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VIP anyone?

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Old 09-08-2006, 04:25 PM
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VIP anyone?

any vip ppl on here? im trying to find some maxima/cefiro parts and there only seem to only a few places that deal with vip kits. i tried one of the vip forums, but no maximas on there.
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Old 09-09-2006, 10:41 PM
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in the house !
 
Old 09-09-2006, 11:32 PM
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ehh....

maybe.
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Old 09-10-2006, 11:46 PM
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damn that's f*cking nice. i'm digging the lips and TV's galore...
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Old 09-11-2006, 07:15 AM
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maxima is NOT a VIP car. has to be a luxury 4 door RWD sedan.
Nissan President, Cima, Gloria, Cedric and Fuga; Toyota Celsior, Century, Aristo, Crown and Majesta
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Old 09-11-2006, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by dmBK
maxima is NOT a VIP car. has to be a luxury 4 door RWD sedan.
Nissan President, Cima, Gloria, Cedric and Fuga; Toyota Celsior, Century, Aristo, Crown and Majesta

agreed ! mad camber, deep dish and slammed to the ground all the way with tucked in low pro tires is a must for ANY vip car !
 
Old 09-11-2006, 06:13 PM
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Can someone fill me in on WTF Cefiro is, I know what a Fiero is and I know what a Maxima is, but Ive never seen or heard of a Cefiro outside maxima.org.
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Old 09-11-2006, 07:26 PM
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cefiro = international maxima
 
Old 09-11-2006, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by dmBK
maxima is NOT a VIP car. has to be a luxury 4 door RWD sedan.
Nissan President, Cima, Gloria, Cedric and Fuga; Toyota Celsior, Century, Aristo, Crown and Majesta

WRONG!!

XB's are considered VIPs nowadays too!

thats fwd SCION xb's.



along with minivans

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Old 09-11-2006, 10:52 PM
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whats VIP?...
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Old 09-11-2006, 11:01 PM
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its a certain style of modding a vehicle...

usually body mods, SLAMMED, and either huge rims or small rims...either way they're tucked...
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Old 09-11-2006, 11:36 PM
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True VIP:


Check out Junction Produce (google) or http://www.auto-couture.com/index_en.html for more examples. VIp style is becoming more influential with other cars now.
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Old 09-11-2006, 11:47 PM
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IS that what they mean at some Parking places when they charge for VIP?

hehehe...
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Old 09-12-2006, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by VIP Maxima
in the house !
you are a fake VIP
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Old 09-12-2006, 07:28 AM
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no such thing as a fake vip.
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Old 09-12-2006, 08:09 AM
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I'm VIP...
 
Old 09-12-2006, 08:17 AM
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A 6th gen could look even better than the GS Lexus above if there was a VIP kit for it.
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Old 09-12-2006, 08:19 AM
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Old 09-12-2006, 08:24 AM
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$25,000 in mods and Vent-Visors....
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Old 09-12-2006, 08:26 AM
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Don't forget that if it's done right, it's also about keeping the lines clean. Yes you slam it on huge chrome deep-dishies and no-pros with tons of camber, yes you slap spoilers and a huge widebody kit on it, yes you tint the crap out of everything... But you do it intelligently. You make the design flow.

Leave it to the Japanese to take something totally childish and make it into an art.
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Old 09-12-2006, 08:32 AM
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Front window tint is a must.
 
Old 09-12-2006, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by d00df00d
Don't forget that if it's done right, it's also about keeping the lines clean. Yes you slam it on huge chrome deep-dishies and no-pros with tons of camber, yes you slap spoilers and a huge widebody kit on it, yes you tint the crap out of everything... But you do it intelligently. You make the design flow.

Leave it to the Japanese to take something totally childish and make it into an art.

much like drifting right?
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Old 09-12-2006, 11:43 AM
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having the camber like that must be bad for the car...not to mention your tires are going to be bald really fast.
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Old 09-12-2006, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by happyricefob
you are a fake VIP
VIP in my screen name is not refering to VIP style Maxima
 
Old 09-12-2006, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by VIP Maxima
VIP in my screen name is not refering to VIP style Maxima
youre a VIP on the org.
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Old 09-12-2006, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by cefiro8701
much like drifting right?
Actually, yes.

Don't forget, drifting wasn't stupid until Americans started doing it.


Originally Posted by 04BlackMaxx
having the camber like that must be bad for the car...not to mention your tires are going to be bald really fast.
Not bad for the car, really. Bad for the tires, yes.

But you have to admit, it's no worse than what we do in America. We bling out with SUVs on huge dub-whateverthehells. That IS bad for the car, and it doesn't even look good...
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Old 09-12-2006, 12:12 PM
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VIP has been around for along time in Japan with Japanese Yakuza and theirstyle of fixing up luxury cars. It is barely starting to take off here in the states. People are picking up on it with efforts of such tire companies as Falken with their VIP based shows/magazine ads. Since it is something so new america has taken the basics off it and added their own twist with VIP "style" by taken non traditional VIP cars and giving it "the look." Much like drifting expect this to take off here in the states in the next couple of years.
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Old 09-12-2006, 12:48 PM
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yesterday i saw an older body LS VIP. full Wald kit, slammed to the ground with the back muffler barely clearing. ill take pics today if i see it at school again.

and yes im starting to see more VIP style lexus's at car shows too !
 
Old 09-12-2006, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by cefiro8701
WRONG!!

XB's are considered VIPs nowadays too!

thats fwd SCION xb's.



along with minivans

Link to proof???

IMO VIP's are 4 door slammed luxury sedans (not vans) of a particular class of Japanese cars.

Unless of course the US tries to attach a new meaning to the class...
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Old 09-12-2006, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by chernmax
Link to proof???

IMO VIP's are 4 door slammed luxury sedans (not vans) of a particular class of Japanese cars.

Unless of course the US tries to attach a new meaning to the class...
Vans has always been apart of VIP lifestyle in Japan.
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Old 09-12-2006, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Battle Max
Vans has always been apart of VIP lifestyle in Japan.
Maybe, but not in the 12 years I lived in Japan!!!

This is the way I understand the true VIP designation...

What is VIP? European, Japanese or American automobiles which are recognized as luxury vehicles.
VIP- The ultimate VIP vehicle can be defined by the perfect synthesis of form and function. Established and respected European/Japanese tuning firms provide the components that ultimately help create a VIP style vehicle. Often these parts are rather difficult and expensive to obtain. The latest in technology and materials are used to ensure the vehicle is on the leading edge of tuning. Cost is often a secondary concern to quality. There are no short cuts taken on a VIP vehicle. From the exterior to the interior, modifications are completed that extend beyond the simple bolt-ons. Attention to detail is paramount among those serious about VIP tuning. Flawless workmanship and custom styling cues are the rule, not the exception. Whether a VIP vehicle is parked on the streets of LA, Miami or NYC, there is no mistaking the sleek, upscale style. VIP tuning is universally recognized by the high-end look and feel.



Japanese VIP Tuning

If you don't know what Japanese VIP tuning is, it's pretty simple. In Japan, there is a long list of big luxury cars available to the market. From the Nissan Cima to the Toyota Aristo, these cars are upgraded by way of fancy body kits, huge expensive rims, air suspension, insane sound systems, etc.

Some of the cars that are popular with VIP tuning in Japan are the Crowns, Aristos, Majestas, Celsiors, and Cimas. There is a long list of models with each having a healthy following. Body kits are a major part of the tuning process. Normally VIP saloons are outfitted with widebody kits and huge sidesteps that makes the car look like it's an inch off the ground. It may sound surprising but huge double decked, GTR, and supra wings are not the norm when it comes to Japanese VIP tuning. What is popular though is the whale tail. Small lip spoilers that have been molded to the trunk are also very popular but the whale tails definitely attract the most attention.

One of the craziest aspects of the tuning they do is to the mufflers. Wild mufflers are definitely a big part of the VIP style. You'll see single mufflers that are pretty average and singles that seem to stick out 2 feet from the car and curve upwards.



The interiors of the cars are highly modified too. Full leather interiors, wood and carbon fiber dash kits, electronic suspension controlling systems, expensive floor mats, navigation systems, insane sound systems, and expensive steering wheels are just some of the modifications made. They will also have lots of neon and black lighting on the inside.

The stereo systems are also a major factor when it comes to VIP tuning. They go all out with amazing systems. Expensive CD / navigation head units and the biggest subs that can fit in their cars along with everything else needed to have an awesome system are installed. Pretty much all of the cars will also have TV screens too.

The most popular platforms for Japanese VIP tuning include Lexus or Infinity.



European VIP Tuning

European VIP tuning emphasizes modification of the vehicle in an upscale fashion. The mixture of performance and aesthetic customization of the vehicle does not compromise its overall luxury.

Exterior modification is usually the combination of adding aerodynamic components from respected European tuners, along with some creative custom individualization. Molding of bodywork is popular among this crowd to create a seamless, integrated look. The wheels on these European VIP automobiles are usually multi-piece and not smaller than 19 inches. Often, these wheels are built with custom offsets to achieve a dramatic wheel lip, while allowing for upgraded brake caliper clearance.

The interior of a European VIP vehicle is adorned with the latest in technology and materials. Carbon fiber, alcantara and leather combine to create a driver/passenger environment that is luxurious yet sporty. Complete in-car entertainment systems are carefully integrated and installed with an attention to quality over quantity.

Performance modifications from exhaust and intake to forced induction of normally aspirated engines are common. The key is an installation that can pass as being originally equipped from the factory. Upgraded suspension and brake systems are installed to complete the overall performance package.

The most popular platforms for European VIP tuning include Audi, BMW and Mercedes Benz automobiles. Competition is intense among this elite segment. The cars that consistently win have a cohesive overall theme that is evident in each judging criteria. The careful attention to detail distinguishes the winners in European VIP tuning.


Defined according to NCCA Competition Regulations



Cars eligible for VIP classification include the following brands and respective models:

Audi - A6, A8, all S models

BMW - 5, 6, 7, all M models

Mercedes Benz - CLK, CLS, E, S, SL, all AMG models

Lexus - GS400, LS 400, SC400

Infiniti - I, M, Q models

Volkswagen - Phaeton

Exotics - Aston Martin, Ferrari, Lamborghini and Porsche models

Cadillac – CTS-V, Deville, STS, XLR

Chrysler - 300M

Lincoln - LS

What signifies VIP versus HIN classification?

A competition vehicle which is styled to either Japanese or European VIP specifications as stated in the above description (See pages 1 and 2). If your vehicle is not VIP style, you will be placed in the HIN section of the show for competition.

This means VIP vehicles whether European, Japanese or American, will be placed into one of the following 6 categories based on NCCA Entry Level, Conservative and Extreme classifications.

Competition Classes

VIP Sedan Entry Level 1

VIP Coupe Entry Level 1

VIP Entry Level is for vehicles which are not considered VIP classification according to NCCA regulations. This includes all Audi A4, BMW 3 Series, Mercedes Benz C Class, Lexus IS/GS/LS300, Infinity G Series, and Cadillac CTS. To be eligible in this class, the vehicle must still be built to VIP conservative/extreme standards. It allows competitors with these vehicles a chance to compete in VIP if they choose to do so. Otherwise, they shall compete in HIN mild/wild classes.

VIP Sedan Conservative 1-3

VIP Coupe Conservative 1-3

VIP Conservative - The ultimate VIP conservative vehicle is the embodiment of form and function. Various manufacturers provide the intricate parts which go into creating these vehicles. The exterior of such vehicles are often full of bolt-on modifications which require detailed workmanship. The interior of these vehicles are modified with careful attention to the smallest detail. When modifying a VIP conservative project, one word comes to mind, clean. Clean does not refer to the cleanliness of the vehicle, but to the way the vehicle has been put together. Wild modifications are not seen, but custom paint is allowed. Cars do not have molded body parts or any type of custom alteration to the factory panels. They are built to flow with the original form of the car.

VIP Sedan Extreme 1-3

VIP Coupe Extreme 1-3

VIP Extreme - The ultimate VIP extreme vehicle is the embodiment of form and function. While various manufacturers provide the parts which go into modifying these vehicles, often these parts are extremely rare. Custom work is required in creating a VIP extreme project. The exterior of such vehicles require unique detailed workmanship, and the interior is completely customized with combinations of carbon fiber, alcantara, or leather. Complete in car entertainment systems are the norm. Wild/extreme modifications that require an immense amount of work are often found. Such modifications include intricate custom bodywork, molded body parts, wide body conversions, custom paint jobs, forced induction, and/or drive train swaps.

All VIP vehicles (entry level, conservative, extreme) will also be eligible for competition according to manufacturer.



Manufactures Classes

Best Audi

Best BMW

Best Mercedes Benz

Best Infinity

Best Lexus

Best Exotic (Ferrari, Lamborghini and Porsche)

Best Domestic (Cadillac, Chrysler 300M, Lincoln LS)

All VIP vehicles (entry level, conservative, extreme) are also eligible for any of the specialty awards.

Specialty Awards

Best EDM - Best use of authentic European Domestic Manufactured products in a vehicle. Emphasis is placed on using products of the car’s country of origin. Use of non-country of origin products will cause loss of points in the respective category. Examples of EDM products include but are not limited to AC Schnitzer, Hamann, Brabus, Carlsson, Lorinser, Abt, Oettinger, TechArt, Imola Racing, and Miura Corse.

Best DTM - Best use of product to replicate a true Deutsche Tourenwagen Master vehicle. These vehicles are always wide-bodied (usually custom made). They also have intricate suspension systems set up for racing and have wild paint schemes too. Audio/video systems are not seen in these vehicles; though allowed will cause the loss of points in this category.

Best Engineered Vehicle - This is awarded to the VIP vehicle with the best drive train swap or naturally aspirated to forced induction conversion. To qualify for the award, the vehicle must be fully functional and in driving condition.

Best Interior - This is awarded to the VIP vehicle that has the most extensively modified interior theme combined with near perfect workmanship. Some alterations include use of rare parts, carbon fiber, custom upholstery and/or fiberglass work.

Best Paint - This is awarded to the VIP vehicle that has the best quality paint job. No paint chips, orange peel, dull spots, fading, etc are allowed. The paint will have the cleanest finish of any vehicle on the show floor. The paint color and quantity of colors does not play a factor in this award.

Best Entertainment System - This is awarded to the VIP vehicle with the cleanest and most customized audio/video system. This includes speakers, head units, amps, monitors, DVD, navigation, and overall installation of the various components. It is not so much quantity of product but rather the quality and originality of installation that will win this award.
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Old 09-13-2006, 04:59 AM
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300M? How old is this article you cut and pasted? Its all about the 300C for today's VIP's.
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Old 09-13-2006, 05:20 AM
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Originally Posted by 04BlackMaxx
300M? How old is this article you cut and pasted? Its all about the 300C for today's VIP's.
Oh yeah, the 300C is almost 2.5 years old now. WOW!!!
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Old 09-13-2006, 08:43 AM
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I read the first line and gave up. Cliff notes To be honest VIP has been a big part the last year for me. Junction produce this blah blahh blahh...

Originally Posted by chernmax
Maybe, but not in the 12 years I lived in Japan!!!

This is the way I understand the true VIP designation...

What is VIP? European, Japanese or American automobiles which are recognized as luxury vehicles.
VIP- The ultimate VIP vehicle can be defined by the perfect synthesis of form and function. Established and respected European/Japanese tuning firms provide the components that ultimately help create a VIP style vehicle. Often these parts are rather difficult and expensive to obtain. The latest in technology and materials are used to ensure the vehicle is on the leading edge of tuning. Cost is often a secondary concern to quality. There are no short cuts taken on a VIP vehicle. From the exterior to the interior, modifications are completed that extend beyond the simple bolt-ons. Attention to detail is paramount among those serious about VIP tuning. Flawless workmanship and custom styling cues are the rule, not the exception. Whether a VIP vehicle is parked on the streets of LA, Miami or NYC, there is no mistaking the sleek, upscale style. VIP tuning is universally recognized by the high-end look and feel.



Japanese VIP Tuning

If you don't know what Japanese VIP tuning is, it's pretty simple. In Japan, there is a long list of big luxury cars available to the market. From the Nissan Cima to the Toyota Aristo, these cars are upgraded by way of fancy body kits, huge expensive rims, air suspension, insane sound systems, etc.

Some of the cars that are popular with VIP tuning in Japan are the Crowns, Aristos, Majestas, Celsiors, and Cimas. There is a long list of models with each having a healthy following. Body kits are a major part of the tuning process. Normally VIP saloons are outfitted with widebody kits and huge sidesteps that makes the car look like it's an inch off the ground. It may sound surprising but huge double decked, GTR, and supra wings are not the norm when it comes to Japanese VIP tuning. What is popular though is the whale tail. Small lip spoilers that have been molded to the trunk are also very popular but the whale tails definitely attract the most attention.

One of the craziest aspects of the tuning they do is to the mufflers. Wild mufflers are definitely a big part of the VIP style. You'll see single mufflers that are pretty average and singles that seem to stick out 2 feet from the car and curve upwards.



The interiors of the cars are highly modified too. Full leather interiors, wood and carbon fiber dash kits, electronic suspension controlling systems, expensive floor mats, navigation systems, insane sound systems, and expensive steering wheels are just some of the modifications made. They will also have lots of neon and black lighting on the inside.

The stereo systems are also a major factor when it comes to VIP tuning. They go all out with amazing systems. Expensive CD / navigation head units and the biggest subs that can fit in their cars along with everything else needed to have an awesome system are installed. Pretty much all of the cars will also have TV screens too.

The most popular platforms for Japanese VIP tuning include Lexus or Infinity.



European VIP Tuning

European VIP tuning emphasizes modification of the vehicle in an upscale fashion. The mixture of performance and aesthetic customization of the vehicle does not compromise its overall luxury.

Exterior modification is usually the combination of adding aerodynamic components from respected European tuners, along with some creative custom individualization. Molding of bodywork is popular among this crowd to create a seamless, integrated look. The wheels on these European VIP automobiles are usually multi-piece and not smaller than 19 inches. Often, these wheels are built with custom offsets to achieve a dramatic wheel lip, while allowing for upgraded brake caliper clearance.

The interior of a European VIP vehicle is adorned with the latest in technology and materials. Carbon fiber, alcantara and leather combine to create a driver/passenger environment that is luxurious yet sporty. Complete in-car entertainment systems are carefully integrated and installed with an attention to quality over quantity.

Performance modifications from exhaust and intake to forced induction of normally aspirated engines are common. The key is an installation that can pass as being originally equipped from the factory. Upgraded suspension and brake systems are installed to complete the overall performance package.

The most popular platforms for European VIP tuning include Audi, BMW and Mercedes Benz automobiles. Competition is intense among this elite segment. The cars that consistently win have a cohesive overall theme that is evident in each judging criteria. The careful attention to detail distinguishes the winners in European VIP tuning.


Defined according to NCCA Competition Regulations



Cars eligible for VIP classification include the following brands and respective models:

Audi - A6, A8, all S models

BMW - 5, 6, 7, all M models

Mercedes Benz - CLK, CLS, E, S, SL, all AMG models

Lexus - GS400, LS 400, SC400

Infiniti - I, M, Q models

Volkswagen - Phaeton

Exotics - Aston Martin, Ferrari, Lamborghini and Porsche models

Cadillac – CTS-V, Deville, STS, XLR

Chrysler - 300M

Lincoln - LS

What signifies VIP versus HIN classification?

A competition vehicle which is styled to either Japanese or European VIP specifications as stated in the above description (See pages 1 and 2). If your vehicle is not VIP style, you will be placed in the HIN section of the show for competition.

This means VIP vehicles whether European, Japanese or American, will be placed into one of the following 6 categories based on NCCA Entry Level, Conservative and Extreme classifications.

Competition Classes

VIP Sedan Entry Level 1

VIP Coupe Entry Level 1

VIP Entry Level is for vehicles which are not considered VIP classification according to NCCA regulations. This includes all Audi A4, BMW 3 Series, Mercedes Benz C Class, Lexus IS/GS/LS300, Infinity G Series, and Cadillac CTS. To be eligible in this class, the vehicle must still be built to VIP conservative/extreme standards. It allows competitors with these vehicles a chance to compete in VIP if they choose to do so. Otherwise, they shall compete in HIN mild/wild classes.

VIP Sedan Conservative 1-3

VIP Coupe Conservative 1-3

VIP Conservative - The ultimate VIP conservative vehicle is the embodiment of form and function. Various manufacturers provide the intricate parts which go into creating these vehicles. The exterior of such vehicles are often full of bolt-on modifications which require detailed workmanship. The interior of these vehicles are modified with careful attention to the smallest detail. When modifying a VIP conservative project, one word comes to mind, clean. Clean does not refer to the cleanliness of the vehicle, but to the way the vehicle has been put together. Wild modifications are not seen, but custom paint is allowed. Cars do not have molded body parts or any type of custom alteration to the factory panels. They are built to flow with the original form of the car.

VIP Sedan Extreme 1-3

VIP Coupe Extreme 1-3

VIP Extreme - The ultimate VIP extreme vehicle is the embodiment of form and function. While various manufacturers provide the parts which go into modifying these vehicles, often these parts are extremely rare. Custom work is required in creating a VIP extreme project. The exterior of such vehicles require unique detailed workmanship, and the interior is completely customized with combinations of carbon fiber, alcantara, or leather. Complete in car entertainment systems are the norm. Wild/extreme modifications that require an immense amount of work are often found. Such modifications include intricate custom bodywork, molded body parts, wide body conversions, custom paint jobs, forced induction, and/or drive train swaps.

All VIP vehicles (entry level, conservative, extreme) will also be eligible for competition according to manufacturer.



Manufactures Classes

Best Audi

Best BMW

Best Mercedes Benz

Best Infinity

Best Lexus

Best Exotic (Ferrari, Lamborghini and Porsche)

Best Domestic (Cadillac, Chrysler 300M, Lincoln LS)

All VIP vehicles (entry level, conservative, extreme) are also eligible for any of the specialty awards.

Specialty Awards

Best EDM - Best use of authentic European Domestic Manufactured products in a vehicle. Emphasis is placed on using products of the car’s country of origin. Use of non-country of origin products will cause loss of points in the respective category. Examples of EDM products include but are not limited to AC Schnitzer, Hamann, Brabus, Carlsson, Lorinser, Abt, Oettinger, TechArt, Imola Racing, and Miura Corse.

Best DTM - Best use of product to replicate a true Deutsche Tourenwagen Master vehicle. These vehicles are always wide-bodied (usually custom made). They also have intricate suspension systems set up for racing and have wild paint schemes too. Audio/video systems are not seen in these vehicles; though allowed will cause the loss of points in this category.

Best Engineered Vehicle - This is awarded to the VIP vehicle with the best drive train swap or naturally aspirated to forced induction conversion. To qualify for the award, the vehicle must be fully functional and in driving condition.

Best Interior - This is awarded to the VIP vehicle that has the most extensively modified interior theme combined with near perfect workmanship. Some alterations include use of rare parts, carbon fiber, custom upholstery and/or fiberglass work.

Best Paint - This is awarded to the VIP vehicle that has the best quality paint job. No paint chips, orange peel, dull spots, fading, etc are allowed. The paint will have the cleanest finish of any vehicle on the show floor. The paint color and quantity of colors does not play a factor in this award.

Best Entertainment System - This is awarded to the VIP vehicle with the cleanest and most customized audio/video system. This includes speakers, head units, amps, monitors, DVD, navigation, and overall installation of the various components. It is not so much quantity of product but rather the quality and originality of installation that will win this award.
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Old 09-13-2006, 09:08 AM
  #35  
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Too bad NCCA doesn't even know how to spell "Infiniti".
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Old 09-13-2006, 09:27 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Battle Max
I read the first line and gave up. Cliff notes To be honest VIP has been a big part the last year for me. Junction produce this blah blahh blahh...
That's cool, and just to clarify something, I like VIP and for being apart of it. It's all good...
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Old 09-13-2006, 12:16 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by chernmax
Defined according to NCCA Competition Regulations

Cars eligible for VIP classification include the following brands and respective models:

Infiniti - I, M, Q models
im pretty sure the infinity I series is the same as a maxima...maybe maximas do qualify
 
Old 09-13-2006, 12:29 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Hoooper
im pretty sure the infinity I series is the same as a maxima...maybe maximas do qualify
a maxima's a maxima....in no part of the world would u see an i30 symbol on a maxima.
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Old 09-14-2006, 03:52 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by VIP Maxima
VIP in my screen name is not refering to VIP style Maxima
you are "doggy"











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Old 09-14-2006, 09:57 AM
  #40  
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i swear you and kloogy think you are so cool when you refer to me via my old screen name......... so lame
 


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