AntGVR4

[Soapbox time]

First off let me say I love my car for what it is.
Now
I've noticed there is a HUGE difference in the increased performanced factor when modding a max depending on the tranny. It seems at though stock for stock a 5spd will run about .4-.6 second faster in the 1/4 mile. And modding a 5spd it seems as though the mods on a 5spd extract exponentially better performance then on a auto max. It seems as though it just takes too much work to get an Auto to keep up with 5spds.
Truth be told i hit the track this weekend and was not impressed with my car. True i still spanked all the Integra's there and all those pesky Honduhs but i'm sick of comparing my car.

A lot of the auto guys have full exhaust, intake and maybe even VB and still find it difficult to get into the HIGH 14's... most will be running 15.2's to 15.4's
whereas a 5spd with those mods will run 14.5-14.7 ???
even with an S/C or NOS it is rare to see good results...
There are some out there that are fast i'm not sayin everyone but MOST auto trannies just don't perform
my point is nissan Auto trannies Suck @ss
i know now all auto trannies are this bad.. some in fact perform just as good as their manual counterparts... take the LT1 camaro/firebird....The new TLtypeS

i need an auto car now cuz i sit in traffic for long periods of time
But when i do buy another car it WILL be manual

[Ant trips and falls off soapbox as he is bombarded by tomatoes thrown by the automagic owners]

Ant

FloMax

I was in the same place as you. Last Maxima was an Auto. I decided that the #1 option that my new car would have to have was the 5 spd transmission. I can certainly appreciate having am automatic tranny if you live in a city with lots of traffic, but otherwise, the 5spd is truly easier to make fast.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

I'm glad to see that you feel the power of the manual tranny, but those comparisons you made were not quite fair. You see, the Camaro firebird auto tranny isn't good because of the tranny, more becuase it has an engine that generates so much torque everywhere on the rev band that it overcomes the limitations of the auto box compared to the manual.

As for the Acura TL, it has a new 5 speed auto tranny. To be fair, that should be compared to the new 6 speed manual trannys that are out there, like the one that the new max will get.

DW

JJW95SC

Um, I thought this all went without saying. A manual tranny is more efficient at what it does than an auto no matter what car you are talking about. When you use a liquid to transfer power, as opposed to a solid, there is going to be a loss of power. Manuals are also cheaper to fix when they fail, as I've found out recently.

People buy cars based on their needs. For folks who can afford to own 2, 3, or more cars, they can choose one in particular to be a performance beast...this car will most likely be a 5spd. For the rest of the shmoes like me, my ONLY car has to perform a number of tasks.

My point is: don't be disappointed in your car if it is not the fastest in the state. When I was your age (now I'm sounding old), I couldn't have dreamed of affording a car as nice as yours (I saw it at the Autogear meet). Your car does alot of things well, and those are the reasons why you bought it. So enjoy dangit!

Jim

Cumalot

iTrader: (8)

Yeah, I know how you feel. I always wish that my car was a 5spd. instead of an automagic. A 5spd. or 6spd. manual tranny will be better performance wise for any car, not just our Maxima. We don't get too much traffic here in New Orleans, so I wish that I did have a 5spd. Oh well, what can you do? I don't exactly have the money to go out and bought a new 5spd. Maxima or even a used 5spd. Maxima. Not much we auto guys can do. We can upgrade our vb, torque converter with high stall, but it's still no 5spd. manual. I know in the past I would get upset when some 5spd. guy go off saying how much a 5spd. can kill an auto....how much an auto suck, blah...blah...blah. I hate to admit it, but it's true. However, some of them look like this is their first 5spd. car and would get so excited now they drive 5spd. instead of an auto. Of course, the 5spd. is better than an auto in performance. It's quite obvious, no need to point that out you geniuses. My next car WILL be a 5spd. manual too. That's for sure, I don't care if my gf/wife, sister/family members can't drive it. The heck with them!

1MAX2NV

iTrader: (5)

One thing with auto is that we will never miss a shift or down shifting to a wrong gear. We have less traction problems. One mess up downshift you are looking at some valves and pistons. IMHO, if you have an auto, forget regular bolt ons. Jump right to a SC or Nitrous. or do all show and no go. Few TV screens and a kick azz system.

deezo

iTrader: (3)

Isn't the real deal with the Manual vs. Auto the gear ratio? I think the autos are the best I have ever driven but shouldn't be used for racing anyway.

dmontzsta

iTrader: (8)

The biggest mod for an auto is a Torque converter install one and it will take off just like if you were to power brake your auto now.Autos do suck but you can make them fast.Blu Max has a 3rd gen auto with just a CAI and advanced timing and he is running 15.4

Dave B

It's the lack of torque. The auto doesn't put down the same amount of torque to the wheels nor does it have the gearing (torque multiplication) like the 5 speed. A high stall converter will give the auto more of an ability to launch off the line, but it's still no 5 speed (ie the 5 speed can launch at whatever rpm). There are a few auto running in the lower 15s, but in a topend race, the auto gets walked hard by a 5 speed with the same mods. An auto might be running 15.3@89 where as the 5 speed is running a 15.3@93mph. It's evident that the 5 speed is making more power and accelerating harder up top. I've driven a few auto Maximas and my wife has a auto Altima. The autos aren't bad, but Nissan is nowhere near GM with thier trannies. The 4L60E (electronic version of the 700R4) used in the GM pickups/SUVs, F-Bodies, and the Vette is a incredible setup. The 1st gear is a very deep 3.06:1 and this is why these cars leap off the line. Most other autos use a 2.5-2.6 1st gear. I had a Z28 with the 4L60E and made the car a complete beast. Under part throttle, the tranny was smooth and the shifts could hardily be felt (no driveline slop). Under WOT, the car would bang the gears really hard and lay nice patches of rubber in 2nd. Downshifts were instantanous and the car never questioned your right foot....EVER. Plus these trannies can take a lot of abuse (440ft/lbs of torque). If Nissan would just source out the 4T65E (used in the GTP), auto Maximas would be MUCH quicker. GM autos are also EXTREMELY efficent. An auto F-Body looses about 18% power vs the 6 speeds 15%.


Dave

AznWontonboy

how dangerous is nos to have in ur trunk in day by day driving? im just worried about the danger..

1MAX2NV

iTrader: (5)

There is a safty valve which vents out the gas if the bottle ever reach extreme pressure. ie. Car crash or high temp.

dmontzsta

iTrader: (8)

One good side to having an auto.Is you dont have to worry about shifting.But then again I love banging my dads 5 speed chevy truck into 2nd.Man those chevy trucks with a 350 vortech and a 5 speed have alot of pull in 1st and 2nd.

OgreDave

iTrader: (1)

Thats a big jump...

Hey, it could be worse.. could have a weak engine and you wouldnt have to worry about "tranny problems"

(actually, my gf's LS feels like one big tranny problem.. but we dont need to talk about that..)

AznWontonboy

wut about thos epictures i see of cars blown half off?

Sonic

That happens as often as a gas tank explodes. NOS is relatively safe, that is if it is installed correctly and used correctly. And Ant stop the auto hating. This is my first auto car, and too tell you the truth, I like it, except for the refusal to get out of third after a California stop.

97MaxGurl

iTrader: (17)

Not even a y-pipe Tony?

bigtexan7

autos probably respond better to mods than do 5spds. true, stock to stock(95) quarter mile times are 15.2 to 16.1 manual to auto. when I first got my auto, it ran a 16.1, now it runs a 15.1. I don't even have all the mods, I'm missing underdrive pulley, torque converter and cat-back exhaust and I've already dropped 1 full second. Give a 5spd driver all the available n/a mods and he'll never see a 14.2. So I'd say the autos respond better to mods, but it's true that n/a they will never have the potential of a 5spd.

AntGVR4

got some good responses...

JJW95SC: i'm very thankful for my car.. i'm also lucky to have gotten great internships so i can afford to pay for it. i'm not dissappointed about being fast... if i wanted fast i could've bought a DSM and modded it to be running 12's now.. this is just my take

1MAX2NV: my max got high miles and putting either S/C or NOS on would make my car go BOOM...besides for the price of an S/C w/ install approx 3800+500 = 4300 .. for 4300 i can buy a 1st Gen DSM and with 500 in mods be running mid 13's all day ...

DaveB: thank you..this is my point the performance GM trannies are great ..
This is why the Auto GTP will be right next to an auto S/C max ...

bigtexan7: i guess you have one of those special auto maxima s then .. but you said auto react better to mods.. i highly doubt this ...

....................
I dunno but i need sumtin to go fast with that is cheap
Bike or DSM ? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Ant

CandiMan

iTrader: (1)

They have 222HP at crank, but only deliver just over 170HP at the wheels with all the usuall intake and exhaust mods. Depending on who's dyno graph you're reading that's a lost of 40-50HP. Doesn't look so good, but gotta live with it

Y2KevSE

iTrader: (13)

170? Hmmmmmm......
http://images.cardomain.com/installs...81_98_full.jpg

Sprint

iTrader: (10)

you can't compare a TL-S or a CL-S to a 4th Gen Maxima.. those car have 260 hp stock to start with.. you my friend have 190 hp.. thats a big difference.. and the fact that a maxima with bolt on's will run .2 - .3 secs behind a TL-S is a great accomplishment..

AntGVR4

so you have 180 ?
and you have mods done ... so figure stock your 222 + 18hp in mods (very conservative i'm sure you got more)
that equals a MINIMUM of 25% loss of power to the wheels
THAT SUX !!!

ok so Acura trannies do suck..forget wut i said about them

Ant

Y2KevSE

iTrader: (13)

My Service Engine light was on, AC was on, and radio was on when Stillen did the dyno. I could've gotten more, but

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

Today's computer controlled cars,like our Maximas, have function in the ECU that, when you floor it, the AC is off, even if its on. That's cause the ECU knows you want every damn ounce of power out of your engine, so it temporarily dis-ables the clutch for the AC. So, if your were flooring it, your AC wasn't on.

DW

CandiMan

iTrader: (1)

Had my numbers backward, how you know I was refering to you lol. What route is Nissan planning for the new Max will it still be advertise as a 4DSC or a 4DLC? Are they aiming directly to Acura TL, if so they might need that deeper 1st gear for the auto to put those new ponies to good use

Dave B

*This is all in good fun, buddy*

I think your driving and conditions improved, not necessarily the car. Even with an auto, driving can improve. When I first started drag racing my Maxima, I was running 15.5-15.6 at 91mph. My mods were a y-pipe, intake, and muffler. A month later with the same mods I was running 15.3@92. I then added a B-pipe and I was running 15.1@94. Then winter came and I couldn't race. In March of this year, I ran a 14.7@94 with the same exact mods as my last outing months before. Simply put, my driving improved and so did the conditions.

14.2 with all the bolt-ons isn't attainable for a 5 speed (your giving me something to shoot for). Hmmmmmm.....ever hear of Jeff K or Madd Max? Both of these drivers hit 14.3s with basic mods. Jeff's 95 had a intake, y-pipe, catback, JWT ecu, and drag radials. The funny thing is the drag radials didn't help, he still pulled a high 2.1 60'. Madd Max's 2K SE only had an intake and y-pipe and he was running on 17s.

Didn't Don do his 14.2 on full blown tiny FWD slicks and every single NA mod out there? I'd say ALL of his 14.2 et was in the 60 foot. I'm assuming he probably pulled a low 1.9 60 foot, right? 14.2 at what? 92mph?

All in good fun!!!


Dave

niceorange

One major problem with ATs is that indeed you do miss the shifts... or should I say the car does. ATs dont know when you're coming up on an S turn, or the split second when you are going to smoke past the guy in front of you. Plain and simple, auto tranny's are reactive, manual trannys are pro-active. Also, the odds of overreving a manual transmission are extremely slim for a few reasons. Say you're doing 70 and want to down shift from 4th to 3rd.... The stick has to go up, and you are either hitting 3 or 1. You cant actually hit one, because the syncros in a manual cant accelerate the clutch to such a high RPM easily. Either you will have to push extremely hard, and hear the clutch wind up slowly, or you will jump over the syncro, and hear the grinding. Either way, you still have your pistons.

Sonic

Quite a few people have missed a shift and ended up in the wrong gear, doing damage to their engine and/or clutch. But the rest of your poaint is valid.

Jeff91SE

Missing a shift is just a chance you take driving a 5speed. I grind gears every once in awhile, sure. It happens. Just dont do it racing. I usually do it when Im lazy and let out the clutch too fast.

I just got rid of a car with an auto..it was killing me! I had a '95 Beretta Z26 (4T60E transmission). That tranny was great and it will last a while but it sucked for racing! The gears were HORRIBLE!

bigtexan7

I agree Dave, it's all in good fun; no hard feelins over here! I just feel that autos are underrated here on the boards. True, they are not and will never be as fast as a 5spd. and 'fun to drive factor' isn't as great, etc.
I'm just trying to de-bunk the myth that autos don't respond well to mods.
Honestly when I ran my 16.1 in December, it was 55deg out and when I ran my 15.1 in May it was 88deg out. so the weather variable would be in my favor, and I have only pulled one 2.3 60' in thirteen passes. they have all been consistent 2.4s(suck). This and the fact that I always deep stage, and never take my foot off the gas means there is no room for driver error here. (we all know reaction times have no effect on et) I still dropped one full second which means autos respond VERY well to mods.
When I bought my car, I didn't really plan on modding it(I didn't think they made anything for it)If I was to buy another Max right now, I'd get a 5spd, but I do really enjoy my auto.
I step off my soapbox.

Kenneth

iTrader: (8)

With the CE light on, the ECU is functioning in closed-loop mode and restricts full horsepower.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

When you say the CE light, do you mean the service engine soon light, or check engine light?? If so, I believe that the ECU only restricts horsepower for severe issues, like mis-firing etc. In those severe situations, the Check engine light will blink continuously, rather than stay on. That is whn hp is restricted.

The Check engine light tends to go on (as a steady light, not blinking) more often for emissions related issues. Mine did, and stayed like that for 3 weeks until I had Nissan fix it. I didn't feel any hp loss. I have the service manual at home and I'll double check.

ejj

iTrader: (5)

I doubt that. My light is always on for the rear O2 sensor, and I've raced with it, and gotten times that are very similar to, if not better than, most of the other NA 4th gens.

UMD_MaxSE

iTrader: (1)

i think the rear O2 sensor only checks for the presence of the pre cats or the main cat. It may not put the engine into limp mode.

ejj

iTrader: (5)

Being my ( and dwapenyi's ) point. The ECU will not restrict the engine just if the MIL is on. Only if it is a serious engine problem.

MaxedOut97SE

It cracks me up how defensive auto drivers get. It's like they won't admit to themselves that auto's suck. (no offense!!!) I mean, the Maxima auto is decent enough, but it's not like its the BMW 3-mode steptronic.

gLok

I would never have considered a camry or maxima if they didnt come with a 5 speed. Thats just me though, thats just how I am. Driving these cars in auto and then in stick is like two different cars. Autos are cool for getting to work (stop and go in a stick SUCKS) and for loungin with a female so your hands can be used for better things than shifting. For modding though, 5 speed v6 sedans are where its at.

Also, this talk of autos are more consistent is true BUT a good driver can also be pretty consistent. Case in point, one time at the track out of 7 or 8 runs i ran all 15.0s and most were in a few tenths of each other!

Chillboy

Aiite, I drive a 5 speed, but there are many times when i wish i had an auto. for example, i cant hold my gf's hand anymore in city driving, DC traffic is the 2nd worst in the country, is easier to pimp because you can move your seat farther back, and easier to smoke whatever when you have an auto. but even with those advantages, i must say ill never go back to auto... because what it basically comes down to is that manual cars are simply more fun to drive. ok, im out.... peace!

UMD_MaxSE

iTrader: (1)

that is why I have an auto. I commute every day like 60 miles in DC rush hour. A stick just would be great, but not in what I go through every day.

MaxedOut97SE

Sticks do suck in stop and go traffic, but I just got used to it. I never think "I wish I had an auto".