Very Important "Discovery" re Strut Bars
09-29-2005, 09:55 PM
#1
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Very Important "Discovery" re Strut Bars
The idea of "preloading" a strut tower brace/bar when installing it has been discussed on the Org and the web quite a bit. Some say you should preload the bar to make it either press out or pull in on the strut towers so it functions better, others say you should not preload the bar at all and you should only install the strut bar when the car is on the ground. I was puzzled by the lack of consensus so I searched the web and came across the following advice:
Intrigued, I decided to try it out myself. I'd always been disappointed at how little my FSTB seemed to do (basically nothing) and wondered why some people said it made a huge difference and others said it made none at all. Well, let me tell you, if you install it this way, it makes a very noticeable difference. I tightened my FSTB and my recently purchased RSTB according to the procedures outlined below, and the difference was amazing. The car feels much more solid. You have to feel it to believe it.
The principle is very simple and is exactly the same for FSTB and RSTB: unload the suspension, then tighten the bar. That's all you need to know, but I thought I'd do a detailed write-up to avoid confusion:
____________________________________
FSTB Tightening Procedure:
If you have not installed the FSTB yet, install the two brackets to the strut towers while the car is on the ground. Then proceed to step 1.
1. With the FSTB on the car (either the whole thing or just the two brackets), loosen the three strut tower nuts on each side, as well as all the FSTB nuts/bolts. Loosen the strut tower nuts just a bit (do not remove them) to ensure that the strut assemblies don't fall out when you raise the car.
2. Make sure the parking brake is on. Jack up the car from the front center jack point (on the subframe just aft of the front bumper). The wheels must be completely off the ground so the suspension is unloaded. You can lower it onto jack stands if you like, but that takes extra time and might bend the chassis in an undesirable way. I left my car sitting on the jack itself for the next step.
3. Tighten the strut tower nuts on each side (4th gen spec is 29-40 ft-lbs, I'd do close to 40). Then tighten the pins that fasten the bar to the brackets (mine required a large allen (hex) wrench and a regular wrench or socket). Finally, tighten the two nuts that are actually on the pins attached the bar using a regular wrench. You want them snug against the ends of the bar. For all these nuts, the tighter the better but don't try to use a breaker bar or anything.
4. Lower the car. The bar should feel very solid; you should be able to bounce the car up and down by pushing on the bar. When you do so you should feel no play and there should be no noises coming from the bar or brackets.
____________________________________
I highly recommend a RSTB to complete the chassis stiffening. Ignore whatever you've read about RSTB's not doing much in a Maxima; it does as much as a FSTB but in the rear. Paradox sells a lightweight billet aluminum RSTB, which is what I have, but you have to grind down a little bit of each bracket to get it to fit (at least the 4th gen bar). It's easy if you know someone with a grinder, and otherwise the product is excellent. They just finished their sale and it costs $50 now but I bet they'd do a group deal for around $40 if there was enough interest.
If you have a 5th gen, your chassis is already quite stiff. The 4th gen chassis is pretty flexy, and my understanding is that much of the extra 150 lbs or so that 5th gens weigh is from chassis stiffening structure. Still, I would highly recommend you try this, at least on your FSTB. The 5th gen has a bunch of extra bracing near the rear strut towers so a RSTB may not be worth it to you.
____________________________________
RSTB* Tightening Procedure (applies to 4th and 5th gens only):
If you have not installed the RSTB yet, install the two brackets to the strut towers while the car is on the ground. Then proceed to step 1.
1. With the RSTB on the car (either the whole thing or just the two brackets), loosen the two strut tower nuts on each side, as well as all the RSTB nuts/bolts. Just loosen the strut tower nuts a bit (do not remove them) to ensure that the strut assemblies don't fall out when you raise the car.
2. Make sure the car is in gear. Jack up the car from the center of the rear beam axle. There is a little hole in the beam that indicates the center point. Place jack stands on the rear side jack points (little notches under the rear doors) and lower the car. The wheels must be completely off the ground and the beam must hang free so the suspension is unloaded.
3. Tighten the strut tower nuts on each side (4th gen spec is 12-14 ft-lbs, I'd do a little more). Then tighten the pins that fasten the bar to the brackets (mine required a large allen (hex) wrench and a regular wrench or socket). Finally, tighten the two nuts that are actually on the pins attached the bar using a regular wrench. You want them snug against the ends of the bar. For all these nuts, the tighter the better but don't try to use a breaker bar or anything.
4. Jack up the beam again, remove the jack stands, and lower the car. The bar should feel very solid; you should be able to bounce the car up and down by pushing on the bar. You should feel no play and there should be no noises coming from the bar or brackets.
* An RSTB is completely different from a rear sway bar (RSB). A RSB goes under the car; a RSTB goes in the trunk.
____________________________________
It seems so silly that millions of people with strut bars don't have them adjusted properly. I keep thinking that it must be my imagination, but every time I drive my car now, I think, this is not my imagination. The chassis is considerably stiffer. The suspension is handling more of the bumps now and transmitting less to the car. The Max rides like it should now.
So try this, go for a drive, and report back here whether you notice the car feeling any more solid. Driveways, bumps, and turns are where you'll notice a difference; in other words, all the time!
Disclaimer: I'm not responsible for anything you do.
A very common error when installing tower bars, It is always recommended to raise the vehicle when installing so that the load of the shock uppermounts on the shock towers is relieved and balanced out. When raised, and the tower bar is placed onto the vehicle, the preload can be adjusted and set. After it is bolted on and the car is lowered, each shock tower will have equal load and will prevent independent movements of each shock. This will provide an extremely noticeable difference after installing. If a tower bar is installed on a car that is not raised, great benefits will be missed.
The principle is very simple and is exactly the same for FSTB and RSTB: unload the suspension, then tighten the bar. That's all you need to know, but I thought I'd do a detailed write-up to avoid confusion:
____________________________________
FSTB Tightening Procedure:
If you have not installed the FSTB yet, install the two brackets to the strut towers while the car is on the ground. Then proceed to step 1.
1. With the FSTB on the car (either the whole thing or just the two brackets), loosen the three strut tower nuts on each side, as well as all the FSTB nuts/bolts. Loosen the strut tower nuts just a bit (do not remove them) to ensure that the strut assemblies don't fall out when you raise the car.
2. Make sure the parking brake is on. Jack up the car from the front center jack point (on the subframe just aft of the front bumper). The wheels must be completely off the ground so the suspension is unloaded. You can lower it onto jack stands if you like, but that takes extra time and might bend the chassis in an undesirable way. I left my car sitting on the jack itself for the next step.
3. Tighten the strut tower nuts on each side (4th gen spec is 29-40 ft-lbs, I'd do close to 40). Then tighten the pins that fasten the bar to the brackets (mine required a large allen (hex) wrench and a regular wrench or socket). Finally, tighten the two nuts that are actually on the pins attached the bar using a regular wrench. You want them snug against the ends of the bar. For all these nuts, the tighter the better but don't try to use a breaker bar or anything.
4. Lower the car. The bar should feel very solid; you should be able to bounce the car up and down by pushing on the bar. When you do so you should feel no play and there should be no noises coming from the bar or brackets.
____________________________________
I highly recommend a RSTB to complete the chassis stiffening. Ignore whatever you've read about RSTB's not doing much in a Maxima; it does as much as a FSTB but in the rear. Paradox sells a lightweight billet aluminum RSTB, which is what I have, but you have to grind down a little bit of each bracket to get it to fit (at least the 4th gen bar). It's easy if you know someone with a grinder, and otherwise the product is excellent. They just finished their sale and it costs $50 now but I bet they'd do a group deal for around $40 if there was enough interest.
If you have a 5th gen, your chassis is already quite stiff. The 4th gen chassis is pretty flexy, and my understanding is that much of the extra 150 lbs or so that 5th gens weigh is from chassis stiffening structure. Still, I would highly recommend you try this, at least on your FSTB. The 5th gen has a bunch of extra bracing near the rear strut towers so a RSTB may not be worth it to you.
____________________________________
RSTB* Tightening Procedure (applies to 4th and 5th gens only):
If you have not installed the RSTB yet, install the two brackets to the strut towers while the car is on the ground. Then proceed to step 1.
1. With the RSTB on the car (either the whole thing or just the two brackets), loosen the two strut tower nuts on each side, as well as all the RSTB nuts/bolts. Just loosen the strut tower nuts a bit (do not remove them) to ensure that the strut assemblies don't fall out when you raise the car.
2. Make sure the car is in gear. Jack up the car from the center of the rear beam axle. There is a little hole in the beam that indicates the center point. Place jack stands on the rear side jack points (little notches under the rear doors) and lower the car. The wheels must be completely off the ground and the beam must hang free so the suspension is unloaded.
3. Tighten the strut tower nuts on each side (4th gen spec is 12-14 ft-lbs, I'd do a little more). Then tighten the pins that fasten the bar to the brackets (mine required a large allen (hex) wrench and a regular wrench or socket). Finally, tighten the two nuts that are actually on the pins attached the bar using a regular wrench. You want them snug against the ends of the bar. For all these nuts, the tighter the better but don't try to use a breaker bar or anything.
4. Jack up the beam again, remove the jack stands, and lower the car. The bar should feel very solid; you should be able to bounce the car up and down by pushing on the bar. You should feel no play and there should be no noises coming from the bar or brackets.
* An RSTB is completely different from a rear sway bar (RSB). A RSB goes under the car; a RSTB goes in the trunk.
____________________________________
It seems so silly that millions of people with strut bars don't have them adjusted properly. I keep thinking that it must be my imagination, but every time I drive my car now, I think, this is not my imagination. The chassis is considerably stiffer. The suspension is handling more of the bumps now and transmitting less to the car. The Max rides like it should now.
So try this, go for a drive, and report back here whether you notice the car feeling any more solid. Driveways, bumps, and turns are where you'll notice a difference; in other words, all the time!
Disclaimer: I'm not responsible for anything you do.
09-29-2005, 11:39 PM
#4
Wow, right on time, my FSTB just got shipped!
Seems to make sense and should indeed work, but here is a look at it from totally different perspective:
All suspensions in modern cars are designed is such a way that the wheels have more of a positive camber when the car is on the ground than when the car is lifted(and we all know that positive camber contributes to cornering characteristics). What FSTB does, it makes the body more rigid, so an IDEAL bar will literally lock everything in position it was while the bar was being installed. If the car is not lifted at that point the car will have more of a positive camber which should contribute to better cornering. It is even possible that the car handles better at one setup but corners (capable of higher g-forces) better with another setup.
This is just the hypothesis and not my opinion (this was my opinion before I saw this thread lol) It could be WRONG, so feel free to discuss this idea. What could be wrong in particular is what actually changes the camber when the car is lifted; whether it is just the springs which decompress or there is something more to it like body flex.
VQuick, do you have a link to the place you found this quote?
Edition: People, I was a bit confused when I wrote that, so everywhere it says positive I mean negative and vice versa… lol
Seems to make sense and should indeed work, but here is a look at it from totally different perspective:
All suspensions in modern cars are designed is such a way that the wheels have more of a positive camber when the car is on the ground than when the car is lifted(and we all know that positive camber contributes to cornering characteristics). What FSTB does, it makes the body more rigid, so an IDEAL bar will literally lock everything in position it was while the bar was being installed. If the car is not lifted at that point the car will have more of a positive camber which should contribute to better cornering. It is even possible that the car handles better at one setup but corners (capable of higher g-forces) better with another setup.
This is just the hypothesis and not my opinion (this was my opinion before I saw this thread lol) It could be WRONG, so feel free to discuss this idea. What could be wrong in particular is what actually changes the camber when the car is lifted; whether it is just the springs which decompress or there is something more to it like body flex.
VQuick, do you have a link to the place you found this quote?
Edition: People, I was a bit confused when I wrote that, so everywhere it says positive I mean negative and vice versa… lol
09-30-2005, 04:36 AM
#6
Donating Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 451
Think lateral as well ....
You are 100% correct VQuick .. well done...
Just as a thought I added Lateral tension to mine as well . Mind not out of any bright thought on my part but because the US Maxima mounting brackets, are 10 degrees different to ours ... It is like having a compression bow effect.
Works well however , feels tight as a drum all round....
Just as a thought I added Lateral tension to mine as well . Mind not out of any bright thought on my part but because the US Maxima mounting brackets, are 10 degrees different to ours ... It is like having a compression bow effect.
Works well however , feels tight as a drum all round....
09-30-2005, 04:47 AM
#7
Member who somehow became The President of The SE-L Club
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Plecebo effect. All the bar does is stabalize the towers. There is no need for a load to be on it. Use some common sense here guys. There is a web site that measured the forces the bar actually sees and believe it or not, it sees more pulling apart forces then it does pushing inward. So the loading theory is completely false. Aside from that, your alignment is set when the car is loaded on the ground. Unloading it alters the alignment slightly by allowing the towers to unload. Now you bracing them while the car is in it's unnatural state as well. If anything, the bar should be installed with the car on the alignment rack in a neutral position, then the alignment should be set. Thats how you stabalize the car's tracking as precisely as possible.
I call
on that bracing theory, it makes no sense from a technical point.
I call
on that bracing theory, it makes no sense from a technical point.
09-30-2005, 08:22 AM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 104
So brace it, then get an alignment, lol. Quit 8itching : ) This seems plausible to me. I noticed a difference before doing it this way (slight preload), so doing it this way may be that much better. I also have a lifetime alignment on my car for reasons like this. What does not seems plausible is the towers moving apart most of the time as you said... Your suspension compresses, wheels into the wheel well. Not the other way around. However, given that with additional support, ie brace, there will be less movement in EITHER direction, you seem to be wrong twice, lol.
09-30-2005, 08:24 AM
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 104
...btw, thanks for the post. i know there are people who like to bash anything that doesn't make sense to them but you just have to ignore it or say it in a way that makes sense to them. good job. "discoveries" like this make what we have a better car.
09-30-2005, 08:33 AM
#11
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Originally Posted by njmaxseltd
Plecebo effect. All the bar does is stabalize the towers. There is no need for a load to be on it. Use some common sense here guys. There is a web site that measured the forces the bar actually sees and believe it or not, it sees more pulling apart forces then it does pushing inward. So the loading theory is completely false. Aside from that, your alignment is set when the car is loaded on the ground. Unloading it alters the alignment slightly by allowing the towers to unload. Now you bracing them while the car is in it's unnatural state as well. If anything, the bar should be installed with the car on the alignment rack in a neutral position, then the alignment should be set. Thats how you stabalize the car's tracking as precisely as possible.
I call on that bracing theory, it makes no sense from a technical point.
I call
on that bracing theory, it makes no sense from a technical point.This takes all of 20 minutes to do, so I'd highly encourage you to try it on your FSTB before you start arguing theory.
I will add that my LTB (lower tie bar, made by Matt Blehm, who I hope adds his thoughts to this thread) is not on my car right now since I'm in the process of replacing my control arm bushings. Even with the LTB and the FSTB installed "normally", my front end did not feel half as solid as it does now with just the FSTB.
09-30-2005, 08:44 AM
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 104
Thinking more about this... there will be just as many forces to expand the towers (cause/effect), but the initial impact you feel when the car absorbs a bump contributes more feeling to the driver than the feeling of the car when the towers expand. There will be less movement in both directions though ideally which can only be good.
09-30-2005, 08:50 AM
#13
I assume the reason why you jack up the car is to unload the suspension/chassis. But think about it. You will be forcing the chassis to stay in it's unloaded position. All your alignment settings will be off as stated.
This idea might actually work to "stiffen" the chassis, but IMHO it forces it into an unnatural state.
As you know, the WSP SFCs have to be installed with the car loaded. But you could install them unloaded also. ie.. as your STB example is. But does anyone think this is a good idea? If you jack up the car in the middle, you all know the whole chassis flexes and you can't even close your door right. Would you want your chassis to be permanently in this position? Probably not.
Who wrote this article anyway?
This idea might actually work to "stiffen" the chassis, but IMHO it forces it into an unnatural state.
As you know, the WSP SFCs have to be installed with the car loaded. But you could install them unloaded also. ie.. as your STB example is. But does anyone think this is a good idea? If you jack up the car in the middle, you all know the whole chassis flexes and you can't even close your door right. Would you want your chassis to be permanently in this position? Probably not.
Who wrote this article anyway?
09-30-2005, 09:55 AM
#16
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Originally Posted by Jeff92se
I assume the reason why you jack up the car is to unload the suspension/chassis. But think about it. You will be forcing the chassis to stay in it's unloaded position. All your alignment settings will be off as stated.
This idea might actually work to "stiffen" the chassis, but IMHO it forces it into an unnatural state.
As you know, the WSP SFCs have to be installed with the car loaded. But you could install them unloaded also. ie.. as your STB example is. But does anyone think this is a good idea? If you jack up the car in the middle, you all know the whole chassis flexes and you can't even close your door right. Would you want your chassis to be permanently in this position? Probably not.
Who wrote this article anyway?
This idea might actually work to "stiffen" the chassis, but IMHO it forces it into an unnatural state.
As you know, the WSP SFCs have to be installed with the car loaded. But you could install them unloaded also. ie.. as your STB example is. But does anyone think this is a good idea? If you jack up the car in the middle, you all know the whole chassis flexes and you can't even close your door right. Would you want your chassis to be permanently in this position? Probably not.
Who wrote this article anyway?
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
I assume the reason why you jack up the car is to unload the suspension/chassis. But think about it. You will be forcing the chassis to stay in it's unloaded position. All your alignment settings will be off as stated.
This idea might actually work to "stiffen" the chassis, but IMHO it forces it into an unnatural state.
As you know, the WSP SFCs have to be installed with the car loaded. But you could install them unloaded also. ie.. as your STB example is. But does anyone think this is a good idea? If you jack up the car in the middle, you all know the whole chassis flexes and you can't even close your door right. Would you want your chassis to be permanently in this position? Probably not.
Who wrote this article anyway?
This idea might actually work to "stiffen" the chassis, but IMHO it forces it into an unnatural state.
As you know, the WSP SFCs have to be installed with the car loaded. But you could install them unloaded also. ie.. as your STB example is. But does anyone think this is a good idea? If you jack up the car in the middle, you all know the whole chassis flexes and you can't even close your door right. Would you want your chassis to be permanently in this position? Probably not.
Who wrote this article anyway?
You claim that "forcing the chassis to stay in its unloaded position" is bad. The chassis ideally is perfectly stiff. The only part of the car that is supposed to move with loads is the suspension. Hence, bracing the chassis while it's unloaded is ideal. Yes, while the car is jacked up there is some load on the chassis but most of the flex is longitudinal. STBs are lateral.
Worst case, if my alignment is off, I will get the car aligned with the STBs on. My car feels so much better now there's no way I would go back.
09-30-2005, 10:01 AM
#17
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The quote I posted was from the Tanabe website.
http://www.tanabe-usa.com/strutbars/default.asp
Here is an excellent write-up on strut-bar theory:
http://e30m3performance.com/myths/St...bar_theory.htm
http://www.tanabe-usa.com/strutbars/default.asp
Here is an excellent write-up on strut-bar theory:
http://e30m3performance.com/myths/St...bar_theory.htm
09-30-2005, 10:06 AM
#18
Why is it moot? It's the same theory. Why not install the SFCs with the car just jacked up in the front??
If the chassis was "perfectly" stiff, there would be no need for these devices.
My point is, if you jack up the car, you are loading the chassis. But in the opposite way from it's intended location.
If the chassis was "perfectly" stiff, there would be no need for these devices.
My point is, if you jack up the car, you are loading the chassis. But in the opposite way from it's intended location.
Originally Posted by VQuick
The SFCs run lengthwise over most of the chassis so using that as a counterexample is kind of moot.
You claim that "forcing the chassis to stay in its unloaded position" is bad. The chassis ideally is perfectly stiff. The only part of the car that is supposed to move with loads is the suspension. Hence, bracing the chassis while it's unloaded is ideal. Yes, while the car is jacked up there is some load on the chassis but most of the flex is longitudinal. STBs are lateral.
Worst case, if my alignment is off, I will get the car aligned with the STBs on. My car feels so much better now there's no way I would go back.
You claim that "forcing the chassis to stay in its unloaded position" is bad. The chassis ideally is perfectly stiff. The only part of the car that is supposed to move with loads is the suspension. Hence, bracing the chassis while it's unloaded is ideal. Yes, while the car is jacked up there is some load on the chassis but most of the flex is longitudinal. STBs are lateral.
Worst case, if my alignment is off, I will get the car aligned with the STBs on. My car feels so much better now there's no way I would go back.
09-30-2005, 10:14 AM
#19
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Originally Posted by Jeff92se
If the chassis was "perfectly" stiff, there would be no need for these devices.
My point is, if you jack up the car, you are loading the chassis. But in the opposite way from it's intended location.
I've been thinking about the theory involved and there are so many variables (read the M3 article I just posted) that I can't come to any conclusions or definitively counter your points, but my experience has been that doing this made a tremendous difference on my particular car. This is why I'm very interested in having others try it out to see if it's just a peculiarity of my car or if it's more universal, in which case it's very useful information to the community, whether or not we can satisfactorily come up with a theoretical explanation.
09-30-2005, 10:28 AM
#20
Originally Posted by deezo
I agree with Jeff and Tom.
Car should be level on the ground, otherwise you are introducing an unatural loading force on the chassis & suspension.
09-30-2005, 12:40 PM
#26
Here is my theory from way out in left field.
When the suspension is unloaded, the people that say they felt a 'huge' change in handling probably introduced a change in camber because of small movements in the 3 strut tower bolts.
When the suspension is unloaded, the people that say they felt a 'huge' change in handling probably introduced a change in camber because of small movements in the 3 strut tower bolts.
09-30-2005, 01:29 PM
#27
Originally Posted by Lordrandall
Here is my theory from way out in left field.
When the suspension is unloaded, the people that say they felt a 'huge' change in handling probably introduced a change in camber because of small movements in the 3 strut tower bolts.
When the suspension is unloaded, the people that say they felt a 'huge' change in handling probably introduced a change in camber because of small movements in the 3 strut tower bolts.
09-30-2005, 02:07 PM
#28
Originally Posted by VQuick
Tom, I respect you as one of the most knowledgeable people on the Org, but don't knock this until you've tried it. This is not a placebo effect. Furthermore, installing a STB this way does not put any preload or unusual forces on the chassis or the suspension. Maybe I should have made more clear in my instructions that when you install and tighten the bar with the car off the ground, you should not put any "preload" or try to make the bar press in or out on the strut tower. Simply tighten the bar with suspension unloaded and the chassis unstressed. I believe this helps reinforce the whole body of the car and reinforces the strut towers in their "relaxed" position. If you just add the bar on top of an already loaded car, the chassis/body where it contacts the suspension is already flexed so you're not going to stop much of that flex when driving.
This takes all of 20 minutes to do, so I'd highly encourage you to try it on your FSTB before you start arguing theory.
I will add that my LTB (lower tie bar, made by Matt Blehm, who I hope adds his thoughts to this thread) is not on my car right now since I'm in the process of replacing my control arm bushings. Even with the LTB and the FSTB installed "normally", my front end did not feel half as solid as it does now with just the FSTB.
This takes all of 20 minutes to do, so I'd highly encourage you to try it on your FSTB before you start arguing theory.
I will add that my LTB (lower tie bar, made by Matt Blehm, who I hope adds his thoughts to this thread) is not on my car right now since I'm in the process of replacing my control arm bushings. Even with the LTB and the FSTB installed "normally", my front end did not feel half as solid as it does now with just the FSTB.
09-30-2005, 02:11 PM
#29
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Originally Posted by Lordrandall
Here is my theory from way out in left field.
When the suspension is unloaded, the people that say they felt a 'huge' change in handling probably introduced a change in camber because of small movements in the 3 strut tower bolts.
When the suspension is unloaded, the people that say they felt a 'huge' change in handling probably introduced a change in camber because of small movements in the 3 strut tower bolts.
09-30-2005, 02:38 PM
#30
Member who somehow became The President of The SE-L Club
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Originally Posted by VQuick
when you install and tighten the bar with the car off the ground, you should not put any "preload" or try to make the bar press in or out on the strut tower. Simply tighten the bar with suspension unloaded and the chassis unstressed. I believe this helps reinforce the whole body of the car and reinforces the strut towers in their "relaxed" position. If you just add the bar on top of an already loaded car, the chassis/body where it contacts the suspension is already flexed so you're not going to stop much of that flex when driving.
09-30-2005, 06:07 PM
#32
Originally Posted by Maximus_95
well it worked for you, so i guess i will give it a try, doesnt hurt.
It is possible that the car feels better when it’s not driven hard, but throw it in some tight corners and it might turn out to be very unpredictable. It is also possible that it will deform the body or even if nothing like this happens you might get uneven thread wear. Or everything might be just fine and even better.
09-30-2005, 06:48 PM
#34
Originally Posted by mtrai760
Wow SCCA champs, you guys are reading way too much into this FSTB install thing. How many here actually drive there Maxima at 9/10th's of the cars limit? 
I agree that it’s not the right thing to do… but I do (sometimes) lol
Besides, you might be forced to do that in an emergency.
I never auto-xed but I went out to an empty open stadium with my own cones a few times, and I attended two events where they give you their car.
BTW:What’s the point of getting all those mods many of us have if you’re not ganna be using them?
09-30-2005, 07:12 PM
#35
Originally Posted by mtrai760
Wow SCCA champs, you guys are reading way too much into this FSTB install thing. How many here actually drive there Maxima at 9/10th's of the cars limit?
Guys... It's just a strut bar....The worst thing that can happen is your tires may wear a little more on the outside....Drive it around for a while then bring the thread out of moth ***** for a folllow up report.....
09-30-2005, 07:20 PM
#36
Originally Posted by mtrai760
Wow SCCA champs, you guys are reading way too much into this FSTB install thing. How many here actually drive there Maxima at 9/10th's of the cars limit?
ok..well the sig is a photoshop (well, some of the smoke is real), but I do autocross the maxima to the limits, far enough to induce 4-wheel slides occasionally
09-30-2005, 11:29 PM
#39
Originally Posted by MrGone
words cannot express how badly I want some of the people in this thread to weld in subframes while the front end of the car is on jack stands 
on this.
10-01-2005, 12:11 AM
#40
But I agree that this is not the best way to install a FSTB. I installed mine while it on the ground first just bolting in place, and then with a little preload. Definitely felt better with load.
I also think this seems unatural because wouldn't it cause you to loose camber? I may try it, but if it felt the same, I wouldn't stick with it.
Tell me more!?!? BMW: Ultimate Driving Experience, was it?
I also think this seems unatural because wouldn't it cause you to loose camber? I may try it, but if it felt the same, I wouldn't stick with it.
Originally Posted by DrKlop
and I attended two events where they give you their car.