What? The traction of the tires keeps the brakes from locking therefore all the braking power is used and not lost to wheel lock up. If you get wheel lock, your braking distances obviously increase. When I run my 15" H-rated all seasons, I can easily lock them up. With my 17" W-rated HTR+s and get no lock up. Traction owns.


Dave

 

I agree with you but you are missing my point.

Regardless of the tire you have your brakes should still be capable of locking up your wheels. If you can't lock up your brakes then your brakes are not working as well as they should be.

The fact that you can't do it on the street is even more proof that you have brake issues. Track has so much more "grip" then the street where it is much harder to lockem up.

 

some of my fav comments so far:
xdrilled is nearly useless for street driving
slotted is the way to go for improved track performance, but only helps for fade, not stopping length
most of u changed the pads w/rotors...it's the pads u guys are feeling
cryo is super cool (pun intended?)
tires and pads are all that most people need. when you start talking about track days, that's when fade comes in.
If you're not locking your tires, you're not close enuf to braking threshold
so brake lines really swell that much that SS is required?

MaxRPM, what rotors/pads are you using? I've only changed my front pads to hawk hp pluss so far and they get better w/repeated stops. I'm guessing they have max friction when they're burning hot. I've decided to get slotted zinc rotors all around and Axxis metal masters for the rear. My intention is a road course system. Does this sound like a good setup? I'm using Valvoline synth dot3/4 fluid, but no SS lines (do i need it?)

Jae

 

I agree with most of what you said. With the rotors, slotted not only sweeps the pad but also allows out gassing. When I had them on my last car I noticed the sweeping effect of slotting left very little groving of the rotor surface after 30k. If you don't drive hard (track/street) upgrading pads will do you fine. If your rotors are already warped and you have to buy some anyway why not get a good set that doesn't cost any arm and a leg.
With the SS lines the main reason I switch to them as soon as possible is I prefer the stiffer feel of the pedal, which is very noticable.

 

I have the AP Racing brake kit from Stillen and I use HP+ pads and KVR in the rear. The HP+ work well for street and track duty though there would be a better improvment if I went with the Hawk Blues but I've just been too lazy to buy them and switch at the track. Blues are NOT meant for the street, you will destroy your rotors within a few hundred miles, and if you let the dust get wet and dry you will also ruin your wheels and paint around the sides of your car.

Yes the HP+ work better when hot, they they can still be made to fade a little if you stand on the brakes too long.

Stock size rotors are just not good enough for the track, you will have to brake lighter and earlier and baby your brakes.

A good high temp fluid wil suffice, it will be rather hard to get it to boil on the street and you will probbaly overwork the pads before getting the fluid to boil.

SS lines are a good finishing touch, though I highly doubt anyone could feel the difference on the street, the track yes but not the street. People who feel an improvment feel the improvment from the fresh bleeding and not the lines.

 

Like I said, I can lock up my stock H-rated 15s, but my W-rated 17s don't lock up. I should clarify some things though, when I say "lock" I truely mean lock. When I slam them from 60-0 I get some chirping, but they don't lock to the point where I have to release them. I also do my braking tests in an industrial area which has concrete streets which are far more grippy than asphalt streets. The braking in my Maxima is downright impressive and outbrakes my prior 94 Z28 according to the "track" I do my braking tests on. On average, my Maxima gets to 0 an average of 10 feet better than my old Z28 and according to the mags, the 94 Z28 was capable of sub 120' 60-0 stops.

You'rethe first person that's ever told me that not being able to lock the brakes up is a bad thing. Are you saying you can lock up your ABS brakes? I plan on changing out my front stock 7 year old / 99K mile rotors for some Brembo blanks, another set of good brake pads, and a brake fluid change. I'll keep you posted.


Dave

 

Wow, i was reading down the list to see who would notice this, that new brake pads don't gas nearly as much as older brake pads, thus cross drilling serves almost no purpose, except shortening the life of the rotor by promoting cracking... That being said, i'm still going to get cross drilled rotors simply because they will look far better behind my 18" Koseis...

LEMAR

 

Dave, people should also know that locking the tires isn't the best thing to be doing. While doing so during testing may give you valuable info on braking performance it will also ruin a nice set of tires. I wouldn't be doing this kind of test on a new set of tires, I'd wait till I was ready to buy new.
Yes ABS cars will get some chirping but not full lockup. This chirping isn't too bad, but for those without ABS flat spotting a $500, or more, set would suck. People that aren't adept enough to start pumping the pedal as soon as they hear squealing will do just that.

Some the people that have good experiences with stock rotors are either just lucky and received a good set or haven't pushed their car to the point that there is a considerable amount of heat built up. We must also take into account that some people didn't "season" their brakes when they bought their car new. Regardless Nissan's cheaply cast rotors are prone to warping and this is what has many people here looking for an aftermarket alternative. Given this fact it has been shown cross drilling has no real benefit and is now more for people after the "look". Slotted has shown some benefit but may not be worth the expense for some. The best place to start is with knowing the quality of the blank to start with.
IMHO the extra $80, or so, for a slotting set from a good blank is worth it for the longevity of the rotor and any benefit in performance is a plus. The longer the braking surfaces stay flat and not grooved the better the performance will be down the road. The grooving effect from hard spots in the pads is why rotors are cut when changing pads. This gets you back to a flat surface. Cutting rotors also has a side benefit that it will straiten warping. Dealers use this to their advantage from a cost standpoint. Not only do not have the expense of replacing a set they will charge the unknowing for the cutting, win win for them.
Cutting warped rotors only PEMORARILY hides the hidden flaw in the crystalline structure of the metal that will only return over time.

 

Believe me, the second I hear the tire howl, I start pumping the brakes.

I must be one of the lucky ones because my OEM rotors are completely fine. As for "warpage", I've read that rotors do not warp, it has something to do with the pad material adhering to the rotor under extreme heat. The material then forms an irregular shape on the rotor which causes pulsations, shimmys, etc.

Here's the article:

http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/...otors_myth.htm

Dave

 

http://www.shotimes.com/brakes/part1.html
http://www.racepad.com/tech/bmw/abou...ped_rotors.htm

 

http://www.geocities.com/diamanteowner/article2.htm
http://autos.yahoo.com/repair/results/ques003.html

There are many many more.

I also forgot to mention problems cause by improperly tightening the lugs.

I still can't believe all the problems people have had here is the result of over tightening the lugs or not seasoning the rotors/pads alone.

 

still on stock rotors and I do spirited driving, but haven't had a track day yet. I've done a few mountian passes. Stock rotors are good. Even my Altima has seen a few track days and those didn't have any warpage.

My friend's Altima with hawk hp+ front pads and stock rotor and rear drums has been to the track once a month since he's gotten the car back in 1999. His rotors haven't been turned, yet they're wearing evenly with no warpage and somewhere around the 3rd or 4th set of hawk pads.

Jae