Mizike

iTrader: (7)

Tonight I upgraded to 2k4 calipers along with RTB slotted rotors and Hawk HPS pads for the fronts only. No work was done to the rear brakes at all. Everything went well, atleast I thought so. After bleeding the front brakes, I decided to take it for a spin. Brakes went all the way to the floor and didnt even stop the car. Pulled back into the garage to bleed the front brakes again. I did not bleed the rears since I did not perform any maintance to them. My method for bleeding went as such using a brake bleeder bottle; (i.e, clear bottle with a clear tube fitting connected to the bleeder screw).
1. With bleeder bottle hose connected to the bleeder screw, friend pumped brakes 2-3 times til pedal was firm and held the pedal.
2. Bleeder screw was opened to allow brake fluid with bubbles to escape. Once all bubbles and fluid had passed, bleeder screw was turned closed and brake pedal was released.
This procedure was repeated until only brake fluid with no bubbles came out. Reservoir was watched to make sure the fluid level did not fall below the minimum line. Also the brake fluid reservoir was only open during moments of fill up, other wise it was left closed. Also, engine was not running. E-brake was engaged. Bleeding continued going back and forth from the passenger side to the drivers til no bubbles came out and pedal was firm to the press. Finally, went for a ride with similiar results, with the only difference being that the brakes did actually start working, but the pedal still went to the floor and only after a moment did the car come to a complete stop, only going 5 mph. Once car was started, pedal did not feel as firm as when it was off. Pulled back into the garage to bleed some more. same procedure except this time, brake was pumped once, twice, or three times, then held. I refused to pump like crazy when 1-3 times seemed to do the same thing. E-brake was disengaged this time. Also, car was running while the brakes were pumped and bleed, but was turned off when refilling the brake fluid reservoir. Brake seemed to be firmer, but they still drop to the floor and braking power has hardly increased from nothing. I am in dier need of advice to fix my brakes. Please let me know what I need to do to properly bleed these brakes. What am I doing wrong? What am I doing right? Thanks in advance for the help fellas.
Mike

CalsonicSE

iTrader: (3)

You have air in the system. The lines are all interconnected meaning even if you work on the front, you'll need still need to bleed the rears.

A33 VQ30DEK

iTrader: (23)

i would suggest to disconnect the battery if you have ABS, then pump the brakes for about 30 times, and then start bleeding from the farthest to closet to the brake master cylinder.


or maybe you have a leaky brake master cylinder?

aussie983

iTrader: (16)

+1 on this. The factory manual also states a certain order you bleed the brakes, so that you get all the air out.

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

do all 4 corners

Mizike

iTrader: (7)

Is the car supposed to be running while doing all this pumping and bleeding? Disconnect the battery?....really? And what about the E-brake, does that matter if its engaged or not?

MAXRB8

iTrader: (19)

Funny I never had to do my rears, but anyway follow this procedure for all four brakes, if all else fails you could take it to a brake shop and get them to bleed the system for you, won't cost much especially compared to the money you have saved installing the Calipers, rotors, and pads etc yourself. Good job so far!

Model equipped with ABS: left rear caliper or wheel cylinder, right rear caliper or wheel cylinder, left front caliper, right front caliper, ABS actuator.

On models with ABS, be sure to turn the ignition OFF and unplug the actuator connector.

Clean all the bleeder screws. You may want to give each one a shot of a penetrating lubricant to loosen it up; seizure is a common problem with bleeder screws, which then break off, usually requiring replacement of the part to which they are attached.

Fill the master cylinder with DOT 3 brake fluid.

Check the level of the fluid often when bleeding, and refill the reservoirs as necessary. Don't let them run dry, or you will have to repeat the process.

Attach a length of clear vinyl tubing to the bleeder screw on the wheel cylinder (or master cylinder). Insert the other end of the tube into a clear, clean jar half filled with brake fluid.

Have you helper slowly depress the brake pedal. As this is done, open the bleeder screw 1/3-1/2 of a turn, and allow the fluid to run through the tube. Then close the bleeder screw before the pedal reaches the end of its travel. Have you assistant slowly release the pedal. Repeat this process until no air bubbles appear in the expelled fluid.

If the brake pedal is depressed too fast, small air bubbles will form in the brake fluid.

Repeat the procedure on the other remaining bleeder screws, checking the level of fluid in the cylinder reservoirs often.

When all the air has been bleed from the system, perform the following steps:

If disconnected, reconnect the actuator.

Pressurize the system and check for leaks.

Check and fill the fluid reservoir, good luck and get back to us.

chernmax

iTrader: (15)

I made the same mistake, I had to take it to my buddies shop and he used a machine to suck the air out of the lines.

MetaOrbit

iTrader: (19)

On your test drives, where the brakes felt like they weren't working, did the ABS ever kick in?

I had basically the same problem you had when I did my 2k4 conversion, and was told by someone that I'd need to cycle the ABS, or get the ABS actuators working help get any and all air that might still be in there out. After 3 consecutive bleeds and with the ABS kicking in the pedal came back up. It was the weirdest thing.

Mizike

iTrader: (7)

After the initial bleed, brakes went straight to the floor not stopping the car at all. After second bleed, brakes felt a bit more firm and barely stopped the car, but nothing like it should. During all this, the brake pedal always rose back up without a problem. How can you tell if ABS kicks in? Ive had it kick in on me before when it was icy out and it felt and sounded very distinctive. I didnt hear or feel anything like that. So how do I get the ABS actuators working? Have the car running while doing pumping and bleeding the brakes? How do you "cycle the actuator?"

MetaOrbit

iTrader: (19)

Best way to get the ABS to kick in is go to a deserted area, get it going, hammer the brakes, and try to get it to skid...at that point, the ABS should kick in. You should hear it and feel it.

Mizike

iTrader: (7)

But even after I get the ABS to kick in, how does that get air out of the brake lines without me connecting the bleeder hose and opening up the bleeder screw? I thought using the bleeder hose and opening the bleeder screw was the only way to remove bubbles. Please elaborate. Also, when bleeding all for corners, I should start from furthest to closest to brake cyclinder, so passenger rear, drivers rear, passenger front and driver front.

ChasMan

Work diagonaly!

Left Rear, Right Front, Right Rear, Left Front.

Pump the pedal several times slowly and firmly. Hold the pedal down, open the bleeder, then close the bleeder. Then release the pedal slowly. Do this until there is no more air. Repeat for each wheel.

Avoid pressing the pedal beyond where it normally travels.

And get a repair manual and read it.

MetaOrbit

iTrader: (19)

Really, I don't know. I got the ABS to kick in and then had it bled again. No bubbles came out either, but the pedal firmed up. Just relating my experience.

ChasMan

Sorry, I posted info from 98 Max Book. 2003 may be different.

Perhaps going out and braking hard unstuck a nice big bubble some place.

Mizike

iTrader: (7)

Update:
The car was off and the battery cable was disconnected. I bled all 4 calipers going from RR, LR FR, LR. No noticable amount of bubbles escaped, making me wonder if I was even doing anything or not. I pressurized the system before I started the car and the pedal felt normally firm. Once I started the car and pulled out of the garage, the pedal immediately didnt feel as firm as before I started the car. There still seems to be a "mushy" feeling to it. The brakes definately stop the car, but not on a dime. It seems to take a quick second for them to "catch". Does the firmness come back or increase? I want to bed the brakes in ASAP, but dont want to be caught doing a 60-10 mph stop with mushy brakes. What do I need to do?

ThurzNite

iTrader: (13)

Just throwing out ideas... maybe vacuum leak? or master cyclinder problem?
Jae