phillylew

I am comparing the Infiniti I30 and the Maxima GLE fully loaded with comparable equipment. Their specs are pretty comparable,with the Infiniti having a bit better fit and finish. Are there any important differences in the 2 cars that I should think about that would justify the $2000-3000 price difference?

TIA.

Lew

pmar

Here's a chance to get the most for your money. Check out the Audi A6, esp. A6 2.7T. AWD and faster. Nothing to lose, everything to gain.

But as far as Infinity vs. Maxima, it may simply be a matter of looks. Infinity looks average but not weird. Plus I believe the warranty is longer. If you go "knees to the grille" I think you can take the I30T for a low price. According to Edmunds they average only $500 over invoice, which is 29 grand. Still, that's about $1000 too high, you can easily go into their holdback these cars are not selling. Rule of thumb it's no different than '98 only there's no $2500 rebate, so expect to shave 4-4.5K off the list. Oh they'll smile and say no the first round, but they'll call you back next week before May 1 and ask if you can take delivery before Tuesday. Don't try this on a BMW, those sales are c**** as their cars are selling like hotcakes.

Pervis Anathema

iTrader: (8)

Hmmm... this is maxima.org. Wander what we will say?

I don't know much about Infiniti. However, if you bought the Max, you could put the $3k you saved in mods. I have an idea the Max is lighter too. That would help out on the performance side.

CKNY

iTrader: (1)

honest opinion? If you're considering these two cars you obviously want a slushbox - what about the acura tl-s? 260 hp, great quality..this is THE most bang for the buck you can get. The TL w/out navigation is just about the same price as an I30 according to edmunds... add navigation for about $1500.

Honestly, that's the way i'd go...

Sonic

Trader! The acura-tl has its own forum, www.acura-tl.com . Read through some of their posts, they seem to have problems similar to ours. They have a perception that the Maxima isn't in their 'class' though.
Are you looking for features w/value or 'prestige'? Most everything that the I30 has over the Maxima is purely cosmetic. A Maxima may be cheaper. BTW, the new Altima is coming out in September if you can wait. It will effectively become what the Maxima is today.

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

Read through some of their posts, they seem to have problems similar to ours.

while the TL has a few flaws, it's nothing compared to a Maxima.....

They have a perception that the Maxima isn't in their 'class' though.

Driven both. Quite honestly, they're right.

Are you looking for features w/value or 'prestige'? Most everything that the I30 has over the Maxima is purely cosmetic.

True. But the quality control on I30s is MUCH tighter than Maximas.


I've taken apart the interiors of both my 99 Max and dad's 99 TL. It ain't even close, the Acura is built MUCH better.

MaineI30

I say i30. I like mine a lot.

I mean I especially like the much longer warranty and the superior service (except my dealer, ha ha)

I drove a TL. Nice car, but too small for me. The other think I like about my i30 is it's pretty stealth.

Green 2kSE

How do you know that the quality control on the I30 is "MUCH tighter"? Can you elaborate on why you think the Acura is "built MUCH better"? I am not jumping on you, I am seriously interested in finding out the quality differences (if any) between the cars. Coming from a loaded I30t 5spd, I can't say I've noticed lowered quality standards on the new Max.

Paul6speed

The TL is not that much out of class. It has a better interior than the Maxima, but not the I30 interior. The 5 speed is better than the 4 speed though. It really depends on what you are looking for. If you want something with more room, go with the Maxima or I-30. The Type S is very nice though. If you want an I30, wait until this fall for the I35 with 260 HP.

Reliability: Check out April 2001 Consumer Reports.

Reliability of Upscale Cars:

1) Infiniti I30
2) Lexus ES300
3) Mazda Millenia
4) Acura TL
5) BMW 3 Series


Acura dealers are not known to bargain for price. Also consider how many Acura dealers are nearby. There is only one in my county.

MaineI30

Well the other thing is that the i30 is much more reliable than the TL.

Infiniti's QC is much better than Nissan. They use a different line (plant/etc.) and different engineers. A very major divergence point occured starting in 2000. The i30 and the Max are not made on the same lines anymore.

Their QC people are paid (bonus-wise) based on number of oversights / consumer complaints. Each car is tracked (VIN) for its "ownership experience" rating, and the feedback loop is much more intense than the Nissan loop. It's one of the reasons why you pay more.

Finally, the i30 interior makes the TL interior look cheap and chintzy by comparison.

Green 2kSE

The quality between, say 2000 model I30 and Maxima are almost identical according to J.D.Power ratings. The Maxima gets slightly less points for the style, which is subjective, of course. I can't say I've seen any Acura score higher on reliability/quality ratings than an Infiniti.

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Green 2kSE
[B]

How do you know that the quality control on the I30 is "MUCH tighter"?

Not explicitly. There is a different QC process for Infinitis than for Nissans. This is brought to light through the J.D. Power problems per 100 cars rating as well as Consumer Reports' annual auto issue. Check it out. You'll see that the I30 (and to a greater extent, the G20) have fewer problems and less 'issues' than the Max.

And please note this is more of a 4th gen comparison and not necesaarily a 5th gen comparison. For Y2k, Nissan wanted to further separate the I30 and Max, so they are built on different assembly lines and I imagine the QC has changed as well. Hopefully for the better for the Max.

Can you elaborate on why you think the Acura is "built MUCH better"?

I've taken the seats, door panels, etc. out of both a 99 Max and a 99 TL. Based upon how everything 'fits', the TL is built much better. Very similar to how my 94 Maxima is put together. You REALLY don't want to know the differences between the 3rd and 4th gen Maximas. The cost-cutting 'features' would make you sick.

Coming from a loaded I30t 5spd, I can't say I've noticed lowered quality standards on the new Max.

Again, that may be true with the 5th gens, as I have no direct experiences with them.....

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

Well the other thing is that the i30 is much more reliable than the TL.

Really? Anthony, I gotta disagree with ya on that one, as I would tend to think (and have read) they are neck and neck. Where did you read this?

Infiniti's QC is much better than Nissan. They use a different line (plant/etc.) and different engineers. A very major divergence point occured starting in 2000. The i30 and the Max are not made on the same lines anymore.

Yep, exactly right. Just like I explained in a previous post.

Finally, the i30 interior makes the TL interior look cheap and chintzy by comparison.

Honestly haven't looked at an I30 that throoughly, although it does look more elegant that the TL's.....


Looks like I should have qualified my statements with 4th gen Max/I30 from the beginning........

Green 2kSE

I guess the keyword is "noticed" in "I can't say I've noticed lowered quality standards on the new Max." If there are cost-cutting measures taken, they are not fairly obvious. I have only noticed that the plastic material is softer (and probably thinner) and the headliner is a bit thinner. My old I30 had the same horrible paint chips as the Max, so I can't hold it against it.

MaineI30

Consumer Reports for 2001 is one example..

MaineI30

From what I read -- consumer reports, cartrack, etc. The order of reliability for the big imports is generally this:

1. Toyota/Lexus
2. Nissan/Infiniti
3. Honda/Acura

Further, I remember reading a report when I worked for the state, and the number of lemon law claims were in exactly that reverse order. They were miniscule compared to domestics, but still in that order.

I drove both (and many other cars) before I made my decision on this one. The TL is just as plasticy and tacky as an Accord. The i30 is definitely nicer.

EZ

Yeah, but the TL-S would spank the I-30 silly Can't wait for the I35. Anyway, the prices on the TLS and CLS are pretty damn good right now. You can get one $500 over invoice.

Also, the Acura people complain about it being made in the US. At least Infiniti and Nissans are made in Japan. Waaaaay better QC in Japan.

EZ

MaxedOut97SE

I'm sorry, but I have to put my 2 cents in here. I disagree totally about the Maxima/I30 not having quality levels up to that of the Acuras. I drive a '97 Maxima w/ 65K miles. My roomate has a '97 Acura 3.0 CL w/ 70K. Um, where do I start with his car.... Ok, the window motors had to be fixed, so did his power locks, the climate control makes this horrible noise, his low-beam headlights do not work, niether does his radio, the check engine light is on (for like the 5th time), the transmission feels as if it's going to drop from the car when it shifts, and the leather looks like s*** compared to mine. And he services his car religiously, at every interval. Basically, there should be a blue oval on the hood. And my car, not one problem to date. NOTHING, mechanically wise and quality wise. Now I'm not saying that a TL is going to have those kinds of problems, but after all it is based on a Honda Accord (ridiculous) just like the CL. And I'm dissapointed because before that I did think Acura's were great cars. Oh, and for all you that think TL's have such great fit-and-finish, go look at one from the rear. The exaust isn't even in the center of the cutout. And I'm not talking about by 2mm, it is obvious!

Weasel

iTrader: (2)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bill99gxe
[B]I would like to know the difference... not a flame or rude in any way, I'm really curious. BTW, I'm not gonna take it as an insult if you rip the 4th gen to pieces.

Sonic

BTW, what class exactly are the Maxima and TL in? It seems that TL owners see the I30 as 'in their class', while the Maxima is not.But what defines a class? The engine/output, the fit and finish, the optional accessories, the price? Any insights would be appreciated.

CoolMax

iTrader: (7)

Depending on the actual price difference (which model I30 you're getting), I'd go with the I30. Not only are you buying the name, the service, the "prestige", but you're also getting a diferent look.

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

comparison is flawed. The CL (before the new one arrived) was not intended to compete with the Maxima. Rather, it was an entry-level Acura similar to the G20. Infiniti/Nissan got it right on this one, as the G20 is consistently one of the best built 4-doors for the $$$....Meanwhile, Acura cut WAY too many corners with their CL, and it ended being more of a liability then a competent entry-level vehicle. The TL does cut some corners, but it's still 'fits' together much better than my 99.....

As for your TL bashing, my dad's 99 TL's exhaust ports look fine and on-center.

CoolMax

iTrader: (7)

Another problem is that people cite specific cases as problems that apply to the entire spectrum, in this case the CL.
I'm sure you could find someone who's had the exact opposite experience in which the Max had the fitment issues and other problems and the CL had none.

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

I should compare 3rd and 4th gens since they are both Maximas. Here's on example:

Door Panels:

94 Max:
Either 10 or 12 (can't recall) plastic trim holders are used in the front door, along with 2 main screws and 2 secondary screws that hold the door pull on. Takes FOREVER to get off, though. Sturdy. Made from quality vinyl, except the door pull.

99 Max
4 plastic trim holders are used in the front door panels, along with 2 smallish screws on the bottom of the panel and a screw for the door cup (pull). Much more flex than the 3rd gen door. Furthermore, there are styrofoam 'blocks' half-a$$ glued on to the door panels to prevent such flexing. However the glue doesn't hold and everyone with a 97 to 99 Max should probably remove their door panels and re-glue these pieces properly. I also noted a LOT of rattles in the doors disappeared when doing this, which should have been done at the factory to begin with. Not real sturdy. Made from decent vinyl.

This is one example of several where SLOPPY assembly (not necessarily the pieces) makes the car much less of a flagship in my eyes. When cutting corners, it's wise to make sure the cheap replacement parts at least do their job.


I have always suspected that my quality issues apply to the 97 to 99 model Maxes only, as I don't see anyone post these issues on the 95 to 96 Maxes.....it's like that second MAJOR cost reduction in 97 to address safety crash test issues forced more sloppy assembly methods.


In terms of the TL, I equate it to my 99 Max as such:

It's as if the TL interior parts were designed to fit by an engineer, while the Max interior parts were designed to fit by someone in marketing.......

Using plastic clips is fine, but not using them properly leads to a cheaper overall impression of a car's build quality.

MaxedOut97SE

I wasn't comparing a CL to a Maxima, I was comparing an Acura to a Nissan. And I'm not talking about a '99 TL, I'm talking about the 2001's. My friend and I went to the Acura dealership and looked at a row of TL's from behind, and they all had that problem. And bash the Maxima all you want, but I read a quote one time that said "Fit and finish is as good as the best luxury car." I can't remember who exactly said that, but it was a reputable source.

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

pmar

Class is subjective. Is an Infiniti higher class than a Nissan? I think so. Is an Acura higher than a Honda? I think so. Is an Acura higher than a Nissan? Yes. Is an Acura higher than an Infiniti? I think so. ahahaha *lol* Actually they are comparable. But do I think the CL-S is a nice looking car. Why do I have to think Maxima is better looking just because I drive one? But too bad the CL-S can't have a manual, so it's out. Baby Jag to the rescue this fall!

But real class is when your car has 8" rims or above, so put some aftermarkets on. Width does matter!

MaxedOut97SE

Well, since you are sooooooo wise, being the moderator and all, and know all about every automobile, I figured you'd know it was the 2001 TL. The older models don't even have an exaust cutout. Oh, but I'm sure you already knew that.
And say what you want about my so-called comparo, but the bottom line is that his Acura has been in the shop more times than I can count, while my "inferior, out-classed" Nissan hasn't been once. Oh and that quote came from Autoweek, so now it's not "irrefutable".

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

MaineI30

Yup, every night I go to sleep .. I dream .. in awe .. thinking to myself -- if only I could have moderator power on Maxima.org .. now that's truly a geopolitical suite of power with which not to mess.

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

Trust me, you REALLY don't want this job......

Sonic

MaineI30

No, you're right, I don't.

pmar

haha think back a few years, remember when it was exciting to become a "system administrator?" It was "your" system, people would be calling and emailing you for rights. It's cool when you're 23, but then you become the administrator of too many and you realize what a bunch of ******** it is!! hehe I remember back when I thought "systems analyst" and then "senior systems analyst" was a nice title. It was rated high on some crazy rank of prestige jobs--seriously, it was way up there, and had a promising salary too. Now many of us know the real deal, huh?

MaineI30

That was a long, LONG time ago.

Chummin

I bought the Infinity because it flat out beat the rest of the cars I test drove. It was not all about performance, it was not all about sport, it was not all about cost, it was not all about the drive. It was about the experience.

I was sold on the Lexus IS300 and then I drove the I30t. never went back to lexus. Acura was very similar. It felt like a car that I would "drive" around. I wanted atmosphere and something I would enjoy sitting in during rush hour traffic.

SERVICE, SERVICE, and SERVICE. take the car in for an oil change and get a loaner. try that at a nissan dealer. And the loaner is another I30, not like lexus where they give you a base model corolla with an 8 track player. Acura didn't even show me the service area or plan. Infinity is proud of it and will tour you through the service department. That is important unless you can go without your car for days at a time when repairs are needed.

IMO, the infinity is the way to go. It is a maxima with a little snap to it so I don't feel it out classes the nissan. it just has a few upgrades.

MaineI30

I totally agree with you -- pretty similar line of thinking with me and why I bought mine.

TexMaximum

Let me address the questions asked; Differences!

My 130T has great HID headlights, people stop and ask if I did that to the car every week, and what kinda “cool” bulbs did I use. The maxima does not.
The I30T has a rear power suns hade, great conversational peace, and does work, the Maxima does not.
The I30T does have better grade interior and material then the Maxima.
The I30T has Viscus Limited Slip, the Maxima GLE does not
Nissan service department sucks, Infiniti does not (mine rated #1 infiniti dealer in the nation)
The I30T has more safety features such as side impact airbags, which are not available to my knowledge on the Maxima
The 5 extra HP doesn’t hurt either



And all major body panels are no longer Maxima clones for a fresh European look. I honestly get people in Lexuses, and BMWs stop and ask me about the car. I got it over a 3 series even, because those are dime a dozen, and the I30T is rather limitly produced.

On top of all this, if you know what your doing, you can get all these cool improvements, plus that nifty cup holder that comes out the dash for about 800 to $1200 over a fuuly loaded Maxima, and the HID and limited slip alone is worth more then that, not to mention how great I feel they look.

I also was going to consider a is300, and bought this over it, due to refinement, looks, and interior room. I think the techy effect will ware off on the is300, everyone has those stupid tail lights, and in Texas, you will burn your self on the chrome shift ball

MaineI30

Seeing an i30t around is much less common (for me anyway) than seeing a 3 or 5 series BMW. I mean, they're all over the place (but they are great cars.) I like having something I don't see 90 other people with every day. It's cool. Plus, mine's kinda special, too.

I almost waited for the is300 also -- but when I saw it i was glad I didn't. A pretty car, but too small.

Love my i30t, but wish I was using Tex's dealer... Mine's good, just not excellent.

Green 2kSE

I would have bought another I30t but Infiniti was shortsighted enough to drop the 5 speed. I did drive an auto I30 and it felt like a different car altogether. Let's hope with the upcoming two RWD Infiniti models they will offer again a manual tranny.