Well. i finally did it....
05-11-2001, 02:21 PM
#1
i coverted my Place Racing CAI to a Hybrid system with an Stillen intake.
Keeping the upper piece of the CAI, just just slapped on the Stillen intake to the MAF and dumped my lower CAI piping to the closet.
why?
i believe, along with many others here in So Cal that the Stillen (or generic filter with a velocity stack) is much better than the Cold Air Intake system due to several things.
1) the top end is better in the stillen intake (dyno proof) because during high RPM load, the resonance of the air through the piping of the CAI kills off the speed of air into the car, and thus the top end is hit severely after 5k on a CAI.
2) the SI is MUCH MUCH quieter than the CAI, but with the upper piece still on the car, i can still get that nice hissing sound as the air passes thru the intake into the pipe into the throttle body.
as far as readings go on my Techtom MDM100, the air temp readings only slightly differ when strolling around town. the cai, in WOT in 3rd gear, often hits 75 degrees. on a quick romp around town with the SI, i get a reading of 77. yea. 2 degrees isn't that much, but here's the other thing.
i stopped the car and let it sit for a while. normally. the intake temp on the cai only increases 6 degrees and takes only ~5 minutes to cool back down to where it was during driving... but with the stillen intake, it takes slightly longer due to the fact air is being sucked from under the hood...
well. trade offs are certain. but hopefully, i can see better top end with the switch..
--Cheston
Keeping the upper piece of the CAI, just just slapped on the Stillen intake to the MAF and dumped my lower CAI piping to the closet.
why?
i believe, along with many others here in So Cal that the Stillen (or generic filter with a velocity stack) is much better than the Cold Air Intake system due to several things.
1) the top end is better in the stillen intake (dyno proof) because during high RPM load, the resonance of the air through the piping of the CAI kills off the speed of air into the car, and thus the top end is hit severely after 5k on a CAI.
2) the SI is MUCH MUCH quieter than the CAI, but with the upper piece still on the car, i can still get that nice hissing sound as the air passes thru the intake into the pipe into the throttle body.
as far as readings go on my Techtom MDM100, the air temp readings only slightly differ when strolling around town. the cai, in WOT in 3rd gear, often hits 75 degrees. on a quick romp around town with the SI, i get a reading of 77. yea. 2 degrees isn't that much, but here's the other thing.
i stopped the car and let it sit for a while. normally. the intake temp on the cai only increases 6 degrees and takes only ~5 minutes to cool back down to where it was during driving... but with the stillen intake, it takes slightly longer due to the fact air is being sucked from under the hood...
well. trade offs are certain. but hopefully, i can see better top end with the switch..
--Cheston
05-11-2001, 03:07 PM
#4
Donating Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 867
05-11-2001, 03:33 PM
#5
Skimax has a really nice CAI for his SC he made him self.
made outta steel 3 inch piping, and a HUGE racing filter on it, inside the fender wall..
ask him
as far as temp readings. i just swapped it. so more driving needs to be done Phil. i'll get back to you on that.
--Cheston
made outta steel 3 inch piping, and a HUGE racing filter on it, inside the fender wall..
ask him
as far as temp readings. i just swapped it. so more driving needs to be done Phil. i'll get back to you on that.
--Cheston
05-11-2001, 03:34 PM
#6
I figured it out! Your secrets safe with me Phil! BTW I am going to send you a private message so be on the look out.
Cheston you can answer his ?? now, hehe/
05-11-2001, 04:53 PM
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 222
Ches
Hey man thanks for taking the time to test these two products out. The only question I have is what effect does the hot air at idel in traffic have on the motor? In So. Calif I'm sure it's ok, but what about here in vegas where it gets 100-120 on a daily basis during the summer? The temp. under the hood on a 100 plus day I assume would be at least 120+. I hope I can still use this as I didn't really want to chop up my fender well. Also any idea's of how I can get some better air flow in to the compartment? I was gonna take the stock air scope/dam off or modify it to get air to the charger.
Thanks Ches
Robert
Sin City
HOT AS ****
Thanks Ches
Robert
Sin City
HOT AS ****
05-11-2001, 05:09 PM
#8
I have been asking this question for months now.. no one has answered..
when you dyno the CAI vs SI .. do you put a huge fan infont of the car?
because a CAI will not show much gains if Cold Air is not being FORCED into the engine..
when you dyno the CAI vs SI .. do you put a huge fan infont of the car?
because a CAI will not show much gains if Cold Air is not being FORCED into the engine..
05-11-2001, 09:16 PM
#9
Originally posted by SprintMax
I have been asking this question for months now.. no one has answered..
when you dyno the CAI vs SI .. do you put a huge fan infont of the car?
because a CAI will not show much gains if Cold Air is not being FORCED into the engine..
I have been asking this question for months now.. no one has answered..
when you dyno the CAI vs SI .. do you put a huge fan infont of the car?
because a CAI will not show much gains if Cold Air is not being FORCED into the engine..
I was trying to get a test set up to figure this out. Still waiting for Warpspeed to get back to me.
05-11-2001, 11:26 PM
#10
Not DAVEB the parts guy
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,555
I think the true performance differences between the CAI and POP setup are nearly negliable and are figments of peoples imagination. It's not like the POP makes 20hp more. We're talking 1-2hp, maybe. The POP will probably show more power on the dyno simply because the hood up and the air is cool and circulating. Once that hood goes down, things change, especially when the temps rise.
The Contour SVT guys did some interesting runs on the dyno to test what heat does to the motor with a POP, CAI, and stock setup. With the hood up, the POP style setup made the most power. Once the hood was closed, it made less power than the CAI counterpart, but still a little more than the stock airbox (the fan was still blowing at against the front of the car). THEN they let the car sit at an idle for 2 minutes without a fan to simulate a traffic. The POP lost 10fwhp!!!!!!!!!!!! The stock setup lost 3fwhp and the CAI lost 2fwhp.
This proves my next point. On the track, with a good cool down, either the CAI or POP will perform the same. In traffic, the stock setup or CAI will perform much better. My Poorman's setup keeps my power MUCH stronger in the 80-90 degree high humidity weather we've been experincing. Last year when I had my HKS setup, the car was notably slower in the heat.
IMO, a CAI, POP, or Poorman's are so close in performance (when the motor is cool) that it's nearly impossible to guage. Also to be noted is my car made the same power at the same rpm with the Poorman's setup as it did with the POP setup.
Dave
The Contour SVT guys did some interesting runs on the dyno to test what heat does to the motor with a POP, CAI, and stock setup. With the hood up, the POP style setup made the most power. Once the hood was closed, it made less power than the CAI counterpart, but still a little more than the stock airbox (the fan was still blowing at against the front of the car). THEN they let the car sit at an idle for 2 minutes without a fan to simulate a traffic. The POP lost 10fwhp!!!!!!!!!!!! The stock setup lost 3fwhp and the CAI lost 2fwhp.
This proves my next point. On the track, with a good cool down, either the CAI or POP will perform the same. In traffic, the stock setup or CAI will perform much better. My Poorman's setup keeps my power MUCH stronger in the 80-90 degree high humidity weather we've been experincing. Last year when I had my HKS setup, the car was notably slower in the heat.
IMO, a CAI, POP, or Poorman's are so close in performance (when the motor is cool) that it's nearly impossible to guage. Also to be noted is my car made the same power at the same rpm with the Poorman's setup as it did with the POP setup.
Dave
05-12-2001, 04:57 AM
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 939
Originally posted by Chebosto
i coverted my Place Racing CAI to a Hybrid system with an Stillen intake.
Keeping the upper piece of the CAI, just just slapped on the Stillen intake to the MAF and dumped my lower CAI piping to the closet.
why?
i believe, along with many others here in So Cal that the Stillen (or generic filter with a velocity stack) is much better than the Cold Air Intake system due to several things.
1) the top end is better in the stillen intake (dyno proof) because during high RPM load, the resonance of the air through the piping of the CAI kills off the speed of air into the car, and thus the top end is hit severely after 5k on a CAI.
2) the SI is MUCH MUCH quieter than the CAI, but with the upper piece still on the car, i can still get that nice hissing sound as the air passes thru the intake into the pipe into the throttle body.
as far as readings go on my Techtom MDM100, the air temp readings only slightly differ when strolling around town. the cai, in WOT in 3rd gear, often hits 75 degrees. on a quick romp around town with the SI, i get a reading of 77. yea. 2 degrees isn't that much, but here's the other thing.
i stopped the car and let it sit for a while. normally. the intake temp on the cai only increases 6 degrees and takes only ~5 minutes to cool back down to where it was during driving... but with the stillen intake, it takes slightly longer due to the fact air is being sucked from under the hood...
well. trade offs are certain. but hopefully, i can see better top end with the switch..
--Cheston
i coverted my Place Racing CAI to a Hybrid system with an Stillen intake.
Keeping the upper piece of the CAI, just just slapped on the Stillen intake to the MAF and dumped my lower CAI piping to the closet.
why?
i believe, along with many others here in So Cal that the Stillen (or generic filter with a velocity stack) is much better than the Cold Air Intake system due to several things.
1) the top end is better in the stillen intake (dyno proof) because during high RPM load, the resonance of the air through the piping of the CAI kills off the speed of air into the car, and thus the top end is hit severely after 5k on a CAI.
2) the SI is MUCH MUCH quieter than the CAI, but with the upper piece still on the car, i can still get that nice hissing sound as the air passes thru the intake into the pipe into the throttle body.
as far as readings go on my Techtom MDM100, the air temp readings only slightly differ when strolling around town. the cai, in WOT in 3rd gear, often hits 75 degrees. on a quick romp around town with the SI, i get a reading of 77. yea. 2 degrees isn't that much, but here's the other thing.
i stopped the car and let it sit for a while. normally. the intake temp on the cai only increases 6 degrees and takes only ~5 minutes to cool back down to where it was during driving... but with the stillen intake, it takes slightly longer due to the fact air is being sucked from under the hood...
well. trade offs are certain. but hopefully, i can see better top end with the switch..
--Cheston
I did exactly the same thing as you did a few months back. On the dyno, no differences were seen, but on the track, my car ran much slower. With the same 60 ft times, I lost almost 0.3 seconds in the first 1/8th mile and several mph. The low end was dramatically off. In the 1/4, I couldnt even come close to my previous best time with the CAI. In fact, I could barely get to within a few tenths of it! I switched back to the full CAI, and promptly went out and ran my best time and mph ever.
On the dyno you cant see a difference, but on the road the CAI actually works....at least on my car
05-12-2001, 10:51 AM
#13
well. i'm aiming for Top End power. why? the max has googles of low end torque. and at the launch of a drag strip , yeah. it might be cool to jump of the line, but that also equates to wheel spin, and possible hopping. then when u get upto speed in racing (mostly you're keeping the gear in longer and shifting at red or before red,) the cai just sucks for power..
yeah. i miss the wwwWWWOWOOOOOOOOOOOOOO noise in the cai, but hopefully when i get to race nabil again on the freeway it will be more even
(reason for the swap: three 3rd gear pulls onthe freeway versus nabil's beast. each time he walked at 5k and over speeds.. $%!@)
i'm gonna look into doing a dual intake piping.
like having a Y inthere somehow with a solenoid. so that the solenoid kicks in at like 5k RPM and shuts off the CAI piping and opens up directly to the Stillen intake.
u know. dual valve pipes... but its gonna be tricky. i can't do the same as the way the 2k exhaust works... for the intakes i'll need something of a powered mechanically gizmo ..
just to keep things interesting.. someone try my idea.
h hehhehhe
or just get me that leaf blower..
--Cheston
yeah. i miss the wwwWWWOWOOOOOOOOOOOOOO noise in the cai, but hopefully when i get to race nabil again on the freeway it will be more even
(reason for the swap: three 3rd gear pulls onthe freeway versus nabil's beast. each time he walked at 5k and over speeds.. $%!@)
i'm gonna look into doing a dual intake piping.
like having a Y inthere somehow with a solenoid. so that the solenoid kicks in at like 5k RPM and shuts off the CAI piping and opens up directly to the Stillen intake.
u know. dual valve pipes... but its gonna be tricky. i can't do the same as the way the 2k exhaust works... for the intakes i'll need something of a powered mechanically gizmo ..
just to keep things interesting.. someone try my idea.
h hehhehheor just get me that leaf blower..
--Cheston
05-12-2001, 12:04 PM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,807
hahaha
Damn I thought I was crazy for thinking of something like that. It won't be too hard, if you were able to get something like a 3" cutout it would work fine. Or you can have a soleniod activate it at a pre set rpm, or you can just pull the lever . I thought about doing it but since my VG's powerband is at a lower rpm the CAI on my car had mad midrange and toppend torque. Its pretty simple actually get a 3" cutout and have it welded into the CAI. Or do what JWT has done to the Z32's, make a dual pop/SI intake ;0)
. I thought about doing it but since my VG's powerband is at a lower rpm the CAI on my car had mad midrange and toppend torque. Its pretty simple actually get a 3" cutout and have it welded into the CAI. Or do what JWT has done to the Z32's, make a dual pop/SI intake ;0)
Originally posted by Chebosto
i'm gonna look into doing a dual intake piping.
like having a Y inthere somehow with a solenoid. so that the solenoid kicks in at like 5k RPM and shuts off the CAI piping and opens up directly to the Stillen intake.
u know. dual valve pipes... but its gonna be tricky. i can't do the same as the way the 2k exhaust works... for the intakes i'll need something of a powered mechanically gizmo ..
just to keep things interesting.. someone try my idea.h hehhehhe
or just get me that leaf blower..
--Cheston
i'm gonna look into doing a dual intake piping.
like having a Y inthere somehow with a solenoid. so that the solenoid kicks in at like 5k RPM and shuts off the CAI piping and opens up directly to the Stillen intake.
u know. dual valve pipes... but its gonna be tricky. i can't do the same as the way the 2k exhaust works... for the intakes i'll need something of a powered mechanically gizmo ..
just to keep things interesting.. someone try my idea.
h hehhehheor just get me that leaf blower..
--Cheston
05-12-2001, 12:06 PM
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,018
Hey Chebosto...
I think maybe it's time for a trip to the junkyard.:anughty: See if you can pick up a 5th gen intake manifold, and then use the hybrid intake. The head over to UPRD(or wherever you'd go for a dyno) and get your ECU tuned to take advantage of the new manifold.
You could still do the 'y-pipe intake' thing. It sounds like a good idea, but the bypass sounds tough. Having the 'y' branch out to two filters would be interesting, tho. If a Viper can use two filters, why not a Max?
You could still do the 'y-pipe intake' thing. It sounds like a good idea, but the bypass sounds tough. Having the 'y' branch out to two filters would be interesting, tho. If a Viper can use two filters, why not a Max?
05-12-2001, 12:10 PM
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,677
Re: Hey Chebosto...
Originally posted by Black VQ
I think maybe it's time for a trip to the junkyard.:anughty: See if you can pick up a 5th gen intake manifold, and then use the hybrid intake. The head over to UPRD(or wherever you'd go for a dyno) and get your ECU tuned to take advantage of the new manifold.
You could still do the 'y-pipe intake' thing. It sounds like a good idea, but the bypass sounds tough. Having the 'y' branch out to two filters would be interesting, tho. If a Viper can use two filters, why not a Max?
I think maybe it's time for a trip to the junkyard.:anughty: See if you can pick up a 5th gen intake manifold, and then use the hybrid intake. The head over to UPRD(or wherever you'd go for a dyno) and get your ECU tuned to take advantage of the new manifold.
You could still do the 'y-pipe intake' thing. It sounds like a good idea, but the bypass sounds tough. Having the 'y' branch out to two filters would be interesting, tho. If a Viper can use two filters, why not a Max?
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