Albert is this a blue hanabi kit? or is it a acura HID becuase thats how they look like at a redlight from a close view. The pic that Mike posted that pic was taken from a side view and my car was parked 2 carlengths from that bright beam, what glare are you talking about? I dont get it is it bad or good? These HIDS kick butt if you want brightness attention and last but not least great visibility at night. My coworker got in the car last night and said darnnn these things are mad bright.

 

those are projection headlamps. thats why you didn't give a head on pic. go buy projection headlamps for the max and install a set of hids and you will get a cut of line but you will still have glare.

all hid give out glare, even new factory cars. tell me a car that doesn't have glare. tl, audi, bmw, mer, lex all produce glare. sorry for the bad news.

 

This beam pattern was brought to you by your friendly neighborhood Audi saloon (B5 chassis). The lamps use the H7 bulb (non-HID) with a projector element. THe HID version of the these lamps would have the same beam pattern, but with greater intensity and a whiter color.

Acura RLs, TLs and CLs all have lamps that provide this type of pattern. So do 5th Gens and the JDM units available for Infinti I30s.

THe vertical cutoff you see in the second picture means that above this "line", there is no light. This mean no glare. Glare is bad. You take a look at the top picture of your car and you'll notice light cast above the door ****. You don't need glare for "brightness attention", just the mere fact that your lights are on, will bring people attention.

Go ahead, park your car on level ground and walk about 25 feet in front of your car and stand in front of the driver's side headlamp. If light is hitting you in the eye, it because there is excess glare. If you walk in front of any of those other cars I've mentioned, you'll recieve no glare, in fact, the headlamps will only seem lit, but dim. This is because your eyes are above the cutoff.

 

walk 50ft away and tell me they don't have glare. the father away the more glare you get. just the facts.

 

Yes they are projection lamps all you have to do is look at an A4 and you'd know this. True, projection type lenses give a more clear pattern, but the cutoff is not a result of the lens type. All of these other cars I've listed use reflectors (or an H4 bulb) to produce the proper beam pattern. Go stand in front of a car with OEM HIDs and then stand in front of a car with a conversion kit. You'll see a big difference.

 

If a good beam pattern is aimed properly, it'll be angled slightly downward. This means that the cutoff appears lower and lower the farther you move away from the vehicle.

 

So I'm doing it again...read and understand:

clicky

 

Projector lamps do have glare which shows up in different colors. The more distance you put between yourself and the projectors, the more glare you'll get. When I had the Chrysler LHS with the projector fogs, oncoming traffic used to high beam me all of the time. Projectors can be worse for oncoming drivers.

 

All projector units are not created equal. I've seen those, they do not comply with ECE requirements and were designed to meet DOT requirements. DOT requirements are not as stringent and allow certain amount of glare. But the requirements for HID systems are held to different regard, due to the very fact that HID lamps put out three time more light. A correctly designed headlamp (be it projector or reflector type) will have a vertical cutoff. When aimed properly, there will be no excess glare above the cutoff, no matter how far you are from the car. This is fact.

The fact remains, you guys are taking a light source that was not designed to be used with the HB1 reflector. That's why you have a horrible beam pattern. The HB1 reflector was designed for a bulb with transverse filaments, thats why it has the shape it does.

 

You got very technical about this light stuff, understand your concern, but I am pretty careless about this stuff but on that same note I will walk away from my car and sit in my wifes car and see if I get blinded by the brightness, if so then Ill aim them a bit lower. As for the glare when I had the Acuras in my rear view mirror they had glare as well. Now the new Mercedes do have those projection lights with the HIDS, all that thick glass will make the beam shoot very accurately straight and everyone can vouch for that if your ever at a redlight next to a BMW or Mercedes etc...but thanks for your concerns I read the HID article and I somewhat got what you were saying. I have not got flashed at all since my car sits very low already for a Max that is.

 

clicky

 

Glare, no glare...who cares. What's your point? So it's not perfect. You don't like, you don't buy. Simple as that.

 

Cumalot is right. Albertt if you want to nit-pick, lets here what you have to say about Y-pipes, gutted cats, lowered Maximas, aluminum wheels and foglights.

 

"Albertt if you want to nit-pick, lets here what you have to say about Y-pipes, gutted cats, lowered Maximas, aluminum wheels"

I'm not passionate about anything else but lighting. Sorry to disappoint.

"and foglights"

Don't even get me started. I have researched foglamps to death. I have recommendations, but most people just want to make their cars look pretty.

 

Who cares. Other drivers do. My point is, that HID conversion kits up to now, are not improvements in lighting. OE HID systems are.

 

Guys who cares what other people say about our cars and mods. If we like it, then do it. I liked it and did it, and aimed it right. I got a pic here with a comparison of my car on the right and honda accourd on the left and you can see the difference.



In the org, we have the ability to ignore certain members as I have chose to.

 

Maybe you got a point there. So maybe you could come up with something better then?

 

Unfortunately I lack the manufacturing resources to produce a better headlamp. I started a project to integrate an HB2 reflector into the 4thGen housing, but it's on hold...grad school is taking up too much time. I'm also anxiously awaiting pics and details on Greg's projector offering.

If I had a manufacturing base, I'd start a company, and using software such as:

http://www.lightcamp.com/DB/headlamp95.pdf

and

http://www.breault.com/ftp/docs/bronews/q2_1999.pdf

I could custom design headlamps for 4th Gen guys and dozens of other car owners. But hey, those are things dreams are made of.

 

Ny friend got them on his 323 and they were optional. He said they were the biggest waste of money and when he picked up his car for the first week everyone gave him the highs all the time. His car is supposed to have a self-leveling feature. He took it back to the dealer and apparently they reaimed them. Does that make any sense? How do they self-level and which HID cars have it and which don't?

 

The way I understand it, in Europe the EU is very stringent about headlight glare and its effect on on-coming drivers. Their HID projectors and reflectors are designed differently than U.S. DOT headlamps. They design them with a very dramatic, sharp vertical cut-off, but offer a very wide beam pattern. Many Audi S4 owners have bought e-code headlamps to replace the DOT headlamps, and they say that the lights become even brighter and whiter, but the vertical cutoff is very very sharp, to the point where they don't illuminate overhead signs as well.

Related to anti-glare, the EU requires that all HID systems have self-leveling. So (IMO) if the car in question is sold in Europe, the U.S. version probably will have self-leveling standard. A U.S.-only model may or may not have self-leveling.

Another comment that I've read is that the projector lamps are better able to control the dispersion pattern and generally offer more light output than the OEM HID's that use reflectors (Lexus, Acura to name a couple).

There are two types of HID bulbs: D2S and D2R. The S variant is for projector lamps, and the R is for reflector.

Click here for useful info:
http://faq.auto.light.tripod.com/headlight-menu1.htm

 

Autoleveling systems use mercury switches that determine the corrent angle at which the cutoff should be. After being aimed, the switch senses changes in pitch of the vehicle and using small stepper or servo motors, adjusts the aim of the headlamp to counter.

All MBs and BMWs currently sold in North America equipped with HID systems have autoleveling actuators built into the lamp assembly. All cars in Europe equipped with HIDs have them...it is mandated by law.

 

I have that program at work.

 

Audi doesn't use a mercury switch. The have two position sensors, one in the front attached to one of the suspension arms and one in the back attached to a suspension arm. This method allows the ECU to determine the level of the car relative to the ROAD, rather than straight up relative to gravitational pull. However this does add the requirement of calibration of the system with the car level.

 

So it's true that even a system with autoleveling can be aimed like my friend said. Guess once again the Europeans are ahead of the Japanese. My 1985 Volvo had a mercury switch for the trunk lamp and also the printed circuits for the tailamps. Way ahead of its time! It's quite a rare occurence though to see a Volvo with a brake lamp that doesn't work or marker lamp

 

quite ricey.......

 

How is the sharp cutoff achieved with typical halogen projector headlights?

Does the halogen bulb have a built in reflector like the H4 or is it accomplished by using reflectors behind the lense?

If the lamps rely on an internal bulb reflector than I would expect to really mess up the beam pattern by substituting HID bulbs.

 

Then you and me might have to do some chatting sometime.

 

Good to know...thanks for the info. I still have so much to learn. THe engine/body ECU controls the aim of the headlamps...or is there a separate computer just to handle lighting?

 

First and foremost, all headlamp bulbs used in cars are of the halogen type. Halogen bulbs are pressurized bulbs with a tungsten filament and halogen gas for cooling and to prevent rapid oxidation of the filament.

For a lamp system that use single filament bulbs, like the H1, H7, 9006 and H3, the beam pattern and associated cutoff is controlled by the shape of the reflector. The only bulb that controls the pattern on it's own is the H4, with the internal shield you mentioned.

A projector unit uses the focusing abilities of the lens, and internal shielding to achieve a good beam pattern. An dual filament bulb like the H4, 9004 and 9007 cannot be used in a projector. Also, single filament bulbs with a transverse filament configuration, like the H3, cannot be used. Porjector units by nature are more precise than reflector units.

And finally, for your last statement, you are 100% correct.

 

On the Audi the headlamp level is controlled by the main ECU. I'm able to plug up with my laptop (with appropriate cable and software) and set the reference level for the headlights to use.


Rob

 

That would make it easy to build-in the self-aligning-when-cornering lighting systems. A couple of servo motors to articulate the lamps in the horizontal direction, a couple of pitch sensors to let the ECU if the car is going around a corner and voila!

An off topic question: Are the 2.7TT motor's turbos sequential?

 

No, they run in parallel. One turbo is fed from one side of the Vee, while the other turbo is propelled by the other. The outlet of the turbos then come together with a Y-hose and feed into the intake.

So the advantage of this setup is you can use two smaller turbos to allow faster spool-up (less turbo lag). That's why the stock S4 torque peaks at <2000 RPM.


Rob

 

good thread. Al makes some good points. i have the hanabi blue and it is bright, but the beam pattern is all over the place

while sitting in my driveway, some of the light was reflected upward at almost 90 degrees, illuminating my windows on the second floor

the upward glare probably won't be as bad if i can aim the headlamp down a little more. however, i can see much better than with stock headlamps.