chillin014

iTrader: (67)

For my birthday I'm getting a welder because I need one BAD. I really want to make this a smart purchase, I know welders vary in price drastically. I dont know a whole lot about welders which is why I came here obviously. If you dont know what your talking about PLEASE do not post here, i only want people with alot of experience. I would like to just get the best bang for the buck, like I said nothing I'm going to end up regretting because I didnt spend enough but nothing too fancy either.
I'm going to be welding everything from cross members and exhaust to small brackets and what not.
dont even know if I want MIG or TIG.

in my Northern tool magazine I'm seein Hobart brand welders , lincoln electric, and even their house brand "northern industrial tools".

lemme know what yall like/got. thanks

BLACKonBLACK98

iTrader: (42)

you're definitely gonna want a mig. 110v should be enough for small projects, but 220v don't cost much more. i have pesonally always preferred lincoln electric. i''ve probably used 4-5 brands including hobart (they're ok too). i actually forget which one i own since its been at a shop i used to work at for a while now.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

If you won't be welding anything over 3/8", a 110v will get you by and is alot easier to find an outlet for.

If 1/4" and thicker, you will have to to to a 220v. I have a cheapo 110v and it works okay. But I only do simple brackets and exhaust stuff. Do anything that requires strength or is a supporting member,then I'd look into a Lincoln or Miller.

chillin014

iTrader: (67)

hmm thanks guys. I mean...is it a matter of patience? or do the smaller welders simply NOT weld thicker metal?

cause i am doing a cross member that has structural strength in my other vehicle.
i have 220v outlets but yeah there are more 110 for sure. Theres a couple options for 110v and 220v though, any specific numbers i should be looking for? amp wise or whatever.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

110v units don't technically put out the amperage. I guess if you bevel both ends that need to be welded you could get away with it. IF you can get decent penatration. I'd say the X-Member is about the max on thickness. I think it's double walled but not more than 1/4"?

It also depends on how good you are. An experienced welder would know how to make it work.

chillin014

iTrader: (67)

what x member are you talkin about?

how do i know if my weld isnt sturdy? try to break it by beating it on the floor? lol.

BLACKonBLACK98

iTrader: (42)

most 110v are rated for 1/4" if you double pass iirc. when you go any thicker the welder basically doesn't get hot enough for a proper weld. if you get one i'll school you on what i know about mig welding.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

You sound like a beginner. You need to determine how thick of metal you are going to be welding most of the time. That will make a big diff on the costs of the welder. I'd try to buy a Miller or Lincoln if you think you will be welding alot.
But at this point YOUR skill is going to be the weakest point right now. Read, learn and practice.

BLACKonBLACK98

iTrader: (42)

once you really understand how welding works and whats important you dont really test every weld. when you're starting out there are some methods to test your weld (i.e. how much metal rips out when you brake the weld). i learned in a structred enviroment so we did some crazy welding/testing.

BLACKonBLACK98

iTrader: (42)

i couldnt think of miller to save my life. the main choices are between miller and lincoln. either one of those and you can't really go wrong.

chillin014

iTrader: (67)

yes, that was the point of this thread actually. I will probably be welding sheet metal most of the time restoring rusted body panels on another car and what not. And yes I'll be welding alot.
I need to get this thing in my hands to get the experience I need. I just dont want to get some cheap piece of crap thats going to hold me back. But I dont want to spend more than I need to necessarily either.

black- i'll be bugging you once i get it and **** starts falling off my car loll

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Wow sheetmetal? Then you have to go quality and with something that can adjust amperage, gas rate, speed etc... So yeah, Lincoln or Miller for sure.

I have a cheapo 110v that has a frog gas regulator (fixed rate). It's rude and crude but for the stuff I do, it's fine.

chillin014

iTrader: (67)

alright i'll scrap the hobart idea then. itll probably be lincoln cause i dont see any miller brand stuff.

chillin014

iTrader: (67)

yeah if anything im going to be welding thinner stuff as opposed to thicker. do you agree on MIG jeff?

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Thinner is actually harder. Try welding pop can sheetmetal together

BLACKonBLACK98

iTrader: (42)

http://www.harrisweldingsupplies.com...ROD&ProdID=378'

i believe this is the one i bought. not from this particular store but the sp-135t w/ cart.

chillin014

iTrader: (67)

no nothing that thin hopefully lol. i edited my last post maybe you didnt catch it. you think mig is the right "one" as well?

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

I think TIG produces alot cleaner weld but is harder to learn.

chillin014

iTrader: (67)

that one sounds like it does alot of adjustments. i think it might be out of "my" price range though. ima take a look at how many different ones lincoln electric offers to weed out my options.

chillin014

iTrader: (67)

what do yall think of this one.
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...01+502421+1177

at home depot- the next step up is 600 dollars (too expensive) the next step down is an arc welder for 389. but then 20 dollars less is i guess another arc welder because it says it "easily upgrades to MIG".

BLACKonBLACK98

iTrader: (42)

you want to get a mig. you also really want one with power/wire speed adjustment, especially for sheet metal. you can get one without the cart for close to the same price.

http://www.google.com/products?q=lin...w=dd&scoring=p

you can find much better prices online than you will at major chains.

chillin014

iTrader: (67)

yeah good point. "wire" feeder doesnt mean that it has the speed adjustment?

chillin014

iTrader: (67)

and yall are saying that argon sheilded gas or whatever is necessary, right? looks like i have to buy it separate or something

BLACKonBLACK98

iTrader: (42)

you can use flux core wire but i wouldn't reccomend it.

chillin014

iTrader: (67)

oh so MIG wire automatically has the the gas "built in" or somethin? cause its saying "either mig or flux core"

BLACKonBLACK98

iTrader: (42)

why are you posting when we're on aim fool?

anyway, flux core releases a gas as it burns so it needs no innate gas but its kind of sputtery from my experience. regular mig wire is to be used with shielding gas.

JSutter

iTrader: (46)

My buddy has a Lincoln 140c. Its 110v MIG, perfect for DIY stuff.

chillin014

iTrader: (67)

ty ty. what does 140c stand for? is that some model number?

joosdawg

iTrader: (9)

i also have a 110v lincoln MIG that i LOVE. Works great with alot of things ive fabbed up in the past couple years. Although one thing that sucks about it is theres not enough adjustment with the settings in the model i have so working with this metals is really not an option. Always worked awesome with exhaust and intakes ect though.

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

I highly recommend Miller, but Hobart, ESAB, and Lincoln also make good machines.

The Millermatic 140 is perfect for everything 110v. I've heard great things about the new autoset model, it is supposed to make it much much easier for n00bs (as if the voltage control in the Millers didn't already).

TIG is not necessary for your intended uses.

If you are not intending to use flux core wire then you'll need C-25 gas (well actually it varies on your usage but stick with the standard 75% argon/25% CO2). Most people prefer using shielding gas + solid core wire over flux core wire, less spatter, deeper penetration, easier, etc. but has a higher setup cost.

yeah but with more voltage/wire speed options it becomes less of a chore

shortyblu95

iTrader: (10)

i like lincoln 110v though its kinda cheap and its no miller it does do the job reliably. No complaints on it, however i would really have gone with a miller product if i had to do it over again regardless of the price. My friend has one and its soooo much easier to use and make decent welds with.

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

Cheap welders are not as efficient as high quality welders. You can actually get deeper than advertised penetration with say the Miller (which is rated lower than the Lincoln but...). Higher quality welders provide much more control in terms of voltage and wire speed and the better circuitry is more consistent providing a better weld.

If nothing else, pick up a welder at harbor freight, then go pick up a Miller

A good 110v can outperform a cheap 220v. You'll probably spend $600 on the low end ($450-500 if using flux-core), $700-800 on the high end, but welders are something you keep for a very long time and pay for themselves.

Another thing to consider, because higher quality welders are more efficient you'll spend less in the long run, but that's more if you are using it on a constant basis.

shortyblu95

iTrader: (10)

just a heads up when i was at home depot the other day i saw them clearing out 3 of the welders that i got for $249! Might want to check any specials like that, write down model # and do some research on them.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

No flux core! Messy welds and smokey. Gas unit is a must.

Once you know which one you want, browse Craigslist in your area. Always welders on there.

I got my cheapo110v for like $100. Gone already went to down on it and practiced until one tank of argon/co2 was used up. It's already paid for itself for the crap I've fixed for my family and friends. But I figure it's cheap to buy and to truely see if I'm serious. If I get another unit, I will go up on Quality. But will probably stay 110v.

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

That was Anton and John's doing, I had no idea they did that until it was too late (otherwise I would have made sure they refilled it ). I'll cover your next refill if you want

chillin014

iTrader: (67)

thanks guys. I guess I've got some thinking to do.
I have been checking craigslist but oddly there isnt too much in my area. I'll keep an eye on it but some of these people want to trade some weird stuff like horses and other animals.


edit- this one is in my price range. i've got about 460 to spend. so whatever i can get for about that.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=013
anyone else see a disadvantage to purchasing this one?

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

It's a bit late, but I second the comments of blackonblack and Jeff.

I've got a lincoln SP135 or 135t or whatever with the C-25 gas setup on it to weld steel.
It's the biggest 110v welder you can get pretty much- Hobart, Lincoln, and Miller all have one in the 130-140A range. Mine's the Lincoln variant, which is pretty much middle of the range for the big brands. the Miller would be the best, but you're going to pay for it.
Mine was $450 + about $120 or so for the gas setup. so expect to spend about $600 total for it.

I've used it to build all of my BlehmCo parts and it has lasted me 3 years and easily hundreds of hours of welding and the only thing I've had to replace is the tips. It's about time to overhaul the nozzle, but that's all basic maintenance that you'll have to do with any gun.

If you'd like to come by and play with it for a while (I have tons of pieces of scrap metal you can weld on), give me a call.. I'll be working around the house the rest of the afternoon and probably most of tomorrow.. I'll PM you my number..

Edit... one of the things I forgot and hasn't been mentioned here yet..
The wiring on your house going to the welder is VERY important- especially when you're dealing with a 110v welder.
most residential wiring is either 12 or 14 gauge. if you have 14 gauge wiring, don't even think about it. 12 gauge copper is acceptable if you have a fairly short run to the breaker box. If its more than 50 ft to the breaker box, you'll need to go up to 10 gauge wire for the welder and run a dedicated circuit.
If you have aluminum wiring (common in older houses), don't even think about using a welder on it unless you're using 8gauge or better.

If you said you have a 220V outlet out there already, most likely it's going to be pretty good size wiring and a dedicated circuit going to it. I suggest making a 110v plug out of it by using just one of the hot wires and the neutral and not terminating to the other prong on the 220v plug. (basically 220v wiring uses a +110 v, neutral, and -110v to get 220v total across the poles). so you can easily make a 110v plug out of it that's got more than sufficient wire size to power the welder.

Why is this so important? try running the welder off a tiny thin extension cord and then see how crappy the welds come out. the welder simply can't put enough current (heat) into the weld for sufficient penetration and it just sucks.

BLACKonBLACK98

iTrader: (42)

i really feel that the lincoln is just as good as the miller, and it just depends on preference (although a majority seem to prefer miller). i'm not sure that i have used a 110v miller (i have used 1 but it was modded to 220v), but on the 220v machines i learned to weld with (in school) i preffered the lincoln to the point where i wouldn't use the millers.

MaximaMark123

Installment 1
OK, here is the breakdown.
1> Take a class at your local college. Then decide.

TIG (Tungsten Inert Gas or Gas Tungsten Arc Welding, GTAW, as the American Welding Society has been calling it for 30 years because inert gas's are not the only ones used. We use oxygen, CO2 and hydrogen too.)

Requires a power source (welding machine of at least 100 amp capacity), torch lead, TIG Torch, collet body, collet and ceramic cup, I prefer a gas lens to the collet body because the gas flow is smoother and extends further from the cup. Then you need a high pressure bottle of Argon, a regulator/flow meter and hose with connections to run from the flow meter to the TIG Torch. Also check the duty cycle of the machine, the higher the duty cycle the better the machine. A duty cycle of 30 means you can use the machine for 3 minutes out of 10. A 50 = 5 minutes out of 10 etc... before you overheat it.



And last the tungsten electrode (goes in the tip of the tig torch, the welding arc is generated between the tungsten electrode and the work), pure tungsten for welding aluminum and brass, ceriated tungsten for steel, Stainless steel and just about everything else. I do not recommend Thoriated tungsten any more because it's radioactive (gamma).
Try cyberweld.com to see these parts.

If you add a hand held amperage controller/wire holder or foot pedal you can adjust the amperage during welding. Not necessary but nice.

Then you need welding wire of the correct type to match what you are welding. comes in 3' lengths, cut it in half for easier handling. Inside a steam generator of a nuclear reactor I like 1' lengths, its all there is room for! A welding supply will know what you mean if you ask for 70S2 welding wire, good for most steel parts. I have welded aircraft landing gear and engine mounts with both 70S2 and 70S4, the planes are still flying!

If you want to weld aluminum you need an AC power source or a square wave power source. The little Miller I have at home is a DC power source so its good for steel only. I can use it for Stick (Shielded Metal Arc Welding) welding too.

This is my preferred method of welding, no sparks, no splatter, clean weld, slower weld speed and more control. The only drawback is it puts more heat into the base metal as you weld and can cause more warpage if you are not careful. Weld slow, keep it cool with air after welding, not water. If water gets in the weld joint it boils when you weld and makes a big mess.

I keep a little Miller 110v machine handy. You can weld anything with it as far as thickness of the parts go, it just takes longer than the big machines. A lot of small weld beads as opposed to a few big ones. If you put a 25 amp breaker in your house breaker box you won’t pop it, the normal 15 amp breaker will pop after while if you use 80 welding amps or higher. Plugging directly into an outlet helps, no extension cord. If you need an extension cord, get a large gauge one. This works for all welding machines.

It’s a bit like acetylene torch welding, the tig torch heats the metal up and you add filler wire (70S2) to the puddle. Stainless steel is the only metal we generally fuse together, we add no filler metal.

I think I got everything, machine, equipment, gas, filler wire. Safety equipment!
Get a good hood. I recommend auto darkening but the ones that work well with TIG welding cost $300 and up, you may be able to find a used one but make sure clear lenses are still available.
No matter what you see on TV, wear long sleeves and gloves. The ultra violet light from the arc will burn your skin and we all know skin cancer can come from that. Get good TIG welder gloves and a TIG welder coat, welding suppliers will know what they are.


Now get a bunch of scrap metal and practice.

Next installment:
MIG (Metal Inert Gas or Gas Metal Arc Welding

MaximaMark123

MIG (Metal Inert Gas, AWS name is GMAW, Gas Metal Arc Welding)

Requires a constant voltage power source (welding machine), a wire feeder, high pressure bottle of Argon, a regulator/flow meter, a roll of welding wire.

For the argon you can either buy a bottle and have it refilled as needed or rent one but you pay rent all the time. If you look for a used bottle check out the ring around the top of the bottle just under the cap. If it has a company name (airco, Linde) it is a rental bottle. If it is blank its a privately owned bottle.
Chain the bottle to something secure so it can't fall over.

All the MIG machines have adjustable amperage and adjustable wire feed speed. There is no other way to adjust the machine to weld different thicknesses of material.

You can weld just about any thickness material it just takes lots of small weld beads to fill up the joint.

Once the machine is set correctly you could teach anyone to weld with it. It does a nice consistent weld bead if you keep the travel speed constant.

With small welding wire, like 0.030" diameter, you can weld 1/16" thick sheet metal. This machine can be used to weld steel or aluminum just by changing the filler wire.

A small amount of splatter is produced so you need to protect anything near the weld area.

Hope this helps.