In-dash Pc on the way...OH BOY
03-23-2003, 05:52 PM
#41
i'm so confused
Why do so many people want such intensive in-dash computers? What will you be doing on the comp while driving that needs such intense hardware? At best, people would use these comps to watch movies, play/upload mp3s, and maybe with a wireless modem check updates on the .org. But without some speech-activated software, you're hopefully not gonna be on AIM or web-surfing, or anything crazy like that. I'd be happy with something that could just play Windows Media, .mp*, Quicktime and the other media file formats. And besides; once you get the power issues worked out, as well as the shock absorption issue out of the way, having an in-dash comp. isn't really that hard to do, no offense.
-95SE
-95SE
03-23-2003, 07:00 PM
#42
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no one said hard. I think affordable is what makes people not do it it more. These screens are what are going to make it more feasable to do for someone as a fairly inexpense mod. For me I have the stock non bose system, all my speakers are shot. I love messing with computer stuff. Perfect mod for me. I'm going to use it as my main headunit and at the same time add navigation, xm radio, dvd, tv, maintain vehicle records, monitor engine though obd-ii port (eventually), visualization when I play MP3(80 gig if i want to). The way I plan on doing will work perfectly in a max. The screen is 7" x 4" should fit perfectly in the dbl din mount in dash. I can either recess it in the dash with minor mods to the stock dash, or surface mount it. I think I will recess it in the dash. The main unit will be located below that where the pocke is. I hope to be able preserve the door and completely hide the unit except for when I access the dvd drive. Less than 2000 dollars. I think it will be able to run a cd-changer with some work I think. I could easily spend 800 on a head unit and another 300 - 600 for some clunky gps add on. Now I could have a video of something be able to show it to somebody at the disc golf course. Play a dvd for my kid when they have to wait in the car for something. Think for that I could easily spend over $2000 so why wouldnt I. They use a hardrive from a notebook pc so they are designed with shock in mind. I have heard of people stock bose cd player screwing up because they get to cold with the ac running, well that will be right where my main unit will be.
03-23-2003, 07:16 PM
#44
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Originally posted by hakk97se
That is very unfortunate. In this in-car PC market, the interface is the name of the game. Using a computer in a car is difficult, and providing information to the user when stopped, or when moving is a very subtle but complex task. If they coupled the system with a really good interface (much harder to do than it sounds), they could have a winner.
That is very unfortunate. In this in-car PC market, the interface is the name of the game. Using a computer in a car is difficult, and providing information to the user when stopped, or when moving is a very subtle but complex task. If they coupled the system with a really good interface (much harder to do than it sounds), they could have a winner.
03-23-2003, 07:35 PM
#46
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I just talked to the guy and he said they are working on front end software, and defintely working on the obdii interface. I don't think you have to have a modded out engine to want that info accessable, I think you can access every sensor on your car through that thing.
03-23-2003, 08:47 PM
#47
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Originally posted by drjohnnyfever
Psumax
You got to Penn State huh? I grew up valley Forge and when went to school outside Hershey. I had a lot of friends who went to school up there. Had a blast in State College, beautiful town.
Psumax
You got to Penn State huh? I grew up valley Forge and when went to school outside Hershey. I had a lot of friends who went to school up there. Had a blast in State College, beautiful town.
although the football problem seems to be disappearing ...
i never knew the cappucino thingy could fit in a din slot, but then again, i never tried it.
all in all sounds like you are getting a lot more than most of us expect when we see in car pc. i thikn the obd II aspect is enough to peak at least some interest.
keep us updated, it sounds like itll be good
03-23-2003, 08:59 PM
#48
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i never knew the cappucino thingy could fit in a din slot, but then again, i never tried it.
03-23-2003, 09:24 PM
#49
hey man, if your really going to do this, you should research it alittle more. here are some weak spots in your design.
1. 1600x1200 on 7", not going to happen. I mean even if you could find a screen to support it, you wont be able to read it, unless it is a very very very high quality and expensive display so that you could use a camera with a large zoom and beable to see what is displayed, but otherwise if you try that, you will just see magnified blocks.
2. 18volts, sorry man, scrap it, your going to need another altenator or voltage regulator. Computers run off of 3.3, 5, and 12 volts. the easist way is to run an extra power line from the battery to your computer location and run it into a power block. then split off the power lines that you will need from there and put resistors and capacitors on each line. the resistor to limit the voltage and the capacitor to ensure that you wont drop below the limits and cause problems with the computer.
3. Look into Graphic LCD's for even more fun
4. use the AMD T-Bred processor with the .13micron core, it runs cooler and uses less power.
5. power consumption will not be a big deal if you dont use power inverters. power inverters waste alot of electricty while converting the electricty, the waste in in the form of heat. A incar computer will use less electricity than a subwoofer.
touch screens make it alot easier, but also winamp lists are hard to navigate on a 5 or 7" screen if you have big fingers like me. get a PDA stylus.
btw, now I have an 18.2" LCD. Paid $220 for it. That will easily handle 1600x1200.
MrGone
1. 1600x1200 on 7", not going to happen. I mean even if you could find a screen to support it, you wont be able to read it, unless it is a very very very high quality and expensive display so that you could use a camera with a large zoom and beable to see what is displayed, but otherwise if you try that, you will just see magnified blocks.
2. 18volts, sorry man, scrap it, your going to need another altenator or voltage regulator. Computers run off of 3.3, 5, and 12 volts. the easist way is to run an extra power line from the battery to your computer location and run it into a power block. then split off the power lines that you will need from there and put resistors and capacitors on each line. the resistor to limit the voltage and the capacitor to ensure that you wont drop below the limits and cause problems with the computer.
3. Look into Graphic LCD's for even more fun
4. use the AMD T-Bred processor with the .13micron core, it runs cooler and uses less power.
5. power consumption will not be a big deal if you dont use power inverters. power inverters waste alot of electricty while converting the electricty, the waste in in the form of heat. A incar computer will use less electricity than a subwoofer.
touch screens make it alot easier, but also winamp lists are hard to navigate on a 5 or 7" screen if you have big fingers like me. get a PDA stylus.
btw, now I have an 18.2" LCD. Paid $220 for it. That will easily handle 1600x1200.
MrGone
03-23-2003, 09:46 PM
#50
oh yeah, also my dad has a small Canon laptop printer/scanner combo, its pretty cool, its about 3 or 4 years old now come to think of it.
Also I have built multiple OBDII Scanners and am looking into interactive modules.
Aside from the generic OBD-II codes, there are 3 different PROM types that will not work with each other. Ford, GM, and one which is ISO based. Dodge, and all of the other car manufactures use the ISO based OBD-II system, which is more advanced that the other two manufactures. Think of fords as a 286, chevys as a pentium and ISO as a Dually AMD machine.
The modules would use a 9 pin serial interface, but I then built another module for it to convert it from serial to USB.
With incar computers that will have OBD software installed, I simply splice the OBD harness directly to the module. It does not interfere with the system if a seperate scanner is used which is nice.
The great thing about this is that now I can get exact readings for anything I want in the car. Intake temp, intake pressure, exhaust temp, A/F ratios, fuel pressure, fuel temp, coolant temp, engine temp, oil pressure, cylinder pressure, and many other things.
The OBD is the main reason for my person incar computers, next is music, and then maps. I dont have GPS software simply because of costs. The great thing about the widespread use of 802.11b and shortly 802.11g wireless protocals is that you can go alot of places and find internet access.
MrGone
Also I have built multiple OBDII Scanners and am looking into interactive modules.
Aside from the generic OBD-II codes, there are 3 different PROM types that will not work with each other. Ford, GM, and one which is ISO based. Dodge, and all of the other car manufactures use the ISO based OBD-II system, which is more advanced that the other two manufactures. Think of fords as a 286, chevys as a pentium and ISO as a Dually AMD machine.
The modules would use a 9 pin serial interface, but I then built another module for it to convert it from serial to USB.
With incar computers that will have OBD software installed, I simply splice the OBD harness directly to the module. It does not interfere with the system if a seperate scanner is used which is nice.
The great thing about this is that now I can get exact readings for anything I want in the car. Intake temp, intake pressure, exhaust temp, A/F ratios, fuel pressure, fuel temp, coolant temp, engine temp, oil pressure, cylinder pressure, and many other things.
The OBD is the main reason for my person incar computers, next is music, and then maps. I dont have GPS software simply because of costs. The great thing about the widespread use of 802.11b and shortly 802.11g wireless protocals is that you can go alot of places and find internet access.
MrGone
03-24-2003, 01:11 AM
#52
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There are several free tools for linux that are under development.
One is called FreeDiag and is already fairly complete (as far as a back end goes)..
http://sourceforge.net/projects/freediag/
Another one is OpenDiag.. not sure of the status of this project.
http://www.opendiag.org/
The documentation from FreeDiag has links to pages which explain where to buy a OBD-II -> serial cable, or where to get the schematics to make one (not hard).
It doesn't appear that there are too many open source projects to make pretty front ends to the output of a obd-ii scan over serial using one of these tools. I may just have to take that on.
One is called FreeDiag and is already fairly complete (as far as a back end goes)..
http://sourceforge.net/projects/freediag/
Another one is OpenDiag.. not sure of the status of this project.
http://www.opendiag.org/
The documentation from FreeDiag has links to pages which explain where to buy a OBD-II -> serial cable, or where to get the schematics to make one (not hard).
It doesn't appear that there are too many open source projects to make pretty front ends to the output of a obd-ii scan over serial using one of these tools. I may just have to take that on.
03-24-2003, 06:59 AM
#53
Actually Mine run on Windows XP (can work on anything from 3.11 and up, so you can find a old laptop on ebay really cheap and use that).
I use XP because alot of people do not have Linux experience.
I actually have to create a module that converts the OBD-II signal into one the computer can respond to.
MrGone
I use XP because alot of people do not have Linux experience.
I actually have to create a module that converts the OBD-II signal into one the computer can respond to.
MrGone
03-24-2003, 08:07 AM
#54
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1. 1600x1200 on 7", not going to happen. I mean even if you could find a screen to support it, you wont be able to read it, unless it is a very very very high quality and expensive display so that you could use a camera with a large zoom and beable to see what is displayed, but otherwise if you try that, you will just see magnified blocks.
2. 18volts, sorry man, scrap it, your going to need another altenator or voltage regulator. Computers run off of 3.3, 5, and 12 volts. the easist way is to run an extra power line from the battery to your computer location and run it into a power block. then split off the power lines that you will need from there and put resistors and capacitors on each line. the resistor to limit the voltage and the capacitor to ensure that you wont drop below the limits and cause problems with the computer.
3. Look into Graphic LCD's for even more fun
4. use the AMD T-Bred processor with the .13micron core, it runs cooler and uses less power.
5. power consumption will not be a big deal if you dont use power inverters. power inverters waste alot of electricty while converting the electricty, the waste in in the form of heat. A incar computer will use less electricity than a subwoofer.
btw, now I have an 18.2" LCD. Paid $220 for it. That will easily handle 1600x1200.
Really appreciate the input.
03-24-2003, 11:37 AM
#55
Well it sure sounds like youve got it covered.
do you have a link to the company that is making the 7" 1600x1200 screens? thats pretty amazing, I dont think its usable though.
also sounds like a pretty fun design with the power and OBDII and comptuer connector box all in one. I am still confused as to why it requires 18 volts. Also the systems that I have setup, there is no need to mess with the stock wiring. All i need is a single 12v line. I do splice the OBDII wires with the self healing wire taps just so its easier and neater to use the OBDII scanner on the computer.
One thing is forsure, with all of the information that OBDII gives out, its really hard not to want to mod the car more, esp. to add some boost
MrGone
do you have a link to the company that is making the 7" 1600x1200 screens? thats pretty amazing, I dont think its usable though.
also sounds like a pretty fun design with the power and OBDII and comptuer connector box all in one. I am still confused as to why it requires 18 volts. Also the systems that I have setup, there is no need to mess with the stock wiring. All i need is a single 12v line. I do splice the OBDII wires with the self healing wire taps just so its easier and neater to use the OBDII scanner on the computer.
One thing is forsure, with all of the information that OBDII gives out, its really hard not to want to mod the car more, esp. to add some boost
MrGone
03-24-2003, 11:48 AM
#56
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Posts: 149
Originally posted by MrGone
Well it sure sounds like youve got it covered.
do you have a link to the company that is making the 7" 1600x1200 screens? thats pretty amazing, I dont think its usable though.
Well it sure sounds like youve got it covered.
do you have a link to the company that is making the 7" 1600x1200 screens? thats pretty amazing, I dont think its usable though.
http://www.xenarc.com/product/700ts.html
and if you dont have the budget/need for a vga input monitor
http://www.digitalww.com/LCD_TM_7002S.htm
03-25-2003, 05:56 AM
#57
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Found out a little bit more about the control unit, will be housing the I/O,relay ports, USB and the OBD-II interface. Processing will be done by a 8 bit A to D running @ 40 mhz. The power supply is a pretty basic it will just increase the voltage and regulate at 18 v and will have 2- 12 volt taps, one for the screen and another auxilary tap. The main 18v tap will be protected by a 5 amp fuse and the 12v tap will be protected be a 15 amp fuse. For now thats about all I know, but it sounds pretty cool. 
03-25-2003, 07:47 AM
#58
I too am putting in a in-car PC, altough mine will be based off a laptop. At first I was going to dismantle an old PII or PIII system and build it into the center console, but I also wanted the ability to remove the computer and bring it inside, so I bought a used Thinkpad.
I have the Xenarc monitor, and I have to agree with Mr. Gone... the monitor may display 1600x1200, but it's not worth using. When I view things at 1024x768 you have to get pretty close to read small text, so I can only imagine 1600x1200.
I also second what hakk97se said... interface is the name of the game. I've found a few pieces of software out that that have big enough buttons and simple enough controls to use with the touchscreen, but once you really look into it, it's not easy to design an interface simple enough to control with pudgy fingers but complex enough to traverse your entire library of MP3s, videos, play DVDs, etc. I think I'm going to write something in VB.
I have the Xenarc monitor, and I have to agree with Mr. Gone... the monitor may display 1600x1200, but it's not worth using. When I view things at 1024x768 you have to get pretty close to read small text, so I can only imagine 1600x1200.
I also second what hakk97se said... interface is the name of the game. I've found a few pieces of software out that that have big enough buttons and simple enough controls to use with the touchscreen, but once you really look into it, it's not easy to design an interface simple enough to control with pudgy fingers but complex enough to traverse your entire library of MP3s, videos, play DVDs, etc. I think I'm going to write something in VB.
03-25-2003, 03:40 PM
#60
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Originally posted by JeffesonM
I too am putting in a in-car PC, altough mine will be based off a laptop. At first I was going to dismantle an old PII or PIII system and build it into the center console, but I also wanted the ability to remove the computer and bring it inside, so I bought a used Thinkpad.
I have the Xenarc monitor, and I have to agree with Mr. Gone... the monitor may display 1600x1200, but it's not worth using. When I view things at 1024x768 you have to get pretty close to read small text, so I can only imagine 1600x1200.
I also second what hakk97se said... interface is the name of the game. I've found a few pieces of software out that that have big enough buttons and simple enough controls to use with the touchscreen, but once you really look into it, it's not easy to design an interface simple enough to control with pudgy fingers but complex enough to traverse your entire library of MP3s, videos, play DVDs, etc. I think I'm going to write something in VB.
I too am putting in a in-car PC, altough mine will be based off a laptop. At first I was going to dismantle an old PII or PIII system and build it into the center console, but I also wanted the ability to remove the computer and bring it inside, so I bought a used Thinkpad.
I have the Xenarc monitor, and I have to agree with Mr. Gone... the monitor may display 1600x1200, but it's not worth using. When I view things at 1024x768 you have to get pretty close to read small text, so I can only imagine 1600x1200.
I also second what hakk97se said... interface is the name of the game. I've found a few pieces of software out that that have big enough buttons and simple enough controls to use with the touchscreen, but once you really look into it, it's not easy to design an interface simple enough to control with pudgy fingers but complex enough to traverse your entire library of MP3s, videos, play DVDs, etc. I think I'm going to write something in VB.
03-25-2003, 05:21 PM
#62
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Originally posted by hakk97se
VB
VB
I have to agree to some extent that windoze leaves plenty to be desired but linux just scares a lot of people away.
Hopefully someday that won't be the case, you have to love an open source OS...am I right?
03-26-2003, 01:11 AM
#63
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I am not a zealot. In fact, I am writing the post in windows right now. Not sure where this came from. VB is just a poor language, not portable, and slow. Besides the fact that there is really no VB software for other OS's, I'm not sure how you interpreted VB as "if it aint linux it sucks" (not even remotely true).
03-26-2003, 04:37 PM
#66
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Just a little update on what they guys are working on-
You ask for a gui well...ask and you shall recieve. There is currently a team off software engineers working on just that. I'm not exactly sure what it is going to look like but I'll see if I can get some screenshots soon. The intention is to have a user configurable front page that will allow you to create your own buttons, define functions and macros. You will also be able to create you own gauge presets, set type of guage, and define what sensor you wish to monitor if the something can't be monitored or tweeked though the obdii interface there will be a bank of 10 i/o s and 10 relays. The relays will be able to be set momentary, latching toggle and set the pulse length, all user configurable. The bank of relay will allow you unlimited applications ie windows up and down, trunk latch, door lock, hell you could run hydraulics of it if you want to, but not on maxima...right, maybey on a Honda. The guys really appreciate the input they have recieved here so keep it coming.
You ask for a gui well...ask and you shall recieve. There is currently a team off software engineers working on just that. I'm not exactly sure what it is going to look like but I'll see if I can get some screenshots soon. The intention is to have a user configurable front page that will allow you to create your own buttons, define functions and macros. You will also be able to create you own gauge presets, set type of guage, and define what sensor you wish to monitor if the something can't be monitored or tweeked though the obdii interface there will be a bank of 10 i/o s and 10 relays. The relays will be able to be set momentary, latching toggle and set the pulse length, all user configurable. The bank of relay will allow you unlimited applications ie windows up and down, trunk latch, door lock, hell you could run hydraulics of it if you want to, but not on maxima...right, maybey on a Honda. The guys really appreciate the input they have recieved here so keep it coming.
03-26-2003, 06:35 PM
#68
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Originally posted by DerekJ212
How long are you guessing before a release? Id love to be a test dummy...
How long are you guessing before a release? Id love to be a test dummy...
03-27-2003, 12:16 AM
#69
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Originally posted by drjohnnyfever
To hak if it ain't li - nucks it sucks... I'm sure he did'nt mean to offend ya. I have to agree to some extent that windoze leaves plenty to be desired but linux just scares a lot of people away. Hopefully someday that won't be the case, you have to love an open source OS...am I right?
To hak if it ain't li - nucks it sucks... I'm sure he did'nt mean to offend ya.
I have to agree to some extent that windoze leaves plenty to be desired but linux just scares a lot of people away. Hopefully someday that won't be the case, you have to love an open source OS...am I right?
For instance, turn on car, you see a menu, mp3/CD/DVD/OBDII . select one, get submenus, so on and so forth. The reason we're suggesting this isn't for our benifit it's for yours. It helps to keep costs down, and cuts down on dev time because you can build off existing open source projects.
Really, if I wanted to run linux that badly on one of these things, I'd just hack it. It's not difficult.
03-27-2003, 07:36 AM
#70
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Originally posted by Chinkzilla
Linux doesn't scare ppl away. It can be completely embedded and custom tailored, and the hardware overhead is low. Ideally the user would have no idea what OS he was using, he'd just see the pertinent user interface.
For instance, turn on car, you see a menu, mp3/CD/DVD/OBDII . select one, get submenus, so on and so forth. The reason we're suggesting this isn't for our benifit it's for yours. It helps to keep costs down, and cuts down on dev time because you can build off existing open source projects.
Really, if I wanted to run linux that badly on one of these things, I'd just hack it. It's not difficult.
Linux doesn't scare ppl away. It can be completely embedded and custom tailored, and the hardware overhead is low. Ideally the user would have no idea what OS he was using, he'd just see the pertinent user interface.
For instance, turn on car, you see a menu, mp3/CD/DVD/OBDII . select one, get submenus, so on and so forth. The reason we're suggesting this isn't for our benifit it's for yours. It helps to keep costs down, and cuts down on dev time because you can build off existing open source projects.
Really, if I wanted to run linux that badly on one of these things, I'd just hack it. It's not difficult.
The user interface is going to be totally user configurable so you will be able to load any app and create a main button for it as well as sub-menus. With the abundance of apps for windows and the fact that many people already have there own software they would could use in there car that makes windows the clear choice for the initial release. Like say someone would like to load the software that came with thier digital camera most cameras don't come with linux apps...yes I know there are available apps for them but do most user know where to find them or how to use them with linux?
03-31-2003, 03:15 PM
#71
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Well I have it now and I have it set up in my hotel room. You have to love complimentary high speed internet. The more I mess with this thing the more stuff I realize I will be able to use it for. When wireless internet becomes more affordable I can monitor my car to make sure my wife or anyone else is being nice. Windows XP pro has a built in remote access manager and when the hardware interface is complete I will be able to monitor any sensor on the car and remote kill the ignition from anywhere in the world.
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