You have to love America, where everyone can express their opinions freely. I'll be heading to the track on Saturday morning to quantify how my SS runs, and I'll put that mystery to bed at the end of the day. I might even bring the Max and run it too.

As for sleepers, I'm all for them, and have had a couple as well. I don't like NOS because it does work the engine hard, but the Nissans tighter tolerances may prolong the engine from damage. Any idiot can blow a motor up with or without power adders, but superchargers and Nos have been documented to add additional structural stress.

As others have stated, LS1 cars do run 12.90s in stock form, and this is not the normal. The car that GM High Performance ran at 12.89 was a stripper (no t-tops) Z28, not an SS. The worst driver can normally hit 13.50 without breaking a sweat. It's not really fair to compare the Max with a pony car, because it's two different animals.

Can't wait to see what Nissan does with the 03. Hope it doesn't become a boat......

 

Have you driven the 02 6spd maxima yet? No offense but the 2000 Auto Maxima is the slowest of all the maxima's 4th-5th gen.

The Maxima in general is a very fast family car. It has real potential. Like I said above your bias is not fair becuase you have one of the slower ones.

If we were fair here we would compare a Camaro SS to a Nissan Skyline GT-R TT. In that case, where the comparison is fair, the Skyline turbo would blow the camaro away.

The fact that we are comparing our family cars to your muscle cars just proves that the world is not yet up to Nissan's performance standards.

 

Not really... they would be good competition for the Camaro, they definitely wouldn't blow them away. And BTW in that price range you would compare it to a Viper, not a Camaro.
-Cyrus

 

I really don't know about that....It really depends on the trim level of each car. Even the N/A Skyline would be a good match for the Camaro, but the turbo (remember, that's twin turbos!) would logically tear the $hit out of the slowmaro. On the skylines down under page, they have skylines with over 1300 hp under the hood. I haven't looked at any specific numbers or anything, so I'm just thinking aloud. Don't heed any of this as gospel...Just explaining my logic and defending our beloved Nissans.

 

Looks at the times of a stock R34 TT and a Camaro SS. They're not that far off. I love Nissans too and I would anyday prefer the Skyline, but I have to be fair. BTW you are correct you can get the Skyline over 1000hp, but do you really not think you can get that out of a classic American muscle car? That's what I thought. There are many people running low 12s and high 11s in Camaros too, not like the 4 or so doing it in Skylines here in our country.
-Cyrus

 

The GTR isn't even in the same class as a Camaro. Camaro/Firebird, their just chairs attached to engines, makes em hella fast in a straight line without much else. Compare all aspects of performance between a GTR and a Camaro and anyone could see that the GTR blows the GM out of the water. Compare interiors, styling, skidpad, slalom etc...

In the U.S. its obviously not fair to compare the 2 cars considering it costs almost 95k to get a skyline vs a camaro for under 35k. As for drag racing the 2 cars, stock would be a decent match up, but mod for mod, the GTR would pull far ahead, not to mention the ability to crank up boost.

All the old muscle cars putting out huge amounts of power weren't much good elsewhere besides at the drag strip from my knowledge. The old muscle cars with the big blocks running 9s, impressive in a straight line, but not much in turns.

 

Oh... so then NX and ZEX DON'T work the engine hard?

 

why is this such an infatuation with people?

Just a reminder:

Maxima = FWD
Maxima = sedan
Maxima = V6
Maxima = grocery getter
Maxima = quick, but no track car unless heavily modded

Rustangs/Camaros = RWD
Rustangs/Camaros = coupe/conv
Rustangs/Camaros = V8s (V6s don't deserve to be mentioned)
Rustangs/Camaros = muscle car designed to be ragged out and raced, but not built well enough to go 200k
Rustangs/Camaros = quick in straight line on track and at stop lights

 

Is a 14.8 time acheived by Nealoc in his stock Max not considered track worthy?

 

It's all relative. Track worthy compared to Vettes, Supras, LS1 power? Nope. Track worthy to most other na V6 and 4 cylinder cars? Yes.

Nice sig BTW. lol

 

God didn't make maxima u know..

 

All this comparison is immature. And it’s the same thing over and over again. A Maxima can out handle, out carry the number of passenger, and last longer than the "rustang" or "slowmaro". That's what it was designed for. It was not meant to drag race. Simple as that, and trying to convince yourself that you can somehow "out do" the domestics is laughable.

Go to any domestic board and see what sort of times on average they run. Then compare it to this board. You should not think that your next door neighbor's re-badged 80's V6 Camaro is the latest and greatest of American engineering.

Same goes for the "wow" mentality of turbo/supercharging. It is not a proprietary technology that only works with imports; in fact you'd have a hard time finding anything naturally aspired at any decent track.

Same goes for any major metropolitan area, even with a quad-turbo super duper Maxima running 10's you'd still loose all your money. Street outfit domestic cars that run for money are no slower than mid 9's, with the best in mid to low 8's.

Judging by the posts here it's pretty obvious that the majority live in a very small world of their own, or are still yet to grow up, or move out of Nebraska

 

But he made the good men at Nissan and they made it.

Jeff, I thought you'd like it hehe

 

Even though I love both maximas and camaros, there is still no better feeling that sitting in camaro with a growling v8. Its not a cheap cone filter sound, but like a car with *****. I drove an low 11 second camaro. At that point I didn't care what the car was, i had too much adrenaline rushing through me. Personally, I prefer the sound of a nice v8 over some import with twin turbos and a v6 (although i love that pssshh sound). "There's no replacement for displacement." As far as the slow 14 & 15 second camaro's go, they're good as junked.

 

What I can't understand is the fact that Camaro owners respect the quality of car that the Max is, but Nissan owners dog Camaros to the end. I own both, but most Max owners have never even driven a Camaro or Mustang. Neither is the perfect car.......

 

No doubt that RWD LS1 power is king.

But I gotta tell ya, the second to last time I went to the track I lined up against a presumably stock WS6 TA and got him by a slim margin both times. The look on his face, and others like him when I walk on them in my little four door with the baby seat in the back is soooooo worth it!

Now if ya put 10k into a Camaro, that would be one bad ****!!!

 

Being the former owner of a 94 6spd Z28 both when it was stock as well as when I modified it, as well as the owner of a 2k2 6spd Max, I feel that I can definitely offer my opinion on this topic.

First off, the Camaro will out handle the Max. In stock form, for both cars, it's no competition. The Camaro's brakes are superior to the Max as well. Any mods that I can do to my Max, I could do just as easily to the Camaro for less money. Is the Max inferior/superior? Yes, both, in different ways are great cars. The Camaro was definitely more fun to drive hard as there's nothing like tossing the tail out during a sweeping turn, only to be able to count on all the torque that the 5.7L has. The Max's biggest problem, IMO, is that it's FWD. Put a good independent rear end in that car and make those wheels push the car and I think it would be a very different story (G35 comes to mind here). I still don't believe that the Max would kill the Camaro, but it would be an interesting chase around a track.

Albert

 

Holy crap!!! I couldn't agree more with you. I too owned a 94 Z28 before getting my Maxima. The brakes in the Z28 were better, the handling was better, and God, that V8 sound with my Flowmaster catback was to die for. When guys put exhausts their Maximas and say their Max sounds like V8, they have no clue what they're talking about. The thing that bothers me most about this forum, actually any import forum, is that most import guys have never owned, more or less never driven an F-Body/Stang yet they seem to know everything about domestics and that all domestics are a POS. They're just ignorant fools.

THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT. PERIOD!!!! The bigger displacement motor ALWAYS has the potential to make more power. Go ahead and wind up those turbos on the Skyline, it will still be no match for a ICON twin turbo'd equipped LS1. I've got a great video of twin turbo LS1 SS tearing down the highway. The sound is incredible. The run starts at 70mph and goes to 155mph. The run only takes 12 seconds.


Dave

 

.......ICON twin turbo'd equipped LS1.........

 

I beat a 99 six speed vette in my old 96 SS too. The guy couldn't drive it. He should have killed me. The same night, there was a guy there with a very timid looking 99 SE, but it had the Stillen turbo, and he ran 14.05 to my SS's 14.10. Quick car, but with a $5000 power adder it barely beat my LT1.

As for all of the Skyline comparisons, why don't we just campare Cessnas to 747s and get it over with. Pony cars can be had for $30K, not $130K (and that's cheap for some Skylines). Speaking of family cars, whats going to happen when Chevy brings the Holden Monaro over from Australia as the new GTO. That car with the LS6 from the vette, will be handing all of the import sport sedans their asses on a plate. The Holden UTE is coming shortly after that as the new El Camino. Same drive train. Now the Max gets spanked by a car with a bed on it. Somehow it just seems fitting.

Yes I did drive a 2002 6 spd Max. It pulls good, but it's not a V8, and it will not out handle my SS. The sloppy GM six speed is MUCH more precise that the Max shifter, and the handle wobbles like it's rubber.

But it sure is nice to crawl into the Max for the weekend after having my F-body beat the pee out of me all week........

 

Domestic V8s are definitely bad to the bone. However, what's up with the interior? Why the interior is so cheap looking? Even the top of line CamaroSS interior look cheap. Maybe looks aren't everything, but if I spend that kind of money, I would want the interior to be nicer.

 

for the 15th time....the "Maxima Is God's Charriot", everyone repeat "the Maxima is God's Charriot".....[repeat several times for maximum effect]

 

Skylines are under 100k through MotoRex, unless u special ordered The Blackbird. Try and import a GM car from Australia, and see if that won't cost u a hell of a lot more than that car is worth. The GTR only sees that type of price hike outside of Japan, mainly bc its not Nissan that brings it there. The GTR could be had for about 60-70k, compared to the US price its a lot less, and with GTR, u get what u pay for. Theres no doubt in my mind that the Camaros are hella fast, stock or modded, and that type of straight line performance for under 30k is very enticing, but many people look for refined cars, not just big power in one direction. Theres a reason that people buy 911Turbo instead of a Camaro modded to be that fast, anyone can argue that a boosted LS1 with the right combination of mods could outrun a 911Turbo, so what if the Camaro is faster, it doesnt have the level of refinement that the 911 would have. Camaro was designed to be affordable speed, not the ultimate performance car, thats why its in such a nice price range. Look at any of the big time car companies, theres not too many of them that design performance cars that are only good in a straight line. BMW M3, Mercedes AMG Series, Audi S4, Toyota Supra, Nissan GTR, Mitsubishi 3000GT, Honda NSX, all those cars are similar in straight line speed as a Camaro, but all of those are also superior cars to a camaro.
Camaros are in a class of their own, affordable sports cars that are good at drag racing. They are by no means a PERFORMANCE car. Theres so much more to Performance than how fast u can go in a straight line.

 

I couldn't agree more

 

If people are looking for 'refinement' why do they still insist on racing straight line?

You don't see too many road holding figures, or slalom times in signatures, they are 1/4 times! Same goes for all the kill stories.

 

Becuase a 1/4 mile time is a measure in which almost everyone has the ability to attempt. It's a standard.

How often do you hear, "Hey guys lets go to the local road holding index track this weekend!"

Not all kills are in a straight line. I can name many that had to do with one car not being able to keep up with another car in the twisties.

 

I thought this thread got locked for a reason


Anywho, all I have to say is that yes, if I were only interested in going fast in a straight line I would have to choose the Mustang or Camaro over the Maxima, that's not all I'm interested in though. I'm a poor college student, and I need a car that I can throw some people in, deliver some pizza in, and drive in Michigan winters in.

I love racing, and I want a car that can move down the 1/4 mile with relative ease, autoX with some success, and hang it all out on the road course with a little finesse. All of these forms of racing, combined with the things I listed above preclude me getting a pony car.

And yet it IS fun to compete out of your league. There is something fun about running down an LT1 F-body or 5.0, even though you know that particular car has the potential to be MUCH faster than your own car, the fact is that in this particular form, it isn't. I enjoy my maxima, not because it is the ultimate race car, but because it does all the things I want it to do relatively well, and it hasn't totally gone to **** on me yet as far as repairs and maintenance are concerned.

 

I have owned both. My last car was a 1992 Z28 25th Anniversary Camaro...
.
While yes, it was faster than my Max, it was the biggest POS I've ever owned.

I changed the oil every 3k, got tuneups when needed (I never got to 60k on any one engine, so I can't say I did regular tuneups.)

In 5 years:
4 Engines!
1 Radiator
1 Heater Core
1 Distributor
3 Distributor Caps
4 Starters
3 Alternators
3 ignition Switches (1 was from someone breaking it, trying to steal the car, so that doesn't count really)

AND......The Frame LITERALLY snapped while driving down a relatively flat road (Lower Control Arm frame broke off the main frame)

(scared the **** outta me - That was the last straw)

I lost $2500 when I got rid of it in trade-in value when I got my Max for it, but It was well worth getting it out of my life.

So I myself have reason to dis Camaros.
With the money I spent fixing it, I could have bought a TT Supra.

IanS

 

I owned a 1995 Mustang GT with the 5.0L V8 prior to owning my 2K1 Maxima SE. Both are 5-speeds. I love my Maxima much more. The mustang was slower and much less refined than my Maxima. The mustang rides rough, has a cramped backseat, and has very little trunk space. My brother owns a 1998 Z28 Camaro and although it is fast, it rides like crap and has an unusable backseat. It depends on what you want but the Maxima is definitely in a different class than mustangs/camaros.

 

Hey, there's no need to be insulting. This is a discussion board, not a "let's supress everyone else" board. I don't give a rat's behind about the inability of these cars to be compared. We just like to talk about it. What makes you so wonderful that you have to come here and act like you are the Messiah? Certainly some gutsy action from a newbie.

 

What's really kinda comical it's the V-8 guys pounding their chests over beating a stock max by .5 at the local track. Don't you think a V-6 guy has a good reason to "brag" when they beat a V-8 that has twice the displacement and claimed HP? Kinda like bully bashing in grammar school. Everyone cheers when the bully finally gets a taste of their own medicine.

The reason why you can't compare apples to apples is because for the most part American cars are mostly made for chosen purposes. In other words, there are few cars that are very good in more than one category at a time. If ANYONE spends 10k on any car, they should stomp just about anybody they line up against (unless that person also spent 10k on their mods and then you have apples with apples).

I don't like dissing any cars, except the all rice guys. I just know this. People talk a lot trash about having 13 and 14 sec cars. I went to the track last night and ran my 95 GLE AUTOMATIC with a full tank of gas (shows you my experience level) for the first time ever. Let me put it this way, when I SMOKED a 98-99 Bullet edition Mustang after they cut an almost perfect light (.523 to my sleeping at the light .822), the owner came over to me and asked me if I was sure I ONLY had a V-6 under the hood. After smiling from ear to ear, I gladly told him, YES SIR. Bottom line, I drove home in a comfortable LEATHER SEAT, kept comfortable by my CLIMATE CONTROL, happily cruising at 80 m.p.h. w/o any vibrations or blarring exhaust, totally happy that my 30 m.p.g. 4-door AUTOMATIC 7 yr old 156k (yes 156,000 with still the same ORIGINAL engine, I've only had to rebuild the stock tranny which is the notoriously weak link in the auto max's) car well knowing that I had just smoked a "big and bad" V-8 Mustang.

The only way any Pony car can break into some of the numbers some people are throwing around here is to be heavily modded, which would basically just about ruin all everyday driveability. To all the "there's no replacement for displacement" guys; Go ask the guy with the frown on his face driving a pretty gray Bullet Mustang last night if that is always true.....

 

First time at the track?

I rest my case.

ohh and crusher84, a newbie on this board does not equite to a newbie anywhere else. I really expected more class from this board, it's not $3k Civics after all.

 

this whole argument is a waste.....all of the cars are in a totally different class, whats the point??? just face it each has its advantage over the other, plain and simple. to compare ones track experience or street race against a domestic and then attribute it to all domestics is ridiculous....

 

Like I said before, I'm not dissing anyone's car. I personally like variety and think American Iron is pretty cool. I really expected to get flamed by some people here for my OPINION, but by a newbie who comes into an import forum to put down the subject being discussed here with lame old-timer cliche's as "no replacement for displacement"; Please. If you think for a minute that just because it was my first time at the track that I have no knowledge about cars or racing, then you are just not as smart as you seem to be. If you took my comments personally, then I'm going to give you another old timer cliche as a rebuttal: A wounded dog will holler.

BTW, this is a public board and forum, so if you don't want someone to disagree with you maybe you should not post at all.

Now flame on.....

 

You wanna piece of me? Wanna take it outside?

j/k lol

 

I don't believe the Bullitt edition came out until 2001. And it's basically only a cosmetic package. Are you sure you got everything right? Maybe it's like some of the Maxs that are pieced together with other model year parts (ie HID on a 2k1). I've seen people put Z28 exhaust on 6cyl Camaros, Mustang dual exhaust and GT badges on 6cyls. Some people are crafty that way. Hell, my friend has told me that Bazooka (people that make the drop in amped sub) are making a sub that looks exactly like a NOS bottle. I can't imagine anyone wanting that, but I'm sure it's going to sell.

Invest $3000 on an ATI or Vortech blower and you have an instant 13 second car with the LT1. Definitely doesn't reduce everyday drivability in any way. It's going to cost me a truck load more $$$ to make my 2k2 6spd Max come even close. And that's assuming that I could buy the parts for the Max.

Albert

 

My friend has a 2k v6 mustang and he put in dual flowmaster exhausts. I saw the bazooka nos bottle thing. Its called bass in a bottle or something like that. The speaker is on the bottom of the bottle. Its pretty funny.....

 

 

I own a heavily modded 88 Mustang GT (suspension, brakes , engine, etc.) in additon to my 2k2 and I admit I absolutely love my 2K2 more. On any normal trip, long or short, I'll enjoy it and be amazed at the combo of perfomance and comfort. But anytime I just want to punish the streets nothing compares to kicking the rear end out and the deep growl of my GT. Just my 2 cents.

 

A couple of things:

1) I politely ask you to edit your post so that your previous reply (which I quote above) doesn't come between my comments and my name. To someone casually browsing, it could look like your comments are actually mine.

2) So you're saying that it was a 2001 or 2002? Not doubting your claim, I just pointed out that Ford didn't build the Bullitt in the years you said the car you raced was. I also offered the reasoning that it may have been dressed to look like a Bullitt. Is the video posted? I'd like to see it.

3) My comment re: adding a supercharger, was in response to your claim that "The only way any Pony car can break into some of the numbers some people are throwing around here is to be heavily modded, which would basically just about ruin all everyday driveability. To all the "there's no replacement for displacement" guys; Go ask the guy with the frown on his face driving a pretty gray Bullet Mustang last night if that is always true..... This is not true. S/C'd Camaros/Mustangs/'vettes/etc. are very streetable. A friend of mine has a blown 95 Camaro that his wife drives, with a baby seat in the rear for their son.

4) According to Stillen a 95 Max can expect http://www.cenpipe.com/~akrusvar/Max...stillenmax.jpg 14.4 is not 13's. With Vortech, on a 94 LT1, you get 130 + hp on a car that, stock runs what the s/c'd 95 Max does http://www.cenpipe.com/~akrusvar/Max...lt1vortech.jpg How is this the same?

5) Another comment you make "The all ending pony cars are getting smacked around by cars with half their displacement and the pony car people are getting a little upset." is not true. Stock to stock it doesn't happen, all things being equal (ie - equally capable drivers, etc.). The 2k2 Max is the fastest/quickest Maxima ever sold in Canada/US, right? The 2k2 Camaro will kill my Max. My 94 Z28 would have beat my 2k2 Max, let alone a 94 Max. It's funny how even the Mustang owners use the same argument with LT1 owners, especially when the 'stang went to 4.6L.

There really is 'no replacement for displacement'. I enjoy my Max for the VQ's smoothness, technological superiority, fuel mileage (which really isn't that much better than my 94 Z28 6spd was), creature comforts, etc. There is no 'magic' when it comes to building motors. They work on the same basic rules.

I'm not trying to start anything with you over this, you and I aren't going to settle this issue on this forum. I will tell you, that for my money, if I see an LT1 line up against a Max, my money is going on the LT1 as far as speed goes. I hate the little Civic's, Cavaliers, etc. with coffee can exhausts that pull up and want to race my Max. I hated it when I had the Camaro. It's just annoying. They want to give you a go, but when they lose they come up with the 'Well, you've got.... and mine's only...'

Albert