hi

first of all, i'm not trolling around, I just wanna get one thing clear and ask another question.

The Pontiac Grand Prix GTP is faster accelerating than the Maxima SE 5spd at low to normal speeds. If you don't wanna believe it, go and check the times stock GTP's driven by GTP owners get. Most are in the 14.6-14.8 range, with our fastest stock being a 14.2! Compare these to the numbers of stock Maxima's you guys get on this board, and then you'll see. But if you look at the trap speeds, the Maxima's usually have higher ones, which means, after a lil, the Maxima will catch up and beat the GTP. Grand Prix's really have it bad at the high end. I guess thats due to the lack of OHC's... But you have to remember that the GTP has an automatic transmission.

Now bout my question. I've heard before that the 2002 Maxima is gonna get a 3.5L. I was in Dubai for the past couple of days and my friend said that the 2001 Maxima's over there may be bought with the 3.5L(maxima's in dubai and saudi arabia look a lil different to me, i like the 2001 in Canada more, mainly the front grill is different). Ofcourse, I didn't like hearing that 3.5L news at all since that means, the Maxima will be the fastest car in the class now How powerful is the 3.5L if you guys know, and what performance figures should we be looking at.

Once again, I'm not trolling around. I thought bout buying a Maxima, but we only buy used cars, but the Maxima was like $6000 canadian more than the GTP, and my mom doesn't know how to drive a stick... I think the GTP looks better, but the Maxima could have a better interior, i don't doubt it, but i haven't seen one from inside yet. Looking forward to test driving one this summer.

 

Check out this thread, rumor has it that it will have around 260hp

https://maxima.org/forums/showthread...threadid=26096

 

Wider IS better baby! =)
The thing is, we are comparing a stock supercharged car to a NA car... which I believe is a little unfair but this was discussed already. Why not compare a GT and a Max? Why not compare a GTP with a Stillen Max? I have seen little audi's whooping *** with just a little chip that changes the turbo timing.
Can't wait till the new 3.5 comes out... but nissan's designer is on drugs or something because the model's are getting stranger and stranger...
PEACE
Vic

 

Vic, u have to remember that eventhough the GTP has a supercharger, its still stock and cheaper than the Maxima SE. A stillen is a modified Maxima. I'm talking bout stock. Modified cars are harder to compare since you can put a whole new trans/engine combinaion in the grand prix and still say its a GTP. But there are tons of 13 sec GTP's with same engine and trans and there are 12 secs also. I'm not trying to compare the automatic maxima to the GTP. I was just showing that stock vs stock, GTP is faster, but any lil mistake, will be mean definite loss to either cars since its very close. The best comparison would be a GP GT VS auto Max. What are the numbers for the brand new stock Max?

Thanks a lot for the link to the 3.5L. Thats not good news at all for the GTP. But we're do for an all-new model in 2003, but we don't really have any info. Maybe they'll throw an intercooler under the 3.8L supercharged or a 3.7L version of the intrigues engine.

 

Well if ur in here saying the GTP is faster than the Maxima u are trolling and trying to start something. The only one your GTP is not faster is the 2000 5spd Maxima.

 

I'm not sure if this has been said already but isn't that "Wider is better" advertising a bunch of b.s. I read in Car and Driver that the Intrigue and the Regal are around 1.5-2" wider than the GTP. One of my friends has a gp SE and he always brags about how his car is wider and how it can out handle my max. I was going to tell him, but I guess I'm too nice of guy to brake the bad news.

 

What is faster?

0 - 60? GTP wins

1/4 mile? GTP wins

Top Speed? Maxima wins

No need to get angry about it.. big deal so what its faster in 1/4 mile.. are we going to loose sleep over it? no.. and other factors are always determined here.. did you pull out your spare tire? do you have a big system in the trunk? are you heavier or do you have other passengers?

The factors are too many to have a hissy fit over it... make peace and not war.. just the same can be said for the CL-S but are we going to invite the CL-S boys over here and yell and scream at them? no

the GTP is faster.. there I said it.. now stop crying...

 

The GTP has skewed it's entire power delivery to low rpms. Look at the dyno plot of a stock GTP. You have LOADS of torque down low...down to 2000 rpm and lower...but torque starts falling off by 3500 rpm. By 5500 rpm, you have like no torque left (well, relative to what you had back at 2500 or wherever your torque peak was). What this means is that at highway speeds on up, your car is driving in the "torque falloff" zone. At 100 mph+, your engine is having a lot of difficulty. Off the line, however, holy crap your engine has loads of torque. This is all by design, make no mistake...GM absolutely designed it to be that way. Very much a "classic" american torque curve. Most likely, your head ports are quite restrictive, and you probably have fairly mild camshaft profiles as well. Most importantly, the roots-style supercharger is designed to lots of off-idle boost. Look at a pulley'd GTP dyno plot, and you'll see that it makes more torque but at an even lower rpm, and the torque falloff starts even earlier. This translates into pulley'd GTPs being able to get really low ETs in the 1/4 due to the loads of low rpms torque, but relatively low trap speeds due to the poor high-rpm torque.

The automatic transmission really has nothing to do with anything. Gearing would affect low-speed acceleration, not really high speed acceleration.

One other thing: I've heard some GTP owners say that "if they only had a 5speed, they'd be sooooo fast...", which is not really true. Low rpm torque monsters are perfectly mated to mild gearing, and typically do not require many gears to get optimum acceleration. On the other hand, low-torque, high-rpm buzzers like Hondas desperately need gearing for best acceleration. Remember, gearing provides torque multiplication. If you have lots of torque, you don't need multiplication, but if you don't have torque, you need lots of multiplication. I did a little check on CarTest awhile back. I put the Maxima 5speed gear ratios into the GTP. Guess what? 0-60 dropped from 6.6 to 6.4 or so. 1/4mi dropped almost nothing. A manual transmission just wouldn't do a GTP a whole lotta good (some, but not enough for any worthwhile gain).

There, sermon's over! Hope you're still awake!

 

Keven97se, thats a very nice informative post. Thats why i like going to different boards, cause u always learn something new. Yeah, the GTP does have tons of low-end torque, but i would much rather have it in the high end. Launching is very difficult because its impossible to get traction. I drove a Chrysler Cirrus v6 and I was very amazed by the engine since it was the first DOHC I drive. The power just keeps coming, not like in the GTP where ur right at around 5,500 rpm, it don't feel anything like when its at low rpms.

 

!GTP!-

I was at the "Gathering" last September and I raced with the GTPs at KCIR. The stock GTPs were running 15.1-15.4s@89-90mph. The 3.4-3.5 pullied GTPs with other mods (u-bend delete, intake, no headlight, iced intake, exhaust work, ECU) were pulling 14.2-14.7s@94-98mph depending on mods and tires (ie drag radials) and luck. The closest a pullied GTP came to 13s was a 14.0 when he swapped on a very risky 3.2" pulley (he had every single other mod you could get-ie the guy with sidepipes). There was a built GTP and a NOS GTP running 13s. That night, I was running 14.9s@94mph. Yes, a pullied GTP will probably be a faster car than the Maxima on the track because of it's ability to launch hard.

I don't doubt there have been stock GTPs that have hit mid 14s, but that happens about as often as a stock Maxima hitting 14.7s (it's happened). Most of the faster stock GTPs are running at sea level tracks up in northeast. You've got to admit that MOST stock GTPs run upper 14s to lower 15s. It's all relative to the track you run at. According to the GTP guys, KCIR is extremely slow because everyone was way off thier best ets.

On the street, a modded GTP is a bit slower. Why? Because that Roots blower gets really hot and kills performance, especially with a smaller pulley. At the track, the GTP owners ice their intakes and pull their headlights which is not something you'd do on the street. I've run pullied GTPs on the street and it can go either way. Usually I get pulled on down low, but once I'm deep into 2nd I start gaining, and when I go to 3rd we're even or I'm pulling on them. From a highway roll (70mph) a modded GTP would have a real hard time pulling away from a modded NA Maxima. If you don't want to believe me, that's fine, but I speak from experience and the GTP owners have seen my car run.

I like the GTP a lot and all the owners I met were really nice guys and give respect, however there are some "bad seeds" over at the GTP forum who believe the GTP is God's gift to 4 door sedans (usually these are younger guys who don't know jack about performance).


Dave

 

Kev, I agree that the GTP probably wouldn't really benefit from a stick. It's engine is much more suited for an auto tranny with that low end torque (typical american musclecar.. not a bad thing mind you!!)

!GTP! - I am a FIRM believer in run what you brung. No, comparing a sc engine to a na isn't really all that fair but that's life! Comparing a stock sc engine to a highly tuned aftermarket one (stillen) isn't really fair either. The GTP is faster stock and easily modified. I like the car a lot and if you notice a lot of people on this board mentioned that the gtp was definately a consideration. Personally, I love the exterior styling but the interior... I just could never drive it (i've had a gt for a rental for 2 weeks). But, to each his own.

Now about "run what ya brung", hopefully you'll stick around the boards for a bit so you can see when the 2002 maxima is unveiled (hopefully next month at the ny auto show which i'll be attending) and we see what kinda monster engine nissan throws in. Current rumor (strong possibilty) is the 3.5l from the pathfinder, tuned to produce around 260hp, possibly a little more if nissan doesn't want to be outdone by acura's cl an tl type s. BTW - this engine will also be the base for the new z car.

Hopefully in the near future GM will update the gtp with oldsmobiles 3.5l. I love that engine =)

 

One more dumb question...

Which car will stil be on the road after 200,000 miles, let alone pulling 14s?

here's another stick for the fire, kiddos.. go stir on that one a while.

 

Ok I will settle this BS.
According to the magazine Motor Trend,
Pontiac Grand Prix GTP-- 3.8l v-6 supercharged 0-60=6.8
1/4 mile=15.1/90.8
Nissan Maxima SE----3.0 v-6 NA 0-60=6.7 1/4 mile=15.1/94.4


screw some GTP and my 1997 Max is faster that those figures,
try 6.3-6.5 to 60 don't know 1/4 mile yet, any GTP can come and step to me and I will smoke the everloving **** out of your American Made peice. That has to have a supercharger just to keep up with me that is of course till I get a supercharger and leave you sitting.

 

This is the stuff I'm talking about. There's ignorance on both sides.


Dave

 

Ya know. A 5 speed might not help much as far as speed goes, but it sure would make the car a lot more fun to drive. I probably would have considered getting a GTP over a Maxima IF it came with a 5 speed.

Personally I'm not going to worry too much over the speed differences. ~.2 to .5 seconds isn't enough to sway my car buying decisions. I have a motorcycle that runs high 10's so I don't really worry too much about it

If I wanted a GTP I woulda gotten one. They are cheaper so there is no doubt that just about anybody here could have afforded one if they wanted too. I am sure there were 'other' reasons for getting the max than just speed.

As far as your question goes. I think everything so far is just hear say. 260hp 3.5 liter engine would be nice, specially if the new 300z comes out with the same engine (but tuned to 280-300hp) then we could get some *real* mods for our cars :-)

Of course our car will also be a bit heavier by then. and I also heard rumors of it getting a V8. I think Nissan plans to move the Maxima up one notch into another class and bring the new 240hp V6 Altima in to replace it. The Altima will be your new competition. Only time will tell.

 

I dunno man. I think I agree with what somebody else said before. Not many people own their cars for that long anyway. I've had my car for 3 years and have 48k miles on it. Chances are I will sell it in the next year or two for another car.

Reliability is important I agree, but I think if the car can make it to at least 100,000 miles (which most can!!) then MOST people will be happy.

Besides.. You have to take the bad with the good

 

I don't know why most of you think GTP's are all that bad in reliability and stuff. I've only had a problem with a transmission selenoid fixed under warranty and thats it, and my car has 100,000 km's on it. We've owned boh Japenese and American cars before, and if we weren't content with the american cars, we wouldn't have bought one. Its not really as bad as you think...

"screw some GTP and my 1997 Max is faster that those figures, try 6.3-6.5 to 60 don't know 1/4 mile yet, any GTP can come and step to me and I will smoke the everloving **** out of your American Made peice. That has to have a supercharger just to keep up with me that is of course till I get a supercharger and leave you sitting. "

wow! GTRblc... if u wanna magazine race, go and look at 1997-98 issue of motortrend and u'll see they had 6.6 for the GTP with 15.0 sec.. until u beat 14.2 second stock please don't post anything like ur last message. i don't want any replies like that cause i don't feel like starting any fights or anything. trust me, i don't think the GTP is the fastest thing on earth.

if you guys wanna know how fast the 3.5L Maxima's are gonna be, try get some info from Dubai since i think they already have them there. I'll try get my friend to see what he can get next time i chat with him.

and yeah, Wider is better is pretty funny when i found out that its the same width as the Regal and Intrigue. Its just that something in the car makes it look wide. Everyone thinks its very wide cause of the commercial...

p.s. the 14.2 run was in Canada...

 

My 5spd GXE cost me $21.5K brand new and it's faster than a SE, stock (lighter, 3100lbs vs. 3200lbs...per Nissan's website). I also believe one of the guys did a 14.60 pass in a GXE. I'm pretty sure you can pick up a GXE for $21K flat, add a SC for the $4K and you got a $25K car that beats up on a GTP and cost less. The GTPs here in Vegas are running $26K-$27K

 

That 14.2 run was done in a Buick GS, with no witness, no timeslip ever posted, and the kid was driving his Daddy's car. Most of the GP group doesn't believe him either. I just though I'd sure that with everyone.


Dave

 

Uhhh, ya know I think that there's a lot of unjustified beliefs that american cars are all unreliable. From what I've seen, GPs are really quite reliable. The 3.8L is a VERY reliable, stout engine. I have seen transmission failures, but then again that's coming from the performance crowd who modifies and races their cars. Hell, I trashed my 5spd not long ago in my Maxima...that doesn't mean the Maxima 5spd tranny is unreliable...it means that I'm rough with the car. I wouldn't go so far as to say the GTP is MORE reliable than the Maxima, because quite frankly Maximas are pretty dang stout cars...plan to see a lot still crawling aroung on roads in 2025...but implying the GTP is UNRELIABLE is off-base also.

 

I don't see the hype really. 260hp is nice but really 3.8 liters + a supercharger? For gods sake it better have at LEAST 260hp or whatever GTPs put out stock. I mean this guys says "stock vs stock" Well I see it as 0.8 liters more plus a supercharger vs 3.0 na engine. It's pretty pathetic that it's even close enough to warrant a discussion about it.

 

Well, yeah if there was a 3.8L supercharged version of the Maxima VQ engine, it'd probably be around 320 HP or so, but...

this whole topic is a little pointless because NONE of it comes down to what the other company COULD DO. GM or Nissan could put out a monster engine if they wanted to. It all comes down to marketing and each manufacturer positioning themselves in their respective markets by designing engines with certain characteristics. GM chose the high-displacement/forced-induction/gobs-of-torque/relatively-low-HP route while Nissan chose the relatively-small/good-midrange-torque/relatively-high-HP route. Each manufacturer brings to the table a certain expertise base, and applies that to a target market to make a car that sell$$. While it may be argued that GM could not make an engine as wonderfully smooth yet powerful with a smooth, yet exquisitely complex aftertaste (...), it could also be argued that Nissan could not make a heavy, unrefined, underpowered force-fed engine like the GTPs...

Okay, I'm being faceious here, but you guys get my point. The two engines are totally different, but the reasoning behind it has nothing to do with technical capability but everything to do with marketing. There's no right and no wrong, just opinion.

 

The main problem in the Grand Prix's is the transmission. GM supposedly makes the best automatic transmissions (if u need proof, go check why they make transmissions for BMW 3,5-series, Rolls Royce and tons others...). I've heard that the S80 or something has the same transmission. But GM's engines have a lot of torque so its not too good for the transmissions and they won't last too long, especially if the car is modified.

Now on the topic bout the GTP being bad because it has .8L more and a supercharger. GTP's have 240 hp not 260hp, but they also have 280 ft-lbs of torque at 3200 rpm vs the Maxima's 217@4000 rpm. The only reason the GTP doesn't kill the maxima is because of the 5-speed. Look at the automatic maxima's. They don't stand a chance against the GTP.

What are the times for the automatic maxima's for both 0-60 and 1/4 mile. I wanna compare the GT an the auto max. Keven, do u have an idea how they'd compare at the low end and then at the high end?

and thx for all the good and helpful replies i got.

 

All I want to know is why there are GTP owners on the MAxima Web site don't you have your own site?

 

Calm down bro.. not all of them came here to cause trouble...

 

Personally I find the conversation interesting and a much-needed change over most of the other junk that goes on here.

It's always cool when other forums decide to come over. It seems to start with one idiot trying to flame everybody and then the rest of the forum comes over and they are usually pretty level headed and cool.

BTW Don't try to act all innocent. We do this crap too. One person from here will go to some random honda forum and try to start ****. The rest of us have to go in after them and try to put out the flames.

In the end we are all just car enthusiasts who love our cars and enjoy talking about them. Right?!?!

 

5-sp would make it alot better? Didn't you read Keven's post regarding the torque and hp curves? It would help but not by as much as you think is what he gathers. As I remember it, the 3.8 liter V6 you guys have are still two valve heads(still iron too?) You will have a real hard time getting these types of heads to flow at high rpms. The typical Japanese V6 features 4 valves activated either by 2 or 4 cams, and are increasingly offering varible valve lift and valve timing. You can really see the differences between these two. GM, instead of spending $$ on a more efficent powerplant, just decides to punch out the cubic inches and just slap a SC on it. Hell, they even use Electromotive's derived ignition system. At some point, the pushrod valve actuation and the 2 valve design is gonnna catch up with them.

But what if you put GM's auto in a Maxima? What if the Maxima had a 6-sp? What if the Maxima was 3.8 liters??

 

i read and understood Keven's post. All i was trying to say is that there's nothing really wrong with the engine. Someone was saying something but how come the GTP is so much more powerful but yeah it doesn't show...

and if anyone here thinks the maxima is the fastest car in our class, i'm sorry, but i keep forgetting that both the GTP and Maxima are no match to the Chevrolet Lumina SS they have here in saudi arabia and dubai. Its actually a Holden Commodore SS(holden is another GM company but in australia). Comes with 327hp, 5.7L LS-1, 6-speed manual...it looks better than the Maxima and GTP(trust me, everyone over here is going nuts on this car) and its in the same exact price range, probably cheaper than the fully equipped Max SE. And its RWD.
here: http://www.holden.com.au/sc02_vehicl..._7_4_ss/ss.asp
and their top of the line(more of an M5 class, i dunno the price, but its got i think more than 400hp)
http://www.hsv.com.au/cars/vx/vx_gts/vx_gts_main.htm

 

Yes! I was in Australia recently and the Holden Commodore SS is a BA **** sedan! It's basically a Camaro SS in a niiiice looking sedan package. GTPs and Maximas are both loser cars compared to that beast...not trying to start a flame, just telling it like it is. I think they were going for ~$50K AUD, which translates to ~$28K USD. FANNNNNTASTIC deal!

 

being that 14.2.stock is questionable it looks to be pretty much even therefore depending on both driver's , even if the gtp was a tad quicker up to normal speeds [whatever that speed is] the max will end up walking away in an all out race in stock form anyway.

 

Not something big, Which car is could basically be leveled along with the BMW? The Maxima! There is no other 4 door sports sedan (Motor Trend said this) that basically can come close to the BMW. Only one that would be on the level or coming close to it would be the Maxima, No other car!


Just a couple of twigs to keep things warm

 

I've raced a couple and I've seen a bunch race at the track aswell, and unfortunately, non of the GTP's I saw were even near those numbers. They were all in the low 15's. The best I saw was like a 14.9. I don't know where that 14.2 number came from but I don't believe that number at all. How did this magical driver shave off a second in the quarter mile? Does he know something that no one else knows? It's too bad there's no timeslips or any evidence whatsoever to prove that this was ever accomplished.

Ah-well, too bad for us!

cheers,

five

BTW, where abouts in Canada are you !GTP!? I live outside of TO, where do you run?

 

fivelitrekiller: where are the tracks in toronto? I've never heard of a drag-racing track in TO!

 

domestics have a reputation 4 being unreliable & chintzy ... & just plain tacky .. interior wise ...

trust me ... b4 I bought the max .. I test drove about 20 cars in 2 months ... I was so set on a GM b/c I had a $750 grad rebate ... a $3500 GM VISA rebate plus they were offering 0.9% financing over 5 years!!!

But the test drives totally turned me off ...

Ford gave us $5000 off n e new 2001 vehicle we wanted b/c my dad's 1995 Windstar has been recalled so many fr*cken times ... & they had 0% (yes zero!!!) financing for 4 years ...

Next I was totally in2 the Jetta ... german engineering ... beautiful! Interior is almost as classy as a beemer ... but the financing ... YIKES 9.65% was ridiculous!!! Plus it had no rear seating ...

n e wayz ... I'm rambling ... 2 months later ... I chose the Max ... I always wanted it .. but never thought I could afford it ... but ... they went down 2 0.9% financing over 3 years ... so I took that as a sign ...

@ the end of the day ... it's pretty dumb comparing #'s ... it's been said oh so many times already ... normally aspirated vs supercharged ... can't really compare ... you'd get smoked by a Stillen Supercharged Y2K ...

u got a decent car .. u like it ... good 4 u ...

I have a decent car .. I'm happy ...

end of story ... no? Please say YES!!!!!!

 

The 217 torque is for the 3.0 engine. Next year's 3.5 should have somewhere around 240-250 torque. (in the same body, not the upsized 2003 body)

 

What's the deal with the SC? who cares....that's how they come man....so you have higher reving engines and five speeds, who cares...that's how they come...do you say the same about V8's..oh, they have 2 more cylinders....no.

BTW...I thought this was a discussion not a Urinary Olympic Event over a few tenths and who's mods do what.

It's all pointless. both cars are quick, individual stock cars very in performance and mods change the who picture.

Now let's get to some good discussion not refried hack.

tim

 

now we're talking sense....it's marketing guys/gals.

GM moved into the competetive market with Nissan with the 3.5l 24v in the Intrique...and don't give me another pissing contest about power/output or other BS per liter crap....point is they were going after your market. Interior styling too.

It couldn't go the other way though...as how many people would buy a Japanese Sedan using pushrods and SC'ers? Not many. Americans love Torque, power and pushrods. It's marketing.

Does output per litre necessarily make a higher performing car...no, it's just another way to look at it.

Just to comeback to this statement...it was done by choice. Could they get more out of the 3.8...yes, but it was chosen for 240hp period. We all said the same about your car at 190hp too.

tim
enjoying the discussion

 

Well, since I didn't personally see any run 14.2 bone stock, I can't say. I did however runa 14.667 bone stock, not one little tinker. pulled the headlight and filter for ****s and grins and ran a 14.346.

My guess is he pulled the headlight and dropped tire pressure. Still pushing it IMO. No real magic though. If you learn to shift through the gears in a GTP and hold it to redline and launch well, high 14's is common.

Well, I can't say I have mine still, but then there not worth **** anyway. I could scan and change one so you'd never know and it wouldn't prove a thing.

My point....14.2, well I can see it, but not often. mid to high 14's is common if the driver has been to the track and knows his car....and it's not 98 degrees out

Hey! I travel to Toronto about every 6 weeks or so. Fun place and great city overall.

tim
14.667 bone stock but after some practice

 

Let's forget the personal feelings about how each car looks or what anyone thinks about the SC on the GTP.

Look at the numbers. Power to weight, automatic to automatic, drivers equal, the Max has it. The driver could make the difference in that race.

With a manual Max (lighter BTW) it will be a walk, but that is not a fair comparison.

Anyone in the Montreal area with a GTP has an open invitation to get whooped, with me running my one and only mod... winter tires.

 

I agree.

I along with other Maxima owners disagree. The automatic Maxima...especially the newest one is not going to take a stock GTP until after the 1/4 mile when we taper off in torque and gearing.

Again, I disagree. It would be a dead heat. Even with the pissing contests lately, both can qualify in sub 15sec runs and it would be close until after the 1/4.

I had a 5spd in 89 and loved it for the year I had it. Drove the new 2000...auto and while completely different, not the runner my 89 was.

just my thoughts.