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Pressure Brake bleeder How to........

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Old 09-10-2001, 12:02 PM
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I have recently built my own brake/clutch pressure bleeder for home use. I won't go into detail as to the what is the superior method of bleeding brakes here. If you are that curious do a search on the internet. This method is as good or is better than any other method out there. Plus I had my own requirements which are:
1) Easy one man operation.
2) Ease of operation.
3) Find a way of bleeding/flushing brake fluid and at the same time, REPLENISH THE FLUID AT THE MASTER CLYINDRE(this is the only method that can do this easily.

So the first step is to post the link that I copied my system from. This link will give you the basic idea on how it works and the costs that it will take to build your brake bleeder. It's really cheap. You should be able to build your own for about $30 or less. Here is the link: http://www.bmw-m.net/TechProc/bleeder.htm read it first before continuing. The following is just some modifications I did in order to make this work for a Nissan Maxima.
1) When I went to ACE Hardware, the model # is still good, but what you get is slightly different than the picture. But the "new" one is actually better. The way you attach the clear 1/4" ID tubing to the container is different. You no longer need to clamp it down w/ a hose clamp. The new fitting will work w/ the clear tubing just as well. (Caution. These types of fittings cannot be undone easy. The only way to undo the fitting is to cut off the tubing and push the cut piece through again)
2) Now here is the hard part(not that hard really). The generic cap they mention to fit over the master cylinder(ms) will not work for the 3-gen maxima(I don't know how the 4-5 gen+) ms caps are. The 3-gen cap is very large. I went to a junk yard and got a few to test. It seems late model 240sx, most maximas, and older 300z ms caps seem to work. The smaller Sentras etc.. have similar but SMALLER DIA. ms caps.
3) Now you need to modify your EXTRA ms cap to hold pressure. If you turn the cap upside down, you will see a white opaque color apparatus. You will need to "pop" this out. Use a screwdriver or pliers to pull it out. You don't really want to "pry" it out because you might damage the cap(black portion). Once you get this piece out, you will note that this piece is thin plastic. This will NOT hold pressure or seal very well as it is. You need to do two things. The first thing you have to do is reinforce the plastic lid so it doesn't "bow" when you pressurize the ms container. I used a thin piece of tin because it was easy to work with but in hindsight, I should have used something more beefy(but still thin like sheetmetal) Cut the reinforing piece the same diameter as the inside of the cap. It doesn't have to be real exact but as close as you can get it. Cut a hole in the middle of the piece so you can fit the hose fittings though it(as described in the article) Now you have to use something to SEAL THE CAP FOR PRESSURE. I went to Home Depot and used a 1/16" rubber sheet. I came in a 1ft square piece and it was a red color. Anthing could be used though. I thought about using a inner tube but I think it might be sligtly too thin. Again cut it to the diameter of the inside of the cap. Now this measurement should be AS GOOD AS YOU CAN GET IT. Because this is what will make the the cap AIRTIGHT. The sealing area between the cap and ms container is pretty thin. Again cut hole to accomodate the hose fittings. To further reinforce the cap and to help distribute the load when you tighten down the two hose fittings together, I found some washers on either side of the cap. One should go on top of the cap and the other should be placed in the inside of the cap. The inside washer should be very thin so you don't run out of threads on the hose fitting. Again as the article mentions, use some RTV or some sealant to seal the threads on the hose fittings before tightening them together.

Now attach(whatever length you decided to use. I used about 6ft but 3-4 feet would be better) the clear hose to the fitting on the ms cap and tighen the hose fitting down. You should be ready to roll! Test fit the ms cap and pump up the container(no fluid in container yet) about 5 pumps and check for air leaks. Repeat the test w/ 10-15 pumps. If all is well, the cap and holding pressure and your ready for the real thing.

It's a good idea to get rid of as much old fluid(if you are flushing the whole brake system) in the ms first. Use a turkey baster or whatever. Just be sure not to run it dry. The instructions are pretty clear in the article from here.

Notes:

1) Once you pump up the container(about 12-18 pumps) that is plenty for the whole operation. I checked the pressure by unscrewing the pressure vessel cap and the old fluid backed into the container! I had to pour out the container and put new stuff in. If you must do this, release the pressure REAL SLOWLY. This will also prevent brake fluid from spraying out of the container onto your paint(eek!)
2) Once you have everything hooked up and you loosen the caliper bleed screw, the fluid will NOT shoot out like the two-man method. Reason is when you step on the brake pedal you are appling 100's of lbs. of pressure vs only about 10-15psi from the container. It will kinda just drain out. ie.. 1/2 of a 10oz soda can would take about 1-2 mins to fill.
2) The article mentions that he modded the hose fitting so it extended down to the "max fill" level of the ms container. Now I just simply used TWO hose fittings(male - female). This allowed me to tighen them together and the hose fitting naturally extended down past the fill level. This also eliminated the chance at an overfilled ms container and spillage when you took the modified cap off.

3) You can buy a similar thing on the net that uses this exact same container but the cost is over $50. But it comes w/ the universal ms cap though.
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Old 09-10-2001, 12:05 PM
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got cliff notes?
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Old 09-10-2001, 02:05 PM
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Yeah. Instructions for idiots.
1) Read link
2) Read my post
How's that?

Originally posted by SprintMax
got cliff notes?
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Old 09-10-2001, 02:08 PM
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I would rather you just build one for me and send it to my shipping address free of charge.......that way I can be like the 90% of members and not have to think at all....
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Old 09-10-2001, 07:42 PM
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i'm thinking but i'm confused. the way this works is that it sends fluid, under pressure through the system and forces the old fluid out throught the bleeder screws?? you just pump and the old fluid flows out slowly?
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Old 09-10-2001, 08:07 PM
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Yes exactly. You put fluid into the container, hook up the pressure cap to the ms, then pump up the container. When you open the bleed screw, it just flows out.



Originally posted by dmbmaxima88
i'm thinking but i'm confused. the way this works is that it sends fluid, under pressure through the system and forces the old fluid out throught the bleeder screws?? you just pump and the old fluid flows out slowly?
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Old 09-11-2001, 04:56 AM
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Originally posted by Jeff92se
Yes exactly. You put fluid into the container, hook up the pressure cap to the ms, then pump up the container. When you open the bleed screw, it just flows out.



ok, new project this week.
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Old 10-23-2002, 11:54 PM
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Done yet?

Originally posted by dmbmaxima2k2


ok, new project this week.
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Old 10-24-2002, 02:49 AM
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Originally posted by Jeff92se
Done yet?

no
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Old 10-24-2002, 04:40 AM
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Originally posted by Jeff92se
Done yet?

lol, i have my little sister and she works for like a dollar an hour. i'm just like courtney sit in the car and push the brake up an ddown 5 times then hold it there, repeat like 1000 times then you can go play lol.
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Old 10-24-2002, 04:58 AM
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Originally posted by dmbmaxima2k2


lol, i have my little sister and she works for like a dollar an hour. i'm just like courtney sit in the car and push the brake up an ddown 5 times then hold it there, repeat like 1000 times then you can go play lol.
Running a sweat shop huh? I'm reporting you.
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Old 10-24-2002, 05:00 AM
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Originally posted by deezo
Running a sweat shop huh? I'm reporting you.
ya i make her help me box up intakes when iget backed up.
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Old 10-24-2002, 05:24 AM
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Vaccume bleeder from JC Whitney.

Cost 30 bucks.

Works on cars, motorcycles, any brake system, clutch-master/slave.

Comes with adaptors, check valve, hoses & a catch container for the fluid.

One man operation.

Great idea Jeff, but why bother building that contraption for the same price, there's off the shelve products made for the job?
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Old 10-24-2002, 08:03 AM
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Vacuum versions might suck air in from around the bleeder screw. Plus you still have to contend with making sure the master cylinder doesn't go dry(if that happens you have to start over again) This way, you set it up and just sit there instead of constantly checking the fluid level.

Originally posted by njmaxseltd
Vaccume bleeder from JC Whitney.

Cost 30 bucks.

Works on cars, motorcycles, any brake system, clutch-master/slave.

Comes with adaptors, check valve, hoses & a catch container for the fluid.

One man operation.

Great idea Jeff, but why bother building that contraption for the same price, there's off the shelve products made for the job?
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Old 10-24-2002, 08:24 AM
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Originally posted by Jeff92se
Vacuum versions might suck air in from around the bleeder screw. Plus you still have to contend with making sure the master cylinder doesn't go dry(if that happens you have to start over again) This way, you set it up and just sit there instead of constantly checking the fluid level.

I'll take that as a respectable answer! Your right about the air around the bleed screw. It just gravity feeds out after your done sucking. Also, you do need to keep an eye on the MC fluid level.

OK I can see the advantages of your system.
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Old 10-24-2002, 08:38 AM
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Originally posted by njmaxseltd

I'll take that as a respectable answer! Your right about the air around the bleed screw. It just gravity feeds out after your done sucking. Also, you do need to keep an eye on the MC fluid level.

OK I can see the advantages of your system.

Jeff made one for me....it's a great design and works well. Bleeding air out is now a breeze.


My next project is to make a master cylinder cap from a 4th gen and make another cap to interchange it with.
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Old 01-23-2003, 11:08 AM
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Done yet?

Originally posted by bill99gxe



Jeff made one for me....it's a great design and works well. Bleeding air out is now a breeze.


My next project is to make a master cylinder cap from a 4th gen and make another cap to interchange it with.
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Old 01-23-2003, 04:53 PM
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Originally posted by Jeff92se
Done yet?

funny thing that i was just about to post up how to bleed my brakes.. how can you tell that you have air in the system? well alot of people have driven my maxima and have said that they pedal is very mushy and there is alot of travel and very ligth pressure added to the pads, until i push the peddal farther down then the wheels lock up.

another quick question. why does one of the corner of the whell lock up??? in a panic situation i feel that my left front always lock up and the rest soon follow after? and no dont have abs.


heck if i can build this contraption how long does it take to bleed the system?


thanks mods for the answers and advice and any info..
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Old 01-23-2003, 04:58 PM
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Originally posted by crazy4maxima
how can you tell that you have air in the system? well alot of people have driven my maxima and have said that they pedal is very mushy and there is alot of travel and very ligth pressure added to the pads, until i push the peddal farther down then the wheels lock up.


Sounds like you have air in your system. Mushy is a good sign of it

another quick question. why does one of the corner of the whell lock up??? in a panic situation i feel that my left front always lock up and the rest soon follow after? and no dont have abs.


Well if your system has a bunch of air in it, it's hard to pinpoint it. There might be something wrong w/ your left front caliper or maybe there's more air in the other 3 calipers

heck if i can build this contraption how long does it take to bleed the system?
After you have everthing set up, maybe 1 hour
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Old 01-23-2003, 05:12 PM
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thanks man good quick answers..



how come in the nissan owners manual there is a proceedure called brake boost, or someother form like that.. what does that do? i have done it but the pedal still feels the same.

i have driven other maximas.. and let me say that when people drive mine they are scared shiet less.. and they think that they could stop my max with the brakes all mushy.


other owners have nice braking with just a nice little pressure on the pedal and the brakes grab.. wll i have to work like 100x more just to stop. when you bleed the brakes.. you just do it in one side? meaning that you take off the left driver side wheel off and bleed the brakes from that side?


any one wanna help me bleed my brakes.. i would do it but i dont want to f up my own brakes and then drive with out any..
jeff where do you like at?
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Old 01-23-2003, 05:26 PM
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Again, hard to tell. Fix the mushiness first and work from there. Your NY area right? Lots of guys there? I'm NW. Too far away.

Do a search on "brake bleeding" and check the stickies for the 3-gen repair information.

You need to sort out some issues before addressing the other stuff.
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Old 01-23-2003, 06:19 PM
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Originally posted by Jeff92se
Done yet?


Good news: I have the cap.


Bad news: It's about #5 on my list of things to do.......but it beats the #30 position it was in in October.
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Old 01-24-2003, 05:29 AM
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arghhh...it's too cold to do this now :'( I STILL need to put on my SS lines.
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Old 03-12-2003, 05:30 PM
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Jeff,


Ok. I'm trying to get the parts for this and make sure I understand what's happening.

First, 4th gen yellow master cylinder cap part number for the trolls:

46020-64J21

Some have orange and some have yellow so check your 95 to 99 Maxima for the current color. The color indicates who manufactured the master cylinder.

http://www.mindspring.com/~bill99gxe...0Gen%20Cap.jpg

As you can see in the pic above, the 4th gen cap is much smaller. I believe simply using a 3/8" x 1" washer can be used on the bottom of the top as an extra "brace" for the pressure. The top would still use a 1-3/16" diameter washer.

One concern is the raised circle right in the center of the cap on the 4th gen. I'm pretty sure the hole I have to drill is bigger than that anyway. It's probably not a big deal.



http://www.mindspring.com/~bill99gxe...0Gen%20Cap.jpg

The 4th gen cap on the bottom already has a rubber seal/surround in place. I'm thinking about taking it out and throwing a bunch of RTV silicone on it and putting it back on. In addition, there are no "threads" in the cap itself, simply ridges to "catch" on the brake fluid reservoir. 3rd gen caps have both threads and the "catches", meaning the 4th gen cap does not screw on, it just "catches on the ridges of the brake fluid reservoir. The seal looks like it would make firm contact with the actual plastic, but these modifications may affect that.


That may be a deal breaker, as when pressurized it may simply shoot out around the edges......

Here's a pic of the seal separated from the cap:

http://www.mindspring.com/~bill99gxe...from%20Cap.jpg

You can see that there is an "inner circle" on the cap about 1" in diameter. I think what I'll try RTVing the seal to the cap and using a 1" washer on the bottom.


Any other suggestions or comments?
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Old 03-12-2003, 10:31 PM
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Okay, I think I understand what's happening here. But how thick is the black rubber "liner"? And is it fairly flat? I assume it has a circular "ridge" to align itself with circular ridge on the inside of the cap correct? IF the rubber is fairly flat, you might be able to get rid of some of the steps that I had to go through w/ the 3-gen. See the 3-gen cap had a bunch of "guts" I had to pry out and it didn't have any rubber to help seal the cap.

Also the fact that the 4gen cap is smaller should also help with the sealing strength also. The reason why you should at least try to use the orignal black rubber is that you don't want to change the thickness too much. Reason is you don't have any threads to help tighten down the cap. You might get away with using something very thin to make the rubber slightly THICKER to assist with the seal.

I assume you could cut the rubber decently to run the brass fittings though correct? I would still use some type of wide washers on either side of the brass fittings to help with the strength.

Test it WITHOUT the brake fluid in it first. Pump it 10-15 times and see if you can hear any leaking. If you still have leakage, you may have to modify the cap/black seal. Or I've also seen some contraptions that actually hold down the cap with "braces" on either side of the cap. --T-- seriously back picture but you get the idea
| |
-----

"T" is the cap and you have a brace on eiter side that is tighten down by | | on either side. Like two batter tie downs or something.

Helps?
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Old 03-13-2003, 05:46 AM
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Originally posted by Jeff92se
Okay, I think I understand what's happening here. But how thick is the black rubber "liner"? And is it fairly flat? I assume it has a circular "ridge" to align itself with circular ridge on the inside of the cap correct? IF the rubber is fairly flat, you might be able to get rid of some of the steps that I had to go through w/ the 3-gen. See the 3-gen cap had a bunch of "guts" I had to pry out and it didn't have any rubber to help seal the cap.


You're perceptions are correct. The liner is a dab thinner than that rubber sheet you used. It is ridged on the outer edge where it meets up with the fluid reservoir. I haven't looked at my 3rd gen cap, but it's obviously has more "stuff" than the 4th gen caps (yet another 3rd gens are superior aspect. )

Also the fact that the 4gen cap is smaller should also help with the sealing strength also. The reason why you should at least try to use the orignal black rubber is that you don't want to change the thickness too much. Reason is you don't have any threads to help tighten down the cap. You might get away with using something very thin to make the rubber slightly THICKER to assist with the seal.


I'm planning on re-using the rubber seal. I'm pretty sure trying to re-make one with a rubber sheet would not work.

I assume you could cut the rubber decently to run the brass fittings though correct? I would still use some type of wide washers on either side of the brass fittings to help with the strength.


Yep, I will make a slight cirular cut in the seal to run the fittings through. And, yeah, I'll have to use a 1" dia washer underneath because of some ridges underneath the cap itself (I guess it helps to "seat" the seal and keep it in place). I may just use a 1" dia washer on the top as well so that the stress is distributed equally.

Test it WITHOUT the brake fluid in it first. Pump it 10-15 times and see if you can hear any leaking. If you still have leakage, you may have to modify the cap/black seal. Or I've also seen some contraptions that actually hold down the cap with "braces" on either side of the cap. --T-- seriously back picture but you get the idea
| |
-----

"T" is the cap and you have a brace on eiter side that is tighten down by | | on either side. Like two batter tie downs or something.



hehe....yeah, I learned that lesson after pouring brake fluid on Matt...

I'll dry test it first. I doubt any other bracing or sealing will be necessary if I can't get the seal inside to work properly.....




Helps?

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Old 03-20-2003, 01:36 PM
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Old 03-20-2003, 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by Jeff92se
Done yet?
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