Detonation on 100 shot nitrous :advice (long)
09-23-2002, 01:46 PM
#1
Detonation on 100 shot nitrous :advice (long)
ok yesterday i was at the track.
besides for the 110 degree wheather it was fun. the weather was brutal on our maxes all day. i ran best et though 14.787 on 80shot=)
made a couple more passes on the 80 shot then when we took a break for lunch i switched my plugs and want to try 100 shot.
made one pass and the car kind of bogged down. so i was like ok shut down. went out for a road test everything was fine. i figured no problems. so i made another pass. 1st gear at 3K on the 100 shot i started spinning the tires. ops let of the bottle and waited till i got more traction. then i hit the button again pulle dnicely through 6k then i got of the bottle and let the tranny shift. 2nd gear i hit the button at like 3500 and it pulled hard untill around 4500 and then the car just slowed down and i heard some chunking sound in my exuast like a pepple just went trough it. rpm stoped climbing and i lost. so i shut down right away and cruise to the end of the track. i was so frustrated and overheated that i didn't bother to check anything. just sat down and chilled.
when i got home i decided to change the spark plugs back to my 1 step colder plugs. and when i pulled the plug from cyl 1 i had a nice surprise. there was about half of my ground strap left. and the ceramic insulator around the electroe was eatten away. if you look at the plug from the side all you can see is the electrode with no insulator and about half of the ground strap. cyl 2 i had the same problem. cyl 3 everything was intactbut the tip of the ground strap was warped and it has a bunch of carbon deposits on it. cyl4 i still had the ceramic insulator but half of the ground strap was gone.
so i know that i detonated. what i don't get is my gauges were reading
egt 1200-1300
and fuel pressure was at 85psi.
so what went wrong????
how bad could i have damaged the motor?????
what kinds of things sould i be checking on the motor???
any advise will be welcome.
i know i messed up by not just stoping when my car bogged down on the first run. all i can do now is find out what kind of condition my motor is in.
thanks
Frank
besides for the 110 degree wheather it was fun. the weather was brutal on our maxes all day. i ran best et though 14.787 on 80shot=)
made a couple more passes on the 80 shot then when we took a break for lunch i switched my plugs and want to try 100 shot.
made one pass and the car kind of bogged down. so i was like ok shut down. went out for a road test everything was fine. i figured no problems. so i made another pass. 1st gear at 3K on the 100 shot i started spinning the tires. ops let of the bottle and waited till i got more traction. then i hit the button again pulle dnicely through 6k then i got of the bottle and let the tranny shift. 2nd gear i hit the button at like 3500 and it pulled hard untill around 4500 and then the car just slowed down and i heard some chunking sound in my exuast like a pepple just went trough it. rpm stoped climbing and i lost. so i shut down right away and cruise to the end of the track. i was so frustrated and overheated that i didn't bother to check anything. just sat down and chilled.
when i got home i decided to change the spark plugs back to my 1 step colder plugs. and when i pulled the plug from cyl 1 i had a nice surprise. there was about half of my ground strap left. and the ceramic insulator around the electroe was eatten away. if you look at the plug from the side all you can see is the electrode with no insulator and about half of the ground strap. cyl 2 i had the same problem. cyl 3 everything was intactbut the tip of the ground strap was warped and it has a bunch of carbon deposits on it. cyl4 i still had the ceramic insulator but half of the ground strap was gone.
so i know that i detonated. what i don't get is my gauges were reading
egt 1200-1300
and fuel pressure was at 85psi.
so what went wrong????
how bad could i have damaged the motor?????
what kinds of things sould i be checking on the motor???
any advise will be welcome.
i know i messed up by not just stoping when my car bogged down on the first run. all i can do now is find out what kind of condition my motor is in.
thanks
Frank
09-23-2002, 02:08 PM
#3
I couldn't fix your brakes, so I made your horn louder
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,588
Re: Re: Detonation on 100 shot nitrous :advice (long)
yeah that was a helpful post..... what color were plugs? Compression test maybe?
I'm not to familiar with nitrious, but if you really did f something up bad on the motor ur compression test should tell you.
I'm not to familiar with nitrious, but if you really did f something up bad on the motor ur compression test should tell you.
09-23-2002, 02:37 PM
#4
Re: Re: Re: Detonation on 100 shot nitrous :advice (long)
Originally posted by seximagtr
yeah that was a helpful post..... what color were plugs?
yeah that was a helpful post..... what color were plugs?
ok so i only used these plugs for 2 passes where i shut down after i was about 1/3 of the way down the track. and a drive home about 30 miles.
ok
so spark plug colors
cyl #1 about half of the ground strap left. the tip of the remainig ground strap is black in color. looks like carbon deposits. the ceramic insulator looks like it chipped away about 2-3mm down.
the ring that the ground strap sits on has a slight rainbow like coloration to it. everything else on the spark plug looks brand new.
cyl#2 same as cyl # 1
cyl#3 everything was in tacted ceramic insulator is white in color and has little specks on it. the ring the ground strap sits on has a blue tint to it. the groud strao is brown in color and the tip has carbon deposits. and is black.
cyl#4 about half of the ground strap left. the tip of the remainig ground strap is black in color. looks like carbon deposits. ceramic insulators is white in color with barley any specks on it. bluish tint on the ring that the ground strap sits on.
cyl#5
cyl#6
plugs look fine little bit light tan in color. looks like normal plugs
hopes this helps better would really like to find out what may have happened
thanks frank
09-23-2002, 02:45 PM
#5
I couldn't fix your brakes, so I made your horn louder
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,588
Re: Re: Re: Re: Detonation on 100 shot nitrous :advice (long)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by jdmmax
[B]
sorry!?!?!
[\quote]
nah i was talking to the guy who posted b4 me... anyway, i'm not very good at reading plugs, there's better guys who can help you out better. Good luck
[B]
sorry!?!?!
[\quote]
nah i was talking to the guy who posted b4 me... anyway, i'm not very good at reading plugs, there's better guys who can help you out better. Good luck
09-23-2002, 02:48 PM
#6
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Detonation on 100 shot nitrous :advice (long)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by seximagtr
[B]
heheheh ok that was the same thing i was thinking... hahaha oh well i still need some useable advise HELP ME PLEASE
[B]
Originally posted by jdmmax
sorry!?!?!
[\quote]
nah i was talking to the guy who posted b4 me... anyway, i'm not very good at reading plugs, there's better guys who can help you out better. Good luck
sorry!?!?!
[\quote]
nah i was talking to the guy who posted b4 me... anyway, i'm not very good at reading plugs, there's better guys who can help you out better. Good luck
heheheh ok that was the same thing i was thinking... hahaha oh well i still need some useable advise HELP ME PLEASE
09-23-2002, 03:39 PM
#7
Moderator running more PSI than all the boosted Maximas... combined
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Posts: 6,345
I think you should be okay
If really blew something, you will know. The car would idle funny. Do a compression test if you are really worried. Are you running high flow pump? I would bump up the fuel pressure a little more. The engine can take more nitrous than NOS 100 shot. I ran 125 direct port a few times. I need to do more tuning since the match up I had was too rich.
09-23-2002, 03:48 PM
#8
Re: I think you should be okay
Originally posted by 1MAX2NV
If really blew something, you will know. The car would idle funny. Do a compression test if you are really worried. Are you running high flow pump? I would bump up the fuel pressure a little more. The engine can take more nitrous than NOS 100 shot. I ran 125 direct port a few times. I need to do more tuning since the match up I had was too rich.
If really blew something, you will know. The car would idle funny. Do a compression test if you are really worried. Are you running high flow pump? I would bump up the fuel pressure a little more. The engine can take more nitrous than NOS 100 shot. I ran 125 direct port a few times. I need to do more tuning since the match up I had was too rich.
i have a Sard fpr and a walbaro fuel pump. funny when i looked at the egt it seemed to be fine.between 1200-1300 degrees.
do you have a egt. im am thinking that maybe i mounted the probe wrong. where did you mount your probe. my buddy said for the spark plugs to be in the condition they are my egt sould have shot throught the roof.
09-23-2002, 07:29 PM
#11
Hmm, a 14.7 on an 80 shot doesn't sound all that good, you may have had problems before the 100 shot. Are you using 92 octane or better gas? How many miles are on your car? Ever have any fuel problems that you know of? The reason you had so much more damage in cylinders 1&2 is that is where the greatest concentration of nitrous flows, so they are more likely to go lean. 85psi of fuel pressure is not a set limit for a 100 shot, every car responds different, especially when you crank up the heat. Most people recommend putting the EGT probe in the exhaust manifold reading off of cylinder #1. If you read down the Y-pipe, you can get inaccurate readings, because you are combining all the exhaust together, and it is getting cooled by the air from your car across the Y-pipe. Granted I also ran my EGT off my Y-pipe, but I put full header wrap on it to keep the temps up. Does this make a big difference? I can't say for sure, but I never had detonation. Somethings not right though. Your car would most likely idle funny if you did anything bad. Wait till morning and try to start it. If it doesn't start, or has a lot of trouble starting, you probably blew a ring. Good luck and keep us posted. 
09-23-2002, 07:59 PM
#12
I had the same problem with the same set-up...only mine was just cylinders 1 and 2....ended up burning the piston rings. Compression read 60 and 80 psi in those two cylinders and normal in all the others.
09-23-2002, 09:12 PM
#14
ops this is how i was told to count the cylinders. if im wrong then correct me this way you guys know which spark plugs i am talking about:
6 5 4
1 2 3
front of car
ok now the probe was tapped right before the o2sensor on the part of the y pipe that connects to the front bank.
hmm so compression check and have my fuel system looked at maybe even cleaned????
and yeah 14.7 is not an incredibly awasome time on 80 shot. especially when wizzamax ran a 14.5 on his 55 shot zex kit. but then again later on in the day he was also averaging 15 i think.
racing in 100+ degree weather probably didn't help much. and i live in cali where they just down graded our fuel to 91 octane. have to search hi and low for a gas station that still has 92 octane. and 100 octane wow that stuff is expensive. the tech at nos said that 91 octane will be fine. i guess i won't be listening to them about that. is there an accurate air fuel gauge out there that would be worth the money to buy???? i hae a auto meter a/f gauge but i have also heard they are not the most accurate thing to be using. hhhhhh oh well i sould fe able to make some time this weekend. to do the compression test. thanks for the help everyone....
6 5 4
1 2 3
front of car
ok now the probe was tapped right before the o2sensor on the part of the y pipe that connects to the front bank.
hmm so compression check and have my fuel system looked at maybe even cleaned????
and yeah 14.7 is not an incredibly awasome time on 80 shot. especially when wizzamax ran a 14.5 on his 55 shot zex kit. but then again later on in the day he was also averaging 15 i think.
racing in 100+ degree weather probably didn't help much. and i live in cali where they just down graded our fuel to 91 octane. have to search hi and low for a gas station that still has 92 octane. and 100 octane wow that stuff is expensive. the tech at nos said that 91 octane will be fine. i guess i won't be listening to them about that. is there an accurate air fuel gauge out there that would be worth the money to buy???? i hae a auto meter a/f gauge but i have also heard they are not the most accurate thing to be using. hhhhhh oh well i sould fe able to make some time this weekend. to do the compression test. thanks for the help everyone....
09-23-2002, 10:08 PM
#15
Originally posted by 1MAX2NV
Cylinder 1 & 2? Is that the ones closer to the passenger side?
Cylinder 1 & 2? Is that the ones closer to the passenger side?
BTW jdmmax - don't be dissapointed in your 1/4 time....you probably just need better traction....I ran 14.0 on a 50-shot....and then ran 14.0 on a 100-shot....doh!
09-23-2002, 10:26 PM
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 107
Originally posted by jdmmax
ops this is how i was told to count the cylinders. if im wrong then correct me this way you guys know which spark plugs i am talking about:
6 5 4
1 2 3
front of car
ok now the probe was tapped right before the o2sensor on the part of the y pipe that connects to the front bank.
hmm so compression check and have my fuel system looked at maybe even cleaned????
and yeah 14.7 is not an incredibly awasome time on 80 shot. especially when wizzamax ran a 14.5 on his 55 shot zex kit. but then again later on in the day he was also averaging 15 i think.
racing in 100+ degree weather probably didn't help much. and i live in cali where they just down graded our fuel to 91 octane. have to search hi and low for a gas station that still has 92 octane. and 100 octane wow that stuff is expensive. the tech at nos said that 91 octane will be fine. i guess i won't be listening to them about that. is there an accurate air fuel gauge out there that would be worth the money to buy???? i hae a auto meter a/f gauge but i have also heard they are not the most accurate thing to be using. hhhhhh oh well i sould fe able to make some time this weekend. to do the compression test. thanks for the help everyone....
ops this is how i was told to count the cylinders. if im wrong then correct me this way you guys know which spark plugs i am talking about:
6 5 4
1 2 3
front of car
ok now the probe was tapped right before the o2sensor on the part of the y pipe that connects to the front bank.
hmm so compression check and have my fuel system looked at maybe even cleaned????
and yeah 14.7 is not an incredibly awasome time on 80 shot. especially when wizzamax ran a 14.5 on his 55 shot zex kit. but then again later on in the day he was also averaging 15 i think.
racing in 100+ degree weather probably didn't help much. and i live in cali where they just down graded our fuel to 91 octane. have to search hi and low for a gas station that still has 92 octane. and 100 octane wow that stuff is expensive. the tech at nos said that 91 octane will be fine. i guess i won't be listening to them about that. is there an accurate air fuel gauge out there that would be worth the money to buy???? i hae a auto meter a/f gauge but i have also heard they are not the most accurate thing to be using. hhhhhh oh well i sould fe able to make some time this weekend. to do the compression test. thanks for the help everyone....
1 3 5
2 4 6
front of car. This is the pattern of the spark plug ignition
09-23-2002, 10:44 PM
#17
hahahahah ok its all messed up well just use my little diagram and those are the ones that went.
and the other thing is i think as a average you east coast guys are running better times then us west coast guys. dude what gives
oh well who cares i look at it this way.
na i was running 16.1
70 shot i ran 15.1
80 shot i ran 14.7
100 shot D@mn near blew myself up.
so i guess i having fun with the kit.
and the other thing is i think as a average you east coast guys are running better times then us west coast guys. dude what gives
oh well who cares i look at it this way.
na i was running 16.1
70 shot i ran 15.1
80 shot i ran 14.7
100 shot D@mn near blew myself up.
so i guess i having fun with the kit.
09-24-2002, 07:14 AM
#18
Melted off plug ends are usually the result of a lean condition caused by poor distribution.
It's difficult to get great nitrous distribution on those older VQ30's for some reason.
How far from the TB is your nitrous jet? Is it wet or dry?
It's difficult to get great nitrous distribution on those older VQ30's for some reason.
How far from the TB is your nitrous jet? Is it wet or dry?
09-24-2002, 07:55 AM
#19
Originally posted by Nismo87SE
Your plugs were too hot for the n2o. A 100 shot IIRC should be run on cooler plugs and 98-100 octane if possible.
Your plugs were too hot for the n2o. A 100 shot IIRC should be run on cooler plugs and 98-100 octane if possible.
Frank, there is nothing wrong with the temp of plugs you have on there
good luck, buddy...
09-24-2002, 09:23 AM
#20
Originally posted by SR20DEN
Melted off plug ends are usually the result of a lean condition caused by poor distribution.
It's difficult to get great nitrous distribution on those older VQ30's for some reason.
How far from the TB is your nitrous jet? Is it wet or dry?
Melted off plug ends are usually the result of a lean condition caused by poor distribution.
It's difficult to get great nitrous distribution on those older VQ30's for some reason.
How far from the TB is your nitrous jet? Is it wet or dry?
i was suppose to gap them down right????? i had them at a .34 gap.
and the nitrous jet was about 5 in from the tb i had a cai mid pipe so i just used the hole where the temp sensor goes into.
09-24-2002, 10:57 AM
#21
Originally posted by jdmmax
i was suppose to gap them down right????? i had them at a .34 gap.
and the nitrous jet was about 5 in from the tb i had a cai mid pipe so i just used the hole where the temp sensor goes into.
i was suppose to gap them down right????? i had them at a .34 gap.
and the nitrous jet was about 5 in from the tb i had a cai mid pipe so i just used the hole where the temp sensor goes into.
09-24-2002, 11:04 AM
#22
arrrrrrrrgggggg!?!?!?!?!?!
i guess there are always problems. so maybe the fuel injectors are dirty i mena i do have a grip of miles. maybe there not running in top form. so are those fuel injector services at dealerships worth my time. or sould i think about new injectors. also i gonna need a compression test. damn can i get a compression tester at any autp parts store????
thanks again for all the help.
i guess there are always problems. so maybe the fuel injectors are dirty i mena i do have a grip of miles. maybe there not running in top form. so are those fuel injector services at dealerships worth my time. or sould i think about new injectors. also i gonna need a compression test. damn can i get a compression tester at any autp parts store????
thanks again for all the help.
09-24-2002, 11:32 AM
#23
I would get the Greddy A/F ratio gauge, it's around $260 or so, but it uses it's own 02 sensor and is much more accurate, it also reads anolog, rather than that stupid rainbow of the autometer. 
09-24-2002, 11:36 AM
#24
Originally posted by mtrai760
I would get the Greddy A/F ratio gauge, it's around $260 or so, but it uses it's own 02 sensor and is much more accurate, it also reads anolog, rather than that stupid rainbow of the autometer.
I would get the Greddy A/F ratio gauge, it's around $260 or so, but it uses it's own 02 sensor and is much more accurate, it also reads anolog, rather than that stupid rainbow of the autometer.
so does anyone want to buy my auto meter rainbow gauge hehehehehehe
so the greddy one is accually acurate??? just making sure before i dump another 260 into a guage.
09-24-2002, 12:32 PM
#25
Originally posted by jdmmax
arrrrrrrrgggggg!?!?!?!?!?!
i guess there are always problems. so maybe the fuel injectors are dirty i mena i do have a grip of miles. maybe there not running in top form. so are those fuel injector services at dealerships worth my time. or sould i think about new injectors. also i gonna need a compression test. damn can i get a compression tester at any autp parts store????
thanks again for all the help.
arrrrrrrrgggggg!?!?!?!?!?!
i guess there are always problems. so maybe the fuel injectors are dirty i mena i do have a grip of miles. maybe there not running in top form. so are those fuel injector services at dealerships worth my time. or sould i think about new injectors. also i gonna need a compression test. damn can i get a compression tester at any autp parts store????
thanks again for all the help.
don't worry about your injectors yet...do a compression test to make sure the motor wasn't damaged. You can get a compression tester at any auto parts store.
My personal advice if you're planning to go over an 80-shot again is to get the NX Wet kit....that's what I plan on doing...I already ruined one motor with a dry kit...and I don't plan on ruining a second.
09-24-2002, 12:34 PM
#26
Originally posted by BriGuyMax
I'm beginning to think that a 100-shot on a dry kit is not a good idea with 4th gen vq's. Seems like they don't get very good Nitrous distribution and at the higher nitrous levels it leads to a severe lean condition in SOME of the cylinders.
don't worry about your injectors yet...do a compression test to make sure the motor wasn't damaged. You can get a compression tester at any auto parts store.
My personal advice if you're planning to go over an 80-shot again is to get the NX Wet kit....that's what I plan on doing...I already ruined one motor with a dry kit...and I don't plan on ruining a second.
I'm beginning to think that a 100-shot on a dry kit is not a good idea with 4th gen vq's. Seems like they don't get very good Nitrous distribution and at the higher nitrous levels it leads to a severe lean condition in SOME of the cylinders.
don't worry about your injectors yet...do a compression test to make sure the motor wasn't damaged. You can get a compression tester at any auto parts store.
My personal advice if you're planning to go over an 80-shot again is to get the NX Wet kit....that's what I plan on doing...I already ruined one motor with a dry kit...and I don't plan on ruining a second.
right thats what i am gonna do as well i just contacted nx for the conversion kit.
09-24-2002, 12:40 PM
#27
What make you guys think that the NX will have better distribution than the NOS or ZEX? The distribution will still be uneven between cylinders no matter what kit you use. A direct port fogger is probably the best way to go.
09-24-2002, 12:50 PM
#28
Originally posted by SR20DEN
What make you guys think that the NX will have better distribution than the NOS or ZEX? The distribution will still be uneven between cylinders no matter what kit you use. A direct port fogger is probably the best way to go.
What make you guys think that the NX will have better distribution than the NOS or ZEX? The distribution will still be uneven between cylinders no matter what kit you use. A direct port fogger is probably the best way to go.
Some of us can't spend the $$ on a whole DP set-up when we already have an entire dry set-up.
09-24-2002, 12:51 PM
#29
But, when nitrous and fuel are being supplied by the same nozzle, this is not a problem. If the flow is lower for those last cylinders, that's ok. They may not get as much fuel, but, since the nitrous and the fuel are atomized togehter, they get less nitrous too. Less fuel + less nitrous = no lean condition.
so there is no truth in this statment made in another post????? it dose sound right ???
oh and i priced the conversion kit. $286 from nx for the fuel solenoid, fogger, jets, xtra line and fittings. and just use the rest of the parts from the NOS kit.
09-24-2002, 12:59 PM
#30
Originally posted by BriGuyMax
because with a WET KIT with un-even distribution you will get more nitrous AND more fuel in some cylinders and less of both in others. Therefore the risk of detonation will be gone.
Some of us can't spend the $$ on a whole DP set-up when we already have an entire dry set-up.
because with a WET KIT with un-even distribution you will get more nitrous AND more fuel in some cylinders and less of both in others. Therefore the risk of detonation will be gone.
Some of us can't spend the $$ on a whole DP set-up when we already have an entire dry set-up.
09-24-2002, 05:20 PM
#35
Originally posted by MardiGrasMax
The kits dont break motors. Impropper tuning and careless operation does.
The kits dont break motors. Impropper tuning and careless operation does.
09-24-2002, 05:22 PM
#36
Originally posted by SR20DEN
You don't have to buy an entire DP setup. Virtually all of those companies sell DP upgrade kits.
You don't have to buy an entire DP setup. Virtually all of those companies sell DP upgrade kits.
09-24-2002, 05:25 PM
#37
Originally posted by BriGuyMax
This may be true...but look at it this way; Why would I want to drill holes in my intake manifold....for pretty much the same "performance"? How is that going to look when I try to sell the car?
This may be true...but look at it this way; Why would I want to drill holes in my intake manifold....for pretty much the same "performance"? How is that going to look when I try to sell the car?
09-24-2002, 05:39 PM
#38
Originally posted by SR20DEN
Not as bad as it will look when you blow up the entire intake manifold because the engine backfired through it.
Not as bad as it will look when you blow up the entire intake manifold because the engine backfired through it.
Even better...show me a VQ that backfires period
09-24-2002, 05:51 PM
#39
Originally posted by BriGuyMax
Show me ONE maxima that ran a wet kit and had this happen..
Even better...show me a VQ that backfires period
Show me ONE maxima that ran a wet kit and had this happen..
Even better...show me a VQ that backfires period
Lucky for you I personally don't know of any 'Maximas' that did this. There arent really alot of them that use the single port wet kit vs. those who use dry. But I know plenty of other cars that did. I personally have had a DPI backfire through the manifold on my SE-R and shredded the intake hose. All I am saying is that you run into a different set of potential problems when you go with a single port wet kit. All of the scenarios are possible, just becasue it hasn't happend doesn't mean it wont. Although it would be great if it did not.