Decisions, Decisions...I'm trying to decide between a 2K2 6-Speed or a BMW 330 sedan or 325 wagon (I like the extra space). The military moved me to Holland right when the 5th Generations came out, so I am not real familiar with them. But, since I am in the military, BMW offers about a $4000.00 discount off of US prices on their cars, which I can buy here and bring back to the states. However, I still like the Maxima and have a few questions about the 2K2 before I run off to buy a BMW. Hopefully you 5th generation owners (especially you 2K2 owners) can answer a few questions for me (sorry for my ignorance on the 5th generations).

1. How does the 6th speed shifter feel?
2. Has the paint improved any on the 5th generations? Looking at the poll on the 5th Generation board, I assume it hasn't. For those of you who have white 5th generations, how is your paint?
3. For those of you who have the Meridian (heated seat) package, where is the seat heated? Is it only where your butt sits, or in the back area too? How does the heated steering wheel work?
4. Have the cup holders improved from the 4th generation to the 5th Generation? (E.g., can you put a big cup/bottle in them)
5. Is the trunk that much larger in the 5th gen versus the 4th gen?
6. The steering in my 97 GXE feels overboosted (light). Does the 2K2 SE feel heavier or is it still light?
7. Are there any published performance specs on the 2K2 SE 6-Speeds? I have seen some very encouraging numbers here on the forum, but have not seen anything published yet.
8. How is the torque steer with the 3.5?
9. Does the height adjustable center console intefere with your elbow when you are shifting?
10. For those of you that have moved from a 4th generation 5 speed (like EMax), how much stronger does the 2K2 six-speed actually feel?
11. How do the 2K2's (or 5th generation SE's) handle compared to the 4th generations?
12. And finally, the important question...does the 6-Speed have a speed limiter? And if it doesn't, has anybody tested the top speed out?

Again, I apologize for my ignorance of the 5th generations, but I left the states right when they were introduced. I like the BMWs a lot, but after test driving them I am not so impressed that I am ready to make the swap. Indeed, they are nicer cars but not that much better, when I compare value to price. I would appreciate anybodie's comments to any of my questions. I will be coming back to the states in early March for a few weeks to Montogomery, Alabama, so if anybody knows a good dealer in that area, please let me know. Thanks for your help. Oh yea, I just called the dealer in Texas I bought my 97 from and they are mailing me a brochure, which I am sure will answer some of my questions. Oh, they offered me any Maxima on the lot for 2% over invoice within the first three minues I was on the phone with them. The dealership is Ancira Nissan in San Antonio.

 

Get 330

 

Well to start off, you are talking about 2 completely different cars there. The Maxima is a nice big sedan with a lot of room both in the front and back, and the 3-series BMW is a small sports sedan with not much room except for maybe 4 kids. My friend has a 330i so I'm always riding in it and I've driven it a lot so I can tell you whatever you want to know about it. If you're looking for straight out performance and you want to have some real grip on the road etc, then the 330 is the answer. But also like you were saying you're comparing value to price. The Maxima will obviously give you a lot of things which a 3-series beemer won't come close to, all the goodies that come with having a big sedan. As far as speed, I think both the 330i's and 2k2 6spd Max's have similar 0-60 times (my friend's auto 330i does low 6's stock). I know some of the 2k2 guys on here are doing high 5's with just a few little mods. But then again even a modded Maxima will never handle as good as a STOCK 330i, it might come close but lets keep in mind that the BMW's do have the rwd with almost 50/50 weight distribution while we have our infamous fwd.

So basically it all depends on what you are looking for in a car, if you just want to have a sports car with 4 doors and don't care about the people in the backseat sitting all tight and squeezed and don't care about having a roomy trunk etc, then don't even think twice and just get the 330 bimmer. OR if you want to have the same type of speed, don't mind sacrificing a little bit of handling and all in return of having a big sedan with nice luxury and performance potential, then go with the maxima. If I was in your place I wouldn't really have problems deciding between those 2 cars, because as I explained it's 2 different types of cars that you are talking about. Now if you asked whether you should get a maxima or a 5-series bmw, then obviously everyone would (or should) tell you to just close your eyes and get the 5-series. But you're talking about a itty bitty small 3-series and the big a** family sedan Maxima.

Those are just my views on your situation. I can't answer those 5th gen specific questions that you asked because I own a 4th gen (97 SE) myself so I wouldn't be able to give any specific details about the 5th gens. But once again in the end:

Speed/Handling/Straight-up raw sports performance= BMW

Speed/not the best but OK handling/more family-ish/comfort of big sedan=Maxima

Sorry for the long post but since I have a lot of experience with both the maxima and the 330 that you wanna get, I couldn't help but answer in detail, hope it helps . And I'm sure all these other guys will answer all your 5th gen questions.

 

SHO,

Wow, you've read my mind!!! All the issues you have brought up are exactly what I am wrestling with at the current time. I do like the five series, but they tend to get a bit pricey when you start adding some options. I'm hoping I get some inputs from the 5th Generation owners to help me decide if the extra price for better handling of the 330 is worth it or not.

 

the max is not really a "big comfy family sedan"....then whats the crown vic and caprice?

 

Autobahn Max: I'm in your same shoes. I'm in the USAF and going back to Ramstein in May. Bimmers are priced right and tax free, but there are other issues.
1) To register the Bimmer here in the U.S., you'll have to pay sales tax on the vehicle's value. 8% on a $30k car is $2400. Plus the government will not ship it for you(unless you can find a loophole). The BMW salesman outside of Ramstein quoted me $800 to ship the car to any major port. So that is around $3200+ to get it road worthy.
2) The warranty in Europe is 1 year and 3 in the U.S.
3) There is always some type of wait associated with purchasing them. 2 months seems to be the average.

Personally I love the new 3, but going smaller (from my 96) seems like reverse engineering. If you have time, why not wait for the upcoming 5 series? Pricing for the 530i is around $35k decently loaded. I can't see the new car being much more expensive.

All in all, any bimmer at the european price is a steal. The 2k2 Max and its poor resale, paint, rear beam and upcoming replacement make it a poor choice for my money. On the other hand, driving a somewhat exotic Maxima in the land of Bimmers, Benzes, and Audis is similar to driving a bimmer amongst Fords, Toyotas and Nissans. But that was my experience with driving my Maxima in Germany back in 97-98.

Oh yeah, didja notice the delivered price of $41k for the M3? Slap on 4 doors and I'm game(who needs all this space anyway?).

Cheers
Zam

 

I would shoot for $550 below invoice plus $1000 cash back.

I don't believe you can compare a 330 to the 2k2 Maxima. To even consider the 330 means you care about looks, prestige, driving feel, resale value. The Maxima does not have any of those elements. The biggie is that you have the means to obtain it, ie 39-41k, which is what, about 17k more than the Maxima? The Maxima would have a higher top speed though since the 330 would be limited to 130.

Maybe you should drive the A4 3.0, baby Jaguar, baby Benz, Acura CL or TL Type S. Speaking of which I was getting something out of my car and this Minister pulls up in one wanting to hand me something to go to his church? Wassup with that?

 

1. How does the 6th speed shifter feel?
Fine, course it's my first standard so I have no idea
2. Has the paint improved any on the 5th generations? Looking at the poll on the 5th Generation board, I assume it hasn't. For those of you who have white 5th generations, how is your paint?
2 chips for 2,000 miles
3. For those of you who have the Meridian (heated seat) package, where is the seat heated? Is it only where your butt sits, or in the back area too? How does the heated steering wheel work?
You have the option of either back, or back and butt. Steering wheel heater you have to turn off quick due to excesive heat.
4. Have the cup holders improved from the 4th generation to the 5th Generation? (E.g., can you put a big cup/bottle in them)
You can hold a 1 liter in the cupholder safely.
5. Is the trunk that much larger in the 5th gen versus the 4th gen?
Car overall is bigger than 4th gen
6. The steering in my 97 GXE feels overboosted (light). Does the 2K2 SE feel heavier or is it still light?
Still pretty light. Don't know about 4th gens.
7. Are there any published performance specs on the 2K2 SE 6-Speeds? I have seen some very encouraging numbers here on the forum, but have not seen anything published yet.
[B]Mid to low 14's in stock style. 5.8, 5.9sec 0 to 60 [/B
8. How is the torque steer with the 3.5?
IMO I don't think that bad. Of course you get no traction with stock rubbers.
9. Does the height adjustable center console intefere with your elbow when you are shifting?
No, just a liter drink
11. How do the 2K2's (or 5th generation SE's) handle compared to the 4th generations?
Don't know, sorry
12. And finally, the important question...does the 6-Speed have a speed limiter? And if it doesn't, has anybody tested the top speed out?
Haven't found it yet. Hit 130 pretty easily but backed down.

 

I am not comparing the 330 to a Maxima. The Maxima is not a BMW, but it is a value considering its performance. They are merely two cars I am considering. The intent of the post was to get some questions answered about the 2002 SE 6-Speed so I can make an informed decision.
As far as for the 39-41K for a 330, my price would be from $30,600 and up, depending on options (about $34,000 to suit me with sport package, Xenons, etc.) But then again I have to compare this to the 23-25K I can spend on the Maxima, with a six speed (something I have wanted for years). However, since I am cheap, the Maxima at $25,000 invoice for how I want it looks like a good deal, especially when Nissan starts offering bigger incentives (more than the current $1,000) towards the end of the year, as I imagine they will.

The 330s here in Europe are limited to 155 mph.

And as far as resale goes on the Maxima, it is bad if you look at it at from the sticker price, but considering I paid less than $18,000 for my Maxima in 1997, I don't consider the resale too bad (10,500 trade in value per KBB).

Thanks for everybody who has given me the answers on the questions I asked, and I look forward to other's answers also.

 

There is no comparison, the purpose of each car is altogether different. Value is in the eyes of the beholder, and the general public doesn't seem to see value in Maximas unless heavily incented, at least for 5 solid model years now.

If you bring a car from Europe back to the US, it will be a US car limited to 130 mph. The gray market import conversions didn't fare too well here, because the cars that come back must meet DOT and EPA. Euro delivery for the US market is a US car. As I understand it the benefit is that you can drive your car on your visit to Europe. But one doesn't need a car in Europe and fuel is expensive anyway as I found out on my trips to Sweden

 

To compare the 4th gen steering to the 5th, the 5th has much stiffer steering than the 4th, and is much more stable on the highway at higher speeds unlike the touchyness of the 4th gen was.

 

huge comfy sedan.

 

Oh god he's back!

 

BMW in a heatbeat(330I). These German cars are designed w/ the European roads/freeways in mind. They are also very,very crashworthy cars(for safety sake).

It would seem that the discounted price on the BMW might come close to maybe an inflated(?) price of a Maxima in Europe?

On another note: Why even consider the maxima as your Japanese choice. Europe gets so many better choices even in this arena? Ie... Skyline? Subaru B4 280hp AWD sedan. et...

 

The shifter is a little notchy going into 3rd at first, you will get use to it quick. Other then that I like the feel of the shifter.

Quote:

2. Has the paint improved any on the 5th generations? Looking at the poll on the 5th Generation board, I assume it hasn't. For those of you who have white 5th generations, how is your paint?

To soon to really say for me, so far so good.

Quote:

3. For those of you who have the Meridian (heated seat) package, where is the seat heated? Is it only where your butt sits, or in the back area too? How does the heated steering wheel work?

The seats are for your back and butt, there is a high and low setting too. Theres a switch on the dash for the heated steering wheel, it comes on for 15 minutes and then shut's off for about 5, ditto.

Quote:

4. Have the cup holders improved from the 4th generation to the 5th Generation? (E.g., can you put a big cup/bottle in them)

The cup holders are much better! On 2002 they were nicely re-designed too.

Quote:

5. Is the trunk that much larger in the 5th gen versus the 4th gen?

Trunk space is about the same, there is however a slitely wider entrance to load things into the trunk on the 02.

Quote:

6. The steering in my 97 GXE feels overboosted (light). Does the 2K2 SE feel heavier or is it still light?

My 02's steering wheel is much stiffer then my 95's, over all the feeling is much nicer.

Quote:

7. Are there any published performance specs on the 2K2 SE 6-Speeds? I have seen some very encouraging numbers here on the forum, but have not seen anything published yet.

There have been no real maxima time publications yet{why? I dont know}
I did 0-60 = 5.96 stock and with just a intake I did 5.75 0-60.

Quote:

8. How is the torque steer with the 3.5?

TQ steer is definatly there if you floor it from a dead stop with the wheels turned, other then that it's not a problem. Buy the HLSD equipped 6spd and the TQ steer should not be present.

Quote:

9. Does the height adjustable center console intefere with your elbow when you are shifting?

It get's in the way a little bit, I only put the armrest up when I am basicaly cruising. You can still shift when it is up but it is a little annoying.

Quote:

10. For those of you that have moved from a 4th generation 5 speed (like EMax), how much stronger does the 2K2 six-speed actually feel?

Stock for stock my 6spd feels a LOT nicer, there is way more power every where. In day to day driving my 6spd max has way more TQ down low which makes acceleration effortless. BIG improvment over all.

Quote:

11. How do the 2K2's (or 5th generation SE's) handle compared to the 4th generations?

My 02 feels a lot more stable then my 95. The stiffer steering, larger FSB, remodeled rear beam and 17's make a very nice improvement in body lean and over all control. Theres no more wably feeling like in my 95.

Quote:

12. And finally, the important question...does the 6-Speed have a speed limiter? And if it doesn't, has anybody tested the top speed out?

I don't think it has a limeter, the fastest I have gone so far is about 115 MPH{just cruising }. The estimated top speed is about 154 MPH{although a few will argue}.

Over all the 2002 6spd max is a big improvement in every way over the 4th IMHO.

 

I'll be moving back to the states in May of 2003, so I'll need to buy a car that is DOT and EPA approved. I really like the 330, but according to some, I still like the "big family sedan" thing the Maxima has going on.

 

I'm about 80% sure you can buy usa dot legal bmws in Germany. I know my cousins were deciding to custom order a bmw direct for ultimate destination USA. You order one, go to Germany and test drive it and then bmw arranges it to be sent back. Apparently this is still cheaper than just going to the BMW dealer in the usa. So if you order an usa spec one, drive it in Europe and then have it shipped to the usa, you should enjoy some good resale value(relative to your purchase price) on that bmw if you ever decide to sell it.

 

that's the europe delivery program by bmw for usa buyer, which is prolly different from his military buying deal. i will try to do that with my next bmw, you save money on car price to pay for the trip, u get to see the factory in munich and get some driving lessons, and break the car in on autobhan. sounds great.

 

I can purchase a U.S. spec BMW throught Military Car Sales at a good discount. I just pick the car up through the U.S. military car sales place.

However, I wish somebody could or would answer some of the questions I posed about the 2K2 Maximas. As I said, I'm cheap, so the Maxima looks really good to me, especially considering I need to buy a house when I get back to the states.

 

get a max, use the extra $$ on a better house

 

BMW all the way. What would you prefer? A rear wheel drive car, that has 101+ accessories and modifications available, body kit from the factory, almost non existent nose overhang, 50/50 weight distrubution, crash tests a F alot better, handles alot better, independent rear suspension, has MUCH better resale value, has quality materials, or would you rather be stuck with a low resale depreciating car, thats FWD, nose heavy, nobody supports in the aftermarket, with a cheap rattly interior, minivan beam rear suspension, lousy crash test results?

ALso what sounds better? I drive a nissan. I drive a BMW. Granted the maxima might be faster in a straight line now, but if speed is what you want, get yourself a used corvette or new F body before they go bye bye.

As for getting a DOT approved BMW overseas and shipping it, infact my friends dad just did that. He went to germany, test drove the BMW he was going to buy (2002 540i) on the autobahn and had it shipped here. It was a USA spec car, with the USA sized license tag holder and headlights already on the car. The transferring and shipment was completely painless as well.

 

If you can get it at a good price the 330 is a better car, but its really small...if your a family man go for the maxima...but 330 would be more fun to drive unless you mod your maxima....personally I would choose 330....if it were between 325 and 02 maxima i would choose maxima though...also ericdwong 5th generation maximas have a pretty good interior

 

Da Max!

 

well, honestly speaking, i think 330 is an overall better than maxima period. but maxima is cheaper so value wise it's better. if i were you, and i can get discount off the 330, and push the price close to a maxima, it's worthy to get the 330 and lose some options. in another words, get a not fully loaded 330 at discount instead of full loaded max at no discount.

 

Well once again the advantages of having a BMW over a Maxima are obvious, the list can go on and on. But like I said in my other post, we're talking about an itty bitty small 3-series here, compared to the Maxima. If I was a family man, the only BMW I would consider woud be a 5-series. It also depends on what you have already, if you already have a nice family car and want to get something else that is fun to drive and offers cutting-edge performance, THEN 330i it is. There isn't really anything complicated here, it's either one or the other. Now if you can scoop up the money for a 5-series somehow...

 

That's very good advice. It's hard to justify spending 40k on a car, I figure one should earn at least 3x annually what they spend on a car. That makes Maxima pretty easy, but get into the 30's and it's tougher. They say Americans are "charging" ie Visa etc. their way out of this recession. Not good.....

 

5 series is not much bigger at all. it's rated at compact size in case u didn't know.
and, i honestly don't understand all the talk about the size difference, if he is actually consider the 3 series, then obviously he can live with the size, otherwise why it's even in discussion??
i mean, if u let me choose between a ferrari and a minivan as my only car, and i have family and kids, i will have to take the van. but between 3 series and maxima, i don't think the difference is that drastic so you can suffer a little for the better car.

 

few thousands? it doesn't make a noticeable difference at all in house purchasing, unless you are talking about the 30k houses.

 

Are you serious? If you're getting a house that costs 300,000, which is gonna be a tiny house in alot of areas, an extra 17k down doesn't hurt at all. And it's also the principle of spending on the house instead of a car.

 

17k? sure. i was not aware that we are speaking that kinda figure. i didn't think a 330 is 17k more than a maxima, with his discount and all.

 

Can't go wrong with a BMW.

 

I agree with Andy that you can't go wrong with the BMW if it's a M5 or M3!

 

Did you ever read my reply? I think you skiped over it becuase we both posted at the same time.

 

Well, here are the questions I can answer, based on 2 test drives with an 02 six speed and on 1 test drive with an auto SE.

Originally posted by Autobahn Max


1. How does the 6th speed shifter feel?

A: I had difficulty finding 6th, after a few attempts, it kept getting into 4th. I'm sure this is because I'm not used to it. The shifts felt kind of dull/ dead, it wasn't a positive, smooth throw like in a Honda. I'm hoping that this will loosen up a bit with break in.

2. Has the paint improved any on the 5th generations? Looking at the poll on the 5th Generation board, I assume it hasn't. For those of you who have white 5th generations, how is your paint?

A: I would have preferred black paint with tints, because it looks ominous and "Dr. Evil" like, but based on the experiences posted on this board, I got scared and ordered the silver. I did see a demo black Max from 2001 and the front was peppered with with chipped pits. It had pretty low mileage too, I would say less than 10,000 miles. Looking at the cars in the show room, the paint didn't give off that shiny "wow" lustre quality like some cars have at auto shows, the paint finish was just acceptable, nothing to write home about.

3. For those of you who have the Meridian (heated seat) package, where is the seat heated? Is it only where your butt sits, or in the back area too? How does the heated steering wheel work?

A: The heated steering wheel played a huge part of what sold me. What a great feeling!! I live in Canada, and I'm REALLY REALLY looking forward to this when it's even slightly cold, it'll be the first thing that gets turned on. Next it'll be the heated seats. (I got leather, wouldn't get this without heated seats!) Couldn't comment on back of the seats, didn't notice because I had a thick jacket on, the times I drove it. If it has it like some say, I'll be looking forward to that too!

4. Have the cup holders improved from the 4th generation to the 5th Generation? (E.g., can you put a big cup/bottle in them)

A: Can't really comment.

5. Is the trunk that much larger in the 5th gen versus the 4th gen?

A: Can't really comment.

6. The steering in my 97 GXE feels overboosted (light). Does the 2K2 SE feel heavier or is it still light?

A: It was light to me, but not too light to be bothersome like old GM models, Cutlass, Ciera etc. I currently drive my wife's Jimmy so almost ANYTHING seems precise & responsive to me.

7. Are there any published performance specs on the 2K2 SE 6-Speeds? I have seen some very encouraging numbers here on the forum, but have not seen anything published yet.

A: I haven't seen any either.

8. How is the torque steer with the 3.5?

A: Didn't bother me a bit. I've driven far worse. But I waited for, and am getting the helical limited slip differential, so it should even be less of an issue. You will be getting this since you won't be buying till later anyway.

9. Does the height adjustable center console intefere with your elbow when you are shifting?

A: The center console at the high position is about level with the arm rest on the door, which to me is good. It does get in the way when shifting a bit, but the I don't think I would use the center console in the high position unless I drive on long highway road trips, cruising in 5th or 6th.

10. For those of you that have moved from a 4th generation 5 speed (like EMax), how much stronger does the 2K2 six-speed actually feel?

A: I can't comment on comparisons with 4th gens, but the engine pull is very strong and smooth in 3rd, 4th, 5th and even 6th, almost un-noticebale, until you look at the speedo and realise how much over you really are, and yes, those are a lot of cars you're blowing by.

11. How do the 2K2's (or 5th generation SE's) handle compared to the 4th generations?

A: Can't comment.

12. And finally, the important question...does the 6-Speed have a speed limiter? And if it doesn't, has anybody tested the top speed out?

A: Can't comment. Although everything I've read is that Canadian spec'ed Max has no limiter.

You should consider how the roads and terrain are in your home state and what your daily driving routine / commute is like. If they are mostly straight and flat like NY, OH, MI then I would favor the Max.

If OTOH your state is canyon curvy and uppy downy like CA, UT, then I would vote for the Bimmer.

Keep in mind that no matter what car you buy, wait long enough and ALL cars eventually have a worth of $0. The higher the cost, the bigger the fall to $0.

Good luck.

 

I know that cars are always a terrible investment, but I see the 330 being hands down the better choice here. Consider that you can get a substantial discount on a 330 in Germany. Bring that car over to the states, and you've instantly increased the "value" of the car because you can sell it at the increased US market prices later. From your perspective, the car's value will end up following a far flatter devaluation curve. Whether or not you end up losing more money on the BMW over the Maxima after 4 years or whatever, I don't know. You'll have to look at the exact $$ figures to be exact.

 

EMAX,

Yes, I missed your post yesterday. Thanks for your input. I appreciate someone who can compare the fourth gen to the 2K2. I want to wait and drive a 2K2 six speed when I am back in the states in March before I make any kind of decision.

Thanks for everybody's input, I appreciate it.

 

Leadfoot,

Thanks for your reply. Yes, and the heated steering wheel is also weighing heavily in my decision, even though I do not plan on living anywhere cold when I have a choice of where I can live!

 

A few more questions for you Y2K folks....

13. Can you hit 60 in second gear or do you have to shift into third (for those with 6-speeds - EMAX probably knows this one!)?

14. Do the gauges still go from white to black with the lights like in the fourth generation SE's?

15. I see that the Bose is a must option if you want anything else. How does it sound?

Thanks again!!!!

 

You mean faster doesn't mean better?

 

If speed is the only thing you care about then faster is better.

I don't really care how fast my car is, that's why I'm going with a newer 530i instead of an older 540i.