It's scary how many people warm up a car the wrong way....
08-30-2002, 01:31 AM
#87
Originally posted by 1MAX2NV
Yep, This is very true. The best way to warm up a car is as you described. Let it idle for about 30-60 second, then start driving. Another thing after you start driving is to go slow for awhile. I usually creep along my neighborhood around 15 mph until I get to the main road. I don't rev over 3K until the temp gauge is in the middle.
Yep, This is very true. The best way to warm up a car is as you described. Let it idle for about 30-60 second, then start driving. Another thing after you start driving is to go slow for awhile. I usually creep along my neighborhood around 15 mph until I get to the main road. I don't rev over 3K until the temp gauge is in the middle.
08-30-2002, 05:21 AM
#88
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 156
Re: not convinced
Originally posted by LeoB
None of my cars ever had any engine problems at the time I sold them, which was usually after about 200,000 miles.
None of my cars ever had any engine problems at the time I sold them, which was usually after about 200,000 miles.
misc thoughts:
Gas will burn off more quickly than oil because it was designed to, it's more volatile. Oil has to be able to NOT burn off at a normal operating temperature. FWIW I just switched to synthetic for a number of reasons, including free flow in cold temperatures. It is true however that oil pressure is at maximum at idle.
08-30-2002, 07:13 AM
#89
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 9,159
Re: Re: not convinced
Originally posted by pvaudo
I personally feel that warming up the car for extended peroids (5-20 mins) is OK, and my 93SE never complained in it's 200,000 miles either. Granted, there is such a thing as excessive idling, but they's talking about looooonger periods of time than a few minutes.
I personally feel that warming up the car for extended peroids (5-20 mins) is OK, and my 93SE never complained in it's 200,000 miles either. Granted, there is such a thing as excessive idling, but they's talking about looooonger periods of time than a few minutes.
Hell ... 10 minutes is a long time!
08-30-2002, 07:34 AM
#90
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 119
On a separate, but related topic: Once the engine is warm, does long, extended idling do any harm to it? I live in Houston, and I usually idle my Max with A/C on for 40-60 minutes while waiting for my kids (sports, school). Thanks in advance.
08-30-2002, 08:38 AM
#91
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 303
On a similar note...
Originally posted by LucentAUTO
well i guess this is why we all should buy a 2001 m3 and m5, it tells u when ur car is ready hehe
VOOomm
M POWER
well i guess this is why we all should buy a 2001 m3 and m5, it tells u when ur car is ready hehe
VOOomm
M POWER
M3 Letter from BMWUSA
Zam
08-30-2002, 12:11 PM
#92
Donating Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 608
Re: On a similar note...
Originally posted by Zam
Here's a letter in response to some problems with the E46 M3...
M3 Letter from BMWUSA
Zam
Here's a letter in response to some problems with the E46 M3...
M3 Letter from BMWUSA
Zam
Whoa!? Those Bimmers use 10W-60 oil! I've never heard of such a spread. Bill, Iwanna, Parker where are you guys? Help me understand how such an oil is good for any vehicle. It must be loaded with VIs right? 50 point spreads....my goodness!
08-30-2002, 12:40 PM
#93
Re: Re: On a similar note...
Originally posted by srbarnes4ever
Whoa!? Those Bimmers use 10W-60 oil! I've never heard of such a spread. Bill, Iwanna, Parker where are you guys? Help me understand how such an oil is good for any vehicle. It must be loaded with VIs right? 50 point spreads....my goodness!
Whoa!? Those Bimmers use 10W-60 oil! I've never heard of such a spread. Bill, Iwanna, Parker where are you guys? Help me understand how such an oil is good for any vehicle. It must be loaded with VIs right? 50 point spreads....my goodness!
The viscosity spread seems large, but it's not much more than a 0W-40 is. I also have a feeling that the oil falls near the extreme top of the 10W wt. range, and is closer to a 15W range. Since this oil wasn't really designed for longevity, but rather protection, how long the oil can maintain this viscosity spread isn't really an issue. On a side note, the large viscosity spread and the loose tolerances probably has a lot to do with why these engines drink oil more often. Those are some of my theories anyway.
08-30-2002, 05:58 PM
#95
Donating Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 608
Re: Re: Re: On a similar note...
Originally posted by iwannabmw
The orginal M3 was basically a street legal race car for it's time. The E36 compromised on this a little, and, at least performance wise, the E46 M3's are more "race" oriented than street oriented again. The S54 engines have more in common with an engine in a "race" car than a passenger car. They have very loose tolerances, and are purpose built this way, so a 60 wt. oil is what they should use. A motor of that size generating that amount of power needs a serious oil film to help prevent failure. It's definitely not your typical production motor, part of the reason why they seem to be grenading.
The viscosity spread seems large, but it's not much more than a 0W-40 is. I also have a feeling that the oil falls near the extreme top of the 10W wt. range, and is closer to a 15W range. Since this oil wasn't really designed for longevity, but rather protection, how long the oil can maintain this viscosity spread isn't really an issue. On a side note, the large viscosity spread and the loose tolerances probably has a lot to do with why these engines drink oil more often. Those are some of my theories anyway.
The orginal M3 was basically a street legal race car for it's time. The E36 compromised on this a little, and, at least performance wise, the E46 M3's are more "race" oriented than street oriented again. The S54 engines have more in common with an engine in a "race" car than a passenger car. They have very loose tolerances, and are purpose built this way, so a 60 wt. oil is what they should use. A motor of that size generating that amount of power needs a serious oil film to help prevent failure. It's definitely not your typical production motor, part of the reason why they seem to be grenading.
The viscosity spread seems large, but it's not much more than a 0W-40 is. I also have a feeling that the oil falls near the extreme top of the 10W wt. range, and is closer to a 15W range. Since this oil wasn't really designed for longevity, but rather protection, how long the oil can maintain this viscosity spread isn't really an issue. On a side note, the large viscosity spread and the loose tolerances probably has a lot to do with why these engines drink oil more often. Those are some of my theories anyway.
08-30-2002, 06:13 PM
#96
Re: Re: Re: On a similar note...
Originally posted by iwannabmw
The orginal M3 was basically a street legal race car for it's time. The E36 compromised on this a little, and, at least performance wise, the E46 M3's are more "race" oriented than street oriented again. The S54 engines have more in common with an engine in a "race" car than a passenger car. They have very loose tolerances, and are purpose built this way, so a 60 wt. oil is what they should use. A motor of that size generating that amount of power needs a serious oil film to help prevent failure. It's definitely not your typical production motor, part of the reason why they seem to be grenading.
The viscosity spread seems large, but it's not much more than a 0W-40 is. I also have a feeling that the oil falls near the extreme top of the 10W wt. range, and is closer to a 15W range. Since this oil wasn't really designed for longevity, but rather protection, how long the oil can maintain this viscosity spread isn't really an issue. On a side note, the large viscosity spread and the loose tolerances probably has a lot to do with why these engines drink oil more often. Those are some of my theories anyway.
The orginal M3 was basically a street legal race car for it's time. The E36 compromised on this a little, and, at least performance wise, the E46 M3's are more "race" oriented than street oriented again. The S54 engines have more in common with an engine in a "race" car than a passenger car. They have very loose tolerances, and are purpose built this way, so a 60 wt. oil is what they should use. A motor of that size generating that amount of power needs a serious oil film to help prevent failure. It's definitely not your typical production motor, part of the reason why they seem to be grenading.
The viscosity spread seems large, but it's not much more than a 0W-40 is. I also have a feeling that the oil falls near the extreme top of the 10W wt. range, and is closer to a 15W range. Since this oil wasn't really designed for longevity, but rather protection, how long the oil can maintain this viscosity spread isn't really an issue. On a side note, the large viscosity spread and the loose tolerances probably has a lot to do with why these engines drink oil more often. Those are some of my theories anyway.
08-30-2002, 07:11 PM
#97
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by Dave B
It seems that nearly every "non-car" person and even soon people in this forum think that the best way to warm up a car in the winter is to let it idle for 5-20 minutes. If these people only knew the damage they are doing to their motors. None seem to believe me when I tell them what happens by doing this poorly choosen warm up procedure. By letting a cold motor idle for a length of time, the oil does not circulate throughout the whole motor. Instead, it mostly "pools" around the lower half of the motor therefore increasing wear along cams and such. On a cold engine start up and under normal running temps, the ECU is running a very rich fuel program to make the engine warm up as fast possible. What does this mean for the motor? It means A LOT of fuel isn't getting burned and is seeping into the oil and degrading it quickly. Also, the rich exhaust will eventually foul the cat.
People just don't understand that you should start driving a cold car as soon as the oil pressure gets into the normal range which is about 30-60 seconds after start up. It sounds hard on a cold engine to begin driving nearly right away after starting it, but it isn't true. It is far less strenuous on the motor to warm up under load (ie driving). Why? Because the oil circulates better, the fuel program becomes leaner, and the increased tranny heat begins to help warm up the motor.
Why does this worry me? Because I will always buy used cars and you never know if the prior owner was misinformed about warming up a motor.
Dave
It seems that nearly every "non-car" person and even soon people in this forum think that the best way to warm up a car in the winter is to let it idle for 5-20 minutes. If these people only knew the damage they are doing to their motors. None seem to believe me when I tell them what happens by doing this poorly choosen warm up procedure. By letting a cold motor idle for a length of time, the oil does not circulate throughout the whole motor. Instead, it mostly "pools" around the lower half of the motor therefore increasing wear along cams and such. On a cold engine start up and under normal running temps, the ECU is running a very rich fuel program to make the engine warm up as fast possible. What does this mean for the motor? It means A LOT of fuel isn't getting burned and is seeping into the oil and degrading it quickly. Also, the rich exhaust will eventually foul the cat.
People just don't understand that you should start driving a cold car as soon as the oil pressure gets into the normal range which is about 30-60 seconds after start up. It sounds hard on a cold engine to begin driving nearly right away after starting it, but it isn't true. It is far less strenuous on the motor to warm up under load (ie driving). Why? Because the oil circulates better, the fuel program becomes leaner, and the increased tranny heat begins to help warm up the motor.
Why does this worry me? Because I will always buy used cars and you never know if the prior owner was misinformed about warming up a motor.
Dave
Your absolutly right Dave! Just don't run the RMP's up to high on a cold engine. Nice and easy until you reach normal engine Temp.
John
08-31-2002, 07:59 AM
#98
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 156
Re: Re: Re: not convinced
Originally posted by clee130
20 minutes isn't a "looooong" time to idle?
Hell ... 10 minutes is a long time!
20 minutes isn't a "looooong" time to idle?
Hell ... 10 minutes is a long time!
I think extended idling is NOT harmful, as long as you do some real driving as well.
08-31-2002, 08:16 AM
#99
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 9,159
Re: Re: Re: Re: not convinced
Originally posted by pvaudo
For everyday driving I agree.. I was thinking in the middle of winter, when I'm scraping off ice and cleaning around the car.
I think extended idling is NOT harmful, as long as you do some real driving as well.
For everyday driving I agree.. I was thinking in the middle of winter, when I'm scraping off ice and cleaning around the car.
I think extended idling is NOT harmful, as long as you do some real driving as well.
08-31-2002, 09:08 PM
#100
You're Faster, I'm Better
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 512
Originally posted by 95MaxSE
On a separate, but related topic: Once the engine is warm, does long, extended idling do any harm to it? I live in Houston, and I usually idle my Max with A/C on for 40-60 minutes while waiting for my kids (sports, school). Thanks in advance.
On a separate, but related topic: Once the engine is warm, does long, extended idling do any harm to it? I live in Houston, and I usually idle my Max with A/C on for 40-60 minutes while waiting for my kids (sports, school). Thanks in advance.
08-31-2002, 09:37 PM
#101
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,337
Originally posted by Dave B
Also, the rich exhaust will eventually foul the cat.
Dave
Also, the rich exhaust will eventually foul the cat.
Dave
CAT EFFECI UNDER THRESHOLD...dunno why i got that but now i guess my warmups could be why...whoops...btw, i usually give the car about 2-3 mins at most...
atw
09-01-2002, 07:31 AM
#102
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 156
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: not convinced
Originally posted by clee130
Did you even read the rest of the thread? Or the first post even? That's a lot of snow if you're out cleaning your car for 20 minutes. Even if there is a lot of snow, a couple of minutes should get the windows all heated up for you to clean it up and go.
Did you even read the rest of the thread? Or the first post even? That's a lot of snow if you're out cleaning your car for 20 minutes. Even if there is a lot of snow, a couple of minutes should get the windows all heated up for you to clean it up and go.
I don't know why this is such a big deal.. myself and at least one other poster reported putting 200,000 miles on these cars, idling certainly didn't cause any problem.
10-08-2002, 04:25 PM
#106
Originally posted by Dave B
It seems that nearly every "non-car" person and even soon people in this forum think that the best way to warm up a car in the winter is to let it idle for 5-20 minutes. If these people only knew the damage they are doing to their motors. None seem to believe me when I tell them what happens by doing this poorly choosen warm up procedure. By letting a cold motor idle for a length of time, the oil does not circulate throughout the whole motor. Instead, it mostly "pools" around the lower half of the motor therefore increasing wear along cams and such. On a cold engine start up and under normal running temps, the ECU is running a very rich fuel program to make the engine warm up as fast possible. What does this mean for the motor? It means A LOT of fuel isn't getting burned and is seeping into the oil and degrading it quickly. Also, the rich exhaust will eventually foul the cat.
People just don't understand that you should start driving a cold car as soon as the oil pressure gets into the normal range which is about 30-60 seconds after start up. It sounds hard on a cold engine to begin driving nearly right away after starting it, but it isn't true. It is far less strenuous on the motor to warm up under load (ie driving). Why? Because the oil circulates better, the fuel program becomes leaner, and the increased tranny heat begins to help warm up the motor.
Why does this worry me? Because I will always buy used cars and you never know if the prior owner was misinformed about warming up a motor.
Dave
It seems that nearly every "non-car" person and even soon people in this forum think that the best way to warm up a car in the winter is to let it idle for 5-20 minutes. If these people only knew the damage they are doing to their motors. None seem to believe me when I tell them what happens by doing this poorly choosen warm up procedure. By letting a cold motor idle for a length of time, the oil does not circulate throughout the whole motor. Instead, it mostly "pools" around the lower half of the motor therefore increasing wear along cams and such. On a cold engine start up and under normal running temps, the ECU is running a very rich fuel program to make the engine warm up as fast possible. What does this mean for the motor? It means A LOT of fuel isn't getting burned and is seeping into the oil and degrading it quickly. Also, the rich exhaust will eventually foul the cat.
People just don't understand that you should start driving a cold car as soon as the oil pressure gets into the normal range which is about 30-60 seconds after start up. It sounds hard on a cold engine to begin driving nearly right away after starting it, but it isn't true. It is far less strenuous on the motor to warm up under load (ie driving). Why? Because the oil circulates better, the fuel program becomes leaner, and the increased tranny heat begins to help warm up the motor.
Why does this worry me? Because I will always buy used cars and you never know if the prior owner was misinformed about warming up a motor.
Dave
Hey Dave B, pretty good explanation for a southern guy, another good thing to do is to plug the Block heater in winter it keeps the oil warm so when you crank the starter the oil pump is not rushing to get the molasse up in the engine.
Cheers
AA
10-08-2002, 04:25 PM
#107
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,835
Originally posted by GLE02NJ
Is there a final answer for this thread? We still haven't come to an agreement after 2 years! I need to know a final answer because next week I have to warm up the car before going to school.
Is there a final answer for this thread? We still haven't come to an agreement after 2 years! I need to know a final answer because next week I have to warm up the car before going to school.
BTW, to add my 2 cents in, the only time I warm up the car is when its freezing cold outside, and I don't want to freeze my fingers off while driving. But even then I'll warm it up for a minute and then go. Normally, I idle it long enough between the time I put on my seatbelt, release the brake, and change gears, which is like maybe 5 seconds.
10-09-2002, 07:13 AM
#110
Originally posted by killer2002SE
but isnt reving and racing the shiit outa the engine 'worse'??
i would think so..
but isnt reving and racing the shiit outa the engine 'worse'??
i would think so..
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