Kevin Wong

For those of you who haven't heard:

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....+ground+system




Now for the update:
I just had my 97 Maxima dyno'd and though my numbers were very disappointing, I'm very happy with the Hyper Ground Wires....they added 8 HP to my peak and 13.2 ft-lbs of torque respectively. Keep in mind that this is just at the peak. I gained about 8-10 HP from 3,500-5,000 RPM and about 14-22 ft-lbs of torque from 3,500-5,000 RPM. I have the dyno sheet in my hands, but XS is going to email me a JPEG file of my results.

If you are like me and wonder about low end power increase, I gained about 2-3 HP from 1,750-3,500 RPM and 5-9 ft-lbs at 1,750-3,500 RPM.

tifosiv122

iTrader: (2)

Did you dyno the Hyper Ground Wires alone or with another mod at the same time?

Erik

Keven97SE

I'm very interested to view the dyno plot to see the changes to the torque/HP curves. Please make sure and post when they're available.

How was the ground kit dyno'd? Was it a direct before and after dyno, or were the two done in separate dyno sessions weeks apart?

Kevin Wong

I had my car baselined and only pulled:

168.6 HP @ 5,550 RPM
178.4 ft-lbs @ 4,600 RPM.


I have the following mods:
POP intake
Stillen 2 piece Y-pipe
Courtesy B-pipe
5th gen muffler
UDP
13" Brembo Gran Turismo Big Brake kit (reduced rotor mass)
17X8" SSR Integrals (18lbs...lightweight)

I've been examining my dyno sheet and noticed that something weird is happening to my car. First off, my curve is very jagged at the top end and I have small dip in the curve at 3,550 RPM. At XS, Eric told me he heard a few "pinging" noises from the engine when it was on the dyno. This could be attributed by th 87 octane gas I had in the tank, the 56K mile/5 year old spark plugs, and/or the who knows how old the fuel filter is. That would explain the jagged curve, but I was wondering what happened at 3,550 RPM. It just dawned on my 5 minutes ago that it's probably my Variable flowing 5th gen Muffler. It probably opens up at 3,550. I'm still bummed that my car showed such small numbers on the dyno, but my times are still good. XS clocked my Maxima's 0-60 in 6.4 seconds and 1/4 mile in 14.3 at 94.2 MPH.

They suggested that I should change my plugs with new stock ones or go with the Denso Iridiums (they had good gains with them on their R33 Skyline) fuel filter, and then try 91 octane again...that is before I go back and get the S-AFC installed. This way, we can see the gains from fresh plugs, 91 octane gas, and new fuel filter. I told them about the MEVI and they suggested that instead of the Harlan switch and the Apex'i S-AFC, I should consider going with the V-AFC. It's common to VTEC powered Hondas, but XS Engineering uses them with any car that has any variable at select RPMs. This way the MEVI as well as my motor can be fully tuned. I might hold off on this for a while though. I think I need to focus on getting the funds for this first.

Kevin Wong

This was a straight A to B dyno on the Dynojet. I had the car warmed to normal opperating conditions and ran 3 pulls for baseline. Then they took 15 minutes to install the Hyper Ground Wires and they dyno'd 3 pulls again. The car never left the dyno and was strapped in the whole time. This was done to minimize error and to minimize cost. The 6 dyno runs cost me $75 since it was strapped in the whole time.

theblue

those are some huge gains for the ground wires... I'm a little dubious that they gave that much power to the wheels beacuse it just sounds like too much. They give out interesting advice - I don't think they have studied the maxima and are mostly going on what works for other cars. If we can get some other people testing these wires and showing the same gains at another location then you will sell 1000s of them... that much HP per $$$ is amazing if true. As for the Harlan switch - its used becaues its so much cheaper... sounds like they are just trying to make more money by selling something else that they carry.

Dave B

Most every single 4th gen has the "dip" which starts around 3500rpms and then comes back up around 4100rpms. Mine has it too. The only 4th gens that don't seem to have this dip are running JWT ECUs. Many speculate that the dip is related to timing and fuel. I don't think there is anything wrong with your car.

Also, how did XS "clock" your car at 14.3@94mph? I suggest taking it to a track and get legitmate numbers.


Dave

Kevin Wong

Trust me on the gains, my car feels much better. I just have to test out the milage gains. I'm hoping for a 2 MPG gain(which is average). I'm the 9th car tested and dyno'd with this product. Mileage gains have been noticed from 8-15%. I can totally understand your skepticism. I didn't believe (I was hoping though), the tech that installed and dyno'd my car didn't believe it either. I did 3 pulls for baseline. They were very consistent. Then they did 3 more after the wires were on. Very consistent and the gains were consistent. I'll ask and see if they'll email all 6 of my runs.

The rep of the Hyper Ground Systems sent a set to Stillen to dyno, but they havn't gotten back to them yet. As for XS trying to sell me something, they advised me to go with the Apex'i S-AFC initially and I was going to have it dynotuned today, but I told them about the MEVI and then they suggested I have that installed first and them come back for the V-AFC tuning. This way I'll save money on tuning and buying a switch. I'm not sure if I'll get either the MEVI or the AFC, but they told me they just installed one on a 1998 Maxima a month ago and pulled 10 HP at the wheels with an average of 6 HP across the RPM's. They are certified by Apex'i for tuning and installation of their products. The top dog at XS was the chief engineer at Apex'i for 6 years and XS is the largest distributor of Apex'i products. They also mentioned the Greddy e-manage, but they have no experience with it.

Oh yeah, they clocked my car with a G-tech that another customer loaned to me. I thought the time and speed didn't match, but that's close enough for my purposes. My G-tech is being sent to me in the mail...should be here in about 3 days. I'll be sure to get the most out of it. Once I get my plugs, filter, and gas changed, I'm heading out to Irwindale...$20 for all the 1/4 miles you can take.

Bags

iTrader: (3)

I'll be a test dummy



posted on the other thread , sorry

If they will supply the wires I'll pay for the dyno and post my results

theblue

who cars about MPG (hehe.. j/k)... the power gains you got from those wires are insane if true.... once we have a couple people confirm your results whoever has the best price will sell all they can get their hands on...

tifosiv122

iTrader: (2)

I believe you. Tell me how much and how you accept payment and in a few weeks when I get back from Cali I will order them up.

Erik

Mishmosh

iTrader: (3)

WOW. Those gains are quite a surprise. In fact, they just blow my mind!

In any case, noticed you said in your other thread that the wires increased the resistance of the stock ground wires but using beefier guage wire in parallel will decrease resistance won't it? ...resulting in higher current? In any case, can't a DIY setup replicate the same thing... maybe using fat speaker wire? $130 is not bad though... with those types of gains, it may be the biggest value in bolt-ons ever!

Oh yeah: why you loading up on 87 octane gas?!?

Vyrus

iTrader: (4)

Those are odd times. Not only is the trap speed too high (a common G-Tech problem), but the 0-60MpH seems too slow for the G-Tech. Mzmtg pulls 15.2s on the G-Tech 1/4mile and 6.7 on the 0-60MpH. I pull 6.8s, so I don't see how you would only get 6.4 yet then be able to get nearly a second faster in the 1/4. Than means that somewhere after 60MpH you just launch past an auto? To make up 1 second in that 60MpH to 94MpH seems like you would need boost. Most 5spd Maxs pull ahead of autos off the line and gradually up high. You launch slower and rip up top? Maybe it's you cars problems but the #s just don't seem to match up to me.

And as for the wires... WOW! That's an awesome improvment. Did did you see them install it? I can't believe it only took 15 minutes, isn't it a hard install? Don't they drill holes in the chasis?
Thanks,
-Cyrus

Kevin Wong

Well, if anyone else in Socal is interested in buying a set and doing a dyno, I'll set you guys up. $75 for 6 pulls is not back, installation of the wires is $37.50 and the wires cost from $105-$130. I think they are giving me the best price they can, Sun Auto is not allowing distributors to discount their product. I originally spoke to Diaji and Atsu at Sun Auto, I first asked if they would supply the wires and after that decline, I asked if they would discount them for me. They said it was against their policy with the other distributors, but XS knocked off a few bucks cuz they took pity on this poor college student.

If anyone else is interested and wants to go the cheap route, I can try and get a few sets, install them for you, and then go for a run with my G-tech (when it gets here in a few days). When I spoke with Sun Auto, they said that their prices are likely to increase after a few months. I don't know when this product will officially be kicked off to the retail counter, but they are giving me an opportunity to buy a couple of sets. I'll look into a group buy.

As far making your own wires, some junkies on hondatech tried it. They got close results, but not as good as the Hyper Ground. One guy's car wouldn't start after...he doesn't know why (but he installed it incorrectly and gave up). You do not remove any wires, you are merely adding wires to your system. So yes, you can make them yourself. My friend bought a used Integra Type-R and it had a 4 gauge amp wire from the engine block to the chasis (we were always wondering about that). As far as voltage gains, there aren't any that I can tell. My capacitor is the same voltage before and after. I honestly don't know how this product works, but their selling angle is it:
increases torque and horsepower
increase fuel mileage
better throttle response
reduces emissions
brightens headlights
and reduces audio interference

These wires claim to have 10X less the impedence than factory on the back of the box. I think I was mistaken before. If the impedence is reduced, either voltage would decrease or the intensity would increase.

Kevin Wong

Yeah, I don't understand the numbers either, but once I get my g-tech and do a few runs maybe we'll have some answers. I didn't run my car and the G-tech didn't belong to me or XS. It was actually my idea to borrow it from another customer just to test out, so I'd know what to expect when my G-tech comes. Installation takes 15 minutes. There is no drilling, just removing already positioned nuts and bolts. Basically, you just add two of the shortest ground wires to you battery, connect one to the chasis, and the other to your engine block. Then you take another wire and connect it from your engine block, to another point on the left side of the engine. One wire goes from that point to your intake manifold and the other goes to the chasis again. I'll get some pictures up. Speaking of, can someone post some pics up for me.

BEJAY1

iTrader: (19)

The WRX guys were playing with this idea earlier this year. Some saw better throttle response, some saw nothing.

i-club Single Point Ground info

So who's gonna do another install and verify the gains?
Sure sounds interesting. Heck, maybe it'll stop me from getting shocked everytime I leave the car.

ILoveMyMax

130 bucks for those gains..count me in

Sith

iTrader: (1)

will these work on a 3rg gen VE?
If so then i'm down

97GLE

I'll host pics... email them to *******@****.com

Soon2BMaxed

sounds too good to be true.... someone else shell out some cash and back him up,




Trevor

Kevin Wong

Bring it on!!! The more the merrier...I just want to make sure I'm not dreaming. Anyone in Socal interested?

Keven97SE

I think after looking into this a little more (the WRX posts), I believe you really aren't seeing gains as much as you're seeing the performance of your car being set back to "new car" levels. Your car is performing poorly now because of various ground issues (older connections getting oxidized and loosing conduction...ground gets worse). This may be what others are seeing, as if you look around at recent dyno plots, most 4th gens are dyno'ing low. Heck, my car has been weak for sometime now also.

I think you are correcting your ground issues and setting it back to new car levels. You really aren't gaining anything. Still, this is a gooooood modification even if that's what it's doing.

I'm buying some monster cable this week and doing the ground trick myself per the WRX folks' instructions. I'll let everyone know what the results are.

Anachronism

Does the V-AFC simply combine the functions of the RPM switch and AFC or does it do more? If it does more than what? I will be ordering a VI very soon. I also posted some questions in the other thread.

97GLE

blizz20oma

iTrader: (1)

Yea, I think people are taking it too far as far as function. I think it'd definitely be worth some bucks (on a car with some age) to replace all major grounds with some nice wire, for a number of reasons, but not just "Ooo, am I going to gain .1 sec on the track??!" But I don't know if it's worth $140 or so. Do they use the same runs/locations as the factory grounds?

97GLE

I think you guys are forgetting how new those WRX's are... it could also be fixing ineffecient grounding, not just old wires.

I definetly want to see one more dyno to back this up...

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

Are back to back dyno runs really a fair comparison?? Does the ECU really adjust to the change that quickly?? I don't mean to be skeptical, but I think you might see a different story if you dyno with those new wires a week later.

DW

Lime

normally I'd agree but if it's inefficient wiring then no, it would not really have to do with the ECU, it would just be the wires conducting properly immediately.

Kevin Wong

Normally, Sun Auto only uses new straight stock cars. That is why they won't use my data in their advertising...my car is 5 years old and has bolt-on mods. Other data tested from Area 51 in Irvine:
2002.5? Civic SI gained 5 HP and 3 MPG
2001 R34 Skyline GT-R gained 10 HP and 2 MPG
2000 Subaru Legacy gained 13 HP and 2 MPG

You can give Area 51 a call, I've seen the dyno slips. Again, these are relatively new stock cars with no mods.
I'd have to agree that the ECU probably has nothing to do with it since the wires do nothing as far as engine management. When my G-tech arrives in a few days, I'll keep you posted with consistency. As far as worth the $130, there is a set at $105 but this kit is slightly thinner and has one layer of shielding less. I'm very pleased with the power gains and I'm testing the mileage right now. I just filled up my tank after all the dyno and test launches I did. So far I've only driven 50 miles on this new tank. Things look the same, but we'll see when I fill up next time.

Also for the do it yourselfers, I was at Home Depot today to try and find some wires that would compare (I'm thinking about going to ghetto route on my family's other 3 cars). None of the wires are as thick, shielded, and above all flexible in comparision to the Hyper Ground. I don't know how they did it, but the Hyper Grounds are thicker then my 4 gauge amp wires and twice as flexible. You are definitely going to need flexiblity to reach some of the ground points on the engine block.

thanks Glen for posting my dyno.

Lime

what parts are replaced, can you tell us?

JustMaxin96

iTrader: (3)

WOW!! your dyno looks great. How are you holding power to redline? You dont have your MEVI yet.. do you?
I am very interested are you going to sell these wires?
Thanks!!

AdMax98

Do you know what kind of material they are using as the wires?

Kevin Wong

1) I don't know exactly what the Hyper Ground is composed of, but they claim to be a "thick gauge 99.99% pure copper core which gets the lowest impedance and the surface is protected from oxidation." The inner tube is made of some protecting shield mesh and there is also an outer tube the prodives additional strength, flexibility, and superioir hear resistance.

2) I do not have the MEVI, though that is next mod I'm considering along with the V-AFC (Apex'i S-AFC with V-TEC control for the MEVI...don't know if it'll function better, but it's worth a shot).

3) I didn't plan on selling them, but Sun Auto offered a slight discount and I'll see how many I can buy. They are planning on upping the price in a few months.

4) Nothing is being replaced or removed. The Hyper Ground merely adds wires and connecting points to already existing ground wires.

JustMaxin96

iTrader: (3)

Oh OK you should start selling those wires, I think a lot of people would be interested especially w/ the dyno that you have. I asked about the VI because your dyno does not fall of at 5k which is not vey typical to other 4th gen dynoes I have seen. Thanks again!!

DA-MAX

iTrader: (10)

does the Hyper Ground system come with anything other than the heavier gauge wires?? I confused about what sets it apart from just buying heavy duty ground wire/cable from an autoshop or even Jegs and going with that...

Dave B

His VQ is showing peak power right around 5400-5500rpms which is very typical of a US-spec VQ. My peak is right around 5500rpms too. The MEVI will carry power straight to the 6400rpm cutoff with no drop in power.


Dave

Dave B

Can someone please explain the concept to how these wires work? If it was so simple to get power from running heavy grounding wires, why didn't other gearheads do this years ago. It almost sounds like a "Tornado". Once some others by these wires and tests them on a independent dyno, BEFORE and AFTER install, and they show gains, I'll get them too

Dave

Mishmosh

iTrader: (3)

The dyno plot posted stops at 6100 rpm instead of the 6500rpm redline. You can clearly see that at 5500rpm, the curves start to nose dive which would look more dramatic were the measurements extended to 6500rpm.

In any case, I am definitely impressed. Will be doing a DIY setup this weekend. Although my car seems to be performing adequately, it definitely is not as smooth as it once was. Even at idle, I can tell it is more rough than my dad's 1998 Maxima. ...and yes, I have done virtually all recommended and suggested maintenance procedures.

eric93SE

iTrader: (1)

Dude useing better wire will increase the voltage, not the other way around. I think you are a little confused with Ohms Law.

Again your not on the ball, when you say intensity I assume you mean current (amperage). So by reducing the resistance in the wire it will allow more current to flow, so there would be less of a voltage drop due to the resistive heating in the wire. More wire equals more charge carriers.

Wow I cannot believe that there arent any other org members that wanted to correct him.

costcowholesale

iTrader: (12)

he stopped the dyno @ 6100rpm thats why.