Spongy Brakes
05-27-2003, 07:14 AM
#1
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Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 8
Spongy Brakes
I just changed the breaks on my wife's 2000 Maxima. Afterwards she said the brakes felt a bit "spongy" so I rebleed the system but it didn't help. I've bleed them 3 times now and still no improvement. Am I doing something wrong??? I bleed them in the following sequence...
RR, LF, LR, RF
The first time I bleed them in the traditional way with two people. Then I used a vaccuum pump by mityvac. And lastly I went back to the traditional way.
This is how I do it...
1. I make sure there is plenty of break fluid in the reservoir.
2. I have the assitant pump the breaks to build pressure.
3. I have the assitant hold the break pedal down as I open the bleeder valve. I then close the bleeder and instruct the assitanct to release the pedal. I do this a few times to ensure that I have all the air bubbles out.
I repeat these steps until all the wheels have been done.
Am I missing something???
Is there any way to check that all the calipers are engaging during breaking?
RR, LF, LR, RF
The first time I bleed them in the traditional way with two people. Then I used a vaccuum pump by mityvac. And lastly I went back to the traditional way.
This is how I do it...
1. I make sure there is plenty of break fluid in the reservoir.
2. I have the assitant pump the breaks to build pressure.
3. I have the assitant hold the break pedal down as I open the bleeder valve. I then close the bleeder and instruct the assitanct to release the pedal. I do this a few times to ensure that I have all the air bubbles out.
I repeat these steps until all the wheels have been done.
Am I missing something???
Is there any way to check that all the calipers are engaging during breaking?
05-27-2003, 07:58 AM
#3
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Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 8
The slide bolts were well lubed and I did put the anti-squeal stuff on the backs of the pads.
When I am in a slow roll.... (ie. in drive just at idle and rolling) and I hit the breaks hard, it doesn't come to a complete sudden stop. It gradually coasts and slows down. It used to stop hard now, after replacing the linings, it doesn't...
When I am in a slow roll.... (ie. in drive just at idle and rolling) and I hit the breaks hard, it doesn't come to a complete sudden stop. It gradually coasts and slows down. It used to stop hard now, after replacing the linings, it doesn't...
05-27-2003, 09:55 AM
#6
Well your bleeding routine sounds right. You may still have some air in the ABS system, so if you want to be **** then go out and brake hard enough to activate thre ABS and bleed again.
But I think your problem is your pads. What pads did you use and did you bed them in? Try that first and see what happens.
But I think your problem is your pads. What pads did you use and did you bed them in? Try that first and see what happens.
Originally posted by J Silva
It used to stop hard now, after replacing the linings, it doesn't...
It used to stop hard now, after replacing the linings, it doesn't...
05-27-2003, 10:35 AM
#8
haha, top of the line, you were probably better off with the OEM then some generic brand.
Try this for bedding in...
If you've just installed a big brake kit or even if you've only changed your brake pads and rotors, you should "bed" them in by following the instructions below. Proper bedding of brakes will improve pedal feel, reduce or eliminate brake squeal, and extend the life of your pads and rotors.
When following these instructions, please avoid doing it in the presence of other vehicles. Breaking in your new pads and rotors is often best done very early in the morning, since other drivers will have no idea what you are up to and will respond in a variety of ways ranging from fear to curiosity to aggression. And an officer of the law will probably not understand when you try to explain why you were driving so erratically! Zeckhausen Racing does not endorse speeding on public roads and takes no responsibility for any injuries or tickets you may receive while following these instructions.
From a speed of about 60mph, gently apply the brakes to slow the car down to about 45mph, then accelerate back up to 60mph and repeat. Do this about four or five times to bring the brakes up to operating temperature. This prevents you from thermally shocking the rotors and pads in the next steps.
Make a series of eight near-stops from 60 to about 10 mph. Do it HARD by pressing on the brakes firmly, just shy of locking the wheels or engaging ABS. At the end of each slowdown, immediately accelerate back to 60mph. DO NOT COME TO A COMPLETE STOP! (Note: With less aggressive street pads and/or stock brake calipers, you may need to do this fewer times. If your pedal gets soft or you feel the brakes going away, then you've done enough. Proceed to the next step.)
During this process, you must not come to a complete stop because you will transfer (imprint) pad material onto the hot rotors, which can lead to vibration, uneven braking, and could even ruin the rotors.
Depending on the pads you are using, the brakes may begin to fade slightly after the 7th or 8th near-stop. This fade will stabilize, but not completely go away until the brakes have fully cooled. A bad smell from the brakes, and even some smoke, is normal.
After the 8th near-stop, accelerate back up to speed and drive around for as long as possible without using the brakes. The brakes will need at least 10 minutes to cool down. Obviously, it's OK to use the brakes to avoid an accident, but try to minimize their use until they have cooled.
If club race pads, such as Pagid Orange or Porterfield R4, are being used, add four near-stops from 80 to 10mph. If full race pads, such as Pagid Black, are being used, add four near-stops from 100 to 10 mph.
After the break-in cycle, there should be a blue tint and a light gray film on the rotor face. The blue tint tells you the rotor has reached break-in temperature and the gray film is pad material starting to transfer onto the rotor face. This is what you are looking for. The best braking occurs when there is an even layer of of pad material deposited across the face of the rotors. This minimizes squealing, increases braking torque, and maximizes pad and rotor life.
After the first break in cycle shown above, the brakes may still not be fully broken in. A second bed-in cycle, AFTER the brakes have cooled down fully from the first cycle, may be necessary before the brakes really start to perform well. If you've just installed a big brake kit, the pedal travel may not feel as firm as you expected. After the second cycle, the pedal will become noticeably firmer.
Try this for bedding in...
If you've just installed a big brake kit or even if you've only changed your brake pads and rotors, you should "bed" them in by following the instructions below. Proper bedding of brakes will improve pedal feel, reduce or eliminate brake squeal, and extend the life of your pads and rotors.
When following these instructions, please avoid doing it in the presence of other vehicles. Breaking in your new pads and rotors is often best done very early in the morning, since other drivers will have no idea what you are up to and will respond in a variety of ways ranging from fear to curiosity to aggression. And an officer of the law will probably not understand when you try to explain why you were driving so erratically! Zeckhausen Racing does not endorse speeding on public roads and takes no responsibility for any injuries or tickets you may receive while following these instructions.
From a speed of about 60mph, gently apply the brakes to slow the car down to about 45mph, then accelerate back up to 60mph and repeat. Do this about four or five times to bring the brakes up to operating temperature. This prevents you from thermally shocking the rotors and pads in the next steps.
Make a series of eight near-stops from 60 to about 10 mph. Do it HARD by pressing on the brakes firmly, just shy of locking the wheels or engaging ABS. At the end of each slowdown, immediately accelerate back to 60mph. DO NOT COME TO A COMPLETE STOP! (Note: With less aggressive street pads and/or stock brake calipers, you may need to do this fewer times. If your pedal gets soft or you feel the brakes going away, then you've done enough. Proceed to the next step.)
During this process, you must not come to a complete stop because you will transfer (imprint) pad material onto the hot rotors, which can lead to vibration, uneven braking, and could even ruin the rotors.
Depending on the pads you are using, the brakes may begin to fade slightly after the 7th or 8th near-stop. This fade will stabilize, but not completely go away until the brakes have fully cooled. A bad smell from the brakes, and even some smoke, is normal.
After the 8th near-stop, accelerate back up to speed and drive around for as long as possible without using the brakes. The brakes will need at least 10 minutes to cool down. Obviously, it's OK to use the brakes to avoid an accident, but try to minimize their use until they have cooled.
If club race pads, such as Pagid Orange or Porterfield R4, are being used, add four near-stops from 80 to 10mph. If full race pads, such as Pagid Black, are being used, add four near-stops from 100 to 10 mph.
After the break-in cycle, there should be a blue tint and a light gray film on the rotor face. The blue tint tells you the rotor has reached break-in temperature and the gray film is pad material starting to transfer onto the rotor face. This is what you are looking for. The best braking occurs when there is an even layer of of pad material deposited across the face of the rotors. This minimizes squealing, increases braking torque, and maximizes pad and rotor life.
After the first break in cycle shown above, the brakes may still not be fully broken in. A second bed-in cycle, AFTER the brakes have cooled down fully from the first cycle, may be necessary before the brakes really start to perform well. If you've just installed a big brake kit, the pedal travel may not feel as firm as you expected. After the second cycle, the pedal will become noticeably firmer.
Originally posted by J Silva
As for pads... I bought the top of the line pads that my local auto parts store (AutoZone) sells. I believe they are Albany?
What do you mean by "bed them in"???
As for pads... I bought the top of the line pads that my local auto parts store (AutoZone) sells. I believe they are Albany?
What do you mean by "bed them in"???
05-27-2003, 10:47 AM
#9
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Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 8
In that case I did "bed them in". Although I may have not performed this process in the exact same manner as you described, I did perform a similar routine.
You may be right about the pads I used. They are supposed to meet or exceed OEM so I don't see what would be amusing??? I was going to put Wagner pads on but since that parts house did not have them in stock I chose these because they were comperable in price and I assumed quality. If you are mocking my ignorance or such things then so be it. But, I have used them in the past on other vehicles and never had an issue, that's why I am puzzled.
You may be right about the pads I used. They are supposed to meet or exceed OEM so I don't see what would be amusing??? I was going to put Wagner pads on but since that parts house did not have them in stock I chose these because they were comperable in price and I assumed quality. If you are mocking my ignorance or such things then so be it. But, I have used them in the past on other vehicles and never had an issue, that's why I am puzzled.
05-27-2003, 11:05 AM
#10
Not mocking or making fun of you but I did find the term "top of the line" funny. Becareful with the markting hype these companies push.
If you are not happy try a different pad, HAWK HPS....or just settle for it.
If you are not happy try a different pad, HAWK HPS....or just settle for it.
Originally posted by J Silva
In that case I did "bed them in". Although I may have not performed this process in the exact same manner as you described, I did perform a similar routine.
You may be right about the pads I used. They are supposed to meet or exceed OEM so I don't see what would be amusing??? I was going to put Wagner pads on but since that parts house did not have them in stock I chose these because they were comperable in price and I assumed quality. If you are mocking my ignorance or such things then so be it. But, I have used them in the past on other vehicles and never had an issue, that's why I am puzzled.
In that case I did "bed them in". Although I may have not performed this process in the exact same manner as you described, I did perform a similar routine.
You may be right about the pads I used. They are supposed to meet or exceed OEM so I don't see what would be amusing??? I was going to put Wagner pads on but since that parts house did not have them in stock I chose these because they were comperable in price and I assumed quality. If you are mocking my ignorance or such things then so be it. But, I have used them in the past on other vehicles and never had an issue, that's why I am puzzled.
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