mmmmmm...SC whine....
earlier today i just realized that i will soon have enough money to buy a SC. then reading this thread made me even happier. i think if the kit is proven reliable, and has gains at least similar to Stealin, i will seriously consider buying it. no joke. i want this pretty bad now....hurry up

 

need a site?

 

So how do they get traction? I have heard some GTP owners brag about their '60 ft. times...They are FWD as well.

 

Why not get one to Fit a VE while your at it?
eh?

We have absolutely NO FORM OF BOOST!
i guarantee you I will buy one if you make one before i do custom or some1 else comes out with something.
I'm about 10 more other VE's will jump in aswell.
But we are the broke little brothers so I WILL buy one, Maybe ten more?

 

er... isn't it an unwritten rule that you shouldn't pay more for a mod than your car is worth?

 

I can't believe you just said that! BTW, have you seen any RICED Honduhs lately?

 

Chris your gonna be the 4th gen test mule, I will give you the kit at "cost" . BTW keep my plans on the DL, I actualy changed them a bit since we talked last.

 

oh really? intresting... what do you have in mind now? PM me later if you want.

 

What are the pulley options going to be? If we have more choice then Stillens kit, are u implying your kit will be more powerful then the Stillen kit? Anything that can beat the 100 shot of nitrous, or the Stillen kit, and come close to the Colorado turbo kit...gets two thumbs up from me.... keep us updated, and good luck


-ChRi§

 

Very interesting thread. I have always been a fan of the Roots blowers because of their proven reliabilty (100,000 miles) and massive lowend punch. GTPs are FWD which is horrible for drag racing and the added torque of the SC does make things interesting off the line, BUT the torque helps you overcome bog and you can launch at a mere 1200rpms and muscle your way off the line and still get a 2.2 60'. The Roots blower does have it's issue though. It doesn't breath well in the upper RPMs, but our VIs, 24 valves, DOHCs, and deep gears definately help things up top. Roots blowers also generate a ton of heat.

The way to make the Roots blower fit is the issue here, fellas. Most stock Roots systems replace the upper intake manifold. I use to think it would be impossible to make a Roots blower work with our cars until I saw posts of the Roots blower kits for the Sunfire/Cavilier/Grand Am. I don't have a link, but I know that these kits mount the blower in front of the forward cylinder head. A pipe then feeds the stock intake manifold. I think it's possible to mount a Roots blower within the same area and with the same underlying concept.


Dave

 

Get to it man. the SC is the only other decent performance mod left for most of us that will have any significant HP gains. ECU's don't seem to be showing up, and the SC seems to have more potential anyway. At 2.8G's I would be in (feign some stock losses to the old lady or something) Keep us posted on design and development and you might have a heluva product on your hands. Best of luck!!!!!

 

no.. less hp than stillen.. and less hp with pulley upgrades tan stillen.. no where near Nigel's turbo kit..

 

Then why is every so existed?

 

2k2 is excited because there are no other options (turbo or SC)!

Everyone else is probably excited because it's another option. People have their reasons for liking/disliking certain manufacturers and this gives another choice.

 

I have faith in the Whipple. You guys are going to be pleasantly suprised with the results. A whipple will make the car behave more like it's on Nitrous than a supercharger. They make full boost at a low RPM so you end up with a torque curve that looks like a box.
Upto 80% Efficient.
Runs much cooler than a centerfugal blower.
Whipples can produce upto 60psi of boost (depending on the unit)
They don't require external oiling.

 

I don't know how ANYONE can be existed about a superC... 3 years ago, yes. But now, why pay almost 3 grand just to hang with the new generation of cars coming out, why not just save your money and pay a little more and get the turbo it, and be one step ahead of the game.

 

So this new kit, if it does come out DOES have the potential to be more powerful then the stillen kit?

 

That's the idea of a low-cost S/C. Because not a lot of people can afford that "little bit more" for a Turbo.

The fact that it's going to be a Whipple-type also makes installation easier for the average Joe.

In the end it's all about choices, it's better to have one than not having any at all.

 

That is tru What I was wondering is, we all know our motor is strong, the turbo kit adds about an extra 150 HP to the wheels, if the superC adds about 100, why not add a 50 shot of nitrous to your setup?

-ChRi§

 

Most Whipple kits make a 50% hp improvement. A Vortech can easily make the same peak power and perhaps peak toqure as a Whipple. But when you look at the whole graph the Vortech can't compete. The Whipple car will always run down the track faster than the Vortech car with the same peak hp or peak boost.

And I do believe it has the potential to make more hp becasue of it's very high efficiency and thermal qualities.

 

ok NOW im intrested! Thats like Music to my ears!

-ChRi§

 

If that recent post about the study on the characteristics of the bone-stock VQ block is true. Then, at least for the 2k2+ guys, they won't want to put more than 400hp at the crank or risk cracking the block.

 

I'll do the math... (all numbers approximate)

$2,800 for SC kit, or

$10,000(+) for custom turbo; or

$ ?,??? for a turbo kit that may or may not ever happen.

2k2/2k3 are looking forward to a real choice.

 

5th and 4th gen motors cant handel over 400 hp?


-ChRi§

 

a whipple max may run down the track faster than a vortech max .. but put both of them on the highway with a 75 mph start.. the vortech maxima will walk the whipple maxima no question.. that and the fact that the whipple max with a 2 PSI boost increase maybe lets say produce 30 more hp and a vortech max with 2 PSI boost increase maybe produce 30 more hp also.. but a whipple max with 4 PSI boost increase will if circumstances are same 40 more hp where as the vortech max with 4 PSI boost increase will be at 60 more hp.. the higher the boost.. the better the vortech blower performs..

whipple superchargers are for dragsters.. stop light racers and people who tow stuff.. unfortunately all or most of my races are on the highway so i wouldn't benefit from a whipple.. the vortech would be my weapon

so its for each person to choose a blower on their style of use

 

what are you talking about? there are at least 3 or 4 people where with over 400 hp at the crank with stock internals.. the VQ30DE block and the VQ30DET block are the same..

 

Like i said, if that recent post about it was true - which i don't know for sure.

Anyway it was about this thing where Nissan put the VQ35 under some kind of test to see how much power it can handle w/o any modifications. It came up to roughly 425hp at the crank.

I can't find the post but it was from a month or so ago.

 

Consider this,

"If you’re interested in building your own supercharger packages for kits to sale to the general public, or if you’re building a custom application, there is no better supercharger than a Whipple Twin Screw Compressor. OEM manufactures utilize positive displacement superchargers due to their incredible throttle response and drive-ability of a big cubic inch motor. When building a system for the consumers, you must provide a very broad power ban with a high peak horsepower level, only the screw compressor can give you this. This is due to the high adiabatic (up to 80%) and volumetric efficiency levels (up to 98%). The Eaton/Lysholm screw compressors are the most reliable, dependable, performance-enhancing item ever designed for either low boost or high boost levels. "

If both units are peaking out at 14psi on each test car then the Whipple will still have the advantage because it's adiabatic efficiency is still greater than the Centerfugal Vortech. The only way Vortech car can compete is to have a higher boost level to compensate for lost efficiency. You would have to push the vortech past it's efficiency sweet spot to exceed the hp of the Whipple anyways.

 

Is it tru what he was saying tho, about a Vortec being able to beat a whipple top end if both are on the same moded car, and pushing the same psi?

 

According to the posted information from both manufacturers no.

At the same PSI the Whipple is more effieicent therefore it puts more HP to the heels.

 

What Sprint was going at is that the Whipple produces max boost at lower RPM's and though it keeps the power throughout the powerband it doesn't climb up top like the Centrifugal or Roots type.

 

This is America.. you ever notice something about american cars? they all have strong low end and no top end. .. you ever notice all the old american muscle cars? they are all geared for up to 100 mph and then nothing.. naturally its the america philosphy to build an application that has no top end.. of course they are going to recommend the whipple..


first off.. use a more realistic number like 8 PSI.. because a whipple blower and a Centrifugal blower at 14 PSI is no comparison..

second ... don't we all strive for more power.. how many people on here are running stock pulley on their superchargers? huh? everybody is trying to run 3.125 pulley and smaller... how do you think the whipple max's are going to feel when they get to the point of increasing boost and can't keep up performance wise to the Vortech Max.. Vortech blowers have been used on mustangs for years some have even hit 20 PSI and their has not been an efficencey problem.. besides.. Y2KevSE is seeing boost below 2000 rpm's on his Vortech blower with his 2.87 .. so that even makes it better than the whipple because as the rpm's increase.. the boost increase.. unlike the whipple which is the opposite.

 

thanks mike

 

Um yeah..... would you rather make 14psi at 6600 RPM only? Or would you rather make 14psi from 2500 all the way to 6600 RPM?

 

ie. drag racers who's car probably isn't geared for 120 mph.. i think most of the people here are redliners..

like i said before.. i am not saying the whipple is bad.. and that the vortech is good..

what i am saying is.. for us highway racers and redliners.. the vortech supercharger is better than the whipple supercharger..

if you like down low power and no top end.. then you are a whipple man

i am a man who likes to see hp climb with rpm's and bounce off that redline and bang the next gear.. thats why i chose a turbo for my boost application

my goal here is not to tell people to buy vortech over whipple.. my goal is for people who don't understand the difference to know to choose what is best for they style of driving..

Thank you.. have a nice day

 

Sprint,

I understand what you're trying to say. But I am trying to explain to people that with a flat torque curve the hp will contiue to rise but even more so than with the Vortech.

According to these numbers, and experience from people I know who use this product, the whipple gives you the best of both worlds. Tons of low end torque because of full boost at a lower RPM and tons of high end torgue becasue of the same full boost at a high RPM as well as linear airflow capabilities. And becasue of that the Whipple still makes more hp on the top end at the same boost pressure.

The Whipple delivers a near constant boost level and a linear air flow. The Vortech delivers linear boost and probably linear squared air flow.

 

I thought the only turbo'ed 4th gen Maximas were Turbo95Max, UncleMax, turbo97se, and turbo97GXE. When did you get a turbo?

 

learn to use the search function http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....ighlight=Turbo

 

thats funny hahaha

 

obviously you like your views.. and i like my views and were are not going anywhere. i am not convicing you and you are not convincing me.. i guess only time will tell when both of them are in maxima's and they actually run or dyno..