RussMaxManiac

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/uhpas.jsp

T-bone

iTrader: (1)

It had better be #1 rated for THAT price.

Jamsan

iTrader: (2)

friend has em on his 2k2....says they are like glue on dry, great in the rain, and well we'll see about them in the snow soon

KyMAXSE

I just got a set and that is pretty much the best way to describe them. They are incredible, I am thinking of getting an RSB now just to see what it'll do.

BriGuyMax

iTrader: (1)

that's exactly what I was thinking....

Bags

iTrader: (3)

yeah for the money I would get toyo proxy's t-1s

deezo

iTrader: (3)

I'll stick with the Dunlop Sport A2's.

redmaxpa007

iTrader: (21)

Dunlop SS 5000...



but they weill be going soon.. (actually this weekend, they will leave my posession..)

CRMax

ditto.

Dave B

IMO, people are downright FOOLISH to throw down money like this on a set of tires. If you look at the survey, the Sumitomo HTR+ performs damn near as well as the Pilot. Look at the price difference though:

Pilot 225/50R16 $184
HTR+ 225/50R16 $88

I mean seriously, is it really worth an extra $100 for the Pilots for them to perform .1-.3 points better than the HTR+? Just like Nike's, you're paying for a name. I've run Sumitomos nearly exclusively on my Maxima and their incredible. I've run HTRZ IIs on my old 17s, HTR Zs on my K1s, and I'm currently running HTR 200s on my stock saw blades. Sumitomos cost about half what the major brands cost and if you read the surveys you'll see the Sumitomos usually outperform the more expensive tires in their category. You'll even read a ton of BMW owners praising the ability of these cheaper tires. I plan on getting HTR+s for my upcoming 17s. The 215/60R15 HTR 200s cost me $45 each where as the crap Goodyear RSA replacements were $105. The HTR 200s are like glue compared to the RSAs plus they're incredibly quiet and smooth riding. Interesting tid-bit about Sumitomo. They're partnered with Dunlop which is owned by Goodyear. This isn't an off brand.


Dave

Confused

iTrader: (4)

Amen, I am about to get the HTR+ to replace my HTRZ II's. I've been too long without all seasons for the NE.

MAX2000JP

Dont pay that much for the Pilots......You can get a very similar performing tire by going with the BFgoodrich G-force KWDS tire. They have great wet traction and handle great in the dry. They are even pretty compitent for road racing. Great tire, Great price

Also, if you want a great Summer tire...Tirerack has Yokohama AVS ES100's for dirt cheap. Nice tire with great dry weather traction.

mayhem_J30

that extra money goes towards LASTING performance. the michelon will withstand the heat cycling and have greater performance longer where the cheapo's will start out great but after heat cycles they become hard and not worth sqwat

NYCe MaXiMa

iTrader: (9)

Hmm, how much are they again?



HTR+s are going on my car..... I had them on my 3rd gen in 16" 2+ years ago and they are simply amazing tires for the $..... I have never got them to squeal on dry pavement, no matter how hard i pushed the car.. i never had to adjust my driving habits in the rain either, they grip excellent.. with these tires I can run my 17s in NY all year round without worries.

HTR+'s in 17's are 99$ for 225/45/17 and 102$ for 235/45/17... can't beat that.. such competitors like Pirelli P7000 supersports etc.. are over 40$ more per tire and the Sumitomos blow all of them out the water by a long shot....


Dunlop Sport A2s are another excellent performance tire, but they are just High performance all season ones, not ultra high... plus they don't come in a size bigger than 16"

Dave B

Believe what you want, but my Sumitomo HTRZs stuck like glue at 20K miles as they did the day I installed them. All the Sumitomos I've owned have been like this. Why pay 2X the price for the same exact performance. If you got then money then go for it. Even if I had the money, I wouldn't waste it on a set of any Michilen or Goodyear product. They're all junk IMO and usually end up wearing out quickly and riding like crap after 20K miles.


Dave

NYCe MaXiMa

iTrader: (9)

LASTING performance?

Lots of people report their 140$/tire Pirelli Supersport P7000s getting really noisy after 20k miles and wearing fast.....

If you read the chart, HTR+s have the same thread wear as those Michelins


It is no secret to anyone that Michelins are overpriced in general.

Sumitomos are a budget brand but they perform excellent..

Jamsan

iTrader: (2)

a little off topic, but I've been highly considering between just getting HTR+'s on my stock 16's, or summer rims/tires...obviously the HTR+ route is much cheaper, and acheives the same gain im looking for (better tracation), so what size should i get for my stock 16 SE rims ?

Dave B

If you are truely going to be running the 16s only in upper 40 degree weather, I suggest the HTR Zs. They're flat out amazing and are slightly cheaper than the HTR+s. The differences are:

HTR Z = summer tire, mind boggling grip, good wear, good ride, low noise, aggressive looking, low price

HTR+ = all season performance, excellent grip, excellent wear, good ride, very low noise, good looking, low price

The stock 16s are 215/55R16 and 6.5" wide. I recommend you stay with the stock size. I ran 225/50s on my 16" Kosei K1s, but the K1s were 7.5" wide and could use the extra width. Running a 225/50 on the stock 16 can be done, but I don't recommend it because the tire will be bulging at the sides.


Dave

mayhem_J30

i'm kinda skeptical about those ratings as they are posted by anyone who wants to. not everyone who purchases those tires and rated them knows as much as most people here...and educated people are the minority. tirerack should do their own testing and leave the rating system closed. all tires should be put on the same car/cars and long term tested. one persons opinion of tread wear may be totally different from anothers...just a thought. i will take people's opinions from forums like this over tireracks ratings.

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

I couldn't disagree more with a blanket assessment like that. 45k on my Michelin MXV4 and only my negligence is the reason the fronts are showing wear.


I prefer Michelins, as I've had good luck with them. My 20k-and-they-are-loud-and-ride-like-crap have applied to any Dunlop product I have used, but I don't believe all Dunlop tires are crap.



I do agree that spending $170+ on a tire is rather , especially if such Z-rated tires are exposed to the elements and cold a lot.

ericdwong

I never buy expensive tires just because I'll wind up roasting them off the rims in no time. Multiply that by 2 with the Quaife posi unit.

sleepermax

iTrader: (5)

The Pilot Sport A/S's are overpriced but not by much (by 20 bucks a tire maybe?). I think you really do get what you pay for, especially regarding tread wear. I've had mine for at least 10K miles and I honestly can't see any noticeable signs of wear yet. Nor has there been any noticeable decrease in performance - and I "test" them most every single day!

I've had SO3's before and they aren't much more sticky than the A/S's. But they'll wear out long before the A/S's do and aren't as good in the rain. I may try the Sumitomo's later on but there's GOT to be a reason why they are half the price of the A/S's, and it doesn't all have to do with marketing. My guess is longevity. They very likely will not perform as well, for as long, as the A/S's. I just can't help but think of some Kumho's I had. They were great for a couple of months but then they turned to crap!

By the way I had some Michellins last over 85K (still with acceptable tread left) on another car! So I'm pretty much sold on Michellins.

MAX2000JP

I have never had any luck with Michelins. They always seem to wear real fast. They are way overpriced and you are paying for the name. If I could get ahold of the november grassroots motorsports I would show you how a lot of cheaper tires outperformed the Pilots. I did a lot of research on tires and the KWDS's I have on my car are probably the best you can buy for the price. The A/S were 100 more per tire and barely outperform the KWDS's.

ericdwong

Yeah ummm... u DO know that BFGoodrich is made by michelin yes?

I too can attest the kdws tires on my 16" SE rims perform almost as good as the Michelin Pilot SX tires on my 17" Arrows.

Frank Fontaine

Yeah, if you did a survey, wouldn't you want an expensive tire to win if your job were to sell tires?

Funny how they never say 18" for $129!! Some su**** bought them from us before for $355! Some dude just came up to me last week outside of B'more told me my $129 rims are phat. That's because the style has come full-circle, they were '99 18" closeouts.

Pilot A/S is appropriate for an A6 4.2, not a Maxima imho. But if you got the coyne, spend away!

MAX2000JP

Yea I knew that for a while.....They are "partners" with BFgoodrich. Dont know what that really means though. I still think BF manufacturers the tires, though I am not sure.

srbarnes4ever

Good points Dave but I'm not (yet!) convinced that the argument is apples to apples. When I was looking for a set of rubber for my Mille Miglias, I did the Tirerack search like everyone else. I was looking for the absolute best YEAR round tire available. This included dry, wet, and snow traction due to Kentucky seeing its fair share of snowfall from time to time. When you look up the tires, there is no comparable option out there to the Pilot A/S when ALL 3 areas are considered. The Sumitomo's don't have a snow traction rating at all and while all the other subjective ratings are close, you can't directly compare the numbers because the 2 tires have never been tested against one another directly. All you have are people who have likely driven on one and NOT the other giving their 1 - 10 scale opinion. Its similar to trying to compare tread ratings between diferent manufacturers, its not a direct comparison. I'm with you that the Michellin is expensive, but its also the only tire on the market that has different TYPES of rubber on in the tread to allow for true all weather capabilities. It is also rated EVEN HIGHER than the Pilot Sport Max tire in wet weather capability directly on Michellin's own website. If you're looking for a summer/spring/fall tire than your argument (based on dollars) has merit, but for all year performance there is nothing to compare against. Just my $.02 worth.

Dave B

I understand what you are saying and where you're coming from. I do need to correct you though, the Sumitomo HTR+ is a ultra high performance A/S tire.

My experience has been the factory issue "big name" tires are crap. I had Michellin's on my old Accord and they were gone in 30K miles, I had Goodyear GSCs on my Z28 and they were gone in 25K miles (never abused the tires either, good grip though), my father had factory Goodyears on his 96 Tahoe and they constantly went out of balance and wore out in 35K miles and were very loud.

I'm not implying big name tires are junk, I just think you're paying for the name. I also agree that some of lower make tires are kind of junky. I'm not sold on Nitto or Kumho. It sounds like too many people have problems with those tires. I've tried three different types of Sumitomos in the past 4 years and I've always come away very impressed. You get a lot for the money. I just put a set Sumitomo HTR 200s on my stock 15s. Only two wheels needed weights. The other two were perfectly balanced. How's that for a well built tire? I'll also add that nearly all my Sumitomos have required minimal weight for balance.

As for the Tire Racks rating system, I like it. You have to sift thru some of the junk, but for the most part, the guys that reply, especially when you're looking for performance tires, know what they're talking about. Numerous reviews include their experience with the tire at the auto-X or 1/4 and include comparions to other tires.


Dave

srbarnes4ever

Yea after reading back through the posts I noticed that I had jumped around from the HTR+ to the Z rated summer version. I have always been one to buy my tires based on comparison test data as much as possible just so as not to get caught up in subjective comparisons. I'd really like to see a matchup of these 2 to see if I'm getting a $100 better tire! **** I could be my y-pipe among other things with the delta between these two! I agree that the rating system is useful, my only concern is that unless the persons tried the 2 tires back to back on similar (identical perhaps) vehicles then you can't take much data and cross apply it to another tire. Again your opinion is well respected her by myself and many others as you've always been objective and detailed in your opinions. I'd just like to see the two back to back in a Max. My tires have about 8500 miles on them with one rotation and there is NO discernable tire wear. I've used Dunlop 8Ks, Bridgestone RE730s, and Goodyears among others and nothing has approached the level of wet traction that this tire has. Perhaps I'll order some Sumitomo's for my other vehicle and see how they are in the all seaon version and how long they last. Matter fact I'll check into that today....certainly can't beat the price point!

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Kinda hard to justify such an expensive tire for a fwd, front heavy non-performance spec'd automobile like a maxima. I mean if you have a SupraTT, Z06, some seriously SR20det'd 240sx or similar, then yes. But $100 more a tire on a soft bushing'd snow plower like a maxima?

srbarnes4ever

Not sure what the type of car has to do with it Jeff. Tires aren't made for a type of car as much as for driving environments I think. So if you're looking for all season performance then why not consider everything from least to most expensive and decide based on your priorities which set to purchase. Keep in mind also that the OE 17" tires are expensive as hell but deal ol' daddy Nissan justified that size/brand for us....Worst decision they made by far I think. I actually have a 240 sx that I'd like to make into a seriously SR20det'd version though!

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Well, put it this way, the maxima is NOT set up for performance handling from the factory. You can change alot of things to make it better but you can't change the fact that most of it's weight it up front and the drive wheels are in front. Now spending that much more on a tire(IMHO) is not really justified in my mind. Even if you live in sunny CA, I couldn't really justify these tires. If I lived in the NW(which I do) again, I couldn't really justify these tires because it rains soo damned much. Personally, I look for good rain perfomance FIRST, then dry handling, then treadwear, noise, cost etc..

With expensive tires, the maxima is gonna plow, with less expensive tires, the maxima is gonna plow. With a high performance RWD, super sticky tires actually are justified a LITTLE more IMHO. Some cars COME with expensive hi-performance tires also.

The oem 215-55-17 maxima tires are expensive because it's such a goofy size and it's not widely available. NOT because it's any better than other tires. Actually everyone tells me the stock oem maxima tires suck!

srbarnes4ever

I understand your opinion Jeff. I don't fully agree but I understand your point on the stock abilities of the Max vs. a RWD sports car for example. I do think however that increased grip means increased grip in all cases so the Maxima might plow but if the tire is GOOD (not necessarily expensive) enough, then you should start speed and stop more effectively. I didn't mean to imply at all that the stock potenzas were good... In fact they sucked horribly in the wet IMHO, which is why I was more than happy to fork over an extra $50 per tire for Pilots versus anything names PotenzaRE92. Take care amigo!

deezo

iTrader: (3)

I've always said Michelin's were overpriced and overrated.

deezo

iTrader: (3)

Tirerack does there own test to provide the customers the tire rating. On another section of their site, they allow the customer to provide their experiences. The tire ratings definitely come from Tirerack's testing and not from the consumer.

MajesticBlueNTO

iTrader: (6)

I found this Tirerack test between:

Sumitomo HTR+, Pilot Sport A/S and P7000 SuperSport on 3 seperate Lexus IS300s with Eibach Springs and KONI Shocks

Qualitative Tire Review - text

Quantitative Tire Review - charts and numbers

MAX2000JP

Jeff is right....If you put S03s on a Town Car for example, it will grip better but it will still handle horribly. If you put S03s on a stock suspension Maxima, it will help but you wont be taking full advantage of the tires. In order to take advantage of them you need some suspension mods. I think Jeff was referring to the hi performance tires in a RWD car in a traction sense. The stickier tires will help prevent oversteer.

sleepermax

iTrader: (5)

Well after reading through this thread and the above comparisons I'm even more pleased with my choice of the A/S's. They are clearly the best performing tire (and unbelievably stable in rain). They may not be the most comfortable tire but they aren't bad, and you quickly forget about this when you're enjoying the crisp handling and braking they provide!

I look at it like this: what's a couple of hundred bucks when you think about how much enjoyment you'll get out of them every single time you drive, spread out over a period of years? Also, every Michellin I've had has had great tread wear so I'm positive I'll be enjoying great performance for a longer time. I mean these tires handle almost effortlessly in at-the-limit type of driving and show virtually no signs of wear YET!

There is no way the SO3's would have had the tread that the A/S's have at this point. And there is no way the Kumho's would have lasted (they tend to cup and get out-of-round very easily) with the kind of driving I've done (sometimes foolishly ). I'm not lumping the Sumitomo's in with Kumho's but I can't imagine many tires providing the performance, resiliency, and longevity that the A/S's have shown so far.

Cutler

iTrader: (3)

I got 55k out of my pilots on my 95, yeah that much. I am gonna put them on my 2k when the Nittos run out. Well worth the $800

TimW

iTrader: (6)

I'm so sick of these RE92s, I dont care with the A/S cost - I'm getting them. I want some predictability in dry/wet/snow. Not to take anything away from the lower cost tire, but I really dont mind spending more - even if the gains are marginal.

I disagree about wasting money on tires for a maxima. Once a maxima breaks traction, its over. How many guardrail stories have we heard when that rear steps out? If any car needs the grippiest tire out there, its a maxima. Especially if you have a RSB and run over a pebble on an exit ramp.