krismax

iTrader: (15)

What there saying is in that cars case without the egr system the car doesnt have stumbles like it use to from the egr system and runs smoother without it.

Huh what cars also stumble alot

Broaner

iTrader: (10)

I get you I think. This isn't the case with ours? Could you or your wiring buddy do a brief write-up or inform me/us which resistors are required and where? It would be greatly appreciated. No rush though. I'll have the engine out most of next month so I've got time to spare.

japmaxSE

iTrader: (7)

As EGR flow increases, ignition timing is automatically advanced. Anytime EGR is reduced, ignition timing is automatically retarded. This response seems to be especially strong and quick on OBD II vehicles. It is so effective that disabling EGR will rarely result in a NOX emission failure in loaded mode emission tests. But, disabled EGR valves will usually result in increased fuel consumption and reduced power because of the impact on ignition advance.



Damn I don't wan't to lose any power at midrange or part throttle But I also don't wan't carbon build up in my manifold. HMMMMM

krismax

iTrader: (15)

I dont think it plays with timing directly like that. At wot the egr system isnt even used so even if it did play with timeing it wouldnt be at wot.
I have a scan tool when my cars back on the road with the proper resisters ill check and see whats going on.Im taking the boost sensor off to.

Maybe i can get 98seblackmax to come in and give his 2 cents on what he knows.

japmaxSE

iTrader: (7)

Thanks KRIS, thats funny that you said boost sensor I've always wonderd what to do with it.

BobbyR1972

iTrader: (2)

What if you plug up the exhaust manifold and run a new pipe to a breather. This would keep the CC temp. Low Too right just no exhaust fumes going back into the engine.

Broaner

iTrader: (10)

Why don't 95's have this mysterious boost sensor? I've also wondered what it was for. The other Maxes I work on have it.

Krismax, I always forget that WOT is open loop. Okay, the timing isn't pulled. This means that the danger remains from high CC temps. If its really hot your going to get knock and the ECU is gonna be like WTF? I'd guess that it would finally throw a code for the knock sensor. If the IAT is reasonable the ECU is gonna think there is something seriously wrong and might throw a code plus pull timing.

Bobby, let me make sure I'm understanding you. Your suggesting to put a breather on the EGR port on the IM? I don't think that is possible cause the IM wouldn't be able to build vacum for regular idling. You would have what sounded like an agressively camed car if you did that. Didn't you know that was the easy way to making people think you were cammed(Pulling a vacum line). LOL. Not to mention the air coming through the breather is un-metered.

nismology

iTrader: (8)

There is no EGR flow in open loop. Why? Because in open loop the stock ECU is tuned rich so that the higher CC temps you see at partial throttle aren't a concern.

Broaner

iTrader: (10)

Let me confirm; Open loop is WOT or Closed Loop is WOT? I'm not following you. You say that it runs rich in open loop. Then you say at partial throttle higher CC temps aren't a concern. The ECU runs near stoichi on part throttle so this would make the CC temps a concern no?

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

Open loop is whenever the ecu reverts to preprogrammed fuel and ignition mapping and ignores oxygen sensor feedback. This happens at startup of a cold engine and at wide open throttle. The ecu is programmed to achieve a stoichiometric afr during closed loop operation, and a richer than stoich afr at WOT in order to prevent detonation.

Higher CC temps at part throttle are not a concern because even if you do get some detonation, there is not enough energy in the fuel/air charge at partial throttle to do any damage, except maybe in the extreme long term.

nismology

iTrader: (8)

Open loop is not necessarily WOT. IIRC the ECU goes into open loop mode well before WOT. Closed loop is only used for idling at operating temp, cruising, and light acceleration. Just FYI...

I meant that you won't be seeing the high CC temps at open loop even with the advanced ignition timing because the ECU is tuned to run a rich A/F ratio .

And stephen max is right about the higher CC temps not being a concern in terms of engine damage. But it is definitely a concern in terms of performance because the detonation causes retarded ignition timing.

Broaner

iTrader: (10)

What about with TS/JWT ECU?

Broaner

iTrader: (10)

I just spent about an hour looking at that area of the engine bay. I have a clear view of it from many angles at this point cause my IM is off as well as a large area below where the axle normally sits. I think I have deduced that only one vaccum line is required. This is the one that comes off the bottom of the TB and goes to the fuel presssure regulator. It appears that all the rest of the lines are emissions equipment related. Seems to me that the whole jumble of **** just below the TB and a bit up toward the front valve cover can be eliminated if the EGR is eliminated. That would really clean up the engine bay and probably make the car 10Ibs lighter. There really is a bunch of extra **** in there.

Also, while inspecting the area I looked for sensors that appeared to be related. The only one I could see was the one that is just before where the EGR tube meets the IM. Is this the only one? If it is then tricking the ECU would be no problemo. A resistor and solder(SP?) and your done!

At this point I have questions about emissions. I don't drive my car in the winter and in the summer I drive only in good conditions(Dry, warm) Last year I drove 8K miles. That was with a fair amount of winter driving. This year I plan to drive less than 6K miles. Because of this I don't feel bad eliminating the emissions controls on my car. Currently, there are no emissions tests in this area. I'm quite suprised by this. There probably will be testing in Madison in less than two years. If I have an illegal car when I go to my first test can I be grand-fathered in? For those of you that live in regulated areas and have elimated emissions equipment how do you get around it? I hear that if its OBD-II they only have to hook up to it and make sure everything is within spec. Is this true? Do they have to "dyno" you if your OBD-II? They would probably say, "This car isn't OBD-II cause its 95 so we have to road simulate on the dyno." Then I'd show them the Auterra.

BSwithTF

iTrader: (8)

It really cleans up the engine bay when you get all that crap out of there. That area always bothered me whenever I'd look at it and think about the motor swap. Now it's all gone so I don't have to worry about it.

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

What about a 2002 engine? Does it have something similar that can be eliminated?

krismax

iTrader: (15)

cars with variable timeing dont have egr systems the valve timing sucks the exhaust gas in ,so it kind of mimics what the egr system does

Broaner

iTrader: (10)

I was looking around in that area again and noticed what appears to be another EGR related sensor. I'll take pics tomorrow. It is a two pin plug up by the front valve cover. It connects to a little zinc plated box that has three vaccum lines connected it. What is this for? I have had many vacumm lines disconnected(not plugged) for a while w/ no code so I'm wondering if this is even required. I still need to know optimal resistor for tricking ECU at EGR/IM port.

Nismo3112

iTrader: (12)

Do u get any codes? If not, how do you overcome the codes?

Broaner

iTrader: (10)

A pic for those interested in this for the weight saving and un-cluttering...

All the nasty brown/rusty **** is EGR related. Also, both discs in the pic are what I understand to be EGR solenoids.

Nismo3112

iTrader: (12)

Does anyone know the size, thread width and pitch of the EGR pipe that goes to the exhaust manifold? I am in the process of removing the EGR (disconnected for 3 months now) and I need to get a plug to plug it up.

Broaner

iTrader: (10)

It would be hard to find one like that. I'm going to cut it off, crimp it down and weld it shut.

Broaner

iTrader: (10)

I'm digging up this old one. I'm wondering if anyone knows the resistors needed to fool the ECU. Maybe I'll just call JWT.

krismax

iTrader: (15)

well i will say the only codes i had were from black plug 0443 and from brown plug 1105 if i pluged these back in and let them dangle . All codes diappeared cel went off ,this is with car idleling for 30 minutes and 100ft of driving long term who knows but ill find out.
My car already has some sort of problems so i dont know if the lumpy camk sound is from all the stuff unhooked or engine probs. things unhooked no vacumm to boost sensor but i may give it some,black ,brown plugs going to selonoids are there dangling .Green plug hanging selonoid gone it seems to have no problem with this. Also gone egr temp sensor it seems to have no prob with that also.

But when my new engine goes in ill see how it all reacts long term but i will have resisters put on nomatter because it will make the stuff 100% happy and will unclutter and save a few lbs.

Broaner

iTrader: (10)

Sweet. Let me know what happens. I'm in a similar situation as you right now. My engine is out of the car and I'm not able to do all the testing cause obviously the car would not run. I guess it'll be whoever gets it running first that finds the needed resistors.

As for the lumpy idle. Sounds to me like a vaccum issue. I've never had a lumpy idle from anything non-vacum related. Its pretty cool though. Any time you wanna fool somebody into thinking your agressively cam'ed just pull a vaccum line.

95CustomMaxima

iTrader: (5)

Is there any new updates about write ups on removing this, or side affects?

Thanks,

-Nick

Broaner

iTrader: (10)

My car still isn't together so I don't have any updates issue wise. I did make my EGR blockoff though. I just cut it off and welded a bolt in there. I'm painting it right now.

Nismo3112

iTrader: (12)

I dont know if you should bother painting it:

1. who is ever going to see it?
2. wouldn't the paint burn right off when it gets hot?

Broaner

iTrader: (10)

1. I know nobody but me is ever going to see it. I'm weird like that.
2. I was almost spraying it when I realized that it would get way hotter than 500 degrees. I switched to the 1200 degree can and sprayed away. Two coats and an hour in the oven. That **** ain't flaking off.

I put it back on earlier today and I must say I'm slightly worried about the seal. My engine is on a stand and I can't torque it down enough cause the stand starts tipping over. There is ~1.5 threads left. I guess I'll do it with a buddy and call it good tomorrow.

Sam Ali

FYI, my 97/I30 (Local Indonesia version) did not have EGR, and O2 sensor as no emission standard exist here. So indeed nissan did make VQ30DE without EGR .... as standard ... The EGR connector on the IM was blocked ... However it does have PCV valve..

VQuick

iTrader: (17)

Wow, good info Sam. That's interesting. Do you have a photo of your engine bay?

Hope nobody you know was hurt/killed in the tsunami.

Sam Ali

Luckily, we are far from the epicenter on Java Island, all the ones I know are fine. I do have some pics but I can not or do not know how to upload them ....

[IMG]D:\Picture\I30\Web\VQ30web2.jpg[/IMG]

Broaner

iTrader: (10)

Wow, that is interesting. Is the plug for the sensor there or is it just eliminated from the harness?

To upload pics you must host them on a website first. Cardomain.com is a free and easy one. There are many more that are only for pics and are free. I don't use any of them.

Glad your area isn't in bad shape.

Sam Ali

It is all eliminated from the harness, however the EGR control vacuum solenoid was still in there and is believed used to activate the MEVI Valve (Buterfly)...

However, I belive the MAP/BARO switch solenoid is there, but I can not locate the MAP sensor. I post some pictures of the EGR tubing that are on the IM but plugged (like a dummy, unconnected) ...

http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/758165

I have a PC Consult software and Interface that I built and tested no EGR as well, however, there is three other registers live register that existed on MY I30 (probably related to MEVI ?? operation) that do not exist on US or Australian version...and it does not have the left and right bank O2 sensors.....

Broaner

iTrader: (10)

All this is very interesting. No O2's? Wow. In the US 95's and possibly 96's the MAP is located to the tranny side of the front valve cover. In US 99's the MAP says boost sensor and is connected to the intake snorkel. Everything else in between I don't know. I'd really like to know if you have no MAP cause I'd like to eliminate it.

Looking at those pics makes me realize two things. 1. US cars suck. Everyone else gets the nicer and more powerful versions. 2. Right drive is very crammed on your drivers side. I mean you got power steering, brake MC, clutch MC, steering rack, throttle cable. That is a long way for the clutch fluid to travel. Also, the A/C stuff besides compressor is on other side cause the evap box need to be under the glove box. I guess I understand why there are so many templated holes on the firewall.

VQuick

iTrader: (17)

Yeah, but if you go to some of these other countries and see how polluted they are (and how unsafe the roadway systems are), you'll appreciate the US more.

Bottom line: it's a very good thing that we have emissions controls and that California is leading the way with tighter regulation, just as they did with seatbelts back in the day. Lord knows the carmakers aren't going to voluntarily do these things; in fact they fought mandatory seat belts in cars every step of the way until they finally had to give in, but that wasn't until the 1960s.

90% of the driving public does not need the few extra HP that you get when you get rid of emissions devices, and 100% of us need a healthy environment. For the true enthusiast though, I support limited emissions controls. We all know how much the pre-cats hurt performance.

Sam Ali

Yeah, I do agree with with Vquick on polution control, it does make sense with over 200 millions cars in the US. Indonesia is much different, total car population may be just 10 millions. While the mayority of the people on daily basis are still worried about their daily food, where to shelter. I don't think you see much motor cycle on the street in the US, however, you will see motor cycle outnumber cars by a factor of 5 in indonesia. So people priority is more focussed on others than polution, having a car is considered a luxury in Indonesia. However, the government is starting to focus on polution in bigger city now. To me, without EGR and O2 sensors is acceptable in Indonesia, since they cause more trouble than good, caused by the poor quality of gasoline here. My other cars with O2 sensors give me CEL light every other 3 days because of O2 sensors, fouled by bad quality gasoline... Indeed the VQ30 pulled really hard and when raced again Mercedes C300, the I30 pull ahead (up to 60 Km/h). So for those who are running in Track or doing week end racing it might be a good things. However, I do not know whether having O2 and no O2 is better for engine performance in term of HP as the ECU is going to operate in open loop all the times ?? With respect to MAP sensor, my CAR is subject to some work next week, and I will try to locate and take picture of the things around the engine bay for posting ....

SPiG

iTrader: (7)

Those that have taken off EGR, was it worth it? Do you feel some lag in partial throttle? What resistors does it take to fool the ECU? I am very interested in seeing how this would affect drivability in both the short term and long term. It would definitely keep the manifold cleaner which would help performance and prevent problems in the long run, but would this cause us to not pass emissions and how much would it affect the partial throttle drivabilty of our cars?

I understand the theory but in reality is the mess that EGR causes and the likely hood of failure of the system in the long run worth any kind of good this system could create for power or is it only an emissions thing?

Nismo3112

iTrader: (12)

So far with 180k on the motor:
Egr has been removed for about 6000 miles.
I get NO codes, I left the solenoid and temp sensor connected.
I did not feel any decrease in performance in the midrange. Still hauls like a ****.

Broaner

iTrader: (10)

That is very good to hear. I don't remember there being any plug besides the temp. It looked to me like it all ran off vacum. Then again I haven't seen the wiring harness in over a month. How is your fuel economy? Kris has said that his hasn't changed and is at 30+MPG.

It won't really keep it cleaner. It will stop it from getting dirtier but some serious cleaning will be required to get it back to cast aluminum. I spent 10 hours cleaning it with some serious parts cleaning solvent and it barely looks like I touched it. I think that might be what you meant. Just making sure.

Nismo3112

iTrader: (12)

my MPG has always sucked at 18 - 20 mpg city. But then again I never drive the speed limit.