That's your explanation?

 

Dude. We're all happy that your truck still runs great after 300,000 miles and 5 minutes without oil. Seriously.

But let's try to keep it on topic, shall we? Your point is that dry starts don't contribute significantly to wear. That's impossible given the physics that everyone here knows. So, to prove it, you need to show that your truck will last just as long as someone else's that has seen similar usage patterns but never 5 minutes without oil or an oil change with a dry filter. Care to take that bet? I wouldn't.

And even if you could prove that, you would then have to prove that it's even applicable to the engines we're talking about here. I wouldn't want to try that either, since these engines are drastically different from the engines you're bringing up in most of the ways that are relevant to the discussion.

 

I work at an oil change place, we simply lube the filter's gasket and pop it on EMPTY!

DF

 

yes. your post was irrelevant and pointless. that's my explanation.

do you really think I'm going to waste my time chasing down every off-topic tangent you bring into the discussion in a vain attempt to discredit those who don't agree with you?

and why are you still using bold italics?

 

At the end of the day it is what it is.

 

I'm one who has in the past not filled his oil filter for his Maxima before installing -- because it mounts horizontally. But after reading all of this thread, I will now try partially filling the filter to see if I can get it installed without spilling any new motor oil from the filter being turned sideways.

I would not have tried this procedure except that others on this thread said this is what they are doing without loosing any oil. Thanks.

Final point -- I believe that all things being equal, it's better to install a "wet" filter rather than a "dry" filter.

 

Oh sh*t! Did you see that?? Did you see it??

sky jumper, you definitely just got told. If that doesn't end it, I don't know what can. I don't think there's any way you could refute it.

Back to the drawing board on your oil theories, eh?

 

I fill my filter up with oil, then wait for the paper to soak it up like a wick. Then I add some more till it's about halfway. That's what I do, that's what I have always done. Does it hurt? No. Does it help? I like to think it does. Am I telling everyone else what to do with theirs? No. Do I care what you guys do with this? Not really. It's just what I do.

 

I do the same. Fill it up and let it soak in a few times until it's probably 1/2-2/3 full then spin it on quick. If a little bit spills, oh well.

 

I disagree -- particularly given the cost of synthetic motor oil. But I suspect that a half-full filter is better on initial start-up than a completely empty filter.

 

Filling the oil filter prior to installation is ridiculous for a small engine, all points made are valid, but I will never bother filling an oil filter on a car.
In addition, you are now running unfiltered oil where it should be filtered. my .02

 

Automobile engine is "small"? Okay.

Um you are correct, filling the filter up and technically running unfiltered oil. But think about this for just a second okay?

 

Dude. It's factory-fresh, and it's coming from a sealed container. What impurities is it going to have at all, much less that a <$10 filter is going to catch?

And you do realize that the oil filler hole dumps the oil straight onto your valvetrain and through the head, right?

 

So I forgot to lube the rubber seal when I changed my oil, is my engine going to blow?

OK seriously now, I also fill the filter, wait for it to soak, add more, spin it around to soak then put it on.

 

We're talking 50 cents, maybe $1 worth max here... if that's a big deal to you, so be it but to me it's not, for the 3-4 times a year I change the oil.

 

And thats why I would never take my car to an oil change place as typically its never done right and rushed.

 

LOL...I just could not resist. This made my day.

 

I'm comparing it to a diesel truck engine / oil filter (obiously a little different but yeah very small by my comparison)

where do i start

 

Please, start anywhere you want. I'm listening.

 

Me too!

 

Lol, I didn't think my thread would turn into such an interesting debate.

 

Old thread - but someone voted, so I might as well post... I'm not really convinced either way yet..

For those that fill and have logical reasonings for doing so - where is the data that you are supposedly using to show that there is any wear by not filling the filter? I understand, in theory, the point you are trying to make - however as the other side alludes to, in practice it may not necessarily matter.. ?

I'm interested to know. I think I will start filling the filter, at least partially, just because it is no burden on me and for peace of mind.. but I'm curious as to the availability of any data to backup the point the BITOG crew are pushing..

 

I won't think you're going to find any hard data. To really "prove" such a thing would require extensive testing over a large sample size to establish a clear trend of additional wear / early failure on those engines where you didn't do it.

I look at it like this. It CAN'T hurt. Since the oil has to fill the filter before it gets to the engine, it is not disputable that putting some oil in the filter will result in oil getting to the moving parts quicker. And there are ZERO consequences to doing it. Some have said that it is messy but even that is untrue because this can be done without spilling if you're careful.

So WHY wouldn't you do it?

 

I'd love to know, too. But I agree with BigFly_2K2SE: we'll probably never see actual data because it'd be too hard to test.

However, it's physically impossible for filling the oil filter not to help. The only question is whether it helps so much that the engine will last long enough that something else will put the car out of commission before it does. That depends on quite a few variables...

As has been said, it's pretty damn cheap insurance either way...

 

I would agree with all that and I'll probably start doing it, just for the heck of it.. the way some people were talking it sounded like the evidence of the benefits was irrefutable, hence my question.

In theory it makes sense, but it wouldn't be the first time that "common sense" reasonings have been shown to be hardly as true as people may believe...

P.S. - answer my question in 4th gen forum!

 

I did this, it made a difference. After an oil change my car takes 2-3 seconds to build pressure, when you do this, pressure is instant.
So, it only helps maybe 2-3 seconds of dry running, I use synthetic anywayz.

 

It doesn't hurt anyting to fill the filter with oil. I don't like the idea of the car being started with zero oil in the filter or oil passages in the motor for a few seconds while idling a 750 rpm.

 

I did this today for the first time in my Maxima. (I do it all the time with my truck because the filter mounts with the open end up, rather than sideways in the Max.)

I use the Mobil 1 filter (105) which is bigger than the Nissan OEM filter. I put about 1/8 of a quart into the new filter. I had to be careful not to pour too much oil into the filter because it takes some time for the level to go down (the filter to absorb the oil). When I was done, there was still some oil on the "top" of the filter. I poured this back into the quart bottle of Mobil 1 -- thanks to Mobil for the large opening in their bottles.

I then quickly screwed the filter in place -- and no oil was spilled. Had I not poured the "surplus" oil on top of the filter back into the bottle, there would have been a small oil spill -- with wasted motor oil.

Final point: 1/8 of a quart did not fill the filter, but appeared to fill it just over half full.

 

Actually it won't spill if you keep the filter moving (ie.. turning) and you are quck enough when spinning it on. But if you excess oil is all the way at the top, yeah, it will probably spill. But if it's like 1/2, you should be okay.

 

I tried this for the first time on my Max. Filled up filter, started absorbing into the media right away, so filled again. By the time I got the old filter off and cleaned the mess, there was nothing showing in the new filter. When I started the car the oil pressure light went off faster than usual (less than a second).

Next time I will try filling 2-3 times to see how much is absorbed before installing.

 

I have prefilled my Nissan OEM filters for my 95 since I bought it new. I used to fill it all the way to the top and then experienced some spillage when trying to get it mounted. Now, I simply put in enough to saturate the filter media and then spin on the filter. This takes about 1/8 quart. No spillage occurs with this method. One thing of interest is that it does take a few minutes for the oil to completely saturate the filter media. I can fill the filter about twice and all this oil will eventually soak in. Therefore, by pre-filling the filter, I am avoiding this pre-saturation time during engine start-up. In other words, it is not just an issue of the engine filling the dry filter, it is an issue of saturating the media before it can start to flow through the media. I feel one avoids this by the pre-fill approach.

 

^^ Yup amazing how much oil you can get into the filter w/o it spilling. I can get probably 1/4 to 1/2 quart into it and spin it on fast.

Think about how many more milliseconds it takes to get the oil flow going when you install the filter dry.

 

10 chars
forum multi posted

 

lol i totally forgot about this
looking back i mispoke I think a bit. and was vague as all heck in my statements, sorry.

to clear up. I dont think its worth it,
most people would incorrectly fill the filter in the center, which will run unfiltered oil where it should be filtered as I stated (i should have given my reason for saying so).
and i understand what you guys are saying and all the points made, if its done correctly it isn't a bad thing to do (filling it up b4 putting it on that is).
but as long as you dont start the car and rev the crap out of it right away, not a big deal. <my opinion (and you know what they say about opinions)
like i said its not a bad practice IF you fill the filter right. And i've done it quite a few times, and will probably do it again

and obiously when filling with oil it flows over everything and drops to the oil sump, I meant the oil that is pressurized and sent through the crank, valves, etc. should be filtered.
but the biggest thing i have to say i agree with
it CANT hurt to fill the filter, no oil is worse than unfiltered oil.

 

so it wont do any serious damage not filling the filter prior to start up? How long exactly will the engine not have proper oil supply when doing this? a second?

 

Depending on the oil and the temperature, I'd guess 5-15 seconds: longer for thicker oil and cold temps, shorter for thinner oil and hot temps.

 

I fill mine before any installation. If your patient and let the oil absorb you won't have any spill. Long term it is good for the engine not having starve for those few seconds on start up. I hold on to my vehicles for long periods of time.

 

This is just me but if you started your car and it goes immediately into fast idle (as it should for cold start mode), your engine would most likely be almost trash if it didn't have an oil supply for 15 seconds. Especially if that's "longer" or on top of the normal time.

 

The question was about how long it'd be before the engine had a "proper" oil supply, which I took to mean that oil is starting to flow everywhere in the engine. 5-15 seconds isn't long for that, especially considering that it can take up to a minute and a half to build full oil pressure on a stone cold start.

Also, the engine is making virtually no torque even with a fast idle so the pressures on the bearings and such are not big. The tiny film of lubrication left on the moving parts will be fine for that until the oil from the sump gets moving again.

 

The longest point from the oil sump is the upper valvetrain. It's also one of the most critical. If it took 15 seconds to "get everywhere", then you surely must mean it's okay for the valvetrain to operate with no lubrication other than the tiny film left over for xx hours. Typically overnight.

If you have some links that illustrate that it takes 15 seconds for the oil to reach all parts of the engine, please so do. IMHO that's waay too long.

Ever notice how long it takes for your oil light to turn off when you change your oil?