Oil changes at 7,500 miles are usually too long an interval for most common driving conditions.
Important info about engine break in from the oil section.
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=221394
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=227996&page=2
"Actually it has been proven that VQ engines who switch to synthetic early (less than 3k) have had elevated levels of silicon and other wear metals, a possible sign of insufficient engine break-in. srbarnes4ever's oil anlayses in my oil spreadsheet immediately come to mind. There are a couple of other members with similar results as well."
for the fix
"Personally, I would switch to Castrol GTX dino oil for the next 3 oil changes. In addition, I would use the STP S6941 oil filter. After 20k, I would go to the Mobil SS oil and filter.
It's not *that* significant. It will only take a longer time for your silicon to fall back to "average" levels. Having higher levels of silicon can cause other wear metals to trend higher, but certainly nothing all that damaging."
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=221394
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=227996&page=2
"Actually it has been proven that VQ engines who switch to synthetic early (less than 3k) have had elevated levels of silicon and other wear metals, a possible sign of insufficient engine break-in. srbarnes4ever's oil anlayses in my oil spreadsheet immediately come to mind. There are a couple of other members with similar results as well."
for the fix
"Personally, I would switch to Castrol GTX dino oil for the next 3 oil changes. In addition, I would use the STP S6941 oil filter. After 20k, I would go to the Mobil SS oil and filter.
It's not *that* significant. It will only take a longer time for your silicon to fall back to "average" levels. Having higher levels of silicon can cause other wear metals to trend higher, but certainly nothing all that damaging."
I used synthetic in my last car (88 buick) after putting in a refurbished engine. My mechanic (my grandfater) did the work and swears by synthetic and its longevity. I only changed the oil (Mobil 1) once a year or longer. It ran great and still does.
So I asked the dealer about using it in my new Max. He recommended that I wait until after the first two oil changes but that I should still follow the changing schedule even if synthetic.
I think I will switch to synthetic eventually and change it between the 3750 and by 7000.
So I asked the dealer about using it in my new Max. He recommended that I wait until after the first two oil changes but that I should still follow the changing schedule even if synthetic.
I think I will switch to synthetic eventually and change it between the 3750 and by 7000.
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 249
Synthetic oil will not hurt anything if it is mixed with dino oil. Remember... there are synthetic blends out there based on minerals and forified with synthetic compounds. There are all kinds of tricks when it comes to lubrication. Mixing a quart of light weight synthetic with dino, adding a pint of ATF and on and on.
There isn't a huge advantage to it, but there are places were it does excell. The synthetics are stronger molecules, which will put up with more heat and will remove more debris from the engine. Lubrication and thickness wise there really isn't much of a difference as those have been standardized throughout the industry for consistancy.
Since syn's have more detergents and are better with heat displacement/break down, they have the ablilty to stay in the engine longer then a conventional oil. However, I don't run it any longer. The main benifit for me, is it's cleaning strength. The oil takes much longer to form carbon, and will pull out more debris, and that's what I want. I want the cleanest engine possible.
It is very common for people and companies to recomend a wait before the switch some say 500 miles some say 50,000. Take it with a grain of salt. Just remember, all oils that are API and SAE certified, have that for a reason... that reason is because they are proven not to cause damage to your engine.
There isn't a huge advantage to it, but there are places were it does excell. The synthetics are stronger molecules, which will put up with more heat and will remove more debris from the engine. Lubrication and thickness wise there really isn't much of a difference as those have been standardized throughout the industry for consistancy.
Since syn's have more detergents and are better with heat displacement/break down, they have the ablilty to stay in the engine longer then a conventional oil. However, I don't run it any longer. The main benifit for me, is it's cleaning strength. The oil takes much longer to form carbon, and will pull out more debris, and that's what I want. I want the cleanest engine possible.
It is very common for people and companies to recomend a wait before the switch some say 500 miles some say 50,000. Take it with a grain of salt. Just remember, all oils that are API and SAE certified, have that for a reason... that reason is because they are proven not to cause damage to your engine.
Banned
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 102
The three saloon discussions that you should never have are politics, religion and engine oil. You will never get agreement on any of these.
Synthetics are great after the engine seals are settled in place. This probably happens sometime between 5K and 15K miles, depending upon driving and environmental conditions.
Oils last in engines MUCH longer than the common recommended intervals. This is true for synthetics and mineral oils.
Consumer Reports did a test about a dozen years ago. They purchased about ten new GM built engines, disassembled them, measured the dimensions of the critical internal moving parts, reassembled and installed them in NYC taxis.
The taxis were then put to normal usage with mineral oils installed. They were then gradually pulled out of service with up to either 12 or 15K miles. The oil was not changed in any of the engines.
The engines were then disassembled and everything was measured again. No significant wear or sign of any damage was found. This includes the engines with the most miles (12 to 15K).
The oils were also measured for viscosity, etc. They were all in great usable condition.
I believe that you can still obtain this report from Consumer Reports. We waste a lot of oil in the world.
I change my oil/filter at about 7K miles or 6 months, whichever hits first. Major players like Amsoil suggest getting the oil changed at 6 months for very low mileage engines.
Check out the writeups of a knowledgable oil engineer, Cobra'03 at SVTPERFORMANCE.COM in the Terminator forum for '03/'04 Cobras. He's got great articles and references there.
Synthetics are great after the engine seals are settled in place. This probably happens sometime between 5K and 15K miles, depending upon driving and environmental conditions.
Oils last in engines MUCH longer than the common recommended intervals. This is true for synthetics and mineral oils.
Consumer Reports did a test about a dozen years ago. They purchased about ten new GM built engines, disassembled them, measured the dimensions of the critical internal moving parts, reassembled and installed them in NYC taxis.
The taxis were then put to normal usage with mineral oils installed. They were then gradually pulled out of service with up to either 12 or 15K miles. The oil was not changed in any of the engines.
The engines were then disassembled and everything was measured again. No significant wear or sign of any damage was found. This includes the engines with the most miles (12 to 15K).
The oils were also measured for viscosity, etc. They were all in great usable condition.
I believe that you can still obtain this report from Consumer Reports. We waste a lot of oil in the world.
I change my oil/filter at about 7K miles or 6 months, whichever hits first. Major players like Amsoil suggest getting the oil changed at 6 months for very low mileage engines.
Check out the writeups of a knowledgable oil engineer, Cobra'03 at SVTPERFORMANCE.COM in the Terminator forum for '03/'04 Cobras. He's got great articles and references there.
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 631
Originally Posted by lightonthehill
hofb99 - welcome to the decades-long ongoing debate on when to switch to synthetic oil.
Having seen unbelievable horror stories of engine abuse in my long life, I greatly admire anyone who wants only the very best for his engine. In this case, it may be that using a good quality of regular oil and changing every 3,000 to 5,000 (depending on driving conditions) might be the est route for the first year or two.
.
Having seen unbelievable horror stories of engine abuse in my long life, I greatly admire anyone who wants only the very best for his engine. In this case, it may be that using a good quality of regular oil and changing every 3,000 to 5,000 (depending on driving conditions) might be the est route for the first year or two.
.
Are you a mechanic by trade by any chance or are above experiences just personal observations. Just wondering..
Newbie - Just Registered
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1
This is from Mobil1.com.
Myth: You should break in your engine with conventional oil, then switch to Mobil 1.
Reality: You can start using Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ in new vehicles at any time, even in brand-new vehicles. In fact, Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ is original equipment (it is installed at the factory) in:
Chevrolet Corvette
All Porsche vehicles
Mercedes-Benz AMG vehicles
Dodge Viper
Ford Mustang Cobra R
All Aston Martin cars
One of the myths that persists about Mobil 1 is that new engines require a break-in period with conventional oil. Current engine manufacturing technology does not require this break-in period. As indicated by the decisions of the engineers who design these high-performance cars, Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ can be used in an engine from the day you drive the car off the showroom floor.
Myth: Using Mobil 1 will void my new-car warranty.
Reality: With the exception of the Mazda rotary engine (Mazda does not recommend any synthetic motor oils), Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ will not void new-car warranties. Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ exceeds the API and ILSAC motor oil service requirements of all new-car manufacturers, both import and domestic. If in doubt, always check your vehicle owner's manual or contact your vehicle's manufacturer.
Myth: You should break in your engine with conventional oil, then switch to Mobil 1.
Reality: You can start using Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ in new vehicles at any time, even in brand-new vehicles. In fact, Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ is original equipment (it is installed at the factory) in:
Chevrolet Corvette
All Porsche vehicles
Mercedes-Benz AMG vehicles
Dodge Viper
Ford Mustang Cobra R
All Aston Martin cars
One of the myths that persists about Mobil 1 is that new engines require a break-in period with conventional oil. Current engine manufacturing technology does not require this break-in period. As indicated by the decisions of the engineers who design these high-performance cars, Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ can be used in an engine from the day you drive the car off the showroom floor.
Myth: Using Mobil 1 will void my new-car warranty.
Reality: With the exception of the Mazda rotary engine (Mazda does not recommend any synthetic motor oils), Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ will not void new-car warranties. Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ exceeds the API and ILSAC motor oil service requirements of all new-car manufacturers, both import and domestic. If in doubt, always check your vehicle owner's manual or contact your vehicle's manufacturer.
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 376
Thanks you guys for all the awesome and informative responses! From what I'm hearing, it's pretty much an indifferent path of what I choose to take. No right or wrong, really... But being that I'm in Tucson, AZ (temperatures in the 3-digit range thru the summer), I'll opt to keep the Mobil 1 in since I run @ higher temps and it's very dusty/dirty out here. Don't really think it'll harm anything running Mobil 1 for now. 
Thanks again guys for your thorough responses!!! Knew I could count on you!
Thanks again guys for your thorough responses!!! Knew I could count on you!
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 865
OMG, if you run dino oil or synthetic oil you'll blow your engine!!!!!
Just kidding. All the information above is good info from my experience. Some people swear by synthetics, others by dino. Synthetics (Mobil 1) is factory fill for some very nice new cars. But so are dino oils.
You probably won't hurt your engine by running synthetic early in its life. But the same is probably true for running dino oil. There are just too many variables (and opinions) to say anything is absolute. The key is to keep up with routine maintenance (oil/filter changes) and run the proper viscosity oil for your driving conditions (AZ is hot. I'd run atleast a 10w30 in summer, but definitely not a 5w30). For what it's worth, here in Louisiana, I run Castrol GTX 10w30 all year long. I used to run Mobil 1 5w30, but had less than stellar oil analysis results with it that just didn't justify the cost. I believe it may be because the Mobil 1 5w30 was too thin for my driving conditions (not slamming Mobil 1, it's good oil, just saying it may have been too thin).
I'd suggest a few oil analysis before you make up your mind. Every engine wears differently, and an oil analysis will show exactly what is happening in YOUR engine with YOUR driving conditions. You can also check Bill's oil analysis spreadsheet to see trends with different oils/driving conditions that may be similar to yours.
Check out http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi for more info than you'd probably ever want to know about oil. Just keep in mind that some people there are blowing smoke. Some are die-hard "brand x" fans, while others swear by "brand y". Just like some people swear by Honda Accords, when we all know Maxima's rule....
Dave
Just kidding. All the information above is good info from my experience. Some people swear by synthetics, others by dino. Synthetics (Mobil 1) is factory fill for some very nice new cars. But so are dino oils.
You probably won't hurt your engine by running synthetic early in its life. But the same is probably true for running dino oil. There are just too many variables (and opinions) to say anything is absolute. The key is to keep up with routine maintenance (oil/filter changes) and run the proper viscosity oil for your driving conditions (AZ is hot. I'd run atleast a 10w30 in summer, but definitely not a 5w30). For what it's worth, here in Louisiana, I run Castrol GTX 10w30 all year long. I used to run Mobil 1 5w30, but had less than stellar oil analysis results with it that just didn't justify the cost. I believe it may be because the Mobil 1 5w30 was too thin for my driving conditions (not slamming Mobil 1, it's good oil, just saying it may have been too thin).
I'd suggest a few oil analysis before you make up your mind. Every engine wears differently, and an oil analysis will show exactly what is happening in YOUR engine with YOUR driving conditions. You can also check Bill's oil analysis spreadsheet to see trends with different oils/driving conditions that may be similar to yours.
Check out http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi for more info than you'd probably ever want to know about oil. Just keep in mind that some people there are blowing smoke. Some are die-hard "brand x" fans, while others swear by "brand y". Just like some people swear by Honda Accords, when we all know Maxima's rule....
Dave
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