didn't take as long as I thought... If it were taller it could be mistaken for a FMIC

 

scratched ur lip pretty bad there...

 

You should see the portion i flipped backwards....

 

doh...my lil bro was driving my car and ripped the lip rite off...the lip ripped on the end where the screws go in by the fender...

 

What brand is that? Stillen's?

 

 

Why did you do an oil cooler for just the SC? Are you going to be doing some heavy racing or a seriously small pulley up grade?

 

nice, is that the perma cool?

 

I still have the Permacool Dual Pass one, sitting in my room. I'm gonna use that one for engine oil and power steering (I have to remove the original PS "cooler" in order to get the oil cooler in. Dang connectors/8AN lines are expensive.

Yep, the S/C cooler is the Permacool 24" Frame rail cooler with 06AN connectors.

Kevin... I got the smaller pulley today. Now just gotta decide: FMIC, AWIC or Water Injection... then it's a couple of days of downtime.

BTW... those of you with a Permacool sandwich adaptor... What filter are you guys using? Do I have to get a shorter one? It looks like it would stick out a lot with the 1.5" sandwich adapter + new filter.

 

congrats! looks sweet hehe now I will ask ya questions when my time comes

 

Come over to the DARK SIDE...

 

I'm sprinting over as fast as I can

 

Yipee!

AWIC!

 

Or J&S Ultra Safeguard... I'm running one with 10psi and no intercooler. Soon to be 2.62" and no intercoler

Use the shorter filter they recomend in the Permacool kit. Its a snug fit but it works

 

BTW... those of you with a Permacool sandwich adaptor... What filter are you guys using? Do I have to get a shorter one? It looks like it would stick out a lot with the 1.5" sandwich adapter + new filter. [/B][/QUOTE]

If this is for your oil filter I use the oil filter from Mobil 1 part # M1-204 , just cross reference it when you go to the stores and it will give you the other name brand oil filters that are the same.

 

Have you done a writeup on your results yet? I did a search and haven't found anything. I was wondering if for FI guys, it wouldn't be better to apply the $600 to an intercooler so the timing doesn't have to be retarded (assumption being that retarding = decreased potential power).

Jay, thanks for the Mobile part#... I assume that's the shorter version? It's hard to find someone that carries Permacool locally. I don't know of too many American Speedshops here in L.A.

 

Jay, thanks for the Mobile part#... I assume that's the shorter version? It's hard to find someone that carries Permacool locally. I don't know of too many American Speedshops here in L.A.



Yes thats a shorter oil filter and wont bulge out, the diameter is still same nice and fat. Hope that helps.

 

It works as discribed. I am talking with J&S working out a group deal for the Maxima specific kit. Pricing should be well under $600.

At 9psi or less its not really necessarry to do either an intercooler or timing control. Sure cooler air will make more power. Sure more timing will make more power to a point. After 9psi that its your choice on how you want to hold it together. Personally I have more faith in a unit that will retard timing if somthing goes wrong and you do detonate, then an intercooler. Cooler plugs are one choice but the cause a loss of low and mid range power. FMIC will lose excessive pressure that you cant regain with a SC, so IMHO its not worth it unless you are turbo'd and can just dial up the boost controller for some more boost. Water injection will hold back detonation but from what I have seen and heard it has a little power loss. My track numbers went down a few tenths with it operating and Pablo lost power on when he last dynoed with it. (unless he has tried again that I dont know about?) Kev can you post your dyno files again or e-mail me the files showing with and with out WI on the same days? I think WI is more effective on mega boost turbos then low boost SC set ups. That leaves AWIC, good luck building one that is sized properly for under $1100 DIY, if you have a shop do it it will be $1500 easy. I may eventually do this DIY just so I can use ice at the track.

I really feel its better to be safe than sorry. Thats why I went with the J&S SafeGuard first. I will be going with the 2.62" pulley which shuld give me ~13psi peak with my old V1. I think it would detonate with out timing control, I cant say if an intercooler would be able to handle it on a 10:1 motor anyways, so safety first. The J&S will show me if it does knock and retard the timing to protect it. After I see that it knocked I just dial in some timing retard and will be good to go. Plus if I ever get a tank of bad gas it will pull the timing necessary to save the motor. As a matter of fact the designer of the J&S told me to try a tank of midgrade fuel to see how well his product worked. I didnt think that was a good idea, but he has major faith in his product.

I am going to install a G-Force NA ECU this weekend just to see if I pick up power or not, I'm sure the J&S will intervene if the timing is too much. I think some mid range torque will be picked up for sure!

WOW what a rant! Leme know if I can be of help.
M

 

Does the Oil cooler actually help the charger, I thought that it was more pertinant on a turbo then on a charger??

I am thinking of getting a charger soon because I can't stand being slow.. I have no interest in going nuts, vb mod, turbo timer (more for looks and too keep things as cool as possible), smaller pulley and maybe a variable intake... but none of this more than 9psi nonsense, the max is still my daily driver.

jason

 

Jane's car without water injection:
http://boostedmaximas.com/jane97se/i...ynos/dyno4.jpg
Jane's car with water injection:
http://boostedmaximas.com/jane97se/i...ynos/dyno5.jpg

My car without water injection (11 psi):
http://boostedmaximas.com/y2kevse/im...s/dyno_sc1.jpg
My car with water injection (somehow dropped to 9 psi):
http://boostedmaximas.com/y2kevse/im...s/dyno_sc3.jpg

The reason why Pablo dropped in power was because of the S-AFC. Once I told him the workaround, he bumped back up to 322 hp.

 

water injection does what exactly?

::

 

I dont doubt these dyno's Kev and I trust your word also. I would just like to see dynos done one behind the other with the WI on and the WI off done on the same day. Even though the power readings are SAE their are still allot of variables that come into play. I dont expect you to run out and re-dyno or anything I guess Im just sceptical.

On Janes plot 03 and 07 plot notice ho much leaner the car is from 6000-6500, that is worth a few ponies. Were any adjustments made to her FMU or anything? Cause the WI should make it richer I thought?

IIRC. Yes Pablo's horse power went up from ~280 to 322 after the AFC adjustments to the HI LO points. But, he told me that after he got that straight he tried the WI and lost power. All the tuning from 280 to 322 was with out WI. He thought it might be becuse he was running 50/50 mix of regular alcahol and water, so he was supposed to re dyno and try wore water with denatured alcahol. I dont know if he did this yet or not. I'll link him to this to see if he can elaborate.


Kev if you have the dyno files could you send them to me? I will send you mine?

 

Wow... thanks for all the info... I'm only planning on putting in a 3.125" pulley on my V2... Spearco has a WI system for like $250. I'm not sure how much worse it is than the one Kev is using ($600?).

I'll keep an eye out on the J&S deal.

The S/C oil cooler is just more of a precaution than anything else. I haven't had time to check if it actually lowers intake temps through the S/C. I probably does, but slightly.

I just picked up the K&N Gold #2004 filter (cross ref with Mobil1 204)... Thanks!

 

Hmm, interesting. However I don't think it would be a good idea, N/A ECU upgrages usually involve leaning out stock fuel maps in certain places and advancing timing where appropriate to push more power out of an N/A motor. This might not be a great idea on a boost application. At best your J&S will negate the timing advances made by the G-force, but the fuel maps will still be optimized for an N/A motor. At worst, the G-Force overrides the J&S's attempts at timing control and you detonate big time. You probably know more about this than I do but that's my overall impression. Why not go with the FI ECU? or better yet a standalone like haltech or speedpro?

Personally I think an IC would be ideal paired with a J&S. The J&S unit is reactive, you can't predict detonation-- it occurs then you compensate to adjust. The IC would not only provide cooler intake charge and lower the risk of detonation, but would also gain you some power provided you didn't go oversized. Velocity loss is negligable since an SC runs directly off the motor not off air intake/exhaust. Less pressure also means less stress on your internals and seals. It's better to be proactive than reactive I say..

Keep in mind this is all opinion based on what i've gathered reading about FI in various applications. I'm no guru and none of this is from personal experience.

 

Back to back runs with and without WI slipped my mind. I should've done so when I had the chance.


Check out 007 and 018. You mentioned the a/f... both of those are very similiar from 6000+, yet 018 (w/WI) hits 250 at ~6100 while 007 hovers around 230 at 6100 (w/o WI). I agree the top end isn't impressive with WI, but all that can be easily gained back with a smaller pulley.

Check out my overlay of w/WI and w/o WI: http://boostedmaximas.com/y2kevse/im..._sc3_total.jpg
The dyno guy and I played mostly with points 5500, 6000, and 6500. As you can see, WI gave me a whole lot of mid range power back, but the peak power wasn't impressive, like Jane's.


If it is true that we lose pressure with WI (it still puzzles me why this happens), then he definitely should've lost some peak power. We need to take a look at his mid range (scan in your graphs, Pablo! ) power. I don't think he tuned the car at that point, so 50/50 would make him run a bit rich, thus, losing peak power and then some.

I have my RAW files. Drop me an email and I'll give you everything.

 

It worked just fine. My J&S Gauge showed 4 dergees of retard from knock starting right around 6k. I dialed in the J&S to pull one dergee of timing per pound of boost starting at 5psi and the detonation stoped. I turned my AFC settings to zero so the car was rich. As far as fuel goes Robert Otoole, they guy who orchistrated this ECU thing with cheston actually said they mostly add'd fuel and timing is advanced up 3-4 degrees. It did feel a bit stronger in the mid rpms which is really what I am looking for. Hopefully I can get it dynoed to see if it actually helps, I think it does.

Unless the person tuning my FI ECU is doing it on a dyno with my car, they are just guessing. JWT's guess's are quiet conservative, they havent impressed me yet with a boosted Maxima. Look at the JWT Eiback Maxima, or I30Krab, both of these have mega money invested in mods and neither put down high power numbers relative to the money spent IMHO.

Standalone like Haltech is $1200 just to start, plus lots of time and some extras. If I had the time I would like to do this. I'll pass for now. If somthing like the Hondata system comes out for the Maxima I will take a serious look at it.

 

Glad it all worked out for you I still maintain that the fact that J&S adjusts timing post knock is scary to me, but if it works for you that's great.

Hmm, I JWT didn't occur to me.. Have you considered speedpro? it's supposed to be easier to tune than Haltech, my shop highly recommends it. Or you could try BCRS or whatever that is hogan's working on. I was under the impression that G-Force had a FI program for your car..

Have you considered adding either WI or a FMIC? Just curious I think either would work great in concert with the J&S. Problem is, you've now added another variable in your tuning more dyno time!

So when are we going to see some 12's from ya?

 

Do you really understand knock? Knock is not instantaneously distructive, catastrophic events like a stuck open nitrous solinoid aside, knock starts off slowly and builds. I did not here any detonation when I tested with the GF NA ECU, the J&S was pulling timing for inaudible detonation!!! The J&S has a sensativity adjustment so you can adjust how soon it picks up a knock event and how much it reacts to it. Remember now that it can pull up to 20 degrees of timing for knock plus any other timing retard you have dialed in for boost or nitrous! The J&S monitors EACH CYLINDER 125 TIMES PER SECOND!!! It will begin to knock for that first revolution then the J&S will retard the timing enough to stop the knock and hold it until it detects the knock is gone and slowley give the timing back 2 degrees per revolution until its back at zero. This is happening PER REVOLUTION!!!, think of how fast that is!!!

All that aside I think you missed the fact that after I adjusted the boost referenced ignition timing retard setting on the J&S to pull the appropriate amount of timing it dosent detonate anymore. The J&S is a great ignition tuning device because it will let you run timing as much advance as possible with out worring about knock. When you see that it is knocking you simply pull the timing back and you are set perfectlly! Optimal ignition timing is key to getting every last bit of power out of your motor.

Cut from the J&S Product Page...


Take the time to fully read this...
http://www.jandssafeguard.com/safeguard.html

I have tried WI and I lost a few tenths at the drag stip when using it.

I have considered an AWIC, check my homepage for my research project about it.

Track time is not easy for me to get, I have a family and they come first. So 12's can wait, I know the car is capable of it.

 

whoah! I'm not trying to bash J&S! I understand the product and think it's great. I also understand detonation. Excessive pressure or temperature of the intake charge lead to premature ignition of the air/fuel mixture in the combustion chambers. This causes pressures on your valves, valve stems, cylinder walls, rods, bearings, pistons, and crank, that are out of sync with the natural harmonics of your engine! Granted a little detonation here and there is not going to hurt you much. But in the long run it could cause damage. I was just saying that combined with a preventive element such as an intercooler, your J&S unit could provide you with real peace of mind!

 

Maybe I misunderstand you, but the J&S alone is all the preventive measure that is needed to protect the motor from detonation. It just sounds like you think the slightest detonation will cause damage. If the detonation is left uncontrolled it will, but using the J&S it will be put under control long before it reaches damaging levels. With out the J&S you would never know it was detonating till you could hear it which is usually the point at wich damage starts.

An intercooler is a luxury to me because it will not save the motor if it does start to detonate, the J&S will save the motor if it starts to detonate. This why I got it before I add more boost or juice. As far as detonation in the long run goes you are far more safe to use just a J&S then just an intercooler.

You are correct that a good intercooler and a J&S SafeGuard would be the ultimate! I really wish I was turbo charged because with the J&S and a good intercooler I could run the boost up allot more then I can with a Super Charger.

 

Like Matt said earlier, my horsepower did drop a few from about 322fwhp to about 311fwhp with the WI. I was also running a 50/50 water & alcohol mixture and a .09mm jet. Im also assuming that maybe fine tunning the WI I could prob regain some of those lost ponies. What I have done since is down the jet to .07mm and also change the mixture from 50/50 to 20/80. Hopefully on Monday I'll go back to the shop to try another dyno as soon as my new plugs go in as well. But I am seriously thinking of trying the retard box to prevent knocking and detonation. One downside of the WI that I ran into is that I cannot run the nitrous with the WI, assumptions that I may freeze the water running into the motor. I will do some more tunning on Monday or Tuesday, if the car responds well to the WI adjustments and the new plugs I will up the nitrous shot to a 50. Ill keep you guys informed.

 

Group deal on the J&S Electronics Ultra SafeGuard.

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?threadid=130453