Replace Brake fluid
01-12-2005, 07:22 AM
#1
Replace Brake fluid
Just wondering why there is not sticky on the brake fluid or if anybody changed the brake fluid. Is it not necessary to replace brake fluid throughout the life of a car ?!?
Is there a DIY on brake fluid replacement ?!? Or do we just follow the similar procedure as on Power steering fluid in Motorvate.
The manual says DOT3 brake fluid is what that shud be used.
Thanks.
Is there a DIY on brake fluid replacement ?!? Or do we just follow the similar procedure as on Power steering fluid in Motorvate.
The manual says DOT3 brake fluid is what that shud be used.
Thanks.
01-12-2005, 08:13 AM
#2
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Pleasanton,CA
Posts: 1,136
Originally Posted by flthere
Just wondering why there is not sticky on the brake fluid or if anybody changed the brake fluid. Is it not necessary to replace brake fluid throughout the life of a car ?!?
Is there a DIY on brake fluid replacement ?!? Or do we just follow the similar procedure as on Power steering fluid in Motorvate.
The manual says DOT3 brake fluid is what that shud be used.
Thanks.
Is there a DIY on brake fluid replacement ?!? Or do we just follow the similar procedure as on Power steering fluid in Motorvate.
The manual says DOT3 brake fluid is what that shud be used.
Thanks.
01-12-2005, 09:30 AM
#5
Originally Posted by Love_00_Max
The notion of not changing brake fluid throughout the life of car is on the web by misguided vehicle owners and I would think it is stupid to play with ur life and many others when the brakes fail. I know my cousin who didn't change his fluid and one fine morning the brake pedal floored. It is very important to change the brake fluid and Valvoline DOT3/DOT4 is great OTC brake fluid. I think 240000 miles is the recommended interval and would first remove the old fluid of the master cylinder, fill in new fluid, bleed the brakes (this removes the old fluid off the brake lines tooo) starting with the one farthest to the cylinder. (Also bleed it 3-4 times while filling up the master thereby doing a good job!!!). Enjoy.
Is it ok to replace the brake fluid in the master cylinder couple of times (to increase % of new fluid) without having to bleed the brakes ?
This I want to do just as a preventive measure, my brakes are just fine as of now. Thing is I can't stand out in chill weather here in Chicago and do all the stuff you suggested, moreover I don't have a garage.
Valvoline is the best then?!? Wonder why the car manual's maintenance does not have this brake fluid in the list when it's soo important.
I'm gonna do the PS liquid replacement as in motorvate, so I can do this brake thing too at the same.
01-12-2005, 09:41 AM
#6
The weather isn't that cold 
http://www.jatan.net/bleed.jpg
You can also search online or get a Haynes manual and it has directions on how to do it. I also need to do mine
http://www.jatan.net/bleed.jpg
You can also search online or get a Haynes manual and it has directions on how to do it. I also need to do mine
01-12-2005, 10:56 AM
#7
Originally Posted by JaTaN
The weather isn't that cold
http://www.jatan.net/bleed.jpg
You can also search online or get a Haynes manual and it has directions on how to do it. I also need to do mine
http://www.jatan.net/bleed.jpg
You can also search online or get a Haynes manual and it has directions on how to do it. I also need to do mine
Thanks for the instructions. Well, the weather is gonna be cold when I planned to do it which is the coming weekend
02-04-2005, 09:33 PM
#9
02-15-2005, 12:59 PM
#10
Member
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 53
Brake fluid maintenance
Brake fluid is critical to the overall performance due in part as time goes on even though the system is sealed, brake fluid is hygroscopic has an affinity for moisture and this dilutes the fluid and its abilities to operate at the various temp ranges and boiling points, additionally as dilution occurs the the moisture attacks the seals in the master cyclinder and the the calipers and erodes them thereby losing brake performance.
If you have ABS the risk are greater as moisture enters the this unit it'll clog the orifices within, causing some sludging as well, so a maintenance sched of 2yrs or 18k the fluid should be changed because of the ABS unit, otherwise the sched should be 2yrs 24k to keep the system healthy
This regiment was required among the VW rabbits and later vehicles. I believe this regiment is still required and has proven very successful additionally a master cyclinder would never be replaced nor calipers if this is adhered to.
Other vehicles as well recommend brake fluid changes if equipped with an ABS most people ignore the schedule and just happily drive until the unit is ruined. The big Brake chains never suggest or even bleed these cars with ABS units unless there changing calipers. Even when they change the brake pads the dont' follow the procedures outlined in doing so they just want to do it fast get it done, however if they employed the proper technique (outlined below) one would be able to avert a lot of problems that can plague the unit and cause failure
Recommended way is to close the rubber line open the bleeder unit and push the piston in to discharge the latent fluid so it will not rise back up into the master cyllinder and ABS unit, after fluid is expelled then close the bleeder let the fluid in the master fill the piston and no air will come thru
Usually I will suck out the fluid from the master cylinder first then refilll it to were the original level was or little higher that way new fluid will flll the piston after I've expelled the fluid from the bleeder whilst first pinching off the brake hose. This procedure should be employed either way no matter if it is ABS or NON ABS. Keeps system healthy
If you have ABS the risk are greater as moisture enters the this unit it'll clog the orifices within, causing some sludging as well, so a maintenance sched of 2yrs or 18k the fluid should be changed because of the ABS unit, otherwise the sched should be 2yrs 24k to keep the system healthy
This regiment was required among the VW rabbits and later vehicles. I believe this regiment is still required and has proven very successful additionally a master cyclinder would never be replaced nor calipers if this is adhered to.
Other vehicles as well recommend brake fluid changes if equipped with an ABS most people ignore the schedule and just happily drive until the unit is ruined. The big Brake chains never suggest or even bleed these cars with ABS units unless there changing calipers. Even when they change the brake pads the dont' follow the procedures outlined in doing so they just want to do it fast get it done, however if they employed the proper technique (outlined below) one would be able to avert a lot of problems that can plague the unit and cause failure
Recommended way is to close the rubber line open the bleeder unit and push the piston in to discharge the latent fluid so it will not rise back up into the master cyllinder and ABS unit, after fluid is expelled then close the bleeder let the fluid in the master fill the piston and no air will come thru
Usually I will suck out the fluid from the master cylinder first then refilll it to were the original level was or little higher that way new fluid will flll the piston after I've expelled the fluid from the bleeder whilst first pinching off the brake hose. This procedure should be employed either way no matter if it is ABS or NON ABS. Keeps system healthy
02-15-2005, 01:39 PM
#11
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,594
When ya'll say brake master cylinder you mean simply the single reservoir in the engine bay, right (just in front of the driver)? There also seems to be a small cylindrical fluid reservoir closer to the firewall, and a little lower...I'd always wondered what that was.
In any case is this difficult? Also, what's the capacity for brake fluid and how much do we need to do this?
In any case is this difficult? Also, what's the capacity for brake fluid and how much do we need to do this?
02-15-2005, 03:52 PM
#12
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Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 53
Originally Posted by SkoorbMax
When ya'll say brake master cylinder you mean simply the single reservoir in the engine bay, right (just in front of the driver)? There also seems to be a small cylindrical fluid reservoir closer to the firewall, and a little lower...I'd always wondered what that was.
In any case is this difficult? Also, what's the capacity for brake fluid and how much do we need to do this?
In any case is this difficult? Also, what's the capacity for brake fluid and how much do we need to do this?
Yes you are correct, the smaller reservior closer to the firewall is the slave cylinder which actuates the clutch or could be called clutch cylinder this requires bleeding periodically as well or the slave cylinder will more than likely give it up as well.
02-15-2005, 03:55 PM
#13
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,594
Originally Posted by gsleve
Yes you are correct, the smaller reservior closer to the firewall is the slave cylinder which actuates the clutch or could be called clutch cylinder this requires bleeding periodically as well or the slave cylinder will more than likely give it up as well.
02-15-2005, 04:04 PM
#14
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Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 53
Originally Posted by SkoorbMax
When ya'll say brake master cylinder you mean simply the single reservoir in the engine bay, right (just in front of the driver)? There also seems to be a small cylindrical fluid reservoir closer to the firewall, and a little lower...I'd always wondered what that was.
In any case is this difficult? Also, what's the capacity for brake fluid and how much do we need to do this?
In any case is this difficult? Also, what's the capacity for brake fluid and how much do we need to do this?
The procedure for bleeding is simple all you need is a one man bleeder tool can be found at pepboys or some other discount auto place, I've been using these for 12 years never ran into a problem, usually it's made up of a small tube at the end of the tube is the unit which houses a spring and a small ball bearing. When you place the tube on the end of the bleeder and crack it open and pump the brake you'll need something to catch the expelled brake fluid, as this procedure occurs upon the pedal coming back up the check valve is closed off by the spring and the small ball bearing preventing air from entering very easy.
To ensure air doesn't enter through the bleeder wrap a small amount of teflon tape counterclockwise around the bleeder this serves another purpose as well facilitates easier use of the bleeder in the event one has to open or remove the bleeder.
Be sure only pump the pedal half way and not to the floor reason being is that the piston in the master cylinder will protrude to far into the cylinder bore were carbon build up occures, and upon retracting the seal on the piston rubs against the carboneous area thus wearing off some of the seal preventing a secure seal thereby causing internal leak within the master cylinder.
As a suggestion place a small 1x3 or 2x4 underneath the pedal to prevent you from going to far to the floor.
02-16-2005, 07:39 AM
#15
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,594
Originally Posted by gsleve
The procedure for bleeding is simple all you need is a one man bleeder tool can be found at pepboys or some other discount auto place, I've been using these for 12 years never ran into a problem, usually it's made up of a small tube at the end of the tube is the unit which houses a spring and a small ball bearing. When you place the tube on the end of the bleeder and crack it open and pump the brake you'll need something to catch the expelled brake fluid, as this procedure occurs upon the pedal coming back up the check valve is closed off by the spring and the small ball bearing preventing air from entering very easy.
To ensure air doesn't enter through the bleeder wrap a small amount of teflon tape counterclockwise around the bleeder this serves another purpose as well facilitates easier use of the bleeder in the event one has to open or remove the bleeder.
Be sure only pump the pedal half way and not to the floor reason being is that the piston in the master cylinder will protrude to far into the cylinder bore were carbon build up occures, and upon retracting the seal on the piston rubs against the carboneous area thus wearing off some of the seal preventing a secure seal thereby causing internal leak within the master cylinder.
As a suggestion place a small 1x3 or 2x4 underneath the pedal to prevent you from going to far to the floor.
To ensure air doesn't enter through the bleeder wrap a small amount of teflon tape counterclockwise around the bleeder this serves another purpose as well facilitates easier use of the bleeder in the event one has to open or remove the bleeder.
Be sure only pump the pedal half way and not to the floor reason being is that the piston in the master cylinder will protrude to far into the cylinder bore were carbon build up occures, and upon retracting the seal on the piston rubs against the carboneous area thus wearing off some of the seal preventing a secure seal thereby causing internal leak within the master cylinder.
As a suggestion place a small 1x3 or 2x4 underneath the pedal to prevent you from going to far to the floor.
In any case how many master cylinder's full of fluid should I go through per side? I know to drain out from the master as much as possible, then replace with new and then bleed until it's almost empty. Should I repeat that twice per side? Three times? Once?
Thanks!
02-16-2005, 03:38 PM
#16
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Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 53
Yes the vacum method works well however some have found that air escapes pass the bleeder screw again teflon tape would inhibit this, its up to you 2 refills would work well one per side, if you go half way thats fine as well, you must realize there is not as much fluid in the lines or calipers as you may think.
If you suck/vacum as much out of the cylinder maybe a mighty vac or oil extractor even a turkey baster this aids greatly in that the master cylinder isnt emptied as often
Cycling through the master per side would suffice. Instead of each wheel
If you suck/vacum as much out of the cylinder maybe a mighty vac or oil extractor even a turkey baster this aids greatly in that the master cylinder isnt emptied as often
Cycling through the master per side would suffice. Instead of each wheel
02-16-2005, 03:55 PM
#17
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Pleasanton,CA
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Originally Posted by SkoorbMax
So this process, similar to that spelled out in Haynes, requires pressing the brake. Is it possible to do it without pressing the brake by using a vaccum tool? I think that's what some people use, right...?
In any case how many master cylinder's full of fluid should I go through per side? I know to drain out from the master as much as possible, then replace with new and then bleed until it's almost empty. Should I repeat that twice per side? Three times? Once?
Thanks!
In any case how many master cylinder's full of fluid should I go through per side? I know to drain out from the master as much as possible, then replace with new and then bleed until it's almost empty. Should I repeat that twice per side? Three times? Once?
Thanks!
I prefer to fill master completely and bleed the old fluid till the fluid level has reached the bottom of the master....
Fill master completely again, go to the next....
02-18-2005, 12:49 PM
#20
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Posts: 1,594
Hey, I'm gonna do it this weekend. I see people recommending speed bleeders (I think that's the name!). They are just one-man bleeders, and seem to be the same as the stuff at autozone. They're no different, right? Just a spring and a BB? In any case, are they likely to be available locally?
02-18-2005, 06:50 PM
#21
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Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 53
When I meant be each side was cycle through the master cynlinder both rear and front this would mean you would empty the master right to the low mark and refill if you consider there are only 4cc to 10cc within the lines one would not have to empty the master and refill each wheel. The trick is to vacum out the master first, and then place a hose on the bleeder screw, crack open the bleeder then use a C clamp on the caliper while the brakes attached, this will push the latent fluid out of piston bore.
Close the bleeder and push the brake pedal half way a couple of times this will allow the new fluid to fill the piston bore and then you can bleed the lines only a couple of times this eliminates have to cycle through the master so many times.
Close the bleeder and push the brake pedal half way a couple of times this will allow the new fluid to fill the piston bore and then you can bleed the lines only a couple of times this eliminates have to cycle through the master so many times.
02-20-2005, 07:17 PM
#23
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I got the $7 one-man bottle and tubing from autozone and did one of the cars this afternoon. I ended up going through a quart of brake fluid, to ensure it was all out in all areas. That was far more than I needed to go through, but anyway all is now well. Thanks
I think I may do a quick how-to with some nice pictures when I do the next car. I know it's an easy job, but for those who don't know how to do it pictures can be of great assistance, if for no other reason than to increase pre-job confidence. I know many of us have had motorvate.ca to thank in that regard.
I think I may do a quick how-to with some nice pictures when I do the next car. I know it's an easy job, but for those who don't know how to do it pictures can be of great assistance, if for no other reason than to increase pre-job confidence. I know many of us have had motorvate.ca to thank in that regard.
03-02-2005, 11:08 AM
#25
Originally Posted by SkoorbMax
I think I may do a quick how-to with some nice pictures when I do the next car. I know it's an easy job, but for those who don't know how to do it pictures can be of great assistance, if for no other reason than to increase pre-job confidence. I know many of us have had motorvate.ca to thank in that regard.
03-04-2005, 10:41 AM
#26
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,594
I did my 00 last night. I didn't do a how-to, because in fact there was very little to take a picture of. I took 1 hour 15 min and this time I wanted to try it without even lifting the car--which I did. There is no need to jack it or take the wheels off!
06-10-2005, 11:31 AM
#27
Jatan:
When it says "Right", does that mean passenger.... or driver side?
When it says "Right", does that mean passenger.... or driver side?
Originally Posted by JaTaN
The weather isn't that cold
http://www.jatan.net/bleed.jpg
You can also search online or get a Haynes manual and it has directions on how to do it. I also need to do mine
http://www.jatan.net/bleed.jpg
You can also search online or get a Haynes manual and it has directions on how to do it. I also need to do mine
06-10-2005, 12:52 PM
#28
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Pleasanton,CA
Posts: 1,136
Originally Posted by ardika
Jatan:
When it says "Right", does that mean passenger.... or driver side?
When it says "Right", does that mean passenger.... or driver side?
06-10-2005, 10:09 PM
#33
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 888
i feel its better and funner w/ 2 people, can give u a hand at the wheels and what not. i have got to do mines, im going w/ the valvoline syn one. i bought like 3-4 cans. do u guys know if i need more?
i might replace my pads then flush it, so i save fluid.
i might replace my pads then flush it, so i save fluid.
06-14-2005, 10:27 AM
#34
Brakes have to be bled at the wheel cylinders first, and they should be bled in pairs depending on how your dual brake lines are set up. I think ours are crossed, so that means you would bleed the right front passenger side/left rear driver side, then the opposite (or vice versa).
It does not matter on which side you start.
Most importantly is to keep your reservoir covered to avoid letting in any air during the bleeding.
It does not matter on which side you start.
Most importantly is to keep your reservoir covered to avoid letting in any air during the bleeding.
10-02-2005, 02:21 PM
#35
I changed my front rotors and pads today. After that I bled all four brakes.
Of course, I did not read up, and did not do it in order of opposing corners. I used a vacuum pump to suck the fluid out at the bleeders (I dont have anyone available to pump the brake pedal for me.)
So I went according to what the instructions say; start at the wheel closest to the cylinder (driver front) then passenger front, then driver rear, then passenger rear. I ran the fluid out the bleeders for quite awhile to make sure fresh fluid was in the brake lines.
After doing all this, I took the car for a ride, and the pedal felt even more spongy than when I started. After about 5-10 miles of cruising, when I finally reached a stop, I noticed the pedal felt much firmer. Firmer than before I think.
Is this because of the new front pads maybe? I am hoping someone can shed some light. I am going to try bleeding again next weekend. I am going to use the order I found here, and set the pump up per the instructions (I didnt set it up quite the way book said to.)
Of course, I did not read up, and did not do it in order of opposing corners. I used a vacuum pump to suck the fluid out at the bleeders (I dont have anyone available to pump the brake pedal for me.)
So I went according to what the instructions say; start at the wheel closest to the cylinder (driver front) then passenger front, then driver rear, then passenger rear. I ran the fluid out the bleeders for quite awhile to make sure fresh fluid was in the brake lines.
After doing all this, I took the car for a ride, and the pedal felt even more spongy than when I started. After about 5-10 miles of cruising, when I finally reached a stop, I noticed the pedal felt much firmer. Firmer than before I think.
Is this because of the new front pads maybe? I am hoping someone can shed some light. I am going to try bleeding again next weekend. I am going to use the order I found here, and set the pump up per the instructions (I didnt set it up quite the way book said to.)
10-02-2005, 10:21 PM
#37
I just replaced my pass. front caliper and the brake definitely feels worse. I will check the line within a week if the pedal does not get firmer. It stops fine, but it's not as responsive as before......
At least now I got that seized caliper taken care of. My MPG should go up this week!
At least now I got that seized caliper taken care of. My MPG should go up this week!
10-03-2005, 08:34 AM
#38
Originally Posted by twiggy144
spongy brajke pedal: most likely you have air in the brake system. Bleed all 4 corners again. It onyl takes a few "bubbles" of air to make the brake feel spongy.
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