Rob'sAE

WHY ME?! The body shop (Tejas Toyota Collision) has had my car for 7 months. I just dropped off the car yesterday for the 3rd time for them to fix what was broken in my accident. On top of that there are numerous "new" fixes. My entire left side is littered with door dings, leaving nice black gouges along the door strip. There is a somewhat large(quarter size) dent/scratch on the roof above the left rear door. The whole bumper and grill assembly can still be shaken with my hand. Tree sap all over the roof and trunk. My battery died and will no longer hold a charge(which they say is my responsibility when they have been the ones with my car for the last seven months). My auto window switch does not work. Someone also backed up into something and bent one of my tailpipes down(guess they didn't think it had enough down turn already). And to put icing on the cake, last night the Houston area experienced rains along the lines of that tropical storm we had about 1 1/2 years ago. Guess what? ..... My car was flooded. I am so ****ed now. This would never have happened if they fixed it right the first time! After they guy called me I cried. I went up there and took some videos. The water got up into the car and to the bottom of the front seats. Water did not get up into the dash board, no water in the oil or tranny fluid. No electronics got wet(except what might be under the seats). I really want to keep it, I love that car I want to know if I can sue their a$$es. They d!cked around on my car for seven months, and would not have been there if they would have fixed it right to begin with. Also correct me if I am wrong, but when you leave your car at a shop or dealership and you hand them the keys don't they become legaly responsible for any and everything that happens to it? The reason I ask is they say it has to go on my insurance. That cannot happen, I will then become uninsurable(my original car flooded out in the troplical storm we had about 1 1/2 years ago and this last accident). That will be 3 major claims against my insurance in 2 years. Any and all advice or suggestions will greatly be appreciated. I am fixing to go off in a bad way this **** keeps going on like this!

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

You can politely ask them to fix the car as they were compensated to do so by the insurance company. You can also call the insurance company and give them this spill, as their muscle may help.

If that fails, go retain a suit and play hardball.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

After this much bs and damage has been done to your car, it's quite clear that getting a quality repair job from these morons is impossible. As much trouble as it might be, I say it's time to persue legal action. Don't say crap to the dealer yet. Try to document EVERYTHING and consult a lawyer to see where you stand and what documents you can get out of the dealer to strengthen your case. Because once the dealer knows you are going to sue them,they won't give you crap. Ps. get you car outa there before serving them also. Take pictures of all the damage before you move it to document the shape of the car when they had it in their possession

Rob'sAE

I've got better than pictures, I've got CAMCORDER!! I did a walk around the car the day after it got to the body shop, the day I dropped it off the second time, the third time, and this morning after it flooded. I do have another question, I have an attorney handeking the PI part of my accident, would I be able to use another attorney for all this cr*p? Or am I obligated to stay with the first being that everything is somehow related? I will also post the letter I gave them yesterday when I dropped off my car.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Dunno, it might be cheaper and easier just to use the same attorney. Good luck. No one should be treated this crappy.

Bags

iTrader: (3)

have you contacted your insurance company?

was this place recommended by them? if so tell your insurance company about it.. and see what they say

also who is your insurance company?

Please do not say travelers

SuDZ

Sometimes making a complaint with the BBB can light a fire under their butt too.

SuDZ

Rob'sAE

I am filing a complaint with the BBB, I have contacted a local TV station, they have a "Defenders" team that gives "good" bad publicity to places like this. I am waiting back for an attorney at the law firm used to work at call me. No, this is not a place recommended by Allstate. I got sold by the guy to take it there instead of someplace that I already knew did beautiful work. (I know I know I know, If it's not broke don't fix it.) I am paying for my bad decision but you have to draw a line. I am getting a splintered and broken broom stick. It has to end very soon because I am loosing almost 2k a month from lost business and a car note on a car I can't drive. They WILL regret ever meeting me. In the words of a famous man(don't remember who) "I walk quietly but carry a BIG stick!"

Another thing I thought of, maybe God just doesn't want me to drive his chariot...

Bags

iTrader: (3)

yes he does.. he is just making sure you appreciate it more

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

Perhaps you should get his new chariot: a Silver CL-S auto

Rob'sAE

I am not an Acura person.

Bags

iTrader: (3)

but russ is

Rob'sAE

October 27, 2002
In regards to: 2001 Nissan Maxima
Jeff
Tejas Toyota Collision Center
17100 Eastex Frwy.
Humble, TX 77338

Dear Jeff Bush:
This letter is in regards to my vehicle receiving collision work at your collision center over the course of the last seven months and to inform you of my possible future actions. To start off with, I am very dissatisfied with the services performed. The amount of time and money that has been put into the repairs on my vehicle in no way represent the quality of work that I have received. On Monday, October 28, 2002 I will be dropping my vehicle off for the 3rd time in an attempt to have my vehicle repaired. Every time I have come to check on or pick up my vehicle from you there are even more damages done to my car. My vehicle was in pristine condition before the accident. After 6 ½ months at your facilities I now have scratches, dents, tree sap, and destroyed paint along with sub par repairs. I have a video tape I made 1 day after you received my vehicle for repairs which shows none of the “extra” damages that are now on my vehicle. Following this letter will be a list of damages from the accident along with all of the “extras” that are to be repaired. You will have 7 days from receiving my vehicle on Monday, October 28, 2002 to finish the repairs. I believe that the time and money that has already been put into my vehicle has already exceeded what is considered normal and is above and beyond what should be considered quality service. After that I will be forced to pick up my vehicle and take it somewhere else to finish repairs, in which you will be responsible and be directly billed for. I will also take action(s) towards Tejas Toyota Collision Center for my loss of use and income derived from the inability to provide a timely and professional service. I will also file a formal complaint with the Better Business Bureau and escalate this to the top levels of Tejas Toyota. I have already consulted my attorney and these courses of action are well within my rights as a consumer. Unfortunately I have to return my vehicle to you one more time before pursuing these courses of action. The following will now list what repairs are to be made.

Things to be repaired along with additional information:
1. Glass is still in right rear door. Glass can be heard when shutting the door.
2. Right fog light does not have proper light beam pattern. Enclosed are some pictures of a stock 2001 Nissan Maxima facing a wall. The first picture is with fog lights on only; the second is including headlights also. Unless the fog lights match what is in the picture I will not accept it as repaired.
3. Front ground effects are cracked and scratched. These pieces are to be either repaired or replaced to factory OEM fit and finish.
4. Splash guards under front of car and inside fender wells do not have proper fitment and/or support. These splash guards are loose, not properly mounted, and do not have correct fasteners.
5. The car pulls to the right very badly. In order to keep the car straight the wheel must be slightly turned to the left. If doing 60 mph and the steering wheel is let go of, the car will move right 1 ½ lanes with in a 5 second period. This indicates that there is something still out of factory specifications on the car. The car did not do this before the accident and will not be acceptable if it continues to do so.
6. The front bumper assembly including the grill is still loose. It is unacceptable that I can walk up and shake the dust off of the front of my car with little effort. This too must be repaired/replaced to factory fit and finish.
7. The front left rim that was replaced was done so with a damaged unit. I now do not care who or how my rim is replaced. If your source(s) cannot provide a timely and quality product/service for you then I ask for full reimbursement for that rim so that I may go and get one of acceptable quality.
8. The front left quarter panel has waves underneath the clear coat and will not be accepted. There are also scratches and chips on this fender as well. If a vehicle is to be repaired it would be nice to keep it that way until delivery.
9. The hood has excess clear coat built up along the leading edge. The hood also has several scratches down to the primer and/or metal along the left side. (While facing the car.)
10. There is a dent/scratch above left rear door on the roof. My video of the car shows that this was not there before and it needs to be repaired.
11. Several scuffs in the paint along the right rear door and quarter panel were also added to my vehicle while under your care. These will also need to be repaired.
12. Tree sap is all over the top of my car from the roof to the trunk and onto the rear bumper. Tree sap damages car paint and will need to be removed/repaired.
13. Along the bottom of the front right door is some damaged paint caused by an unknown substance. My video and pictures shows that this was also not on my car before its extended vacation from me.
14. During the time my car was with you it developed several electrical problems. Multiple fuses were blown when I picked up my car for the second time ranging from the instrument cluster and interior lighting to windows. My driver’s side window also has an automatic up/down function which no longer works in either direction. (The window is auto down as well as auto up)
15. My battery has also seemed to lose the willingness to hold any type of charge. After filling the battery with distilled water and charging it for 12+ hours it is still unable to start my car without need of jumper cables. This needs to be replaced with an OEM battery to replace the original that was damaged.
In my original communications with Joe I asked for all replaceable parts to be replaced with factory OEM parts. When I arrive to pick up my vehicle I would like to have some sort of confirmation that all the parts is/are OEM originals. I would also like to have a detailed work order specifying what work was done, which parts were repaired, which parts were replaced, and what processes were used when repairing and/or refinishing them. Again I am severely upset with the quality of work that was done. The personnel that I have communicated with acted very nice and professional but unfortunately the work has not lived up to the promises made. I will be keeping very close tabs on my vehicle during these 7 days and be calling for status updates.

I would also like to ask that you sign and date a copy of this letter and return it to me. By signing you are just acknowledging the fact that you have received this letter and have read it completely.

Thank you,
Robert Bowers
R-Tech Computer Consulting
R-Tech@ev1.net

SuDZ

I know it does not help you much here but it might save someone else. If you were to make a copy of the letter with your experiences and post it in the section of the forum that deals with dealers and other companies, it might make someone who was going to go there think otherwise. You can at least save some people from having to deal with this the way you did.

SuDZ

Scruit

I AM NOT LICENSED TO PRACTICE LAW IN THE UNITED STATES. THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE (thus is just my opinions as a private citizen)

When a vehicle is accepted for repair at a shop they have what is called an "Ordinary duty of care" because their posession of the car benfits both of you (quality of service in this one case aside!) because the agreement is you get a fixed car and they get paid.

See sidebar at the end for standards of duty of care.

While the vehicle is in the posession of a party that is held to an ordinary duty of care they cannot be held liable for events such as theft, vandalism or Acts of God (weather damage) UNLESS you can show that they FAILED in that ordinary duty of care.

You would have to show, for example, that they left the vehicle unsupervised and unlocked with the keys in to hold them liable for it's theft. In the case of storm damage, you would have to prove something like;

- They left the windows open in the rain
- They had plenty warning of severe weather and did not attempt to protect the vehicle (ie 24 hours notice of a hurricaine)
- The storm was not severe enough to damage the car, and therefore such damage indicates some kind of negligence. (were other cars similarly damaged? If not, why not? What did they do with your car that left it at greater risk that other vehicles? If this different treatment considered negligence? Did they leave ONLY your car outside the building?)


Given the information I have (as unfair as it sounds) I believe that they are not liable for the storm damage to your vehicle. It would have to be covered by your insurance.

Mind you... Are you saying the storm caused standing water and that is what damaged your car? If there was NO standing water then how did it get wet? Even without knowing the exact cause of the damage - proof that there was no standing water (which a natural event that they cannot be blamed for) means that the car MUST have been damaged by something other than standing water (which is something that you may get a judgement in our favor for) For example, are they at the top of a hill? Does the parking lot design make it impossible for 18" of water to stand?



As far as electronics... The things that I would be most concerned about if the water reached the driver's seat base;

1) The BCM (Body Control Module) computer which is mounted under the center console armrest/crap tray at floor level
2) All the wires that criss/cross the floor under the carpet. If they are not exhibiting problems now, watch out for corrosion at connectors in te next few years.
3) As high as the front door speakers?


Sorry about your problem. I feel for you man!



SIDEBAR: You give something that belongs to you to someone else temporarily. The reason for you giving that thing to him determines how great his legal responsibility to protect it is.

- If the temporary posession was ONLY for YOUR benefit (ie free storage) they would have almost no duty of care.

- If the posession was only for their benefit (they borrowed a monster truck to sit outside their dealship to attract customers, and you didn't request payment) then they have a supreme duty of care.)

- Ordinary duty of care means the level of care that you would treat one of your own posessions that is not a 'prized posession' (like a vintage/exotic car or jewelry with mostly sentimental value)

Examples: Take your computer monitor. We all have one. It's not a prized posession. You wouldn't leave it out in the garden overnight because it would quite obviously be damaged - if you sent it in for repair and the repair place did that then they would have failed in their ordinary duty of care and would be liable for the damage. Similarly, if you have a prized Larborghini that you waxed every week, and you asked a friend of yours to store it for free while you went on vacation for a month (ie ONLY for YOUR own benefit, not for his), then he is certainly not expected to wax it every week. He's not even expected to garage it. Heck, unless he leaves the keys in the ignition he is probably not even liable for it being stolen from his driveway in broad daylight.

Frank Fontaine

The dings are 100% normal, unfortunately. That's the auto body shop biz. It is a dead-giveaway that a vehicle has been repaired, so when looking at used cars be sure to have it spotless and take a careful glance at an angle in direct sunlight.

The only thing I can figure is most people could care less because they keep the car less than 3 years and lease anyway. The unsuspecting used car buyer is the one who ends up with the bondo'd junk imho. Body man keeps on doing his magic, cheap job for top $. Ever notice what those shys drive? Usually very German, no?

Rob'sAE

Ok, I understand all of that. What would be the case with these details.
1. The lot has flooded before, it is known to flood to some degree during hard rain, although not this severely.
2. 4 customer cars were flooded out, 80 in the used car lot.
3. If they fixed my **** to begin with it wouldn't have been there.
4. The general manager told me himself in front of my wife, quote;"When I left last night at about 9:00pm the water was already half way up my wheels."
5. The entire gulf coast area has been under a flash flood watch for the last week and a half. We have been getting a 100% chance of rain for 4 days straight.

With all that said, it is obvious that there was no precautions taken to protect any vehicles. Also, should they have not told me and other customers that the lot was prone and known to flooding problems? These guys are killing my car, and now I have to take this **** too? Why is there no justice in this world. I am young and work my a$$ off for what little nice things I have and I am always loosing it to cr@p like this. Why?!?! Tell me now, do I have any legs to stand on with all of this or should I just prepare myself to sell my car as soon as it is fixed(if it is not totaled) because I can no longer afford to drive? (any way I can aim all this at the guy that caused the accident and started this snowball in hell?)

Scruit

Hmmm... Can you show that they could have easily fixed the propensity flood? Would a drain or drainage ditch help? Even a french drain?


Any chance you could find out who the other customers were. If you pool your resources and get a lawyer they may just settle.


Unfortunately, that's not relvant. To show negligence you have to show that the defendants actions would predictably result in the damages suffered. It is not reasonable to believe a long repair time will result in flood damage - whereas it IS reasonable to believe a car left with it's windows open in the rain will result in flood damage. See the difference?

Damn, if you could get this statement in an affadavit or (legally) on tape then you'd be home free. Even without proof, the fact that you both heard this statement (which you are going to write down with time/date/location right now, yeah?) could be presented to a judge and he would have to decide if you are telling the truth. He may or may not rule in your favor. And the bodyshop will know that. Consult your lawayer about how best to use that statement.

This is another important piece. If you can get written evidence of the flash flood warning (maybe contact your local weather station or National Office of Atmospheric Administration / NOAA station and ske for copies of the weather forecast/flash flood warning for those four days)

Even better of you can find a previous event in which customer vehicles were flooded and contact those owners for a written affadavit stating that their vehicles were flooded in the parking lot... That would show that it was reasonable to assume that the parking lot had a propensity to flood, and it was also reasonable to assume that the parking lot was at significant risk of flooding on the days of the flood watch, and that the GM saw that the parking lot had begun to flood - and they STILL didn't do anything about it. If they had warned you that the lot was liable to flooding then they could claim you accepted the risk of the flooding, so I'd prolly scoot on over there and film the lot with your camcorder to ensure there are no "Liable to flooding" signs up there - if I was defending this I'd put the sign up right now and some unscrupulous persons may even claim the sign was there when you brought your car...

If you can get all that evidence together and take it to your lawyer - I believe that would present a very strong case that the body shop did, in fact, fail in their duty of care. Your lawyer could best advise you on how to proceed. Ideally you want them to settle out of court, of course.

Consider also what you want from them. Do you want them to pay the fair market value of your vehicle? Post-accident? Do you want them to pay for repairing all the flood damage? Also make sure you ask for the loss of value from having a flood title (if you get a flood title)

Not a chance, I'm afraid. Is it reasonable to assume that his driving maneuve may result in your bad bodyshop experience? If I was the judge I'd certainly not consider that a valid argument. Sorry!

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

Wow. Scruit gets a "Free Flame" card for that kind of help.

Rob'sAE

I will do a walk around with my camcorder in a few hours to see. I will most definatly make note of drainage and such.




I can, I will get their plates and have have a "hookup" run them at the DPS.




Difference seen, just a thought.



I am going to get him to repeat it on tape. I have a microcasette recorder and in Texas only one party has to know about the recording.



Yeah, thats easy. Every news station on TV has been preaching flash flood for the last week straight at least.



This one will be tricky. I don't know how I could find out who previous flood victims are. I doubt that they will just tell me who they are.



Robert is on the case, I WILL get what is needed!



I want my car fixed. That is all I have ever wanted. No more, no less. Is this too much to ask?

Not a chance, I'm afraid. Is it reasonable to assume that his driving maneuve may result in your bad bodyshop experience? If I was the judge I'd certainly not consider that a valid argument. Sorry!

I've seen less get more. But oh well, his dinner plate is already being prepared.

Rob'sAE

Ok guys, I went to the shop yesterday to pick up my car. I walked around and took lots of video of the lot, front back and sides. There are several different elevations in the lot ranging almost 2 1/2 feet. My friend and I also talked to several people there on the lot and got them to talk about how the lot floods and is prone to flooding. We also talked to the general manager. I asked him about what kindof vehicle he had to where the water was halfway up the rims and he said a truck. My friend then comes in and asks what was that all about. Then the general manager starts going on and on about how right behind the dealership is a bayou and it is always overflowing. He also said that the lot floods in the back often. When asked why he did not call to notify anyone he said that at that time he did not think it was necessary because it always floods back there. We got almost 15 minutes of his jacking his jaw about how he has a jacked up 4 runner and it was halfway up his rims and how they never really expect it to flood all the way to the front of the lot. I also got ahold of an attorney that wants a meeting with me next week. He said that I have a strong case and was saying something about deceptive trade practices and neglegence and even possibly willfull descruction of property. He is an attorney that I used to work with at a firm who just started his own practice. (I think he wants to make a name for himself) I just can't believe how easy it was to get the guys at the dealership to just start jacking their jaws about everything. OMG, they took the broken splintered broomstick out of my hand and proceeded to r@pe themselves with it. If only they knew what was fixing to happen. I feel so good right now. I hope this all works out.

Scruit

Excellent work!

With evidence like that you have a VERY strong case. I refuse to believe the bodyshop's attorney will let that tape get anywhere NEAR a courtroom!

Colonel

You would hope so on this one. But the attorney might be of the same caliber as the.....nah...

Scruit...thanks for all the help. I have been able to derive ideas and thoughts about how to handle future issues.

Robs'sAE..best of luck to ya!

sleeper

never leave your car somewhere to be fixed for 7 months. hello. toyota? whats up with that. always go to a private reputable body shop, usually preferred by your insurance company. i just had to say that. now, call your insurance company and tell them the whole story. and do what they tell you to do, and don't try to make a deal with some other body shop on the side to save a few dollars, incase you need other damaged parts that can't be seen from the outside. the insurance company should give you legal representation, and would pressure them to fix your car if its their fault for the damage. request for them to go and check out your vehicle which they will probably want to do anyway. and just let them handle it. good luck and hope this advise helps.

Green 2kSE

Did you notice the Tejas Toyota ad in the Chronicle yesterday? It's titled "Wet Carpet Sale" and they state how 8" of rain flooded about 100 cars and now they are discounting them. FYI, the discounts weren't great at all.