How many automatic driver here race?
03-21-2001, 09:53 AM
#1
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I know that having an auto doesn't help when you want to race, but we have to do the best with what we got. I have a question for you guys. When you race, how many of you just leave it in D? I asked this because last week, I raced this fixed up Civic coupe, it looked clean, not ricey at all. We raced from a 20 mph. roll, and I had my car in 2nd gear, was going to shift manually. Anyway, I didn't pull away from him as fast I thought I would. I did beat him, quite handily too, but I thought I would just leave him in the dust. For some strange reason, I would sometime find that if I leave the car in D, it feels faster; seem to pull harder for some reason. I don't know, maybe my car is a weird. Next time I race, I'm going to try just leaving the car in D(with OD off) and see how I'll do. Maybe I just need to get Don's VB recalibration. 
03-21-2001, 11:06 AM
#3
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Yeah, I guess I should had it in 1st instead. I just don't like to manually shift if I have a choice. As you know, doing this isn't good for the car at all. I wish I had got a 5spd. instead of this slushomatic. I guess if I want to get the most out of my car by leaving it in D, I would have to get Don's VB mod. Oh well, got to settle with what I have.
03-21-2001, 11:30 AM
#5
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In June of '99, I took my car to Gulfport Dragway. I tried leaving it in drive with the OD on and tried it with the OD off. I found that there was absolutely no difference.
I tried several runs shifting manually, but the factory shifter is really lousy for that. The detents are shallow, so it's real easy to go past the gear. The last thing you want to do is go to neutral when you're looking for 3rd.
When autocrossing, I put it in 2nd. It will still start in first, but won't shift up to 3rd when I back off of the throttle to make a turn. If you started in 2nd at 20mph, the a/t will drop into 1st if you wait long enough.
My suggestion, leave it in drive with the o/d on or get a good shifter.
I tried several runs shifting manually, but the factory shifter is really lousy for that. The detents are shallow, so it's real easy to go past the gear. The last thing you want to do is go to neutral when you're looking for 3rd.
When autocrossing, I put it in 2nd. It will still start in first, but won't shift up to 3rd when I back off of the throttle to make a turn. If you started in 2nd at 20mph, the a/t will drop into 1st if you wait long enough.
My suggestion, leave it in drive with the o/d on or get a good shifter.
03-21-2001, 12:19 PM
#6
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I've verified this with track testing:
no y-pipe---leave it in 'D'
y-pipe---faster shfted manually moving the shifter at 6200
the O/D button simply makes it a four speed or a three speed. It is meant to be turned off when driving in the mountians or when towing something. It does NOTHING for performance. that's the straight scoop.
no y-pipe---leave it in 'D'
y-pipe---faster shfted manually moving the shifter at 6200
the O/D button simply makes it a four speed or a three speed. It is meant to be turned off when driving in the mountians or when towing something. It does NOTHING for performance. that's the straight scoop.
03-21-2001, 12:35 PM
#7
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Originally posted by bigtexan7
I've verified this with track testing:
no y-pipe---leave it in 'D'
y-pipe---faster shfted manually moving the shifter at 6200
the O/D button simply makes it a four speed or a three speed. It is meant to be turned off when driving in the mountians or when towing something. It does NOTHING for performance. that's the straight scoop.
I've verified this with track testing:
no y-pipe---leave it in 'D'
y-pipe---faster shfted manually moving the shifter at 6200
the O/D button simply makes it a four speed or a three speed. It is meant to be turned off when driving in the mountians or when towing something. It does NOTHING for performance. that's the straight scoop.
03-21-2001, 02:03 PM
#10
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correct me if I'm wrong but...
when the OD is off, it doesn't simply remove 4th gear from your reach, but it "recalibrates" the sensativity of the gas pedal to give you more control when accelerating/decelerating.
If I'm driving with OD off at a steady 55MHP, I'm in third gear. With OD on, I would be in fourth gear. If I accelerated moderately with OD on, I would have to wait for the car to down shift before I accelerated. For the person who is driving aggressively, say in on a curvy road, it is benificial for them to drive with OD off.
If I'm driving with OD off at a steady 55MHP, I'm in third gear. With OD on, I would be in fourth gear. If I accelerated moderately with OD on, I would have to wait for the car to down shift before I accelerated. For the person who is driving aggressively, say in on a curvy road, it is benificial for them to drive with OD off.
03-21-2001, 05:46 PM
#11
I race
I race all the time any time any where. Don't flame me for this i know it's stupid sometime but hey i'm still a kid at heart. I always manually shift if i am in a serious race ESPECIALLY if it's not all straight line, i have the FSTB and RSB and i will start in first and shift at 6200 and be out by the redline then leave it in second so when i'm coming off corners i have power on demand no shift lag. I never downshift though and i leave o/d off unless i'm on the highway or cruising for some distance at above 3k rpms in third.
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03-21-2001, 07:47 PM
#15
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Thanks guys for the input. Also, is it just me, or does it seem the Maxima seem to do better from a rolling start oppose to a dead stop start? I don't know, that's my experience. When you guys manually shift, especially starting from 1st. gear, aren't you afraid you'll hit the rev limiter? I don't know if it hurts the car, but your power will go down when you do hit the rev limiter. I did it once while I was starting in 1st. gear. That's why I use 2nd. gear to start when I race. I guess I'll go out and experiment a little and see what works better.
03-22-2001, 01:33 AM
#19
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this is quoted from one of my replys a long time ago, took me forever to search for it
"hi guys, i street often, pretty much everyweekend. and i am scared for my tranny cause we all know how automatics can go out. i dont ever do neutral drops, never have and never will and i dont think the previous owner did either (he was an older gentleman). sometimes when i street race when already going, lets say 30 or 40 mphs, if someone revs at me, i will put her in neutral and then rev also but after that i let off the gas completely and put her back in drive, that doesnt hurt the tranny any does it? also i learned this from other automatic street racers, they will do something called "running your gears". when you are a dead stop (like at a stoplight or waiting for the flagger to drop his hands), they put their car in the lowest gear possbible (like on our maximas, it is D, 2, and then 1). well, they say if you go on 1, it doesnt shift to next gear at redline or shifts at next gear late as possible (6000 rpm or whatever you car says). and if it doesnt shift to next gear at redline then you do it manuelly. well, i tried this, and the first race at stop light, i raced normally, it was me (i also had 2 other pple in car) and a blue civic si (manuel tranny). i did the power braking technique (where you rev to like 1 or 2000 rpm and hold down the brake) and when the light hit green he was about 1/4 car ahead of me but i quickly gained and beat him. i decided to run him again using the "running gears" technique. so at the light, i put her in 1st and also did the power braking. the light hit green and oh man did i feel the torque kick, i was pushed back in my seat a little and when it redlined i manuelly put her in 2nd (d, 2, 1 remember, i put her in 2) and this time the si didnt even had a chance from the start i was easily 2 cars ahead and by the end of race (about 90) i was about 3. and when i hit like 80 i put her back in d drive so i could coast. well does that hurt the tranny any? just to recap what "running gears is", at stop, put in 1, then after it redlines, put her in 2, then after that put her back in d to coast. also sometimes "running the gear" could mean if you already going like 40-60 mphs and you want a quick rpm kicker, you take her out of drive and into 2nd and that makes the rpm kick alot higher then gun it. that works good highway i found out coming from the street races to home. any input would be appreciated thanks." and here is another quoted post "i leave overdrive on all the time unless i am racing. what overdrive does is when you are on the highway, if you have it on, it makes your engine run at a lower rpm but you still have a fast speed therefore making you waste less gas. it works best on the highway and you can test it yourself, when you get on the highway today, after you get around 60 or 70, hit the overdrive button. you will notice your rpm go alot lower but you still be going that same speed. whats also good about overdrive is that it puts your car in a higher gear (thats why the rpm is so low) so if you want to pass someone, just mash the pedal and your car will downshift like a beast (meaning, since you was in a higher gear = low rpms, its gonna down shift = making your rpms sky rocket) so you can really get some speed on the highway with overdrive on." that should answer all your racing automatic questions or make have new ones, either way, enjoy
"hi guys, i street often, pretty much everyweekend. and i am scared for my tranny cause we all know how automatics can go out. i dont ever do neutral drops, never have and never will and i dont think the previous owner did either (he was an older gentleman). sometimes when i street race when already going, lets say 30 or 40 mphs, if someone revs at me, i will put her in neutral and then rev also but after that i let off the gas completely and put her back in drive, that doesnt hurt the tranny any does it? also i learned this from other automatic street racers, they will do something called "running your gears". when you are a dead stop (like at a stoplight or waiting for the flagger to drop his hands), they put their car in the lowest gear possbible (like on our maximas, it is D, 2, and then 1). well, they say if you go on 1, it doesnt shift to next gear at redline or shifts at next gear late as possible (6000 rpm or whatever you car says). and if it doesnt shift to next gear at redline then you do it manuelly. well, i tried this, and the first race at stop light, i raced normally, it was me (i also had 2 other pple in car) and a blue civic si (manuel tranny). i did the power braking technique (where you rev to like 1 or 2000 rpm and hold down the brake) and when the light hit green he was about 1/4 car ahead of me but i quickly gained and beat him. i decided to run him again using the "running gears" technique. so at the light, i put her in 1st and also did the power braking. the light hit green and oh man did i feel the torque kick, i was pushed back in my seat a little and when it redlined i manuelly put her in 2nd (d, 2, 1 remember, i put her in 2) and this time the si didnt even had a chance from the start i was easily 2 cars ahead and by the end of race (about 90) i was about 3. and when i hit like 80 i put her back in d drive so i could coast. well does that hurt the tranny any? just to recap what "running gears is", at stop, put in 1, then after it redlines, put her in 2, then after that put her back in d to coast. also sometimes "running the gear" could mean if you already going like 40-60 mphs and you want a quick rpm kicker, you take her out of drive and into 2nd and that makes the rpm kick alot higher then gun it. that works good highway i found out coming from the street races to home. any input would be appreciated thanks." and here is another quoted post "i leave overdrive on all the time unless i am racing. what overdrive does is when you are on the highway, if you have it on, it makes your engine run at a lower rpm but you still have a fast speed therefore making you waste less gas. it works best on the highway and you can test it yourself, when you get on the highway today, after you get around 60 or 70, hit the overdrive button. you will notice your rpm go alot lower but you still be going that same speed. whats also good about overdrive is that it puts your car in a higher gear (thats why the rpm is so low) so if you want to pass someone, just mash the pedal and your car will downshift like a beast (meaning, since you was in a higher gear = low rpms, its gonna down shift = making your rpms sky rocket) so you can really get some speed on the highway with overdrive on." that should answer all your racing automatic questions or make have new ones, either way, enjoy
03-22-2001, 08:01 AM
#20
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nodoubt711: thanks for the information, quite a bit I might add. It make sense to me from what you said. So, at highway speed, if you want to downshift and pass someone, it's better to just mash down the gas? Oppose to turning OD off and mashing the gas? I tried the latter, and it didn't seem to make any difference. Actually, I seem to get better acceleration from just mashing down the gas to downshift and pass people.
yo_its_ok: isn't reving it up to 2200rpms. a bit high? I usually powerbrake at 1500rpms. I get a pretty good launch with hardly any tire spin. You're right about the light. You'll get the best launch if you can time the light right while powerbraking. However, I think every light is timed differently, and sometimes, I do tend to make a mistake by powerbraking for too long. I ended up getting a bad launch. Stupid light.
I got another question for you guys. I remember this one time when I raced a GSR and this guy found out that I had an automatic. He just laughed at me, and said, "you actually race with an automatic?" "why bother, automatic can't win." You guys ever get that kind of comment? Well, you know what? I beat him, but he said he got a bad launch and that he needed better tires. Ok...it's funny how after the race, there were a few auto Integras there and they were actually on my side. The GSR guy was talking a lot of trash before that, even trashing his fellow Integra peeps because they got automatics. hehe...oh well, he learned that automatics are not to be just laughed at.
It make sense to me from what you said. So, at highway speed, if you want to downshift and pass someone, it's better to just mash down the gas? Oppose to turning OD off and mashing the gas? I tried the latter, and it didn't seem to make any difference. Actually, I seem to get better acceleration from just mashing down the gas to downshift and pass people. yo_its_ok: isn't reving it up to 2200rpms. a bit high? I usually powerbrake at 1500rpms. I get a pretty good launch with hardly any tire spin. You're right about the light. You'll get the best launch if you can time the light right while powerbraking. However, I think every light is timed differently, and sometimes, I do tend to make a mistake by powerbraking for too long. I ended up getting a bad launch. Stupid light.
I got another question for you guys. I remember this one time when I raced a GSR and this guy found out that I had an automatic. He just laughed at me, and said, "you actually race with an automatic?" "why bother, automatic can't win." You guys ever get that kind of comment? Well, you know what? I beat him, but he said he got a bad launch and that he needed better tires. Ok...it's funny how after the race, there were a few auto Integras there and they were actually on my side.
The GSR guy was talking a lot of trash before that, even trashing his fellow Integra peeps because they got automatics. hehe...oh well, he learned that automatics are not to be just laughed at.
03-22-2001, 11:34 AM
#21
Not DAVEB the parts guy
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,555
I think the word powrbrake is being thrown around too loosely. Powerbraking is something you do to get a burnout in a automatic. Powerbraking isn't exactly benifical to racing.
What you guys need to be doing is "flash" stalling the converter. Hold your left foot hard on the brake. A rest your right foot lightly on the gas pedal. When it's time to go, mash the brake and stab the throttle, almost immediately let you foot off the brake. You should be able to get off the line with minimal spin and a pretty good launch. By flash stalling the rpms should jump to 1500-1800rpms and you won't cook the tranny fluid. Waiting at the line with the converter stalled up (powerbraking) starts to boil you tranny fluid and could ruin the torque converter. By the time the race starts, your tranny is very hot and the shifts will be slow and soft. Flash stall it gentlemen.
BTW, I've never come up against a auto Max that can come remotely close to jumping my 5 speed off the line. The auto just doesn't have the gearing to get off the line like a decently driven 5 speed. From a roll, the race is much better. Most auto Maximas are lucky to get a mid 2.4 60 foot. Many 5 speed Maxs have nailed lower 2.2s. This equates to about a 2 car lead by the first 100'. The automatic Max is good competition with a 5 speed from a 20mph roll up till 90mph. Before and after that, the 5 speed uses all it's gear to it's advantage.
Dave
What you guys need to be doing is "flash" stalling the converter. Hold your left foot hard on the brake. A rest your right foot lightly on the gas pedal. When it's time to go, mash the brake and stab the throttle, almost immediately let you foot off the brake. You should be able to get off the line with minimal spin and a pretty good launch. By flash stalling the rpms should jump to 1500-1800rpms and you won't cook the tranny fluid. Waiting at the line with the converter stalled up (powerbraking) starts to boil you tranny fluid and could ruin the torque converter. By the time the race starts, your tranny is very hot and the shifts will be slow and soft. Flash stall it gentlemen.
BTW, I've never come up against a auto Max that can come remotely close to jumping my 5 speed off the line. The auto just doesn't have the gearing to get off the line like a decently driven 5 speed. From a roll, the race is much better. Most auto Maximas are lucky to get a mid 2.4 60 foot. Many 5 speed Maxs have nailed lower 2.2s. This equates to about a 2 car lead by the first 100'. The automatic Max is good competition with a 5 speed from a 20mph roll up till 90mph. Before and after that, the 5 speed uses all it's gear to it's advantage.
Dave
03-22-2001, 01:33 PM
#23
Pusssseeeehhhh
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,001
Originally posted by Dave B
I think the word powrbrake is being thrown around too loosely. Powerbraking is something you do to get a burnout in a automatic. Powerbraking isn't exactly benifical to racing.
What you guys need to be doing is "flash" stalling the converter. Hold your left foot hard on the brake. A rest your right foot lightly on the gas pedal. When it's time to go, mash the brake and stab the throttle, almost immediately let you foot off the brake. You should be able to get off the line with minimal spin and a pretty good launch. By flash stalling the rpms should jump to 1500-1800rpms and you won't cook the tranny fluid. Waiting at the line with the converter stalled up (powerbraking) starts to boil you tranny fluid and could ruin the torque converter. By the time the race starts, your tranny is very hot and the shifts will be slow and soft. Flash stall it gentlemen.
BTW, I've never come up against a auto Max that can come remotely close to jumping my 5 speed off the line. The auto just doesn't have the gearing to get off the line like a decently driven 5 speed. From a roll, the race is much better. Most auto Maximas are lucky to get a mid 2.4 60 foot. Many 5 speed Maxs have nailed lower 2.2s. This equates to about a 2 car lead by the first 100'. The automatic Max is good competition with a 5 speed from a 20mph roll up till 90mph. Before and after that, the 5 speed uses all it's gear to it's advantage.
Dave
I think the word powrbrake is being thrown around too loosely. Powerbraking is something you do to get a burnout in a automatic. Powerbraking isn't exactly benifical to racing.
What you guys need to be doing is "flash" stalling the converter. Hold your left foot hard on the brake. A rest your right foot lightly on the gas pedal. When it's time to go, mash the brake and stab the throttle, almost immediately let you foot off the brake. You should be able to get off the line with minimal spin and a pretty good launch. By flash stalling the rpms should jump to 1500-1800rpms and you won't cook the tranny fluid. Waiting at the line with the converter stalled up (powerbraking) starts to boil you tranny fluid and could ruin the torque converter. By the time the race starts, your tranny is very hot and the shifts will be slow and soft. Flash stall it gentlemen.
BTW, I've never come up against a auto Max that can come remotely close to jumping my 5 speed off the line. The auto just doesn't have the gearing to get off the line like a decently driven 5 speed. From a roll, the race is much better. Most auto Maximas are lucky to get a mid 2.4 60 foot. Many 5 speed Maxs have nailed lower 2.2s. This equates to about a 2 car lead by the first 100'. The automatic Max is good competition with a 5 speed from a 20mph roll up till 90mph. Before and after that, the 5 speed uses all it's gear to it's advantage.
Dave
I consistantly get 2.4's at the track on the 60'......is that good considering im an auto VG......
and yea i "used" to be a fan of the holding the brake and gas.... until my tranny went, i used to floor the brake and floor the gas and then just let it go ....turns out my best launches are around 1800-2000 RPM's and at those RPM's im not about to toast my tranny as easily. im still a fan of taking the O/D off especially if the car is already moving, if i can race from a roll ill start out in 2nd doing like 35 mph and then punch it...that VG ffflllyyysss ( well not really but its quicker then having it downshift)
03-23-2001, 05:27 AM
#25
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Originally posted by wicked1044
you guys talk about the v.b. upgrade too much..
is produces hard shifts, i have seen it might take .1-.2 sec off.. tell me what you guys have seen at the track with it..
you guys talk about the v.b. upgrade too much..
is produces hard shifts, i have seen it might take .1-.2 sec off.. tell me what you guys have seen at the track with it..
Well, since we have an auto, what else are going to talk about? It's not like we have many choices out there for us. It's either vb, torque converter, or 5spd. swap for us.
03-23-2001, 06:32 AM
#26
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hmm, ask for don?? hahaha. what else would he say...
a torque converter WILL help us go faster..
again i'm looking for real gains with the v.b. mod..
people that have it in their cars have told me they think it MIGHT help... it DOES make your car FEEL faster...
see my point...
a torque converter WILL help us go faster..
again i'm looking for real gains with the v.b. mod..
people that have it in their cars have told me they think it MIGHT help... it DOES make your car FEEL faster...
see my point...
03-23-2001, 08:45 AM
#27
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Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,467
again my point is the same, i don't see any gains...
you did a tranny rebuild and your car feels faster...you also played with the torque coveter... so now you can play with other guys a little better??? still don't see it helping.. you had slight gains, but gains none the less. i'm talking about the v.b here.. like i said before a torque coverter will help a lot.. you also played with the tranny to make it better right?? so of course you will keep up better than before.
you did a tranny rebuild and your car feels faster...you also played with the torque coveter... so now you can play with other guys a little better??? still don't see it helping.. you had slight gains, but gains none the less. i'm talking about the v.b here.. like i said before a torque coverter will help a lot.. you also played with the tranny to make it better right?? so of course you will keep up better than before.
03-23-2001, 09:49 AM
#29
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Posts: 2,467
haaaaaa, damn you must had really played hardball with the auto to have it die like that..
so you just bought it back up to stock specs..
maybe you can run faster with you buddies now it because your tranny was weak before...
again i know you tryied to improve the pressure lines which you did but they give you a firmer shift..it makes the car truely feel faster.. i'm don't care who answers my question, they can have any of the v.b. brands out there.
they improve shifting patterns, i'm talking speed.
you can pull the pressue line and make the car shift harder that a mother*ucker but it will not improve your 0-60...
so you just bought it back up to stock specs..
maybe you can run faster with you buddies now it because your tranny was weak before...
again i know you tryied to improve the pressure lines which you did but they give you a firmer shift..it makes the car truely feel faster.. i'm don't care who answers my question, they can have any of the v.b. brands out there.
they improve shifting patterns, i'm talking speed.
you can pull the pressue line and make the car shift harder that a mother*ucker but it will not improve your 0-60...
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