g-force ecu track results for stock 95 auto (long)
03-07-2001, 09:09 PM
#1
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Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 218
okay, so here are the numbers. please note that my car is a bone stock 95 auto w/ 71K miles. the only mod i have is the OSCAI. these numbers are from LACR at 2600 ft elevation. tire pressures, fuel levels, vehicle weight, and track conditions were the same. only difference is that it was roughly 10 degrees warmer today than on my last run. also, the first numbers were with a brand new fram air filter and the second numbers were with the fram at about 600 miles of use. so here we go.
stock w/ OSCAI stock w/ OSCAI and ECU
60 ft: 2.510 2.467
E.T.: 16.659 16.610
mph: 82.527 82.445
as you can see, my 60 foot went down as did my E.T. but my mph went down. please note that these numbers represent my best runs all subsequent runs were practically the same given that i have an auto.
so, what do we have here. a whopping 0.049 second decrease in E.T. trust me, i did 12 runs trying to find a greater difference. i just wasn't there. actually all my other runs were slower than my previous best. i was a little dissapointed to say the least. $500.00 and not even a tenth. even then, doesn't a difference in the mph show the real gain/loss in HP and the E.T. show differences in the 60ft times? if so, the E.T. increase may have been due to a better launch even though i may have lost HP. any thoughts on this?
now given that the temp was 10 degrees warmer maybe that made a difference. maybe without an intake and y-pipe/b-pipe, the ecu isn't optimized. maybe the auto doesn't shift into the ecu's powerband. i don't really know. i tried to keep all variable constant but nobody is perfect. i just can't believe that if the ECU really does change the air/fuel ratios and timing that a y-pipe would really hinder any gains.
back to the drawing board i guess. i'm gonna order a y-pipe and see if there's any noticible gain before i write the ecu off. does anybody know the E.T. difference the y-pipe will make on a stock auto max? just so i don't account any difference to the ecu when it really is due to a y-pipe. oh well, maybe the ecu just isn't meant for stock max's. any opinions?
stock w/ OSCAI stock w/ OSCAI and ECU
60 ft: 2.510 2.467
E.T.: 16.659 16.610
mph: 82.527 82.445
as you can see, my 60 foot went down as did my E.T. but my mph went down. please note that these numbers represent my best runs all subsequent runs were practically the same given that i have an auto.
so, what do we have here. a whopping 0.049 second decrease in E.T. trust me, i did 12 runs trying to find a greater difference. i just wasn't there. actually all my other runs were slower than my previous best. i was a little dissapointed to say the least. $500.00 and not even a tenth. even then, doesn't a difference in the mph show the real gain/loss in HP and the E.T. show differences in the 60ft times? if so, the E.T. increase may have been due to a better launch even though i may have lost HP. any thoughts on this?
now given that the temp was 10 degrees warmer maybe that made a difference. maybe without an intake and y-pipe/b-pipe, the ecu isn't optimized. maybe the auto doesn't shift into the ecu's powerband. i don't really know. i tried to keep all variable constant but nobody is perfect. i just can't believe that if the ECU really does change the air/fuel ratios and timing that a y-pipe would really hinder any gains.
back to the drawing board i guess. i'm gonna order a y-pipe and see if there's any noticible gain before i write the ecu off. does anybody know the E.T. difference the y-pipe will make on a stock auto max? just so i don't account any difference to the ecu when it really is due to a y-pipe. oh well, maybe the ecu just isn't meant for stock max's. any opinions?
03-07-2001, 10:04 PM
#3
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Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 218
wasn't there last friday, i ran today. they have open runs on wednesdays also. wednesdays are great cause there are no cars. i put in 12 runs in about 2 hours. also, i have 16" 2K rims not 17's. i wish i had 17's though. how'd you run on friday? any new mods? hope you don't get that y-pipe before me
03-07-2001, 11:03 PM
#5
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Location: Chattanooga, TN
Posts: 1,756
something cannot be right with your car
every one of the bone stock auto max's that I have seen at home has run from 15.5-15.8, something has to be wrong with your car. Have you had it tuned up, changed your spark plugs?? It could be any number of things, but something doesn't seem right. I felt a huge difference with the ecu in my car, more so than the y-pipe or intake. Hopefully I can get to the track to see what I run.
03-08-2001, 12:56 AM
#7
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i don't know what the nhra uses for altitude calibrations but i know for a fact that the elevation lowers the times. both buss95max and i race at LACR and our times are almost identical. i know that maxs at tracks like e-town are much faster but i'm not sure if they have the elevation that we have to deal with.
about the ecu though, trust me, i did more than 12 runs. all my runs from my previous 3 visits to the track were consistant as were the runs from tonight. i may be doing something wrong but i'm doing it wrong consistantly at least. i know for a fact that i could not ring out more than the .049 than i got tonight. i tried everything including tire pressures to launch rpms.
like i mentioned before, the temp was at least 10 degrees higher. maybe that was the cause. or maybe it was because i'm running bone stock. either way, the numbers say that i didn't gain squat from the ecu.
about the ecu though, trust me, i did more than 12 runs. all my runs from my previous 3 visits to the track were consistant as were the runs from tonight. i may be doing something wrong but i'm doing it wrong consistantly at least. i know for a fact that i could not ring out more than the .049 than i got tonight. i tried everything including tire pressures to launch rpms.
like i mentioned before, the temp was at least 10 degrees higher. maybe that was the cause. or maybe it was because i'm running bone stock. either way, the numbers say that i didn't gain squat from the ecu.
03-08-2001, 01:32 AM
#8
sorry to hear that 95GreenSe.
well, i know for sure that the ecu's program has a 5 degree advancement in timing and a more "aggressive/efficient" fuel/air ratio curve beyond 3500 rpms..
if you added an intake or even a ypipe, i can see the ecu utilizing the increase in air flow toward it's advantage..
--Cheston
well, i know for sure that the ecu's program has a 5 degree advancement in timing and a more "aggressive/efficient" fuel/air ratio curve beyond 3500 rpms..
if you added an intake or even a ypipe, i can see the ecu utilizing the increase in air flow toward it's advantage..
--Cheston
03-08-2001, 01:37 AM
#9
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that's what i figured cheston. but my only question is that i already ran my stillen verses my OSCAI and the times were a thousandth of a second from each other. that only leaves the y-pipe. is the y-pipe that magical a bolt on that it will release all the gains of the ECU? i'm sorry if i sound a little skeptical but after spending the price of a nos kit i'm a little dissapointed. but like i said i'll order the y-pipe this week and post my results the week after next before i write the ECU off. just hope i can still return it after that point.
i forgot to mention that i don't hold anything against those that endorsed the ecu in the first place. nor do i say that my results will be typical of other max owners. if anything, it is mentioned a bunch of times that nabils max is unusually strong so i was well aware that this was a "results may very" deal. i think that cheston, nabil, and others should be thanked for trying to get mods for our max's that we all know are the red headed step children of the aftermarket companies. oh well, if nothing else warpspeed has another customer and you guys will get some additional track testing of thier y-pipe.
[Edited by 95greense on 03-08-2001 at 03:46 AM]
i forgot to mention that i don't hold anything against those that endorsed the ecu in the first place. nor do i say that my results will be typical of other max owners. if anything, it is mentioned a bunch of times that nabils max is unusually strong so i was well aware that this was a "results may very" deal. i think that cheston, nabil, and others should be thanked for trying to get mods for our max's that we all know are the red headed step children of the aftermarket companies. oh well, if nothing else warpspeed has another customer and you guys will get some additional track testing of thier y-pipe.
[Edited by 95greense on 03-08-2001 at 03:46 AM]
03-08-2001, 09:20 AM
#11
Not DAVEB the parts guy
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,555
95greenSE-
First off, I want to know if you "felt" a gain with the ECU before you track tested it?
I corrected your ET for the 2600'. I used a 30.00 baro pressure, 60 degrees, and 50% humidity which are pretty typical numbers (if you know the conditions for the day I can get you an even more representive number). Your corrected et for sea level is approximately a 15.8@85mph assuming your very slow 2.47 60' (I'm assuming you're barely spinning the tires). Since higher altitude sucks out hp and tq, I can't help but think that your 60' would improve an a lower elevation. If you cut a 2.3 60', your corrected 15.8 would be closer to a 15.5. It's all a numbers game, really.
Temperature doesn't have near the effect that barometric pressure does. When the pressure does up, it's almost like a supercharging effect. Up at E-Town, the pressure can get really high (31.00+) which makes it one of the quickest tracks around. There were a couple Celica GT-Ss that pulled 14.3-14.4@99mph last Decemeber with a pressure of 32.3 and a temp of 30 degrees. One guy went back to run last week and was only able to pull a 14.8@94mph on drag radials under more realistic conditions.
The UPRD ECU did exactly what I thought it would do for the auto VQ. The ECU does make more power in the 2000-4000 rpm range which is a benefit for the auto since it can't launch at high rpms like the 5 speed. Your 60 foot improved which means you're possibly making more lowend power. Your trap speed didn't improve because you launched a little better therefore your trap speed gets a little lower. I haven't seen evidence of the ECU making much power, if any, above 4000rpms which doesn't help a 5 speed because we can already launch near 4000. A y-pipe will definately help your car and so will a B-pipe, which could possibly compliment the ECU (IMO it's doubtful).
I think everyone knows where I stand regarding the UPRD ECU. Let's not get into a pissing contest about how great it is or how it's a waste of money.
Dave
First off, I want to know if you "felt" a gain with the ECU before you track tested it?
I corrected your ET for the 2600'. I used a 30.00 baro pressure, 60 degrees, and 50% humidity which are pretty typical numbers (if you know the conditions for the day I can get you an even more representive number). Your corrected et for sea level is approximately a 15.8@85mph assuming your very slow 2.47 60' (I'm assuming you're barely spinning the tires). Since higher altitude sucks out hp and tq, I can't help but think that your 60' would improve an a lower elevation. If you cut a 2.3 60', your corrected 15.8 would be closer to a 15.5. It's all a numbers game, really.
Temperature doesn't have near the effect that barometric pressure does. When the pressure does up, it's almost like a supercharging effect. Up at E-Town, the pressure can get really high (31.00+) which makes it one of the quickest tracks around. There were a couple Celica GT-Ss that pulled 14.3-14.4@99mph last Decemeber with a pressure of 32.3 and a temp of 30 degrees. One guy went back to run last week and was only able to pull a 14.8@94mph on drag radials under more realistic conditions.
The UPRD ECU did exactly what I thought it would do for the auto VQ. The ECU does make more power in the 2000-4000 rpm range which is a benefit for the auto since it can't launch at high rpms like the 5 speed. Your 60 foot improved which means you're possibly making more lowend power. Your trap speed didn't improve because you launched a little better therefore your trap speed gets a little lower. I haven't seen evidence of the ECU making much power, if any, above 4000rpms which doesn't help a 5 speed because we can already launch near 4000. A y-pipe will definately help your car and so will a B-pipe, which could possibly compliment the ECU (IMO it's doubtful).
I think everyone knows where I stand regarding the UPRD ECU. Let's not get into a pissing contest about how great it is or how it's a waste of money.
Dave
03-08-2001, 09:47 AM
#12
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Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 218
dave, even the day i installed it i didn't feel a thing. everybody at g-force and the few posters who also had it made it seem like the gains would be immediately felt. i drove it around for a 4 days before going to the track and i knew that there wasn't going to be an improvment.
about the 60 fts, they are pretty bad but it's a combination of stock tires with limited drag strip experience. at launch, i'm actually peeling out quite a bit which is my problem i think. from my three visits to the track my 60 ft times are usually within hundredths of a second from each other. so if nothing else i'm consistanly bad. gives me a better chance to see if mods actually work or not.
i'm going to order the y-pipe this week so i'll see if there is any improvement. do anyone know what the estimated improvment of just a y-pipe alone is?
about the 60 fts, they are pretty bad but it's a combination of stock tires with limited drag strip experience. at launch, i'm actually peeling out quite a bit which is my problem i think. from my three visits to the track my 60 ft times are usually within hundredths of a second from each other. so if nothing else i'm consistanly bad. gives me a better chance to see if mods actually work or not.
i'm going to order the y-pipe this week so i'll see if there is any improvement. do anyone know what the estimated improvment of just a y-pipe alone is?
03-08-2001, 10:38 AM
#13
Not DAVEB the parts guy
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,555
Originally posted by 95greense
dave, even the day i installed it i didn't feel a thing. everybody at g-force and the few posters who also had it made it seem like the gains would be immediately felt. i drove it around for a 4 days before going to the track and i knew that there wasn't going to be an improvment.
about the 60 fts, they are pretty bad but it's a combination of stock tires with limited drag strip experience. at launch, i'm actually peeling out quite a bit which is my problem i think. from my three visits to the track my 60 ft times are usually within hundredths of a second from each other. so if nothing else i'm consistanly bad. gives me a better chance to see if mods actually work or not.
i'm going to order the y-pipe this week so i'll see if there is any improvement. do anyone know what the estimated improvment of just a y-pipe alone is?
dave, even the day i installed it i didn't feel a thing. everybody at g-force and the few posters who also had it made it seem like the gains would be immediately felt. i drove it around for a 4 days before going to the track and i knew that there wasn't going to be an improvment.
about the 60 fts, they are pretty bad but it's a combination of stock tires with limited drag strip experience. at launch, i'm actually peeling out quite a bit which is my problem i think. from my three visits to the track my 60 ft times are usually within hundredths of a second from each other. so if nothing else i'm consistanly bad. gives me a better chance to see if mods actually work or not.
i'm going to order the y-pipe this week so i'll see if there is any improvement. do anyone know what the estimated improvment of just a y-pipe alone is?
Next time you go to the track, lower your fronts to 25 psi, pump the rears up to 42 psi, buy some VHT traction compound then see what she can do.
What were your 1/8ths trap speeds with the ECU vs without? That should give you an idea if you are really making more power down low.
Dave
03-08-2001, 10:48 AM
#14
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Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 218
i'm not sure if this is the 1/8th mile times but here are some numbers:
no ecu: 10.771 with ecu: 10.714.
about the tire pressures i always run with 25 psi fronts and 35 psi rears. i'll pump up the rears a little next time out to see if it helps.
no ecu: 10.771 with ecu: 10.714.
about the tire pressures i always run with 25 psi fronts and 35 psi rears. i'll pump up the rears a little next time out to see if it helps.
03-08-2001, 07:03 PM
#15
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,032
Well, I hope that is not your 1/8 mile times
I ran a 10.087 with my stock 96 SE. I don't think altitude will have that much effect on your 8th. Maybe it will, but that has to suck. I did take my spare and jack out though. LOL Like that helped alot.... As for the chip, I would expect you to run faster with it..... strange, someone else needs to post their times before and after at the track.
Originally posted by 95greense
i'm not sure if this is the 1/8th mile times but here are some numbers:
no ecu: 10.771 with ecu: 10.714.
about the tire pressures i always run with 25 psi fronts and 35 psi rears. i'll pump up the rears a little next time out to see if it helps.
i'm not sure if this is the 1/8th mile times but here are some numbers:
no ecu: 10.771 with ecu: 10.714.
about the tire pressures i always run with 25 psi fronts and 35 psi rears. i'll pump up the rears a little next time out to see if it helps.
03-09-2001, 03:12 AM
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,807
You should have your ECU checked
On the SE-R list there has been cases where owners would get a stock ECU's back from JWT. Since you said you went to G-Force themselves, maybe they should try another ECU in your car. Even if you were able to manually advance the ignition timing just 3 degree's you'd notice it. As a last resort maybe you should hook up the CONSULT and have it show your ignition timing at WOT. Now if that is the same as a stock ECU then there is your problem. BTW it must be brutal being at a track that high above sea level, that would mean LS1 F-bodies would be running low-mid 14's!
Originally posted by 95greense
dave, even the day i installed it i didn't feel a thing. everybody at g-force and the few posters who also had it made it seem like the gains would be immediately felt. i drove it around for a 4 days before going to the track and i knew that there wasn't going to be an improvment.
about the 60 fts, they are pretty bad but it's a combination of stock tires with limited drag strip experience. at launch, i'm actually peeling out quite a bit which is my problem i think. from my three visits to the track my 60 ft times are usually within hundredths of a second from each other. so if nothing else i'm consistanly bad. gives me a better chance to see if mods actually work or not.
i'm going to order the y-pipe this week so i'll see if there is any improvement. do anyone know what the estimated improvment of just a y-pipe alone is?
dave, even the day i installed it i didn't feel a thing. everybody at g-force and the few posters who also had it made it seem like the gains would be immediately felt. i drove it around for a 4 days before going to the track and i knew that there wasn't going to be an improvment.
about the 60 fts, they are pretty bad but it's a combination of stock tires with limited drag strip experience. at launch, i'm actually peeling out quite a bit which is my problem i think. from my three visits to the track my 60 ft times are usually within hundredths of a second from each other. so if nothing else i'm consistanly bad. gives me a better chance to see if mods actually work or not.
i'm going to order the y-pipe this week so i'll see if there is any improvement. do anyone know what the estimated improvment of just a y-pipe alone is?
03-09-2001, 03:32 AM
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,807
I have to disagree again.....
I believe he might have gotten a different ECU or an unmodded one at that. As I stated in another post, in the past some sr20de owners have gotten stock ECU's by accident. Personnally I don't see how any 5spd maxima without nitrous or SC is going to get more than 200tq at the wheels without the ECU. BTW did you know G-force did make ECU's for the se-r's years ago? Also in an auto 2nd gear at the redline equals to about 80-82mph given the fact that auto's trap around 68-70mph here at sea level. Basically from the 330' to 660' is a 2nd gear pull, with the 1/8 comming in around 5100-5500rpm. Even then the auto won't hit 3rd gear around 900-1000' mark. Based on the gearing of the auto assuming a 6500rpm 1-2 gear shift, he would be landing around 3500-3700rpm in 2nd gear. Now on the ECU's dyno (JWT and G-force), there is a gain in torque from 3000-5000rpm. Now if an intake that produces let say an average gain of 3lb-ft from 3000-5000rpm, reduces 1/4 by 2 tenths and gains trap. If the ECU was able to make the same or better midrange torque than an intake the car would accelerate noticeably faster. However his car didn't nor did it seem to gain much from the OSCAI. 2 things need to be done......
1. Have G-force check the ECU to make sure it has been chipped.
2. Goto a track at sea level
.
[Edited by Nismo87SE on 03-09-2001 at 05:49 AM]
1. Have G-force check the ECU to make sure it has been chipped.
2. Goto a track at sea level
.
Originally posted by Dave B
95greenSE-
The UPRD ECU did exactly what I thought it would do for the auto VQ. The ECU does make more power in the 2000-4000 rpm range which is a benefit for the auto since it can't launch at high rpms like the 5 speed. Your 60 foot improved which means you're possibly making more lowend power. Your trap speed didn't improve because you launched a little better therefore your trap speed gets a little lower. I haven't seen evidence of the ECU making much power, if any, above 4000rpms which doesn't help a 5 speed because we can already launch near 4000. A y-pipe will definately help your car and so will a B-pipe, which could possibly compliment the ECU (IMO it's doubtful).
I think everyone knows where I stand regarding the UPRD ECU. Let's not get into a pissing contest about how great it is or how it's a waste of money.
Dave
95greenSE-
The UPRD ECU did exactly what I thought it would do for the auto VQ. The ECU does make more power in the 2000-4000 rpm range which is a benefit for the auto since it can't launch at high rpms like the 5 speed. Your 60 foot improved which means you're possibly making more lowend power. Your trap speed didn't improve because you launched a little better therefore your trap speed gets a little lower. I haven't seen evidence of the ECU making much power, if any, above 4000rpms which doesn't help a 5 speed because we can already launch near 4000. A y-pipe will definately help your car and so will a B-pipe, which could possibly compliment the ECU (IMO it's doubtful).
I think everyone knows where I stand regarding the UPRD ECU. Let's not get into a pissing contest about how great it is or how it's a waste of money.
Dave
03-09-2001, 12:43 PM
#19
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 218
while i was at g-force waiting for my ecu to be finished i watched as the programer opened my ecu and started soldering here and there. not sure what he did but it looked like he was doing something.
one thing that bothered me was that they said that i had a 96 ecu in my 95. now i never changed the ecu but i did buy the vehicle as a certified pre-owned nissan. they said that because my ecu was from a 96 the programs were completely different and that the base line program had to be changed. they said that they downloaded the base line program but that the performance program should have been the same. not sure what that means but maybe that had something to do with it.
i'm gonna have buss95max try my ecu out. if he doesn't have any gains either than i'm just going to return it and get a y/b pipe and just leave it at that.
one thing that bothered me was that they said that i had a 96 ecu in my 95. now i never changed the ecu but i did buy the vehicle as a certified pre-owned nissan. they said that because my ecu was from a 96 the programs were completely different and that the base line program had to be changed. they said that they downloaded the base line program but that the performance program should have been the same. not sure what that means but maybe that had something to do with it.
i'm gonna have buss95max try my ecu out. if he doesn't have any gains either than i'm just going to return it and get a y/b pipe and just leave it at that.
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