IMPORTANT LINK FOR SHINGLES->
08-23-2000, 03:28 PM
#1
08-23-2000, 04:30 PM
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,989
i dunno know why people hate SUV's, of course those 2wd are lame, but a 4wd one with cargo space is quite usful in winter and hauling stuff, isn't it?
btw, doesn't shing's parents have a van, shouldn't suv haters hate vans too?
btw, doesn't shing's parents have a van, shouldn't suv haters hate vans too?
08-23-2000, 04:35 PM
#4
The missing moderator
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,019
Originally posted by WoodEar
i dunno know why people hate SUV's, of course those 2wd are lame, but a 4wd one with cargo space is quite usful in winter and hauling stuff, isn't it?
btw, doesn't shing's parents have a van, shouldn't suv haters hate vans too?
i dunno know why people hate SUV's, of course those 2wd are lame, but a 4wd one with cargo space is quite usful in winter and hauling stuff, isn't it?
btw, doesn't shing's parents have a van, shouldn't suv haters hate vans too?
Emm, let's not put minivans and SUV in the same class. Most people who buy SUV's don't use it for ****. yeah 4WD winter time... 4 months out of the year... plus most SUV drivers put them self in greater danager b/c they think they have 4wd and will be safe...
Most people who buy minivans buy them for a purpose. SUVs is a fashion trend... minivan is used for utility. My parents have a minivan and use it accordingly. Atleast 3-4 times a week, there are more than 5 people in the minivan with groceries, musical instruments, and what not.
Again, how is it that you are classifying SUVs and minivans? How many SUVs are truely worthy as an off roader? VERY few... but how many minivans can't carry 6 people, none. Minivans are tools and people buy them to use accordingly. SUV is a fashion statement... very few people buy them for their "intended" purpose.
08-23-2000, 04:40 PM
#5
Originally posted by Shingles
Emm, let's not put minivans and SUV in the same class. Most people who buy SUV's don't use it for ****. yeah 4WD winter time... 4 months out of the year... plus most SUV drivers put them self in greater danager b/c they think they have 4wd and will be safe...
Most people who buy minivans buy them for a purpose. SUVs is a fashion trend... minivan is used for utility. My parents have a minivan and use it accordingly. Atleast 3-4 times a week, there are more than 5 people in the minivan with groceries, musical instruments, and what not.
Again, how is it that you are classifying SUVs and minivans? How many SUVs are truely worthy as an off roader? VERY few... but how many minivans can't carry 6 people, none. Minivans are tools and people buy them to use accordingly. SUV is a fashion statement... very few people buy them for their "intended" purpose.
Emm, let's not put minivans and SUV in the same class. Most people who buy SUV's don't use it for ****. yeah 4WD winter time... 4 months out of the year... plus most SUV drivers put them self in greater danager b/c they think they have 4wd and will be safe...
Most people who buy minivans buy them for a purpose. SUVs is a fashion trend... minivan is used for utility. My parents have a minivan and use it accordingly. Atleast 3-4 times a week, there are more than 5 people in the minivan with groceries, musical instruments, and what not.
Again, how is it that you are classifying SUVs and minivans? How many SUVs are truely worthy as an off roader? VERY few... but how many minivans can't carry 6 people, none. Minivans are tools and people buy them to use accordingly. SUV is a fashion statement... very few people buy them for their "intended" purpose.
Well put, thanks Shing.....
But you know more is coming from the 'wood.
08-23-2000, 04:40 PM
#6
Well I pretty much hate vans too ->
for the same reasons I dislike Suvs. Owners rarely take the time to look around BEFORE they change lanes. Why to SUV and mini-van windows come tinted from the factory? So to make the visibility that much worse?? At least mini-van owners don't pretent to be outdoorsy by buying a vehicle designed for dirt but absolutely never take them off the pavement. Hell I saw some idiot(suv driver) slow down for a railroad crossing. haha
At the same time, my wife might end up w/ a SUV. haha. I'll eat my words then.
At the same time, my wife might end up w/ a SUV. haha. I'll eat my words then.
08-23-2000, 04:47 PM
#7
Re: Well I pretty much hate vans too ->
Originally posted by Jeff92se
At the same time, my wife might end up w/ a SUV. haha. I'll eat my words then.
At the same time, my wife might end up w/ a SUV. haha. I'll eat my words then.
08-23-2000, 04:52 PM
#8
Re: Re: Well I pretty much hate vans too ->
Originally posted by Lordrandall
Ahhhh not that, then we'll have to dispose of you and draw lots for the 2K muffler......
Originally posted by Jeff92se
At the same time, my wife might end up w/ a SUV. haha. I'll eat my words then.
At the same time, my wife might end up w/ a SUV. haha. I'll eat my words then.
i got dibs
08-23-2000, 05:21 PM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,989
>>> Emm, let's not put minivans and SUV in the same class.
I didn't say they are the same type of car or in the same class. They do have something in common.
>>> Most people who buy SUV's don't use it for ****. yeah 4WD winter time... 4 months out of the year...
I do see your point, but they might not be valid.
1) It's not proved that people who buy SUV don't use it for what they are made for, it's just your feeling or observation. I see minivan with one person in it all the time on the road, I won't make a statemnet that most of minivan people who buy minivan don't use it for ****.
2) Not everyone has the money to get a car just for winter. Some people can have a SUV sitting there just for the snow days, use it twice a months. Most of the people can't afford that, thus they have to drive a SUV in non-winter also.
>>> plus most SUV drivers put them self in greater danager b/c they think they have 4wd and will be safe...
Again, invalid since it's not proved. I am sure some do, but I don't know if it's *most*.
Some minivan drivers are endanger themselves and others on the road too. Heck, some sedan drivers do that too.
Bottom line: some people just can't drive and should not be allowed on the road. SUV is not the only problem.
>>> Most people who buy minivans buy them for a purpose. SUVs is a fashion trend... minivan is used for utility. My parents have a minivan and use it accordingly. Atleast 3-4 times a week, there are more than 5 people in the minivan with groceries, musical instruments, and what not.
Not true. You can't deny SUV has it's own use. It can carry more stuff than average cars. Now, don't show me the BS demension and say they aren't much bigger, the fact is if you ever load some big stuff into a car and a SUV, you know the difference, SUV can handle stuff that's extra size and funny shaped. You think a Maxima can carry a coffee table and a desk from IKEA? I don't think so, but SUV can.
Also SUV is 4wd and better for winter use.
So just like minivan, which can carry 7 adults, SUV has it's own use.
>>> Again, how is it that you are classifying SUVs and minivans? How many SUVs are truely worthy as an off roader? VERY few...
I agree, not many SUV are truly off-roader. However, we don't know whether people buy them for the off-road purpose or not. IMHO, most of people buy SUV is because they can carry more stuff and it's 4WD.
>>> but how many minivans can't carry 6 people, none. Minivans are tools and people buy them to use accordingly. SUV is a fashion statement... very few people buy them for their "intended" purpose.
If the "intend purpose" is offroad, then you are right. However see above, I think more people are buying it for the cargo space and 4WD factor.
Concluion:
SUV does have it's own use, I don't think anyone can deny that. Now of course they do take more space but so are minivan and trucks. Some people do drive them bad but there are people drive anything bad anyway.
Thus I don't see why hating the SUV itself.
I didn't say they are the same type of car or in the same class. They do have something in common.
>>> Most people who buy SUV's don't use it for ****. yeah 4WD winter time... 4 months out of the year...
I do see your point, but they might not be valid.
1) It's not proved that people who buy SUV don't use it for what they are made for, it's just your feeling or observation. I see minivan with one person in it all the time on the road, I won't make a statemnet that most of minivan people who buy minivan don't use it for ****.
2) Not everyone has the money to get a car just for winter. Some people can have a SUV sitting there just for the snow days, use it twice a months. Most of the people can't afford that, thus they have to drive a SUV in non-winter also.
>>> plus most SUV drivers put them self in greater danager b/c they think they have 4wd and will be safe...
Again, invalid since it's not proved. I am sure some do, but I don't know if it's *most*.
Some minivan drivers are endanger themselves and others on the road too. Heck, some sedan drivers do that too.
Bottom line: some people just can't drive and should not be allowed on the road. SUV is not the only problem.
>>> Most people who buy minivans buy them for a purpose. SUVs is a fashion trend... minivan is used for utility. My parents have a minivan and use it accordingly. Atleast 3-4 times a week, there are more than 5 people in the minivan with groceries, musical instruments, and what not.
Not true. You can't deny SUV has it's own use. It can carry more stuff than average cars. Now, don't show me the BS demension and say they aren't much bigger, the fact is if you ever load some big stuff into a car and a SUV, you know the difference, SUV can handle stuff that's extra size and funny shaped. You think a Maxima can carry a coffee table and a desk from IKEA? I don't think so, but SUV can.
Also SUV is 4wd and better for winter use.
So just like minivan, which can carry 7 adults, SUV has it's own use.
>>> Again, how is it that you are classifying SUVs and minivans? How many SUVs are truely worthy as an off roader? VERY few...
I agree, not many SUV are truly off-roader. However, we don't know whether people buy them for the off-road purpose or not. IMHO, most of people buy SUV is because they can carry more stuff and it's 4WD.
>>> but how many minivans can't carry 6 people, none. Minivans are tools and people buy them to use accordingly. SUV is a fashion statement... very few people buy them for their "intended" purpose.
If the "intend purpose" is offroad, then you are right. However see above, I think more people are buying it for the cargo space and 4WD factor.
Concluion:
SUV does have it's own use, I don't think anyone can deny that. Now of course they do take more space but so are minivan and trucks. Some people do drive them bad but there are people drive anything bad anyway.
Thus I don't see why hating the SUV itself.
08-23-2000, 11:11 PM
#12
The missing moderator
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,019
>>> Most people who buy SUV's don't use it for ****. yeah 4WD winter time... 4 months out of the year...
>>>I do see your point, but they might not be valid.
1) It's not proved that people who buy SUV don't use it for what they are made for, it's just your feeling or observation.
No, there has been "studies" surveys that show some outragous percentage of SUVs NEVER ever see unpaved road.
>>> plus most SUV drivers put them self in greater danager b/c they think they have 4wd and will be safe...
>>>Again, invalid since it's not proved. I am sure some do, but I don't know if it's *most*.
Some minivan drivers are endanger themselves and others on the road too. Heck, some sedan drivers do that too.
Bottom line: some people just can't drive and should not be allowed on the road. SUV is not the only problem.
The problem is worsen by the sense of false security.
>>>Not true. You can't deny SUV has it's own use. It can carry more stuff than average cars. Now, don't show me the BS demension and say they aren't much bigger, the fact is if you ever load some big stuff into a car and a SUV, you know the difference, SUV can handle stuff that's extra size and funny shaped. You think a Maxima can carry a coffee table and a desk from IKEA? I don't think so, but SUV can.
Also SUV is 4wd and better for winter use.
So just like minivan, which can carry 7 adults, SUV has it's own use.
How many times do you go to Ikea and buy a coffee table a week?
>>>I agree, not many SUV are truly off-roader. However, we don't know whether people buy them for the off-road purpose or not. IMHO, most of people buy SUV is because they can carry more stuff and it's 4WD.
No, people buy SUVs b/c it's the in thing to do. Wealthy people don't buy the regular caddy's anymore, they buy the caddy SUV... b/c it's fashionable.
>>>If the "intend purpose" is offroad, then you are right. However see above, I think more people are buying it for the cargo space and 4WD factor.
Again, people are not buying them b/c they are bigger and have 4WD. Hell I read somewhere that a lot of the SUVs sold these days are infact 2WD versions. It's fashionable to have SUVs...
I dislike the SUV mainly b/c it causes people to drive poorly. Maybe this is not true in other states, but in Texas... suv drivers are generally pretty bad. True some of them are bad drivers period... but the false sense of "my car is safe" causes them to be less cautious.
-Shing
>>>I do see your point, but they might not be valid.
1) It's not proved that people who buy SUV don't use it for what they are made for, it's just your feeling or observation.
No, there has been "studies" surveys that show some outragous percentage of SUVs NEVER ever see unpaved road.
>>> plus most SUV drivers put them self in greater danager b/c they think they have 4wd and will be safe...
>>>Again, invalid since it's not proved. I am sure some do, but I don't know if it's *most*.
Some minivan drivers are endanger themselves and others on the road too. Heck, some sedan drivers do that too.
Bottom line: some people just can't drive and should not be allowed on the road. SUV is not the only problem.
The problem is worsen by the sense of false security.
>>>Not true. You can't deny SUV has it's own use. It can carry more stuff than average cars. Now, don't show me the BS demension and say they aren't much bigger, the fact is if you ever load some big stuff into a car and a SUV, you know the difference, SUV can handle stuff that's extra size and funny shaped. You think a Maxima can carry a coffee table and a desk from IKEA? I don't think so, but SUV can.
Also SUV is 4wd and better for winter use.
So just like minivan, which can carry 7 adults, SUV has it's own use.
How many times do you go to Ikea and buy a coffee table a week?
>>>I agree, not many SUV are truly off-roader. However, we don't know whether people buy them for the off-road purpose or not. IMHO, most of people buy SUV is because they can carry more stuff and it's 4WD.
No, people buy SUVs b/c it's the in thing to do. Wealthy people don't buy the regular caddy's anymore, they buy the caddy SUV... b/c it's fashionable.
>>>If the "intend purpose" is offroad, then you are right. However see above, I think more people are buying it for the cargo space and 4WD factor.
Again, people are not buying them b/c they are bigger and have 4WD. Hell I read somewhere that a lot of the SUVs sold these days are infact 2WD versions. It's fashionable to have SUVs...
I dislike the SUV mainly b/c it causes people to drive poorly. Maybe this is not true in other states, but in Texas... suv drivers are generally pretty bad. True some of them are bad drivers period... but the false sense of "my car is safe" causes them to be less cautious.
-Shing
08-24-2000, 12:25 AM
#13
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Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,989
>>> No, there has been "studies" surveys that show some outragous percentage of SUVs NEVER ever see unpaved road.
Well, that's exactly the point that SUV haters keep missing.
Why do you *assume* SUV owners are buying SUV's to go offroad on unpaved road??? How do you know the reason SUV owners buy SUV??
I think many SUV owners are in it for the size and 4WD factor.
>>> The problem is worsen by the sense of false security.
Agreed. However again you are assuming that all the SUV drivers get a false security by driving a SUV, which is not proved to be true.
>>> How many times do you go to Ikea and buy a coffee table a week?
I don't buy coffee table often, but I do go to IKEA often and I always buy something, a desk, a rug, a cabinet... Plus I go to Home Depot buy plant and stuff once a while, and I might buy some big item like AC or TV or speakers once a long while... I don't need a SUV everyday of course, but it definitely comes handy at many occations. I will honestly say about twice a month I wish I had a SUV
Some people need it even more, look at my neighbour with a baby, I don't think he can get around without a SUV, you ever see how many things parents have to carry when they have a new born kid when they go somewhere?
Lastly, look at your own case. Your family has a van, I am sure it comes handly many times. Now, let's say the van is gone, do you feel the need to get something big that can haul stuff? Or you always gonna borrow/rent one everytime? If you do feel you need one, and suppose you never need to carry 7 people, will you still get a van or you will get a SUV this time?
Lots of people have no need for the seats, they just want something can carry stuff, they feel SUV looks better than minivan, so they become SUV owners, it's very normal, I don't see why you hate them.
>>> No, people buy SUVs b/c it's the in thing to do. Wealthy people don't buy the regular caddy's anymore, they buy the caddy SUV... b/c it's fashionable.
I am sure some people do that. But may I remind you that you yourself hate generalization?
There are people out there need SUV, like my neighbour, not because it's a fashion statement.
My conclusion:
I think the fair way to see it, that if a person really has no needs for a SUV, nor does he have the skill to drive one properly, and still buys a SUV, then of course you are right, I think it's non-sense too.
However, they are people that do benefit from having a SUV, then it's not fair to hate them in general.
Plus, it's the people you are hating, not the SUV itself.
Well, that's exactly the point that SUV haters keep missing.
Why do you *assume* SUV owners are buying SUV's to go offroad on unpaved road??? How do you know the reason SUV owners buy SUV??
I think many SUV owners are in it for the size and 4WD factor.
>>> The problem is worsen by the sense of false security.
Agreed. However again you are assuming that all the SUV drivers get a false security by driving a SUV, which is not proved to be true.
>>> How many times do you go to Ikea and buy a coffee table a week?
I don't buy coffee table often, but I do go to IKEA often and I always buy something, a desk, a rug, a cabinet... Plus I go to Home Depot buy plant and stuff once a while, and I might buy some big item like AC or TV or speakers once a long while... I don't need a SUV everyday of course, but it definitely comes handy at many occations. I will honestly say about twice a month I wish I had a SUV
Some people need it even more, look at my neighbour with a baby, I don't think he can get around without a SUV, you ever see how many things parents have to carry when they have a new born kid when they go somewhere?
Lastly, look at your own case. Your family has a van, I am sure it comes handly many times. Now, let's say the van is gone, do you feel the need to get something big that can haul stuff? Or you always gonna borrow/rent one everytime? If you do feel you need one, and suppose you never need to carry 7 people, will you still get a van or you will get a SUV this time?
Lots of people have no need for the seats, they just want something can carry stuff, they feel SUV looks better than minivan, so they become SUV owners, it's very normal, I don't see why you hate them.
>>> No, people buy SUVs b/c it's the in thing to do. Wealthy people don't buy the regular caddy's anymore, they buy the caddy SUV... b/c it's fashionable.
I am sure some people do that. But may I remind you that you yourself hate generalization?
There are people out there need SUV, like my neighbour, not because it's a fashion statement.
My conclusion:
I think the fair way to see it, that if a person really has no needs for a SUV, nor does he have the skill to drive one properly, and still buys a SUV, then of course you are right, I think it's non-sense too.
However, they are people that do benefit from having a SUV, then it's not fair to hate them in general.
Plus, it's the people you are hating, not the SUV itself.
08-24-2000, 06:12 AM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,018
Well how come here in Texas, almost everyone owns a truck or <b>S</b>tupid <b>U</b>gly <b>V</b>ehicle, and we don't get any snow???
You go to the grocery store, and there's tons of Suzy Soccer Moms with Suburbans, Tahoe's, Expeditions, and Excursions, and they don't even put the food in the back. They put them behind the driver's seat. And God forbid they go off-road...
Now what's up with that??
You go to the grocery store, and there's tons of Suzy Soccer Moms with Suburbans, Tahoe's, Expeditions, and Excursions, and they don't even put the food in the back. They put them behind the driver's seat. And God forbid they go off-road...
Now what's up with that??
08-24-2000, 07:02 AM
#15
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thanks woodear...
I have had this discussion w/ shing before...he knows we're in the process of buying an Xterra and it should be here w/i a few months...why?
our reasons:
1) we need a second vehicle, the max won't cut it after i quit my job and we can no longer carpool.
2) i'm planning on moving down size to a miata or similar 2 seater and thus need something to haul 4+ adults and my dog
3) we go hunting (but according to shing's rule it'll only be a few times/year...but this is an added PLUS not the REASON i'm buying a SUV)
4) my wife, who will be the primary driver (at least that's the plan now...hates the look of minivans, station wagons but will consider a truck, more on that below)
5) i often get bulky things from office supply stores, home improvment warehouses, ikea, etc that the maxima WILL NOT HOLD.
6) while i live in texas where it rarely rains or snows, we will not live here forever, and are moving in the next 4 years to a location which WILL have rain and snow (north carolina, seattle, colorado, massachusetts, maryland or the like)
7) now why not a truck? well, it'd have to be a 4x4 b/c of hunting and in the future when we move north (we don't want to have to buy a new car in 4 years w/ 4x4) i'd have to get a king cab to hold 4 adults since my next car will only seat 2. and i'll probably have to get some sort of bed cover for those occasions it rains. Add all that together and list for me a truck that will cost me 22500 or less will you? Then my wife and I may go test it out!
In conclusion, yes i agree many people buy them for status (esp the lexus, infinity, acura models, etc) AND many people don't drive them well, but many people don't drive trucks or cars well either (hell shing should live in college station a few years where 80%+ vehicles are trucks and then tell me if truck drivers drive any better---they dont!). As for the feeling of added safety, yes i admit many people have that feeling, but same goes for truck and van owners, something about being in a vehicle higher off the ground. In fact, i worry about my wife driving something with a higher center of gravity...but compared to what she drives now it'll be safer.
Sorry shing, you've heard my view before...just thought i'd repeat it here...
thx woodear for sharing my opinion
Robert
our reasons:
1) we need a second vehicle, the max won't cut it after i quit my job and we can no longer carpool.
2) i'm planning on moving down size to a miata or similar 2 seater and thus need something to haul 4+ adults and my dog
3) we go hunting (but according to shing's rule it'll only be a few times/year...but this is an added PLUS not the REASON i'm buying a SUV)
4) my wife, who will be the primary driver (at least that's the plan now...hates the look of minivans, station wagons but will consider a truck, more on that below)
5) i often get bulky things from office supply stores, home improvment warehouses, ikea, etc that the maxima WILL NOT HOLD.
6) while i live in texas where it rarely rains or snows, we will not live here forever, and are moving in the next 4 years to a location which WILL have rain and snow (north carolina, seattle, colorado, massachusetts, maryland or the like)
7) now why not a truck? well, it'd have to be a 4x4 b/c of hunting and in the future when we move north (we don't want to have to buy a new car in 4 years w/ 4x4) i'd have to get a king cab to hold 4 adults since my next car will only seat 2. and i'll probably have to get some sort of bed cover for those occasions it rains. Add all that together and list for me a truck that will cost me 22500 or less will you? Then my wife and I may go test it out!
In conclusion, yes i agree many people buy them for status (esp the lexus, infinity, acura models, etc) AND many people don't drive them well, but many people don't drive trucks or cars well either (hell shing should live in college station a few years where 80%+ vehicles are trucks and then tell me if truck drivers drive any better---they dont!). As for the feeling of added safety, yes i admit many people have that feeling, but same goes for truck and van owners, something about being in a vehicle higher off the ground. In fact, i worry about my wife driving something with a higher center of gravity...but compared to what she drives now it'll be safer.
Sorry shing, you've heard my view before...just thought i'd repeat it here...
thx woodear for sharing my opinion
Robert
08-24-2000, 07:10 AM
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,014
Who the hell cares???
Damn, let people drive what they want to drive. The only complaints I've heard against SUV's that make any sense all boil down to the fact that people either hate the image of an SUV, or stereotype SUV drivers. Whatever, do what makes you happy. But, if you want to assume things about SUV drivers, then you should be mad at the population in general for a) buying SUV's and b) not driving them well. It makes no sense to sit there and say how bad SUV's are and then just ***** about their drivers. Screw the drivers, what's actually wrong with an SUV? NOTHING! They have a proper place and they are useful vehicles to many people. So a bunch of people may buy them for image, and may drive them like idiots. Great, but that doesn't change the fact that SUV's are still useful to some people. Get mad at the people, not the car!
08-24-2000, 08:20 AM
#18
The missing moderator
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,019
Re: Who the hell cares???
Originally posted by deathwish
Damn, let people drive what they want to drive. The only complaints I've heard against SUV's that make any sense all boil down to the fact that people either hate the image of an SUV, or stereotype SUV drivers. Whatever, do what makes you happy. But, if you want to assume things about SUV drivers, then you should be mad at the population in general for a) buying SUV's and b) not driving them well. It makes no sense to sit there and say how bad SUV's are and then just ***** about their drivers. Screw the drivers, what's actually wrong with an SUV? NOTHING! They have a proper place and they are useful vehicles to many people. So a bunch of people may buy them for image, and may drive them like idiots. Great, but that doesn't change the fact that SUV's are still useful to some people. Get mad at the people, not the car!
Damn, let people drive what they want to drive. The only complaints I've heard against SUV's that make any sense all boil down to the fact that people either hate the image of an SUV, or stereotype SUV drivers. Whatever, do what makes you happy. But, if you want to assume things about SUV drivers, then you should be mad at the population in general for a) buying SUV's and b) not driving them well. It makes no sense to sit there and say how bad SUV's are and then just ***** about their drivers. Screw the drivers, what's actually wrong with an SUV? NOTHING! They have a proper place and they are useful vehicles to many people. So a bunch of people may buy them for image, and may drive them like idiots. Great, but that doesn't change the fact that SUV's are still useful to some people. Get mad at the people, not the car!
Take it easy there man... it's a discussion. Chris is giving one side and I am giving mine. We sit here and say a lot of things, but isn't what this forum's for? Just to have a "conversation" and throw ideas back and forth?
-Shing
08-24-2000, 08:58 AM
#19
Hmmm_>
Personally, I would not have a problem w/ suvs. Except that they change lanes w/o looking and come from the factory pre-tinted darker than black. I bet that really helps w/ the already poor visibilty of the 4' 1" soccer mom. It's a good thing that Seattle is fairly large beucase the phone book she must use gotta be pretty thick! hehe. If that same person drove a Audi, BMW or Subaru wagon, she would actually have MORE room, superior visibility and better emergency handling. Trust me foul weather driving depends much more on the driving than it does on the vehicle. FWD + limited slip differential will get you around 99.9% of the time in Seattle.
08-24-2000, 09:20 AM
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,989
>>> Personally, I would not have a problem w/ suvs. Except that they change lanes w/o looking...
Minivan drivers, sedan drivers, sports car driver all might do that. It's the driver, not the SUV.
It's like saying I hate Ferrari's cuz some of their drivers are cocky, which is not right.
>>> and come from the factory pre-tinted darker than black.
I dunno about this one. I mean I once drove my company SUV, it looks dark like black from outside, but you can see from inside clearly. It's like a limo, you can't see in but they can see out. I don't think DOT will prove dark glass on SUV unless it's safe to use.
>>> I bet that really helps w/ the already poor visibilty of the 4' 1" soccer mom.
How is the size of the driver has anything to do with how dark the glass is??? If the visibility is so poor then a 7" NBA player can't see thru that dark glass too.
SUV actually helps short people cuz they actually can see the road by sitting higher. This might be a reason for some people to buy SUV
>>> If that same person drove a Audi, BMW or Subaru wagon, she would actually have MORE room, superior visibility and better emergency handling.
You have hard evidence to back that up???
>>> Trust me foul weather driving depends much more on the driving than it does on the vehicle. FWD + limited slip differential will get you around 99.9% of the time in Seattle.
Sure, but what happen to RWD owners?
Last winter I struggled, this winter I want to be prepared. Now why would I want to waste money on another sedan just so the FWD handles snow better than RWD, while I can go for a SUV which is more useful in all aspects??
Minivan drivers, sedan drivers, sports car driver all might do that. It's the driver, not the SUV.
It's like saying I hate Ferrari's cuz some of their drivers are cocky, which is not right.
>>> and come from the factory pre-tinted darker than black.
I dunno about this one. I mean I once drove my company SUV, it looks dark like black from outside, but you can see from inside clearly. It's like a limo, you can't see in but they can see out. I don't think DOT will prove dark glass on SUV unless it's safe to use.
>>> I bet that really helps w/ the already poor visibilty of the 4' 1" soccer mom.
How is the size of the driver has anything to do with how dark the glass is??? If the visibility is so poor then a 7" NBA player can't see thru that dark glass too.
SUV actually helps short people cuz they actually can see the road by sitting higher. This might be a reason for some people to buy SUV
>>> If that same person drove a Audi, BMW or Subaru wagon, she would actually have MORE room, superior visibility and better emergency handling.
You have hard evidence to back that up???
>>> Trust me foul weather driving depends much more on the driving than it does on the vehicle. FWD + limited slip differential will get you around 99.9% of the time in Seattle.
Sure, but what happen to RWD owners?
Last winter I struggled, this winter I want to be prepared. Now why would I want to waste money on another sedan just so the FWD handles snow better than RWD, while I can go for a SUV which is more useful in all aspects??
08-24-2000, 09:59 AM
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
valid Reasons to hate the typical suv driver ->
1. There the ones that normally leave your car f-up
those scratches on the top of my bumper and hood are left by them. Its rediculous how they can't park the damn thing, yet have all the bumper guards so they don't mess up their SUV. I wish I had my camera a couple of weeks ago. I saw and Expedition THAT WAS PARKED ON TOP OF A CRUSHED SHOPPING CART.
2. Lemming safety/superiorty attitude leads to bullying, tall gating(despite poor braking abilites), and
blocking the left lanes (worse than cars, cause you can't see what is in front of them).
3. studys have shown that SUV drivers have more visions of death, goor and harm to other people than regular drivers
In addition, women in SUVs are worse than men in SUVs however, men in sports cars are worse than women in sports cars(according to study in terms of driving aggressiveness).
Other comment: Tractor Tailer drivers, despite driving large vehicles tend to be much more courteous than SUV drivers
08-24-2000, 10:20 AM
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
I hate to help shing in this argument...
but i juest got this link about rollover probabilities...
http://www.usatoday.com/money/consum...s/mauto696.htm
let me say that i find it hard to believve that suv's based on car platform (Cr-v/rav4) are some of the highest percentages to flip/roll over.
Robert
http://www.usatoday.com/money/consum...s/mauto696.htm
let me say that i find it hard to believve that suv's based on car platform (Cr-v/rav4) are some of the highest percentages to flip/roll over.
Robert
08-24-2000, 10:37 AM
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,989
What do you expect?
Life is full of compromises, if you get extra space and higher ground clearance, the thing is gotta be bigger and sits taller. Then it will have a bigger chance of rollover.
You can whoop a turn at 120mph in a NSX, however if you are in a SUV then you should know better that you shall take it easy around turns. People are piloting the vehicles, they should have the intelligence to make good decision upon what they are driving.
Life is full of compromises, if you get extra space and higher ground clearance, the thing is gotta be bigger and sits taller. Then it will have a bigger chance of rollover.
You can whoop a turn at 120mph in a NSX, however if you are in a SUV then you should know better that you shall take it easy around turns. People are piloting the vehicles, they should have the intelligence to make good decision upon what they are driving.
08-24-2000, 11:05 AM
#25
Chris
Being only 4ft has nothing to do w/ tint. But it has everything to do w/ that person not being able to see down and into the blind spot when changing lanes. But in a wagon, that person would have a much easier time seeing in that exact same spot
As far as room? You want to say a suv w/ the seats up have more room than a wagon? Come on now. But once you take the seat out on the suv, well then wagon just folds down their seat
As far as winter in a RWD. How do all those Europeans in thei RWD BMW w/ limited slip diffentials and traction control get to all those ski areas? BTW I saw almost NO SUVS in either London or Paris.
As far as room? You want to say a suv w/ the seats up have more room than a wagon? Come on now. But once you take the seat out on the suv, well then wagon just folds down their seat
As far as winter in a RWD. How do all those Europeans in thei RWD BMW w/ limited slip diffentials and traction control get to all those ski areas? BTW I saw almost NO SUVS in either London or Paris.
08-24-2000, 11:11 AM
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: I hate to help shing in this argument...
Originally posted by Biomax
but i juest got this link about rollover probabilities...
http://www.usatoday.com/money/consum...s/mauto696.htm
let me say that i find it hard to believve that suv's based on car platform (Cr-v/rav4) are some of the highest percentages to flip/roll over.
Robert
but i juest got this link about rollover probabilities...
http://www.usatoday.com/money/consum...s/mauto696.htm
let me say that i find it hard to believve that suv's based on car platform (Cr-v/rav4) are some of the highest percentages to flip/roll over.
Robert
I don't get it.
08-24-2000, 11:34 AM
#27
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,989
>>> Being only 4ft has nothing to do w/ tint. But it has everything to do w/ that person not being able to see down and into the blind spot when changing lanes. But in a wagon, that person would have a much easier time seeing in that exact same spot.
Since I am not 4ft tall, and I never drove a wagon either, so I can't make judgement on what you said. I will take your words for it on a wagon offers better visibility then SUV. But I do wonder how would you know since you aren't 4ft tall either, you should not have idea how 4ft people see things in a vehicle.
>>> As far as room? You want to say a suv w/ the seats up have more room than a wagon? Come on now. But once you take the seat out on the suv, well then wagon just folds down their seat.
See that's the difference between us. I did NOT claim which has more room, cuz I don't say anything I am not sure about or can't prove. That's why I asked you whether you have hard evidence on if wagon has more room.
Now I think some wagon are larger than some SUV, and some SUV are larger than some wagon, it all depends, they both can haul stuff, so it's a pure personal choice whether one likes a wagon or SUV, this is a free country Why does it bother you so much if one picks the SUV?
I personally think SUV looks better than wagon, I would take a X5 over a 540iT, would you take the QX4 over I30 wagon if it exsited??
>>> As far as winter in a RWD. How do all those Europeans in thei RWD BMW w/ limited slip diffentials and traction control get to all those ski areas? BTW I saw almost NO SUVS in either London or Paris.
Your guess is as good as mine. I will guess they are equipped with snow tires in winter. But that's still not the point, European choose not to drive SUV, some American do, so it IS the people, not SUV itself. You can hate the people, don't hate the vehicle
Since I am not 4ft tall, and I never drove a wagon either, so I can't make judgement on what you said. I will take your words for it on a wagon offers better visibility then SUV. But I do wonder how would you know since you aren't 4ft tall either, you should not have idea how 4ft people see things in a vehicle.
>>> As far as room? You want to say a suv w/ the seats up have more room than a wagon? Come on now. But once you take the seat out on the suv, well then wagon just folds down their seat.
See that's the difference between us. I did NOT claim which has more room, cuz I don't say anything I am not sure about or can't prove. That's why I asked you whether you have hard evidence on if wagon has more room.
Now I think some wagon are larger than some SUV, and some SUV are larger than some wagon, it all depends, they both can haul stuff, so it's a pure personal choice whether one likes a wagon or SUV, this is a free country
Why does it bother you so much if one picks the SUV? I personally think SUV looks better than wagon, I would take a X5 over a 540iT, would you take the QX4 over I30 wagon if it exsited??
>>> As far as winter in a RWD. How do all those Europeans in thei RWD BMW w/ limited slip diffentials and traction control get to all those ski areas? BTW I saw almost NO SUVS in either London or Paris.
Your guess is as good as mine. I will guess they are equipped with snow tires in winter. But that's still not the point, European choose not to drive SUV, some American do, so it IS the people, not SUV itself. You can hate the people, don't hate the vehicle
08-24-2000, 11:40 AM
#28
Donating Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,530
Hey Woodear....
Where the hell is my sig graphic I made you?
Originally posted by WoodEar
>>> Being only 4ft has nothing to do w/ tint. But it has everything to do w/ that person not being able to see down and into the blind spot when changing lanes. But in a wagon, that person would have a much easier time seeing in that exact same spot.
Since I am not 4ft tall, and I never drove a wagon either, so I can't make judgement on what you said. I will take your words for it on a wagon offers better visibility then SUV. But I do wonder how would you know since you aren't 4ft tall either, you should not have idea how 4ft people see things in a vehicle.
>>> As far as room? You want to say a suv w/ the seats up have more room than a wagon? Come on now. But once you take the seat out on the suv, well then wagon just folds down their seat.
See that's the difference between us. I did NOT claim which has more room, cuz I don't say anything I am not sure about or can't prove. That's why I asked you whether you have hard evidence on if wagon has more room.
Now I think some wagon are larger than some SUV, and some SUV are larger than some wagon, it all depends, they both can haul stuff, so it's a pure personal choice whether one likes a wagon or SUV, this is a free country Why does it bother you so much if one picks the SUV?
I personally think SUV looks better than wagon, I would take a X5 over a 540iT, would you take the QX4 over I30 wagon if it exsited??
>>> As far as winter in a RWD. How do all those Europeans in thei RWD BMW w/ limited slip diffentials and traction control get to all those ski areas? BTW I saw almost NO SUVS in either London or Paris.
Your guess is as good as mine. I will guess they are equipped with snow tires in winter. But that's still not the point, European choose not to drive SUV, some American do, so it IS the people, not SUV itself. You can hate the people, don't hate the vehicle
>>> Being only 4ft has nothing to do w/ tint. But it has everything to do w/ that person not being able to see down and into the blind spot when changing lanes. But in a wagon, that person would have a much easier time seeing in that exact same spot.
Since I am not 4ft tall, and I never drove a wagon either, so I can't make judgement on what you said. I will take your words for it on a wagon offers better visibility then SUV. But I do wonder how would you know since you aren't 4ft tall either, you should not have idea how 4ft people see things in a vehicle.
>>> As far as room? You want to say a suv w/ the seats up have more room than a wagon? Come on now. But once you take the seat out on the suv, well then wagon just folds down their seat.
See that's the difference between us. I did NOT claim which has more room, cuz I don't say anything I am not sure about or can't prove. That's why I asked you whether you have hard evidence on if wagon has more room.
Now I think some wagon are larger than some SUV, and some SUV are larger than some wagon, it all depends, they both can haul stuff, so it's a pure personal choice whether one likes a wagon or SUV, this is a free country
Why does it bother you so much if one picks the SUV? I personally think SUV looks better than wagon, I would take a X5 over a 540iT, would you take the QX4 over I30 wagon if it exsited??
>>> As far as winter in a RWD. How do all those Europeans in thei RWD BMW w/ limited slip diffentials and traction control get to all those ski areas? BTW I saw almost NO SUVS in either London or Paris.
Your guess is as good as mine. I will guess they are equipped with snow tires in winter. But that's still not the point, European choose not to drive SUV, some American do, so it IS the people, not SUV itself. You can hate the people, don't hate the vehicle
08-24-2000, 12:02 PM
#29
my number 1 peev about damn suv drivers is that they don't know how to drive it.
freakin' a. one a two lane highway, this stupid woman was driving like half way in my lane (me heading straight for her).. i mean. come on.. if you're gonna buy a Suburban or Expedition, freakin' learn the size of your car.
that's not the only time it's happened to me. i've got my side view mirrors whacked, nearly torn off my idiots in explorers who get too close..
the worst is when i see fools take right turns.. almost always, these foos roll over the curb, cuz they take the turn too close..
if they can't drive such a big *** car, then dont buy it...
worst of all, is here in LA.. i mean. what mountains are you gonna haul your Lexus LX400 super luxury SUV up anyway? i mean. damn. i bet they don't even touch dirt... they're loud, big, and ozone killers.
y does CA have such strict emission laws against cars, but not SUVs??? shoot..
freakin' a. one a two lane highway, this stupid woman was driving like half way in my lane (me heading straight for her).. i mean. come on.. if you're gonna buy a Suburban or Expedition, freakin' learn the size of your car.
that's not the only time it's happened to me. i've got my side view mirrors whacked, nearly torn off my idiots in explorers who get too close..
the worst is when i see fools take right turns.. almost always, these foos roll over the curb, cuz they take the turn too close..
if they can't drive such a big *** car, then dont buy it...
worst of all, is here in LA.. i mean. what mountains are you gonna haul your Lexus LX400 super luxury SUV up anyway? i mean. damn. i bet they don't even touch dirt... they're loud, big, and ozone killers.
y does CA have such strict emission laws against cars, but not SUVs??? shoot..
08-24-2000, 12:14 PM
#31
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,989
So afterall it's about the driver not the SUV
Originally posted by Chebosto
my number 1 peev about damn suv drivers is that they don't know how to drive it.
freakin' a. one a two lane highway, this stupid woman was driving like half way in my lane (me heading straight for her).. i mean. come on.. if you're gonna buy a Suburban or Expedition, freakin' learn the size of your car.
that's not the only time it's happened to me. i've got my side view mirrors whacked, nearly torn off my idiots in explorers who get too close..
the worst is when i see fools take right turns.. almost always, these foos roll over the curb, cuz they take the turn too close..
if they can't drive such a big *** car, then dont buy it...
worst of all, is here in LA.. i mean. what mountains are you gonna haul your Lexus LX400 super luxury SUV up anyway? i mean. damn. i bet they don't even touch dirt... they're loud, big, and ozone killers.
y does CA have such strict emission laws against cars, but not SUVs??? shoot..
my number 1 peev about damn suv drivers is that they don't know how to drive it.
freakin' a. one a two lane highway, this stupid woman was driving like half way in my lane (me heading straight for her).. i mean. come on.. if you're gonna buy a Suburban or Expedition, freakin' learn the size of your car.
that's not the only time it's happened to me. i've got my side view mirrors whacked, nearly torn off my idiots in explorers who get too close..
the worst is when i see fools take right turns.. almost always, these foos roll over the curb, cuz they take the turn too close..
if they can't drive such a big *** car, then dont buy it...
worst of all, is here in LA.. i mean. what mountains are you gonna haul your Lexus LX400 super luxury SUV up anyway? i mean. damn. i bet they don't even touch dirt... they're loud, big, and ozone killers.
y does CA have such strict emission laws against cars, but not SUVs??? shoot..
08-24-2000, 02:09 PM
#32
Actually it's the suv. I don't like the 4' 1" woman in the suv that can't see out of it to change lanes but that same woman in a wagon can see much better and thus probably drive better. Therefore I have no problem w/ that particular person. So it must be the suv That's a non-data backed opinion though :P
That's a non-data backed opinion though :P
Originally posted by WoodEar
So afterall it's about the driver not the SUV
So afterall it's about the driver not the SUV
Originally posted by Chebosto
my number 1 peev about damn suv drivers is that they don't know how to drive it.
freakin' a. one a two lane highway, this stupid woman was driving like half way in my lane (me heading straight for her).. i mean. come on.. if you're gonna buy a Suburban or Expedition, freakin' learn the size of your car.
that's not the only time it's happened to me. i've got my side view mirrors whacked, nearly torn off my idiots in explorers who get too close..
the worst is when i see fools take right turns.. almost always, these foos roll over the curb, cuz they take the turn too close..
if they can't drive such a big *** car, then dont buy it...
worst of all, is here in LA.. i mean. what mountains are you gonna haul your Lexus LX400 super luxury SUV up anyway? i mean. damn. i bet they don't even touch dirt... they're loud, big, and ozone killers.
y does CA have such strict emission laws against cars, but not SUVs??? shoot..
my number 1 peev about damn suv drivers is that they don't know how to drive it.
freakin' a. one a two lane highway, this stupid woman was driving like half way in my lane (me heading straight for her).. i mean. come on.. if you're gonna buy a Suburban or Expedition, freakin' learn the size of your car.
that's not the only time it's happened to me. i've got my side view mirrors whacked, nearly torn off my idiots in explorers who get too close..
the worst is when i see fools take right turns.. almost always, these foos roll over the curb, cuz they take the turn too close..
if they can't drive such a big *** car, then dont buy it...
worst of all, is here in LA.. i mean. what mountains are you gonna haul your Lexus LX400 super luxury SUV up anyway? i mean. damn. i bet they don't even touch dirt... they're loud, big, and ozone killers.
y does CA have such strict emission laws against cars, but not SUVs??? shoot..
08-24-2000, 02:40 PM
#33
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,394
All cars suck, SUV's rule. I cannot stand people who hate the vehicles. Like its the vehicles fault that the owners bought them. Don't hate the tool, hate the user..
--Maximamike
1996 Grand Cherokee Orvis.
2 inch life and upgraded shocks.
Yes, it does go offroad.
--Maximamike
1996 Grand Cherokee Orvis.
2 inch life and upgraded shocks.
Yes, it does go offroad.
08-24-2000, 06:17 PM
#34
Originally posted by Maximamike
All cars suck, SUV's rule. I cannot stand people who hate the vehicles. Like its the vehicles fault that the owners bought them. Don't hate the tool, hate the user..
--Maximamike
1996 Grand Cherokee Orvis.
2 inch life and upgraded shocks.
Yes, it does go offroad.
All cars suck, SUV's rule. I cannot stand people who hate the vehicles. Like its the vehicles fault that the owners bought them. Don't hate the tool, hate the user..
--Maximamike
1996 Grand Cherokee Orvis.
2 inch life and upgraded shocks.
Yes, it does go offroad.
LOL
08-24-2000, 06:55 PM
#35
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,989
If that particulart person is 6'1" instead of 4'1", and she drives a SUV and can see perfectly out of it, that shall be ok with you I guess? You have no reason to hate SUV in that case, right?
Then it IS the particular person you have problem with, the freaking problem is she is too short, if she is taller it will all be good.
See, it IS the driver, not the SUV
Then it IS the particular person you have problem with, the freaking problem is she is too short, if she is taller it will all be good.
See, it IS the driver, not the SUV
08-24-2000, 07:08 PM
#36
Sure
Provided that 6'1" women looks around when driving which I doubt she would(hell let's put all suv drivers into that one), knows how the tall vehicle handles in emergency situations(which data show most don't) then yes. But unfortunatley in reality there are more SUVs to hate than to like. But put the 6 fter in the wagon, then all is well.
08-24-2000, 08:17 PM
#37
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,989
We must live in two different world, because where I live, I see all types of cars driven badly, sure there are monster SUV's failed to stay in the lane, but there are also compact cars like a Civic failed to stay in the lane, and sometimes when you see big *** 18 wheeler, they behave surprising well on roads.
So it's really the person behind the wheels, not the car itself.
Otherwise using your theory, I should blame basketball if I don't play well like MJ The ball is too big for my hands and I can't grab with one hand, the basket is too high and I can't dunk, the rims is too small so I miss lots of shots It's never my own fault, right?
So it's really the person behind the wheels, not the car itself.
Otherwise using your theory, I should blame basketball if I don't play well like MJ
The ball is too big for my hands and I can't grab with one hand, the basket is too high and I can't dunk, the rims is too small so I miss lots of shots It's never my own fault, right?
08-24-2000, 08:30 PM
#38
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,014
Or, how about that gun's are inherently dangerous and it's not the owners fault when someone get's killed, it's all because the gun is dangerous. I mean, there are a lot of things we use on a daily basis that can be dangerous. But it all boils down to the fact that they are just tools, and they can be used responsibly or not. Some people drive SUV's that shouldn't be. Some people also drive Accords that shouldn't be. And some people own guns that shouldn't. Blaming the tool is completely ignoring the source of the problem, and won't fix anything...
08-25-2000, 05:25 AM
#40
ikea???
hahaha i've stacked a good sized desk and a coffe table in my maxima.. but ifeel real sorry for my friend in the back seat. she had to sit behind the big ol' box with part of it smashin' her foot the whole 1hr long ride... it all depends on how u stack things. but all rides are tight, MINIvans, suv, trucks, roadsters and of course the sedans. they all got their ups and downs. u can fit a crap loada subs in a van and a suv compared to a normal car. but you can easily find parking on the streets with a normal car. and as far as the "suv is a fashion trend" yes and no.. some people buy it for towing or stuff some people buy it because it's their style.