edwardh1

My 99 keeps getting warped rotors (I drive easy). when I look at the forums there are LOTS of warped rotor topics. When I look at consumer reports magazine reader survey Maxima data on used cars the brake reliability tally is 98,99, 02, 03 - average
01, 04 worse than average
06 much worse.
Does corporate nissan not care about fixing it?
IS there one after market brand of rotors (not high performance) that will work and not warp UNDER NORMAL USE.????
Or is it some kind of caliper sticking problem??
My Toyotas and Honda have not had these problems ever in last 15 years(not starting a brand war- looking for a solution)

njmaxseltd

iTrader: (19)

I've never had my rotors on my 99 "warp" on me. Brakes have been smooth, every combo I've had over 145,000 miles have been smooth until the end of their life.

Here's some good reading material. I agree 100% on what this article talks about.

The "Warped" Brake Disc and Other Myths of the Braking System
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...rakedisk.shtml

L.M.L.

There is a few different scenarios of what's going wrong with front brake rotors. It also has been debated that the oem brake pads contribute to the problem, but I have my own reasons to doubt that.

njmaxseltd

iTrader: (19)

Brake pad material transfer is exactly what we feel as brake judder or what some people call, warped rotors. It's all caused by the pads.

edwardh1

So why dont the Toyota and Hondas have as many problems?- they score far better than the Max. They do something different- either bigger rotors, different materials on the rotors and pads, different wheel design that increases cooling, or prevents water splash etc. Our Maxima forums are full of the warping issues as are the car space forums- many posts per page on our maximas brake rotors) (do a search there and you get pages and pages of 10
. and the warping is repetitive like every 10 or 15 ooo miles.

Whats the solution? I have read the stop tech pads thing and if true why is it mainly on maximas or why is it on MY maxima? and not on my past 3 Hondas (Civics) or 2 Toyotas Camry and Highlander? whats different? Nissan also keeps issuing tsbs telling the dealers to turn the rotors. My buddy's new G35 this year on day one had shaking rotors, dealer turned them

njmaxseltd

iTrader: (19)

It's not only Maximas. The biggest complaint our shop gets about brakes is vibrations. We work mostly on Porsche, Mercedes and BMW. Same thing happens to them. Some customers want stock replacement brakes, some upgrade the system. We use Wagner Thermal Quiet pads as "stock" replacement pads and have had no complaints about vibrating brakes, until they are worn out. Ceramic pads seem to resist pad material transfer, but eat rotors and have a bit less initial grab. They also don't dust much at all. The Vett guys love them, keeps their wheels clean and their brakes are big enough that they really don't feel the loss of initial bit at all.

My previous cars - 3 Honda's. Civic, Accord and Prelude. Both the Civic and the Accord had vibrating brakes every 10 or 15K. The Prelude went almost 100K on the original brakes and remained smooth until the end. I tossed the OEM pads off my Maxima in about 30K miles because of the start of brake judder. A simple resurface and new set of Metal Masters gave me smooth brakes for about 60K miles.

It's more then just the pads, as the article says, how you bed them in, how you stop ect. all play a role on pad material transfer. There are ways to avoid that from happening. Understanding what and how pad material transfer happens will help you use your brakes in a way that can help you avoid that from happening. Example - If I come to a hard sudden stop, I don't keep my foot planted on the brake, I let off slightly, then let the car roll slowly so the pads are not sitting in one spot on a very hot rotor. This helps stop pad material transfer from happening, but how many people actually do this?

In the real world, the light at the bottom of the hill turns red.
You stop 2800 lbs from 45 MPH going down hill at the red light.
You keep your foot on the brake pedal at the same pressure you stopped the car.
What do you think is happening?

edwardh1

agree that other cars do it too- consumer reports reader survey data black flags 99-06 Maximas for brake problems compared to the average, our forums have lots of brake shake posts-
-thats my point-
my experience/opinion is that the MAximas have some small defect in them that we have not identified that causes them to be more prone to this problem (bad caliper piston tolerances, or slider pin tolerances? bad/wrong pad materials? - more likely bad rotor size design or material?.
the vette and porsche guys drive harder than my wife- I live in flat country, no teenagers, no trailer pulling. And I drive and stop slowly.

Appreciate your comments on stopping - but you will agree hard to get that info to the avearge driver say a mom with a kid in the back late for work etc etc (not my car situation)

Pearl93VE

iTrader: (14)

On my old car (1994 GXE Maxima) I always had no problem with the brakes, what-so-ever, I am a more aggressive driver, but in no way dangerous or obnoxious, just not as timid. When I sold my car to my cousin, he was a new driver. He rode the brakes a lot, was on them when he didn't need to be, and rarely, if ever hit them hard to come to a fast stop. A few months had gone by and there was the biggest concave near the edge of the rotor I had ever seen, it looked like a sloping canyon.

L.M.L.

not always.

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

most of the time it's the pads. all of my experience with the nissan stuff seems to show pads, with the occasional problem of extremely soft iron with the OEM rotors.

why? I've had literally dozens of Maximas from '87 to '07 come to me for brake jobs. every single one of the 00 and newer ones that complained of warped rotors still had the OEM pads on them.
for most of them I would turn the rotors and put some Wagner or Raybestos pads on and send them on their way. only one ever came back with a vibration problem ('04), and it was because his axle nut had come loose and the wheel bearing had failed... wheel bearings seem to be another very common problem on the 6th gens. fixed the wheel bearing and the problem was solved.

So, moral of the story is throw the OEM pads away. buy some quality aftermarket pads and see how they do. if you still have problems, replace the rotors with quality aftermarket ones and scuff the glaze off the aftermarket pads and reinstall them. should be good to go.

and no, the Maxima's brakes are not undersized- with the exception of maybe the 00-01 models... the rest are all MORE than adequately sized- they just have crap pads on them and the OEM rotors are made of VERY soft iron. with quality parts, you shouldn't have these problems.

edwardh1

IS most of the trouble on the front?

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

yes, front.

talisman311

I've been running on autozone blanks for the last 80-90k miles and haven't had any signs of warped rotors. I make sure the lugs are torqued to 80 ft lbs. I've PFC carbon metallic pads most of time, but they don't bite great until they're hot.

My 2 cents..

edwardh1

Matt93: you think the rotors are warped by bad OE pads?

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

Did you not read what was said above? the rotors don't get warped. they get uneven pad deposits because the pads are crap.

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

Any way to remove this buildup without turning or replacing the rotor?

Wire wheel maybe?

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

use a set of really aggressive track pads for about 20 miles.
then put some good street pads back on.

Crusher103

iTrader: (10)

my auto is constantly warping or doing something with those brakes, but im not complaining I buy my rotors for $27 a piece Advanced Auto

but I have noticed that, its either the pads or the rotors and I think its the rotors for the most part, the auto is not driven hard at all but it still manages to warp the rotors, its not really bad but U can feel a slight vibration when U press the brakes at a lower speeds, aww I remember on the MT one of the rotors was so bad I thought the brakes were grinding, I got under the car to the them I found the pad was practically new

Scottwax

iTrader: (8)

I had all sorts of warpage problems with my old Accord. Finally, I had my mechanic turn them, then he drilled 4 hours in the rotors, 90 degrees apart and guaranteed they'd never warp again. They never did in the last 50,000 miles I had that car.

Scottwax

iTrader: (8)

Agreed, at least with regards to my '02. Much better (more powerful) than my Accord or 626 brakes were. Maybe not quite "Hand of God" brakes but they are pretty damn stout.

NisTech

unevean pad transfer or not unevean wheel torquing ie with impact wrench no torque stick or by hand no torque wrench will also cause warped rotors.
Whenever i turn warped rotors i can usually see the sideways movement to the cutting blade before i cut. So pad transfer???? Not necessary always and yes i've read the articles.
Why ppl with toyotas don't complain? Because ppl that buy toyota are considered more defensive drivers as opposed to car enthusiasts in Nissan buyers or german

Crusher103

iTrader: (10)

Look at that Toyotas coming out these days can U really complain about anything, I drove a 01 Avalon omg im not even going to go into details but the brake peddle was mush and had slack and it was just serviced

NisTech

well Avalon is not a performance vehicle or anything. You can even road test an 06 or older Camry and brakes are still mushy. I even bled them but that's how they perform. However the newer Camry are a lot different.

edwardh1

So, in summary:
ignoring bad driving, improper break in , too tight lug nuts, car wash cold water, hitting puddles, etc which should be equally distributed among all car brands and should not cause 98 to 06 Maxima brakes to shake more than any other brand (as shown in the counsumer reports magazine reader survey statistics which show the Max at Average, worse than avearge, and much worse than average depending on the year) ,
the cause most people think is BAD OEM pads that cause transfer to the rotor? The oem pads either transfer material too much to the rotor or somehow cause the front rotors to warp too much? Someone mentioned "soft iron rotors? what that?"
Is that a good summary?

Crusher103

iTrader: (10)

I guess U can say that, I think we just have brakes that are not up to the task of bring our cars back down to speed in a performance situation, Ive cooked mine on numerous occasions, but in a RL situation when U need them they are there, saved me a couple of times, Ive locked up once before ABS kicked in

edwardh1

This from nistech posted above says its not pads
"Whenever i turn warped rotors i can usually see the sideways movement to the cutting blade before i cut. So pad transfer???? Not necessary always and yes i've read the articles."

joebangaa

iTrader: (3)

I think the OP is putting way too much stock into consumer reports. I'm at nearly 70K miles with factory rotors and my second set of OEM front pads (replaced originals at 35K or so) and I am only now experiencing a VERY SLIGHT vibration under extremely hard braking...and as anyone else can tell you, it's because the pads need to be changed, not because of any defect or design flaw in the braking components of our cars.

As for mentioning other brands, have you even driven any modern (2000+) Honda the size of an Accord or larger? Their brakes are horrific. Whether you want to talk about an Accord, a TL/CL, an Odyssey, or a freakin Passport, they all employ undersized brakes for their respective curb weights. Their brakes have to undergo repeated servicing unlike anything we've experienced. Unless your foot is CONSTANTLY on the accelerator or brake pedal, it's difficult for anyone online to really tell you what's wrong.

edwardh1

Thanks Joe- sounds like your vote is for "we don't know the cause"

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

as if it hasn't been said enough here....it's the pads, not the rotors. Get some good-quality pads like Hawk HPS and you can use whatever cheapo rotors you want and be fine, and have reasonably good braking and no shimmy.....

OEM pads for alot of different car makes have the problem that the priorities are decent braking, quiet operation, and very low dust. Unfortunately, many don't have the heat-handling capacity of higher performance pads (that dust more and may be noisier)...so the pad material deposits/glazes itself onto the rotor and you get the shimmy.....

vqmaxman

I am sure everyone knows that there are lot's of OEM parts that the car manufactures sometimes wants to go cheap on, resulting in a bad brake pads and cheap quality and some are not good at working in high heating, The result Is the brake pad either crumbles or It flakes up in dust and sometimes Is caked on depending on the driving styles. I personally think that It's the cheap brake pads that get locked up on to the rotors when your slaming your brakes on so you don't hit someone or your not going to make It at the intersection and the light turned red and you slam your brakes than the rotors get hot then the brake pads are hot and are going to stick to the rotors and then you got yourself a warped rotors. The force that the pistons close in to the brake pads will really smother the pads out.

vqmaxman

Is It the front or the back's either way who ever Is installing the brakes Is probally not installing them right and not using the anticizing lubericant or the brakes are not seated in right or the calipers are bad.

L.M.L.

ok, oem pads suck, no point to argue about that... now, this scenario: after a few acceleration-braking cycles, the front brakes start to vibrate/grind badly, a few minutes of cooling them down (say, regular driving) - and all symptoms are gone, all good. Any comments?

spddracer

iTrader: (3)

Have the rotors turned "ON CAR" this will make them perfectly true to the hub.
This will make your vibrations go away for a much longer time.

As the rotor turns (normal driving) if there is any variance in the hub/rotor the pads will touch the high spot every time the rotor goes around. This will ware that spot on the rotor and make the brakes vibrate, The more you drive (miles) the worse it will get.

Turning rotors off the car on a lathe will never make them perfect when you put them back on the car and unless your hubs a perfectly true (rare) the vibration will come back in time.

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

This is an urban legend imo.....when rotors are turned on the car, the hubs are not in a weighted position anyhow, so any lack of truity will not be shown, or at least not to the extent that it would be on the car weighted.

I always take my rotors (off the car) in to get turned when I change pads. And with all my different caliper/rotor setups (and several different hubs/bearings) I have not had any vibration issues, except for when using OEM or OEM-replacement pads.

jollibee jiant

iTrader: (1)

It's all about the bedding!!!!!!!!!

edwardh1

Nissan does have more of a problem than some other brands tho in my opinion- Consumer reports mails a survey to about 1.3 million readers and asks them "what broke on your 2002-2007 car", and at what mileage. They compile the results and rate them as better than average, slightly better, average, slightly worse or much worse than average .
Nissans Brakes rating MUCH worse than average are 05 350z; 04,05,06 armada; 06 maxima; 06 murano; 05 pathfinder; 02 3 4 and 04, 05 quest; 04 05 06 titan. Slightly worse than average were 04 350; 02 04 altima,04 maxima, 07 murano,04 pathfinder,06 sentra. subaru honda and toyota seem on the whole to be better. Its like Nissan needs to spend some more money in the brake area. Maybe when Ghosen took over in 99 they laid off the brake people.

NisTech

I put cheap rotors on cars like $15 ones and the car had a vibration, like an unballanced tire kind of thing, more axial. That is cause Korean rotors or wherever the heck they make them are not ballanced. If you look at good rotors they will have at the edge a little half moon kind of shaving where they removed material to ballance them.

NisTech

We had vehicles where we turned rotors then they had vibration then we replaced them and still a little there and then we used a dial indicator and we actually found that it had a high spot on the hub so we turned the rotor 180 degrees and was within spec, or much better.
Just adding from what i've seen not trying to say you are wrong or anything with 2 posts in a row lol

But of course this stuff is extremly rare and perhaps only with this manufacturer.
And why they complained about the Armada? Because you get a vibration at 24K kms. Then they made you change pads rotors slider pins everything with updated parts.
And the quest is bad too. Not to mention on sunroofs leaking all the electronics that fail to work and all the sliding doors creaking and every single customer complain and come back 5 times till it's fixed and Nissan N N America having 3 different fixes for it. Please give me a Ford and i'll take it!

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

consider yourself unlucky then. I sell literally hundreds of cheap rotors per month and the comeback rate is less than .001% and that is not an exaggeration. Years ago there were all kinds of issues with cheap rotors, but these days they are just as good as more expensive ones.

edwardh1

Leaving my subdivision today there was a 99 i 30 touring behind me. I stopped and asked him if he ever had brake problems with it- he said yes- rotors every 30,000 miles.