SteVTEC

Sorry VQ35 guys...you don't get to play. Go find some V8's to pick on ;-)

So anyways, I went though a lot of the STOCK dyno plots posted or linked at this site and finally compiled some comparison graphs between the Gen4 (95-99) VQ30DE (190HP) and the Gen5 (00-01) VQ30DE-K (222HP), which are below.





Below 3000rpm, the two engines are pretty similar in terms of power output. At 3000rpm and above, the DE-K averages about 10-12 more HP than the DE until about 5500rpm where the DE starts to fall flat on its face, and the DE-K really pulls away with the variable intake manifold cross-over at just past 5000rpm.

So which one is faster?

Well, we need to then consider WEIGHT!

SteVTEC

As we know, the 5th Gens weigh approximately 200lb more than the 4th Gen's do. So their extra power and torque is at least partially nullified, and this is reflected below after compensating for that.





So it's pretty much a dead heat.

The 5th Gen's still have more pull up top thanks to the VIAS, so one could argue that the 5th Gen's really are faster, but you have to also consider unsprung weight in the form of wheels. The 4th Gen's had 15-16" wheels vs the 5th Gen's 16-17" wheels. Larger wheels are heavier and they are rotating masses which require energy to spin. I forget exactly the rule, but I think it's something along the line of for every 1 pound you add to your wheel + tire combo's overall mass, that equates to something like 8-10 lb of equivalent curb weight.

This is not reflected in the charts, but it would give the 4th Gen's even better performance all around. But not by enough to overcome their massive power deficit compared to the DE-K above 5500rpm.

The 4th Gen's will feel peppier around town and at lower speeds, while the 5th Gen's are the highway beasts that will really knock em dead at higher speeds.

The crossover point seems to be right around the 1/4 mile, because both the 4th Gen's and 5th Gen's seem to put down about the same ET's stock for stock, mod for mod, with the 5th Gen maybe getting a 1-2 mph higher trap at the line. This is where the 4th Gen appears to lose its edge and run out of breathe, meanwhile the 5th Gen keeps on pulling with the VIAS.

In the end, it's pretty much a dead heat and I think this comparison more or less proves that.

Hope you enjoyed reading

JMAXIMA

great write up... kinda shocked how smooth the 5th gen power/torque curves are compared to ours... liked the power/weight comparison too. maybe when there is more info you could do a 4th gen comparison with the variable intake to a 5th gen(2k-2k1 of course)

SteVTEC

Yeah that would be a neat thing to do. The problem is that most of those guys playing with the 4th Gen VIAS already have tons of other mods so it'd be nearly impossible to do.

Unless somebody with a completely stock 4th Gen hooked one up and dynoed it

KINGMAX

Great write up man. You seem to have some of the most informative and interesting posts on the org. So when are we going to see the camry v6 vs. the 4th gen dyno charts.

Iilac

iTrader: (65)

I really like that power curve of the 2k and the 2k1 vq. It is so linear.

ivolley

iTrader: (1)

Great write up Steve, so it appears if you are a stop light to stop light racer or just a 1/4 mile guy you can be happy without the VI. I have wrestled with the VI purchase and I am going to get it soon, but one thing is certain after 5500rpm are horsepower disappears drastically. I have not driven a 5th GEN but I have driven a VE 5sp and the infamous butt dyno said it had much more pull up top the the VQ, can you possibly overlap a VE stock dyno.

Great post

SteVTEC

Thanks all for the compliments

Yeah I was looking at that, too. I was going to include it but wanted to just make this Gen4 vs Gen5 since there were a lot of flame wars in the past about this. hehe. Maybe I'll do another chart later comparing all 3 of those 3.0 engines. Sorry, VG's don't get to play

Here's Lordrandall's 92 SE VE30DE dyno from the dyno forum.

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....hreadid=128478


Unfortunately, the VE redline is 6000rpm I guess with the limiter shortly after that, so it's tough to compare directly. But at 6200rpm the VE is still making about 155 fwhp whereas the VQ30DE is falling below 140 fwhp. VE top-end with the VTC's and variable runners is definitely better than the VQ30DE with variable nothing.

BBaker025

iTrader: (1)

were these both auto/5spd or diff trannys?

MAXIN

iTrader: (5)

vedy interezting indeed...slap a VI on the 4th and...

Sprint

iTrader: (10)

steve i got some more work for you..

4th Gen MEVI vs DE-K

SteVTEC

For this comparison I used 5spd vs 5spd dyno's. I always try to use manual dynos because with the automatics, you can't see the low-end properly (because they downshift).

Yes, I think an otherwise stock 4th Gen with the MEVI would lay the smack down on a 00-01 Maxima pretty easily, but then it ain't stock as far as USDM spec goes. Oh well

It's still a very neat and useful mod, though

SteVTEC

who has a 4th gen with *just* MEVI on it?

Find me a G4 MEVI dyno and then a G5 dyno with mods that are as close to the G4/MEVI as possible and I'll take a look at it.

Sprint

iTrader: (10)

i can't find graphs right now.. but i got numbers

95 5spd with bolton's and MEVI
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?threadid=136409

2001 AE 5spd with bolton's
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?threadid=152627

Y2KevSE

iTrader: (13)

You didn't need data to tell DE-Ks are faster.

SteVTEC

I think we got our answer with Nealoc187's 13.999. I don't think there are any 00-01 DE-K's in the 13's all motor, are there? Those 60's were insane though!

Anyways, 4th Gen's and 5th Gen's (00-01) are already nearly dead even as far as 1/4 mile times go both stock and modded. Throw the MEVI on a 4th Gen and you easily have a winner

You ought to change your screen name to VQ30DE-Kev

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

I have both 4th and 5th gen Maximas, and what you say above describes my cars exactly. At least until I supercharge the 4th gen.

Great post, btw!

Loe max

iTrader: (6)

Something about this thread just made me get out my magazines with 5th generations tested...

Car and Driver June 1999
2000 Maxima SE 5speed manual
0-60 7.0
1/4mile 15.6@91mph

MotorTrend July 1999
2000 Maxima SE 5speed manual
0-60 6.7
1/4mile 15.1@94.4mph

Road and Track May 2000
2000 Maxima SE 4speed automatic
0-60 7.8
1/4mile 15.8@88mph

Observation with all these test: With the picture of the engine bay, it clearly shows all these Maxima's are Cali-spec Maxima's which put down less power(About 10fwhp less). There are 4 plugs located on top of the exhaust manifolds in front of the engine Vs. 2 plugs on non-Cali-spec Maxima's

nismo2020

iTrader: (1)

for some reason mismosh was running one step colder

Mishmosh

iTrader: (3)

Damn Courtesy Nissan sold them to me as being stock plugs when I didn't know any better. Will re-dyno when I put in JWT ECU maybe... Will probably dyno stock then JWT ecu--will make for a nice comparo.

edit: with stock heat range plugs now

nismo2020

iTrader: (1)

let us know how she does then.

costcowholesale

iTrader: (12)

I think the cross over point is a little after 1/4, no?? since most of the fast 4th gen passes the line at beginning of fourth gear??

James12345

VE redline isnt 6k.

It's like....6600 or so...

And I cant get Randy's dyno to load

Dave B

I just noticed that the 2K VQ HP curve is shaped exactly like my 4th gen's with my VIM. The only difference is I'm making +10fwhp over the 2K at all RPMs below 6200rpms. After that, the 2K makes a couple more HP than me from 6200-6400rpms. I'm even at 6500rpms. Of course I'm not stock though. I've got a VIM, intake, y-pipe, UDP, and B-pipe, but like I've said before, power to weight is a *****. My power to weight ratio (using FWHP) is ~15.6:1 compared to the 2ks ratio of ~17.4:1.

Max_Gator

Shouldn't the effect of the unsprung weight from different size rims be reflected in the dynos?

pezking4

How about a comparison of a VQ30DE with only the MEVI and the VQ30DE-K? Is there anyway we can see that? And I would kind of like to see some nice friendly VE vs VQ charts

Dave B

I would like to see a VQ vs VE dyno too and maybe that will dispel the myth that the VE pulls straight to redline.


Dave

95maxrider

iTrader: (32)

why is the 5th gen dyno so much smoother than the 4th gen one? shouldnt the only difference be after the VI kicks in at 5000?

and im also interested in seeing the VE v. VQ

pezking4

There's no myth. Why is it hard to believe an engine can pull hard all the way to redline? The VQ does it after you put the VI on it.

Sprint

iTrader: (10)

VE has a VI too

pezking4

I know, I drive one...
I was just saying the VQ would pull to redline just like the VE if it also had a VI

Dave B

I've never seen a VE dyno showing the motor making power straight to the 6500rpm redline. All the dynos I've seen show power peaking around 5600-5800rpms and then falling. Not exactly what I can "pulling to redline". The US-spec VQ will run to redline all day long, it's just that it's making no real power after 5600rpms.

Here's some proof and all the VE dynos seem to show the same thing:

http://www.ee.utulsa.edu/~mblehm/pic...eline_dyno.jpg


Dave

Nismo87SE

That is true, however the VE does hold the power after 5500rpm better than a non VI VQ does. The VQ still owns the VE though, however dynos show that the VI causes a 6-10wtq loss from 3300-4800rpm. That in effect gives it the same torque curve as the VE. It is only after 6000rpm that a VI VQ makes more than a VE would.

pezking4

That's basically all I was saying, and also advocating the MEVI a lot too. If you go ride in a VE 5 speed you will feel what I'm talking about; it just seems to never want to stop climbing up the tach.

96_vqmax

iTrader: (16)

great write up man,you think maybe you could do a ve,de vs de-k,

carnal_c30

iTrader: (38)

didnt Nabils '95SE 5spd dyno 193hp with Y-Pipe, hybrid intake, and exhaust?

I'm sure some of the SoCal guys will verify this

now he's running a VI and damn it is FAST!

Dave B

Unfortunately for us, the Cali guys rarely test their cars in the 1/4 mile and when they do, they correct their ET/MPHs This gives us nothing to work with except buttdynos and skewed data. They should just say "I ran a 15.2@91mph at 2500 feet above sea level" and not "I ran a 14.5@95mph....corrected". If they are allowed to post their ET/MPHs in corrected form, then all of us should be doing the same thing.

Dave
14.41@99.5mph....corrected (pre-VI)

Dave B

The VIM seems to smooth out the torque curve of the VQ. Why? I don't know. Maybe the runners are slightly shorter. The VIM-VQ cuts off the two humps in the torque curve where all US-spec VQs get their peak torque. In around town driving, I use to be able to a feel a kind of turbo-like rush from 3000-4000rpms. With the VIM, it's not there. When it comes to track racing, that drop in torque will not affect ET because, if you're driving right, you don't spend anytime from 3000-4500rpms, expect in 1st. BTW, I lost 7-8fwtq Of course of the VIM the pull after 5000rpms is very impressive. The car feels much smoother in the upper RPMs.

The torque curve of the VIM-VQ and the VE are similiar, but the VQ will be making on average about +10-15fwtq from 2000-5500rpms over the VE. After 5500rpms, the VIM-VQ has a huge advantage.



Dave

Sprint

iTrader: (10)

Sprinty
11.9@115.3 mph corrected (10 PSI)

Y2KevSE

iTrader: (13)

10 psi in your tires?