i30krab

iTrader: (1)

I,m looking into having this system installed in my car. This system is great because you don't have to try to find room for an intercooler and all the plumbing and it's also cheaper!
Anyone have any experience or info?


http://www.carrollsupercharging.com

Turbo95Max

iTrader: (25)

hey

while this system seems nice, it isnt the same as an intercooler. If this water injection system is the same as i am familar with, it injects water mist right before you reach detonation, preventing detonation. It wont do anything during normal driving. An intercooler will reduce intake air temps giving more power and preventing detonation. Water injection only prvents detonation.

i30krab

iTrader: (1)

madmax2k

Water injection CAN make power. I used it on my non intercooled 9 psi S/C VR6 a few years ago and picked up 25 WHEEL hp! I went from 235 to 260 wheel hp without changing a thing other than the water injection. Not bad for a $150 investment. The system stopped all detonation, cooled the intake charge and allowed more ignition timing. All of this made the additional power. I used the Spearco Turbo Water Injection kit. ERL makes a much more advanced kit, but it also costs 4 times as much. I found the basic Spearco to do the trick.

Its also sometimes wise (if you are at all on the lean side)to mix some alcohol or methanol with the water (I used a 50/50 mix). Mess with the ratio until the plugs look right. Too little water and youll foul them quickly

If you want any further charge cooling try a small bit of nitrous That works even better than the water! With a 25 shot, I picked up an additional 40 WHEEL hp for a total of about 300 on the same car.

Nick Robinson

Why doesnt everyone do this? 150 bucks, god i paid more for a used CAI and it doesnt add that much. Whats the down side?

Maxstilln

[QUOTE]Originally posted by i30krab
[I]I,m looking into having this system installed in my car. This system is great because you don't have to try to find room for an intercooler and all the plumbing and it's also cheaper!
Anyone have any experience or info?

I checked out their site and its looks worth investing in. TurboMax95 would know more than myself as forced induction is new to me, but it looks very similar to the system Sport Compact Car installed in their project 300zxTT in the past issue. I would like to install one of these systems with an intercooler I think that would give the best power output. The thing that bothers me about an intercooler is that Steve from Chicago said that he showed a net loss of HP with an intercooler because of a drop in CFM. Was that because of a poor design? Those with an intercooler on you S/C, have you seen an improvement? I would think on warmer days it have the largest impact. I'm getting things together now for my new motor and S/C and I want to get 300+at the wheels. More boost+ more torque= more fun!! Keep me posted if you look into the system, maybe we can get a group buy?
1995 GXE 1st Place NOPI Nationals

Maxstilln

[QUOTE]Originally posted by i30krab
[I]I,m looking into having this system installed in my car. This system is great because you don't have to try to find room for an intercooler and all the plumbing and it's also cheaper!
Anyone have any experience or info?

I checked out their site and its looks worth investing in. TurboMax95 would know more than myself as forced induction is new to me, but it looks very similar to the system Sport Compact Car installed in their project 300zxTT in the past issue. I would like to install one of these systems with an intercooler I think that would give the best power output. The thing that bothers me about an intercooler is that Steve from Chicago said that he showed a net loss of HP with an intercooler because of a drop in CFM. Was that because of a poor design? Those with an intercooler on you S/C, have you seen an improvement? I would think on warmer days it would have the largest impact. I'm getting things together now for my new motor and S/C and I want to get 300+at the wheels. More boost+ more torque= more fun!! Keep me posted if you look into the system, maybe we can get a group buy?
1995 GXE 1st Place NOPI Nationals

i30krab

iTrader: (1)

Intercooling

WHY INTERCOOL?

To achieve maximum horsepower, the temperature of the charge-air entering the engine requires close attention. Generally, you will find that for every 10 degrees Fahrenheit that charge-air temperature is reduced, one horsepower effective will be gained. If the charge-air temperature is reduced from 500 to 200 degrees Fahrenheit, a temperature Delta of 300 degrees will yield 30 horsepower. This gain is achieved because as air cools it becomes more dense. And the denser the charge, the greater the concentration of oxygen molecules per cubic centimeter. The higher the concentration of oxygen, the greater the amount of force that will be created from the combustion process. The greater the heat applied to charge air, the greater it expands, therefore occupying more volume. Considering that oxygen propagates the combustion process, the goal is to maximize the volumetric concentration of oxygen.

Aside from gaining much more horsepower, reducing charge-air temperature increases the detonation threshold. In optimal combustion, the air/fuel mixture begin a controlled burn at the spark plug and graduate outwards through the end-gas, thereby driving the piston through its stroke in the cylinder. Detonation deviates from this process by beginning its burn as any controlled burn would, but instead ignites the end-gases uncontrollably. Leading to an increase in peak and mean cylinder pressures of up to 1500 psi, doubling normal peak combustion pressure, setting the cylinder walls in oscillation caused by pressure waves associated with abnormal combustion. This deviation is referred to as autoignition or detonation. End-gas temperature directly determines the onset of autoigntion, based on the temperature of the charge-air entering the cylinder.

Intercooling is essentially a win win situation. Not only do you dramatically increase horsepower, but you also eliminate the likelihood of detonation.

HOW DOES INTERCOOLING WORK?

Like any heat exchanger (ie oil cooler, radiator, etc), an intercooler serves to transfer heat from the charge air to the air molecules outside of the cooler. When hot charge air enters the intercooler, there exists a DELTA in temperature between the charge air and the air external to the intercooler core. The heat energy will want to diffuse from an area of high heat energy concentration to an area of low heat energy concentration, using the aluminum as a transfer medium. But the extent to which heat energy will diffuse is depends on the internal and external temperature. The coolest that the charge can possibly become will equal the average of the temperature within and external to the intercooler. In other words you can only equalize the value of the variables that you are given.

The dynamics that drive intercooling are pressure drop, charge-side cooling and often times the plumbing design that delivers the charge to the engine.

If the pressure entering the intercooler is 10 psi and the pressure exiting is 8 psi, then you have a 2 psi of pressure drop or a DELTA P of 2 psi. The heat produced from turbo charging comes mostly from the compression of air entering the turbo, as air is compressed it creates heat, and has a tendency to want to expand to equalize with its environment. Naturally, pressure drop or expanding the air, cools the charge that is entering the intercooler. So if pressure drop cools charge air, then why don't you want a DELTA P of 10 psi? The logic is simple, throttle response will suffer greatly, because charge air velocity and pressure will be applied towards decompression, instead of being applied towards entering the cylinder. And another downside, affects your turbo. While your turbo thinks its pushing 10 psi your plenum only sees 6 psi. This isn't too bad, on the surface, but if your target goal is 10 psi that means that you have to spin your turbo tens and thousands more RPMs just to attain your target goal. High RPMs kill turbos. So you are essentially reducing the life of your turbo. More RPMs also means more heat produced, leading to lower horsepower and an increased likelihood of detonation.

Charge-side cooling refers to the efficiency of your intercooler to equalize the temperature within and external to your intercooler. If charge air were 200F and the cooling media is 100F, 50% charge side efficiency should result in 150F leaving the intercooler. So take the temperature before the cooler, subtract the temperature after the cooler, then divide the resultant value with the value of the cooling media temperature subtracted from the temperature before the cooler
(200-150)/(200-100)=.5 efficiency
We at FMAX on the whole select intercoolers that are at least above 90% charge-side efficiency.

We must also take into serious consideration, the plumbing design that delivers the boost. The sharper the angles that boost must travel the greater the reduction in charge velocity, as well as the increase in pressure drop. The quickest path is always the straightest path, the path with the least amount of bends, with distance travelled coming in close second. Boost does not take to well to brick walls either, so end tank design on intercoolers must take care not to hinder the flow of charge-air.

So in choosing an intercooler, we must weigh these variables and arrive at a compromise. Basically engineer a heat exchanger with minimal pressure drop while maximizing charge-side cooling. The conundrum is: Both variables depend on the intercooler method, but when using a heat exchanger you must examine the fin type, fin density per square inch, inside and outside charge-side rows. This is the hardware that drastically determines DELTA Pressure AND DELTA Temperature.

WHICH INTERCOOLING METHOD SHOULD YOU CHOOSE?

Weight, convenience and application all have to be weighed into the equation, you may resort to utilizing all intercooling methods.

1) Air/air intercooling, uses a heat exchanger, with air passing through the core as the cooling medium. This is an excellent method, for overall convenience, given that you have ample airflow through the core. But this method will never attain a charge-air temperature equal to the ambient air temperature, unless another medium is used in conjunction with the air passing through the core. Good examples are nitrous oxide, methanol and water.

2) Air/liquid intercooling, uses a heat exchanger, with liquid passing through the core as the cooling medium. This method requires more attention to detail, you must have an external tank and pump to move the fluid across the core. To have the ability to use this method reliably you need to have another, smaller, heat exchanger where air can pass thorugh it to cool the medium as it leaves the main core on its way back to the external tank. This method has the flexibility to manipulate and vary the liquids used to cool the charge. This is one of the only methods that can attain ambient air temperature. Given that ice water is used in the tank, and that the ice water temperature is colder than ambient the resultant equalized temperature should equal the ambient environmental temperature.

3) WATER/LIQUID INJECTION, this is a method popularized by Ferrari in their Formula 1 program. Injecting liquid directly into the charge path entering the engine, allows for heat to be transferred directly into the medium injected in the tract. So equalization is not reliant on a heat transfer medium or external temperature, but solely on the injected medium. Water makes for an excellent intercooler, since it has higher specific latent heat transfer properties, more so than methanol or gasoline. In Indy cars where they do not intercool their charge with a heat exchanger, they inject methanol throughout the intake tract as a medium for heat transfer.





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This page was authored by Jhame Peters, Fmax


FMAX would like to make available the
ERL water injection system, a stage 1 and stage 2 kit is available complete with a water injection splice pipe for ease of installation.



SYSTEM 1 (Retail: $470.00)
¤ 70 psi (4.8 bars) water injection pump in an anodized electric orange finish
¤ Three atomizing jets
(.5 mm, 150cc/m @5 bars)
(.6mm, 180cc/m @ 4.5 bars)
(.7mm, 200cc/m @ 4bars)
¤ Pressure Switch
¤ Special metric tap for jets
¤ Stainless water filter and all necessary installation hardware

SYSTEM 1S (Retail: $505.00)
¤ 120 psi (8.2 bars) water injection pump in an anodized gun-metal grey finish
¤ Three atomizing jets
(.5 mm, 150cc/m @5 bars)
(.6mm, 180cc/m @ 4.5 bars)
(.7mm, 200cc/m @ 4bars)
¤ Pressure Switch
¤ Special metric tap for jets
¤ Stainless water filter and all necessary installation hardware

SYSTEM 2S (Retail: $930.00)
¤ 120 psi (8.2 bars) water injection pump in an anodized gun-metal grey finish
¤MF2 3D mappable controller
¤Water delivery solenoid
¤ Three atomizing jets
(.5 mm, 150cc/m @5 bars)
(.6mm, 180cc/m @ 4.5 bars)
(.7mm, 200cc/m @ 4bars)
¤ Special metric tap for jets
¤ Stainless water filter and all necessary installation hardware

(Click on Above to Examine Instruction's and Specs, Discounts Available for Sanctioned Race Programs and Multiple Purchases)



THE CONCEPT of injecting water into the internal combustion engine has been around for over 50 years. But the desire to extract more power from the standard production engine has increased at a neck-breaking speed. ERL has just revived this old principle, applying the latest techniques in both electronic and mechanical engineering to take water injection into the next millennium.
WATER? Water exists mainly in a liquid state because that is its most stable inter-molecular structure. When we apply heat energy to it, its molecules begin to expand: a great deal of heat is absorbed during this process owing to water's specific heat capacity of approximately 4.2kJ/(kg.K). At 100°C the water begins
to evaporate, at which point a large amount of heat energy is consumed in sustaining the process. The latent heat of evaporation is 2256kJ/kg, approximately six times more than gasoline!
SO WHAT? Because of its huge specific- and latent- heat capacity, water is the perfect liquid for regulating excess heat under certain engine-operating conditions, for example induction charge air cooling; but its biggest contribution is inside the combustion chamber where, under excessive loading, pre-ignition
and detonation can otherwise occur. Such abnormal combustion is particularly common in force induction engines, where exhaust temperature can exceed 1100°C!
WHAT CHANCE has a piston got under these conditions, given that aluminium melts at 660°C? 99% of production cars keep exhaust temperature below 850°C by fuel-dumping, and hold crown temperature below 550°C by conduction to the underside and skirt of the piston, which is constantly being quenched by engine oil. Most of the heat is transferred to the cylinder wall. Simple and wonderful solutions, but ...
TURBO-CARS are easily upgraded just by adjusting the boost pressure and
adding a commercially-available pre-programmed chip; but the hidden drawback
of this solution is that even more fuel is being dumped -- as a coolant! -- to
compensate for standard engine-cooling arrangements (inside the engine bay
your fast-road car has more-or-less the same radiators and cooling fans as the
family car next door). But as you upgrade your power-upgrade, you will get to the
point where the fuel becomes so rich, and the flame is burning so slowly, that
power is being lost rather than gained.
WORSE STILL your piston is no longer being lubricated properly: bore-wash is taking its toll of the pistons. You might decide to combat this with a very special synthetic oil, developed from years of research, which helped some car to win a few championships last season. Your favourite racing-driver recommends it on TV, so of course you want to believe him. But have you ever wondered why he has to get his engine rebuilt after every race?
HELP! Help is indeed at hand! The ERL Aquamist system, using sophisticated
electronics to process engine-data, injects a precisely-metered quantity of
coolant: not gasoline, but water, six times more effective, and freely available! We
eliminate fuel-dumping, leaving your air/fuel ratio unaffected, enabling maximum
power to be extracted from the engine. To ensure that each cylinder receives
exactly the same dosage, we deliver the coolant in a fine mist: not only does
Aquamist eliminate piston-ring damage ... it steam-cleans your engine with every
stroke!
THERE'S MORE ... The Aquamist system offers a full range of diagnostic
features, enabling you to detect blocked nozzles, cut water-pipes, and all sorts of other smashing things. If track record and expertise is what you want, don't wait for your favourite racing driver to tell you about Aquamist on TV: it might be too late ...



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This page was authored by Jhame Peters, Fmax

madmax2k

The downside is you need to spend the $3k + for the supercharger/turbo first Wtaer injection works best on fore inducted cars. Spearco did make a kit for naturally aspirated cars as well which obviously gave much smaller gains. I think they pulled the kit off the market last year if I remember correctly.

Maxstilln

I thought the price of the system would be around $150ish, now it looks like $500 although its still cheaper than a custom made intercooler $1500ish?? Sounds interesting gonna check into it. Think we could do a group buy? Who would be interested?
1995 GXE 1st Place NOPI Nationals 2000
Skyline R-33 conversion???? ITS COMING Stay Tuned

sx7r

iTrader: (15)

wonder if this does anything for nitrous cars...

madmax2k

The Spearco version is in the $150 range, the ERL kit is $500 plus. Th ERL is much more sophisticated.

jgadlage

iTrader: (1)

n/m

jgadlage

iTrader: (1)

FMAX and Aquamist? Maybe we could look at their systems.