280HP and FRONT WHEEL DRIVE in next years Pontiac Grand Prix G-Force. http://www.motortrend.com/autoshows/...o02/index.html
that'll be interesting

 

seems intresting. btw how come your wheels are not polished?

 

they are, must be the angle of the picture, if you check out my profile there is a side shot of the car, you can tell they are polished from straight on much easier...

 

Perfect comp for the 6sp SE. Pathetic that a s/c 3.8L will be compared to a N/A 3.5L

 

still automatic = still don't care

 

Looks like the HP war is on. Everyone is trying to go higher now.

SuDZ

 

I just drove my friends slow Grand Prix gt (52k miles and I enjoyed the symphony of rubbing plastic parts from every direction. It doesn't handle that bad though (compared to stock Max.)

-Jeremy
97 5-speed (no squeaks or rattles at 97k miles)
Jwt pop charger, soon CAI
WSP Y-pipe

 

Wonder if it's still a pushrod 2-valver? It seems as if the new horsepower war has begun. Only this time it isn't a civil war, it's a world war. The next few years will indeed be quite a ride.
-Justin

 

I think it is still a 2 valver, it has the same torque as last year, so they prolly just messed with the heads or somethin. they always do that. I had a Grand am, and they were 155 hp, now that engine has 170 hp( not the new GA, but the 3.1 in the malibu has been revised) they revise a lot of things from year to year, like the 1st 3.8 had 175 hp, now it has 200, and they got that new number by doing little things to up hp(i.e head work, runneres etc), but not to do much w/ torque.

 

hp = Tq * RPM / 5252
The current hp/tq ratings for the 3800 Supercharged motor are:
240hp@5200 and
280lb-ft@3200.

Since HP is dependent on torque, you can figure from the formula that torque drops to 242.4lb-ft at 5200RPM. To increase peak hp to 280, either they increased the peak RPM or raised the top-end torque curve (nearly 40lb-ft) to boost top-end HP. Those are the only ways to increase hp. Since the new motor doesn't have more than 280lb-ft, I'm guessing that they did both. Either way this car is going to run mid-high 14's stock and grab mid-low 13's with BPU (Intake/Exhaust, TC, Chip, smaller pulley, IC). The supercharger is warrantied too! Should be interesting.
-Justin

 

Interesting until something breaks on those darn GM cars.

 

True, true.

 

There has been a horsepower war for more than 100 years. This is nothing new.

That 280hp will serve only to break the crappy transmissions in those cars much faster. I remember seeing tons and tons of transmission failures listed on the GTP site. One guy had to replace his transmission at 3,000 miles. That's not too impressive.

 

ditto

 

IC = InterCooler
BPU = Basic Power Upgrades?
TC = ?????

Does a smaller pully or other Mods void the factory warranty?

 

TC = Torque Converter (they're auto)
Shouldn't unless it specifically causes a problem with the car. Thrasher already sells an IC for them, worth ~30hp last time I checked. The 4T60-E transaxle in the 3800 SC cars are only rated to 300hp. I don't know what the torque rating is, but stock 3800 SC's make 280lb-ft@3200RPM. That's why they have transmission trouble. If GM was smart they'd use the 4T80-E from the 300hp Northstar Caddies, but that would probably upstage Caddies' claim to fame of being the most powerful front drivers. GM is so stupid.

 

It'd be neat if GM used the 3.5L DOHC V6 from the Olds Intrigue. With less displacement, and under natural aspiration, it only makes 25hp less than the supercharged 3.8L OHV V6.
If GM S/C'd the 3.5L, it'd be a great move in the right direction. It's all about evolution of the species, right?

 

That's a really good point. They've had that 3.8L a while now, and even though its not a bad engine, I think they would benefit from that 3.5L.

My friend had a GP-GT, and went through 4 engines in 5 months. 1 engine was N/A and the others were GTP/Rivera engines, talk about stealthy, he'd pull up to an unsuspecting victim with his grand prix gt badging and with his intake on that s/ced engine WoW sounded really mean.



He still didn't have evertthing set up perfect, b/c when he racd a real GTP, he'd lose. He raped me from a dead stop, but on a roll, I stayed surprisingly even w/ him.

Actually, the new GTP's(280hp) will be 4th gens for lunch, but not the 2G-5thGen's.

 

"Pontiac Grand Prix G-Force
With the G-Force "concept," Pontiac offers a look at the next-generation Grand Prix's styling and performance. Pushing boundaries on both counts, the 2+2 sedan is wrapped in bold sheetmetal and has the goods to back it. The performance goals were a 155-mph top speed and 0.85 g of lateral acceleration, putting it in elite company with premium European sedans. For motivation, the G-Force uses a supercharged 3800 V-6, like today's top Grand Prix models, that has been tuned to put out 280 horsepower. Potent output for a front-driver, the engine is reined in by electronic drive-by-wire throttle and a manually controlled automatic transmission, dubbed TACshift. Other high-tech goodies include four-channel StabiliTrak system and dynamically adjusting shocks.






DAMMIT.... everything keeps getting faster and faster... It's no point in trying to buy the faster/newer car since in a couple of years you better be sure they will make something faster.. I give up on performance.. time to rice it out

 

If we are dreaming about new vehicles from GM, I'll take the 750HP Cadillac Cien.

 

Still like the maxi!

 

I really wish GM would put the new Inline 6 in a RWD sedan with a Manual tranny. That would be pretty damn nice. Plus in the newest Motor Trend(?) they have a Turbocharged version of the I6....

 

ur point is? i still like my max better.....or is it the fact that i don't like domestics?

 

I think what he's getting at is the incredible amount of torque steer a car like that would have. Traction control and a light foot on the accelerator will be a must for a clean launch. Even the Saab 9-3 Viggen is a handful, and it's only a 4-banger...with around 260lb-ft of torque,

 

The 240 HP ones take 4th gens... they are mid to high 14 sec. stock... what are the 1/4 times for the 5th gens???

 

Lots of 4-gens are about 15.0 stock and low 14's w/ just intake and Y.

 

right.... and so are GTP's... see what I'm getting at? I haven't seen too many guys on here w/ stock 15.0's... most have mods... I may be wrong but it's what I've seen... go check out the 4th gen forum.. I'm not calling you out.. but I haven't seen a whole lot in the high 14's w/ no work...

 

\There are a few guys that are bone stock that have done a 15.0 I belive. But then again, less than 1/2 of us even go to the track. That's the reason for the lack of track times.

 

All I can say is see ya guys at the track... It's kinda silly of us to try and fairly compare our cars... the only way to do it is:

give you .3 more litres... take away 12 of your valves & 3 cams, give you about 400-500lbs of dead plastic weight, take away the 6 speed and give you a crappy auto tranny (that shifts about 5,700 rpms) then put a few constrictive intake and exhaust things in and slap a SC on and give it about half the boost it could handle (GRRR@GM) Then when the really WEAK roller rockers come in from GM you can put that in and you're finished. Roller rockers ALONE cost the GTP about 20HP!!!! I don't get some car manufacturers.. my car is lightly modded... it's definately faster than stock AND I get better gas mileage than before WTF!!! It sounds better too!

 

-Jeremy
97 5-speed (no squeaks or rattles at 97k miles)
Jwt pop charger, soon CAI


Are you sure you want to get rid of the JWT and get a CAI? Most 5sp prefer the JWT over the CAI.

 

thats bullsh!t..

 

The 280HP engine is just a tuned version of the current supercharged 3.8. It probably makes more torque than 280 but since it is using the current tranny rated at 280 foot pounds of torque they didn't want to say that. The reason they don't use the caddy tranny is because it is only rated at 300 foot pounds of torque, which is only 20 more than the stock SC 3.8 puts out. Modifications should void your warranty like it will with any manufacturer, but there are mod-friendly dealerships. Sorry if I missed anything.

As far as it being an auto; it's still a prototype, you never know. It very well could be an AWD with 6 speed.

That really doesn't matter though, because there are bigger things in the works.....
http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=1597 http://www.holden.com.au/app/serve?p...&cartype=18001

 

Way back in the day, before the current Grand Prix was even introduced, Pontiac had a GTP concept with 300hp. And look at the production GTP;It only has 240hp. Who knows if the next GTP will really even have 280hp or not, since this 'G Force' is just a concept as well.

The 300hp concept was the cover car in an issue of MT(around 95 I think). I'll try to find the issue and scan the cover.

 

In warmer weather I liked my poor man's cai better than the JWT. I don't care what people say, my car had more torque below 3500 rpm with the cai. For races off the line, I'll take the JWT, but the cai was more fun. I didn't like the "under bumper" intake area though because too much dirt got sucked in.
- Jeremy

 

I wanna thank you guys for keeping this post civil.. it's gotten nasty in the past... if you wanna see all you'll ever neet to know about my slug got to:

http://www.chesserx.com/ih8rice/

look at Grand Prix 101.txt

 

The 4T60-E is rated at 300hp, not lb-ft. That is what currently powers the GTP. The 4T80-E is is under the 300hp, 295lb-ft, and 275hp, 300lb-ft, Caddy Northstar. There's no way GM is rating the Caddy transaxle to only 300lb-ft as you claim, or 300hp for that matter. Did you see the "Project Blackfin" Seville STS? 350hp and ~350lb-ft. Again, the Caddy tranny is rated for a lot more than 300lb-ft. The 4T60-E under the 3800 Supercharged motors is the tranny that's rated for 300hp, which explains all the transmission problems for GTP's that are drag-raced. The 4T80-E Caddy Transaxle's controller won't communicate with the 3800 SC's ECU. If GM put the 4T80-E under the 3800 Supercharged motors, they would have the potential to become reliable, 300hp front-drivers. Thus stealing Caddy's bragging rights for being the most powerful front drive automobiles in the world.

 

4T65-E specs for current GTP tranny
4T80-E specs for the current caddy

 

Okay, I stand sorely corrected.

 

Over a CAI anyday.