Broaner

iTrader: (10)

Despite the neighsayers I felt I had to share this info. I imagine many of you are on the Z boards as well but anyway...

All Motor VQ with 15:1
http://www.my350z.com/forum/showthread.php?t=255966


And then fully built stroked VQ42TT
http://www.my350z.com/forum/showthread.php?t=250133

Madsci

What do you mean by smallblock? I never thought of the LS series motors as "smallblock chevy" motors. They hardly share anything with the original design.

DandyMax

iTrader: (7)

I would tend to agree with that... ^^^ I don't really think of the LSx as being the same as the age old line of SBC's.

I think Broaner's analogy is an interesting one though, as more years go by and we see how the VQ develops it will be even more so. BTW that 4.2L TT is just .... I wouldn't even consider going to that level with a FWD personally.

Nonetheless I can't wait till I get a "Z engine" in my car to play with...

In the meantime (ie this season) solid 12's in a N/A VQ30 will have to do... *fingers crossed*

Torgus

iTrader: (10)

+1 .

Godson

I still think some are missing the point of the analogy.....these "better" V6's,these 3.5L's that Toyota and Hyundai are using can thank Nissan's sweet *** for helping bring performance minded 6 cylinders that weren't made by ze Germans into our cars.....Not saying it wouldn't have happened without Nissan or the VQ but its undeniable that they played a big part in it. If your automotive company X and Nissan has had one of the top 10 engines for 10 years,wouldn't you take a closer look and get your R&D in gear making something simliar...hell even better?

STARR

iTrader: (1)

I see your point but J Leno said in an interview that he never thought he would see Honda Civics be anything but econo cars, times are changing and the amount of import are adding up

krismax

iTrader: (15)

i see it ,guy wrote dave coleman at SCC asked what kind of engine and drivtrain for ultima kit car . dave said best bet is a vq35 ,for a different engine than usaul.

Broaner

iTrader: (10)

That is truely amazing Kris. I've felt that way for quite a while now.

You guys know the Nobles? They ship here without power plants in order to make the importation simpler because they are kit cars. They are set up to use TTV6's. I believe that they are currently a Duratec's but rumor has it that Noble is interested in making the "normal" power plant the VQ. Maybe this is just a word of mouth rumor but its a rumor nonetheless. Or if they aren't entertaining the idea they d@mn well should be. The M12's are already hands down my favorite car... period. With a VQ in NA or FI form the car would...(there are no words)

Dandy, I've been following your progress with the EMS stuff and I'm very excited to see where you continue your development. One day I'll definitely be stepping up and following in your(and others) footsteps. Best of luck with the progress.

DandyMax

iTrader: (7)

I'm just impressed with how much we can get out of the VQ, for being a 14 year old engine essentially. I mean even on my VQ30, without touching the internals, just doing external breathing mods and tuning essentially, I figure it had about 230whp, which is like what, 270 crank hp?

So that's not too far off the 100hp/L mark (90 actually), which is decent considering it's a 14 year old design, doesn't have variable cams of any sort or direct injection or the latest greatest technology etc. It should only get better with the newer VQ's..

Whitemax

Originally built as a race car engine. Nuff said............

95maxrider

iTrader: (32)

It's funny you bring up the Noble. Ever since I learned that they used the Duratec V6, and they came here without engine, I always thought a VQ would be a perfect candidate for the car. A simple DE-K and two small turbos would do wonders for the car. I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who thought that. Who will be the first to do it? I'm looking at you Broaner

Broaner

iTrader: (10)

When I get $70g's there is no doubt it will be put toward a Noble. Until then...

Very well put Dandy. I've never really thought of it in that light.

Pronto

Buick Stage II new blocks being made now in alumium and cast iron soon
Buick Stage I
Buick 109 block
In that order.

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

3.8 wise, Id take the 395 HP Naturally Aspirated, stock VQ38HR over the Buick 3800 ANY day.

jonmandude

iTrader: (1)

Since we are stating that the VQ is to V6's what the LS is to V8's, let us further the comparison.

The SBC started out back in 1957 as a 283 and very quickly was the first production engine to produce 1hp per cubic inch. It appeared in almost every vehicle in chevrolet's line up, from econo-boxes to performance cars to trucks to race cars. It went from a simple small block to the LT series to the LS series we have today. It has also now grown to almost 500CID.

The Nissan V6 started as the VG and had a production run of over 22 years powering everything in the Nissan line-up from economy cars to sports cars to trucks to race cars. That engine was then developed into the VE and now the VQ. It has grown in dimensions as well.

So I think the comparison can definitely be made considering the history of both power plants in production and racing.

Show me any other engine designs that have achieved the life span or success of both the Chevrolet small block and the Nissan V6.

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

One thing though, the VG has NOTHING to do with the VQ. The VG has been around in one form or another since the late 70s or early 80s. The VQ was introduced in late 1993 in Europe as a 3.0L with 217 HP stock (VI and stock y-pipe). Then North America got the "crappy" version with 190 HP in 1994.

VQuick

iTrader: (17)

Presumably Nissan engineers drew on their design and knowledge from the VG when they designed the VQ, even if they started from scratch.

Wow, I did not know that the European VQ. What cars was that in? I guess at the time they decided 190HP was plenty for the US market and it would save them a lot of money without the VI system.

5thgenmaxima

iTrader: (1)

Ummm..............Let's start with the Windsor?
I'm not sure if this comparision is SBC VS. VQ, or SBC VS. SBN (All Small block Nissans)..If you're going to compare ALL Nissan's blocks then we could also compare all SBF's which date back a hell of a long ways as well...

SBC = has had straight and v eight cylinder designs.....2,4,6 bolt mains
Yes Nissan has all of those, but if we are going SBC Vs. VQ then to the best of my knowledge there is only a 4 bolt main VQ..

Pronto

http://www.s-series.org/htm/tech/GMP...ts/149-152.pdf

http://www.taperformance.com/v6_block_flyer.htm

And you would loose.

nismology

iTrader: (8)

When I can go to a dealership and purchase a car with that block inside of it let me know....

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

The new HR series VQ is 6 bolt main.

No. 395 HP in my S13 roughly translates into 125+ MPH trap speeds. Something thats completely and totally IMPOSSIBLE for a Buick with a 100% stock 3800 in Naturally Aspirated form (straight from the factory, no stroker crap) to achieve. The Buick, without its big snail, would be REAL far in the rear view mirror.

Youre completely missing the point. A 100% BONE STOCK VQ38HR produces 400 crank horsepower with ZERO internal mods. Im talking the engine STRAIGHT from the factory, with no Forced Induction whatsoever.

When was the last time you saw a stock 3800 produce 400 HP in NA form? You know, a 3800 directly from the boneyard, just a stock, untouched engine?

Pronto

Don't give a ****, I'll still take an American designed and made engine. BTW if you make it to NH come to NED. I'd love to see some 125mph traps from a stock atmo Nissan.

nismology

iTrader: (8)

So it boils down to purely subjective preference, and nothing more. Thanks for coming.

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

Theres no doubt that 400 hp in a 2200 lbs car would do just that. You do the math if you dont believe me. Its all about HP to weight.

Meantime I am stuck with the regular VQ35DE, which, once tuned, should be enough to trap around what your car traps. And I wont need a turbo or the extra 0.3L to do it.

So yeah, thanks for coming.

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

I'm not taking one side or the other in this discussion, but...

That is a silly statement. If you use "drawing on their knowledge" as the standard for the continuity and longevity of a powerplant design, you could argue just about any engine from any company as being "the best because it's been around so long."

Another argument that may or may not be relevant:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the worldwide use of SBC-derived engines in other marques is one good example, though, of how widespread they are. For example, many British Rover V8s are really just a Buick engine rebadged...

VQuick

iTrader: (17)

Yeah, I know it was a silly statement and I agree wtih you.

Pronto

Oh wait, you don't have that engine, but you think your ride would run my numbers once you get tuned with the current engine. Like I haven't heard that before. I'ld run X if I had traction or my clutch is slipping, bla, bla, bla. Your just flapping your trap like so many bozo's I talk to in the staging lanes. Thanks for not coming to NED and not running your numbers with or without a turbo or .3L.

Broaner

iTrader: (10)

Quit fxcking up my thread... This is not the place to have a import vs. domestic war. Start your own thread please. I would strongly debate your points Pronto but I don't want this to get . That said I'll be glad to debate in your new thread.

The VQ has next to nothing in common with the VG's or VE's. Thats all there is to it on that front.

jonmandude

iTrader: (1)

Then the Chevy SBC you are talking about hasn't been around for 50 years either? Because the SBC's today have nothing in common with the original blocks either. If the VQ is not an evolution of the VG and VE, then the LS is not an evolution of the original SBC or the LT's.

krismax

iTrader: (15)

i will tell you one thing my 3.5 is 100% internally stock has no internal power adders and i even have a stock ECU ,with stock fuel tune,timing and rev limit .
i have yet to find another domestic car with similar dic to match me at the track.

i DO think the VQ is better than any v6 in its price range . and anyone who wants #'s i have some in my sig .


and yeah thats 100% untuned and iam still on tokicos and H&R's that i put on my car back in 1999 (200K +miles) and my car squats something fierce.

Pronto

Well, the title of the thread is comparing a domestic Chevy engine to an Nissan import. Your thread was an open invitation to challenge it. Duh.

Someone asked for other V6s that would compare and I listed my choices. The Nissan V6 family is a nice engine. I just don't want to go racing with it, especially in a Maxima, it's simply not worth the time and money. I can take my lowest choice of engine (109 block), upgrade it for less than $4k and run 10.teens in a full interior, a/c car and still drive it to and from the strip with the tunes blasting. It's done all the time with people that are in the know. Someday when I decide to further upgrade my stock unopened motor I'll do it. For now I don't want to cage my car.

As far as running times, put some up, don't be telling me what this will or that will run-pure Riceboy. Krismax has his to show, good for him. Putting a larger engine in a lighter car is always the easiest way to better numbers. Been that way since the begining regardless of brand of engine.

Broaner

iTrader: (10)

Jon, the aim of this thread was toward the most commonly referred to SBC. When I hear SBC I don't think LS in the least; and hope most don't because there have been huge advancements and they can't rightfully be lumped in with the boat anchors. Never did I make the comparison to the newer counterparts and evolutions. Those were the words of others. The original SBC became the LT; correct? They had very similar designs and materials. Then the bump to the LS's; correct? Still a fiar amount of similarities.

The VQ was a ground up design. The significant characteristic it shares with the VE/G is the # of cylinders. Besides that, its quite difficult to draw the family tree.

Pronto, the original comparison was very specific between two motors; not at all a import vs. domestic thread.

That said, I originally intended to spawn debate. So... continue unhindered.

Madsci

huh? When did a small block chevy turn into an inline motor?

jonmandude

iTrader: (1)

Broan, the SBC did not start with the LT. The LT was developed in the late 60's, and the original SBC was released in 1957. The LS, like the VQ, was a complete redesign of a pre-existing, similar displacement engine. I think the comparison is similar. You may not see it that way, just a different point of view. It is also an entirely different debate.

5thgenmax, The Small Block Chevy is a V8, it has never been anything else. The Windsor was a 351 Ford V8. The 351 W was only different to other 351's by cylinder head design. It was never developed beyond that, nor did it have the success comparable to what is being discussed here. The more successful, and developed, Ford V8's were the Cleveland and Boss engines

Pronto

The sbc was innovative being a production ohv configuration. It's no boat anchor. It's so common and has been modded to a point that performance parts are inexpensive and plentiful. It's easy to build an 500+ hp engine that will last. You can buy complete new engines from GM.
The VQ will NEVER have the variety of performance parts and longevity of stock production configuration. So the VQ is not sbc of the current v6s out there.
Actually the fairest comparison is the 3800 block. It's been around longer than any Nissan v6 (it was designed in the mid 60s) and has evolved from a rwd to a fwd configuration. It has plenty of performance parts including aftermarket heads, cams, stroker kits, intakes, headers, turbo kits, supercharger kits, nitrous kits and transmission choices.

The Max

Personally, I'm not a fan of neither the Chev nor Ford camps. My next project will involve a 426 wedge block Hemi.

Having said that, I'm having fun with my turbo VG but as fun as it is, it'll never replace the beastly power that only bigger displacement can give. See, crap on about the Nissan motors all you want but it's not just about the horsepower. If you want to talk hp, take a look at the motors that I truly hate ... rotaries. Sure, they've got the cheap horsepower going for them if you want to rip a quick 1/4 mile in them but throw in a passenger or two and feel the power disappear. Torque makes the horsepower and you'll only get that out of a bigger engine.

The VQ's are a nice engine, no denying but you can't be seriously comparing a Japanese V6 motor to an American V8 motor (which is what a small block Chev/Ford/Mopar is, no less than 8 cylinders) and tell me it's almost a level playing field in the least - and this is coming from an Australian!

No wonder drivers of rice burners like us get a bad rap ... it's the crap that you lot spew forth that shames those of us with some common sense.

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

Youre the one flapping your trap with absolute statements about how which blocks are better "in that order" and posting links to bored out blocks that are no longer stock in any way.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

The VQ series was/is certainly the modern workhorse motor for Nissan. Going in everything from a minivan to the next mighty GTR. Personally I think the guys that are bashing the VQ for not having a great amount of mods, needs to pay attention to what the Z guys are doing with the engine.

But IMHO, a closer analogy to a CSB would be the now discontinued RB series. That damned motor had TONS of crap available for it nad enjoyed a long evolutionary history. If the long I-6 was still viable from a package standpoint, I'm sure it would have been offered in aluminum too.

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

In the US, the VG first appeared in the 1984 300ZX.

Broaner

iTrader: (10)

To which I will repost my previous post.