New Product!! 4th Gen Delrin Control Arm Bushing Set
09-03-2010, 11:13 PM
#1
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New Product!! 4th Gen Delrin Control Arm Bushing Set
Enjoy spirited driving on the street or track?
Want improved handling and more precise steering?
Want to reduce or eliminate annoying suspension squeaks?
Then you need these Delrin Control Arm Bushings!
This 10 piece set of components is something that we have been testing and developing on several cars with varying levels of mods for a while. Real suspension upgrades on the Maxima have long been ignored, but we realize they’re critical in properly transmitting power to the tires as well as locating the suspension components to maintain alignment geometry during cornering.
These precision machined components remove the squishy freeplay and binding from the front pivots of the control arms, allowing the suspension to smoothly move up and down (where it should) instead of back and forth, and side to side (where it shouldn’t).
This kit can be used in conjunction with stock or urethane control arm bushing kits, due to the design of the rear bushing on the control arm. The main issue with rubber or urethane front bushings is that they are too soft and deflect significantly, even by hand! Under cornering loads they change shape, causing camber and toe in/out to be negatively affected. Under acceleration or braking, the soft bushings allow caster to change, and even contribute to wheelhop when launching hard. On top of all of that, the rubber and urethane bushings don’t turn smoothly, instead “grabbing” the pivot point (which causes dreaded squeaking) and adding an unknown spring rate into the equation.
Delrin bushings solve those issues by being a bearing that actually turns instead of deforming, yet still keeps the control arm geometry consistent. This makes the shocks do their job better, by responding smoothly to even the smallest imperfections in the road. Steering inputs now go into actually turning the wheels instead of compressing bushings first.
We realize that some people may think that these are only for track cars or will stiffen the ride on a street car, but that is simply not our experience with these. If anything, our test cars have felt smoother as the shocks soak up bumps better, with not a single noise coming from the suspension, where the urethane bushings use to squeak if they got dirty, ran out of lube, or even a change in weather! The increase in smoothness is obvious right off the bat, as one can swing the control arms up and down by hand. Smooth!
Installation of this kit it fairly simple and can be done in about 1 hour by those with a basic automotive tool set. The kit includes a diagram and complete instructions to make this a DIY project.
To give you an idea of where these pieces go, here’s a diagram of the 4g’s front suspension:
As you can see in the diagram above, the load from steering inputs and cornering feed directly into the front control arm pivot. You can imagine that it’s not something you want to have distorting and changing geometry with every bump and turn! If you’ve already gone through the trouble of upgrading tires, braking and suspension parts, why compromise it all with squishy rubber or urethane!
As an introductory sale, this kit is available immediately for only $79 shipped to the first 20 buyers! Please allow 10 days for them to be manufactured and packaged. You can submit payment through paypal to idsi.corp@gmail.com Please include year of the car and make sure your paypal mailing address is current.
Want improved handling and more precise steering?
Want to reduce or eliminate annoying suspension squeaks?
Then you need these Delrin Control Arm Bushings!
This 10 piece set of components is something that we have been testing and developing on several cars with varying levels of mods for a while. Real suspension upgrades on the Maxima have long been ignored, but we realize they’re critical in properly transmitting power to the tires as well as locating the suspension components to maintain alignment geometry during cornering.
These precision machined components remove the squishy freeplay and binding from the front pivots of the control arms, allowing the suspension to smoothly move up and down (where it should) instead of back and forth, and side to side (where it shouldn’t).
This kit can be used in conjunction with stock or urethane control arm bushing kits, due to the design of the rear bushing on the control arm. The main issue with rubber or urethane front bushings is that they are too soft and deflect significantly, even by hand! Under cornering loads they change shape, causing camber and toe in/out to be negatively affected. Under acceleration or braking, the soft bushings allow caster to change, and even contribute to wheelhop when launching hard. On top of all of that, the rubber and urethane bushings don’t turn smoothly, instead “grabbing” the pivot point (which causes dreaded squeaking) and adding an unknown spring rate into the equation.
Delrin bushings solve those issues by being a bearing that actually turns instead of deforming, yet still keeps the control arm geometry consistent. This makes the shocks do their job better, by responding smoothly to even the smallest imperfections in the road. Steering inputs now go into actually turning the wheels instead of compressing bushings first.
We realize that some people may think that these are only for track cars or will stiffen the ride on a street car, but that is simply not our experience with these. If anything, our test cars have felt smoother as the shocks soak up bumps better, with not a single noise coming from the suspension, where the urethane bushings use to squeak if they got dirty, ran out of lube, or even a change in weather! The increase in smoothness is obvious right off the bat, as one can swing the control arms up and down by hand. Smooth!
Installation of this kit it fairly simple and can be done in about 1 hour by those with a basic automotive tool set. The kit includes a diagram and complete instructions to make this a DIY project.
To give you an idea of where these pieces go, here’s a diagram of the 4g’s front suspension:
As you can see in the diagram above, the load from steering inputs and cornering feed directly into the front control arm pivot. You can imagine that it’s not something you want to have distorting and changing geometry with every bump and turn! If you’ve already gone through the trouble of upgrading tires, braking and suspension parts, why compromise it all with squishy rubber or urethane!
As an introductory sale, this kit is available immediately for only $79 shipped to the first 20 buyers! Please allow 10 days for them to be manufactured and packaged. You can submit payment through paypal to idsi.corp@gmail.com Please include year of the car and make sure your paypal mailing address is current.
09-09-2010, 06:53 AM
#7
Awesome product! I wanted to make a set for my gen for years but never got to it.. too bad I'm not driving that car anymore....
FYI, these bushings will work on all 3 and 4 gens and probably 5 gens as well. (I use the 4th gen Energy Bushing set on the front of my 3 gen- just trim the rear bushing and voila.)
FYI, these bushings will work on all 3 and 4 gens and probably 5 gens as well. (I use the 4th gen Energy Bushing set on the front of my 3 gen- just trim the rear bushing and voila.)
09-09-2010, 07:55 AM
#10
the washer goes on the other end of the bushing. you slide it in from one end of the control arm, then put the washer on the other end.
an easy way to provide greasability would be to cut a groove in it lengthwise, then drill a 1/8" hole through the control arm through the bushing and then into the groove. (this would necessitate the end user doing the drilling and aligning the groove properly, but that's not that hard.)
You could then put a grease nipple on the inner or upper side of the control arm where it won't get hit by road debris.
an easy way to provide greasability would be to cut a groove in it lengthwise, then drill a 1/8" hole through the control arm through the bushing and then into the groove. (this would necessitate the end user doing the drilling and aligning the groove properly, but that's not that hard.)
You could then put a grease nipple on the inner or upper side of the control arm where it won't get hit by road debris.
09-09-2010, 08:41 AM
#11
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They told me the actual materials is self lubricating. If you put grease it's just going to get debris stuck to it.
When I saw these in person, it much easier to understand. The material is super hard, but slippery and I don't see how it could make any noise. The "washer" is actually the lip for one side to keep the control arm centered. They show me a early prototype that had two small sections with the lip built in, but decided on the one-piece center section to make it stronger.
Too bad they can't make the rear bushing out of the same material. They said it too complicated and would have to be done on CNC machince, making price too high for Maxima guys!
When I saw these in person, it much easier to understand. The material is super hard, but slippery and I don't see how it could make any noise. The "washer" is actually the lip for one side to keep the control arm centered. They show me a early prototype that had two small sections with the lip built in, but decided on the one-piece center section to make it stronger.
Too bad they can't make the rear bushing out of the same material. They said it too complicated and would have to be done on CNC machince, making price too high for Maxima guys!
09-09-2010, 05:55 PM
#12
Nice product, might have to order them sometime in the future. For now I am tied up in the adjustable LCA project and do not know if these will fit the ACLAs. However the ACLAs do have grease fittings where these bushings would go and were designed to work with ES bushings. 
I like these bushings as they eliminate the last bit of slop in the suspension when cornering, provided the rest of the suspension and wheel bearings are in good shape. Then with straight line driving the rear rubber or poly bushing can still deflect when hitting bumps and still dive under braking.
On a side note you probally don't want that bigger rear control arm bushing to be delrin or aluminum. It never made it past the idea stage but the ALCAs were going to have a solid rear bushing/spherical front beaing setup. However we thought that the arms would have no where to deflect under load which may not perform in the desired manor.
I like these bushings as they eliminate the last bit of slop in the suspension when cornering, provided the rest of the suspension and wheel bearings are in good shape. Then with straight line driving the rear rubber or poly bushing can still deflect when hitting bumps and still dive under braking.
On a side note you probally don't want that bigger rear control arm bushing to be delrin or aluminum. It never made it past the idea stage but the ALCAs were going to have a solid rear bushing/spherical front beaing setup. However we thought that the arms would have no where to deflect under load which may not perform in the desired manor.
09-10-2010, 06:07 PM
#13
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Hello,
Delrin is self-lubricating, you'll understand when you get it and feel it, it doesn't bind like polyurethane, and doesn't need lubrication.
Bushings will ship within a few days of ordering!
Thanks!
Delrin is self-lubricating, you'll understand when you get it and feel it, it doesn't bind like polyurethane, and doesn't need lubrication.
Bushings will ship within a few days of ordering!
Thanks!
09-20-2010, 05:23 PM
#17
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Just got these installed in the morning! It's definitely worth the wait guys, big improvement even over the Energy bushings.
Steering feels quicker, and I got a change to see how smooth the control arm pivots when the car was in the air. With the urethane bushings it still took a bit of effort to swing the control arm up/down and I was still able to move it side to side a little. After the Delrin bushings, the control arm swings smoothly like it on bearings! But absolutely no movement side to side or front/back.
I guess the shop had delay's with the supplier of the steel sleeves, but they are putting together kits for Carnal_C30. They working on something for rear beam too, woot!
Steering feels quicker, and I got a change to see how smooth the control arm pivots when the car was in the air. With the urethane bushings it still took a bit of effort to swing the control arm up/down and I was still able to move it side to side a little. After the Delrin bushings, the control arm swings smoothly like it on bearings! But absolutely no movement side to side or front/back.
I guess the shop had delay's with the supplier of the steel sleeves, but they are putting together kits for Carnal_C30. They working on something for rear beam too, woot!
09-29-2010, 09:14 AM
#22
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Last I talked to Carnal, he said there were several orders and the machine shop will be delivering them soon. But some people are flaking out, and that screws up the batch orders from the machine shop.
Just be patient guys, it's a great mod.
Just be patient guys, it's a great mod.
09-29-2010, 11:12 AM
#23
As someone who has them installed, what is your driving impression regarding them? Is there a noticeable difference? Does it make the ride stiffer, introduce more road noise? What is your overall take on them?
10-01-2010, 10:41 PM
#24
Looking at Energy Suspension's product for LCA Bushings for 4th and 5th gen, I believe these may fit the 5th gen.
4th Gen LCA Bushings
http://www.energysuspensionparts.com...?prod=7%2E3111
5th Gen LCA Bushings
http://www.energysuspensionparts.com...?prod=7%2E3118
Click at "In The Box" tabs for both 4th and 5th gen you will see 4x of 2395 bushings. These are the bushing that are being replaced with this Delrin Control Arm Bushing Set.
Hey carnal_30 - Is the price for $79 still good? I may want to try this on my 5th gen.
4th Gen LCA Bushings
http://www.energysuspensionparts.com...?prod=7%2E3111
5th Gen LCA Bushings
http://www.energysuspensionparts.com...?prod=7%2E3118
Click at "In The Box" tabs for both 4th and 5th gen you will see 4x of 2395 bushings. These are the bushing that are being replaced with this Delrin Control Arm Bushing Set.
Hey carnal_30 - Is the price for $79 still good? I may want to try this on my 5th gen.
10-06-2010, 03:43 PM
#26
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Looking at Energy Suspension's product for LCA Bushings for 4th and 5th gen, I believe these may fit the 5th gen.
4th Gen LCA Bushings
http://www.energysuspensionparts.com...?prod=7%2E3111
5th Gen LCA Bushings
http://www.energysuspensionparts.com...?prod=7%2E3118
Click at "In The Box" tabs for both 4th and 5th gen you will see 4x of 2395 bushings. These are the bushing that are being replaced with this Delrin Control Arm Bushing Set.
Hey carnal_30 - Is the price for $79 still good? I may want to try this on my 5th gen.
4th Gen LCA Bushings
http://www.energysuspensionparts.com...?prod=7%2E3111
5th Gen LCA Bushings
http://www.energysuspensionparts.com...?prod=7%2E3118
Click at "In The Box" tabs for both 4th and 5th gen you will see 4x of 2395 bushings. These are the bushing that are being replaced with this Delrin Control Arm Bushing Set.
Hey carnal_30 - Is the price for $79 still good? I may want to try this on my 5th gen.
$79 still good, we will try to get a 5th gen set made, the dimensions are slightly different!
10-06-2010, 03:45 PM
#27
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Trying to get a more reliable ETA on these!
thanks!
10-12-2010, 12:43 PM
#29
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10-13-2010, 06:41 PM
#30
10-13-2010, 07:14 PM
#31
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They're also getting ready to release the 4 and 5g rear suspension upgrades to compliment the improved front end.
10-20-2010, 09:09 AM
#36
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I guess I'll post my impressions after driving on them for about a month.
First of all, just having the parts in my hands I noticed how precisely machined all the parts are. The steel sleeve fits into the Delrin bushing perfectly without binding, but no freeplay at all. The bushing material feels "slippery" but not at all soft. I guess this is why they recommend not putting grease, which would just make dirt stick to it. Supposedly even the washers for each end are custom made because there nothing available off-the-shelf to fit the front control arm mount!
Install only took about 30 minutes, but I already had ES bushing kit. They removed the big nut in front of the control arm, then the 3 big bolts holding the large grey pin that goes through the front bushing. Removed the pin, pushed the ES bushings and sleeves out, pushed in the new Delrin bushings with steel sleeves already in them. Caution, they told me the steel sleeve needs to be in the Delrin before putting into the arm. They're saying the bushing compresses a tiny bit and the steel sleeve might be hard to push in after. On the gray pin, they put one of the steel washers, then the Delrin thrust washer, put the pin through the Delrin bushing/sleeve, and another steel washer before tightening the big nut.
The improvement was noticed before the car even touched the ground. With the control arm installed on the car, but no suspension or sway bar attached, I was able to swing the arm up and down pretty easy. Before, with the Energy Suspension urethane bushings, the arm would hang at whatever position you put it because there was so much binding. I can still feel a little resistance from the rear FCAB (front control arm bushing) but not much because it's not bolted down like the front.
After installation, I drove the car for a few miles around the shop. Keep in my mind I also have the subframe collars, if it makes a difference. Even making my way out of the parking lot, I could feel the steering had less play when I wiggle the steering wheel in the center position. I did some slalom down an empty road about 40mph, and the car responded quicker side-to-side.
Then I did some straight line testing (on a closed course
). With my supercharger, the car pulls pretty hard and I used to feel some torque steer, especially when one tire would go over bump. That mostly seems to have gone away, and definitely feels like the arms aren't moving front to back anymore. Launching from a stop, I used to get crazy wheelhop, shaking my dash and it felt like something was going to break! Now, the car grips better and if the tires break loose it's just a smooth tire spinning and then they hook up and grab.
Under hard braking from about 100mph to 40mph, there is definitely much better feel. With the stock and even urethane bushings, the car would twitch to the side under heavy braking, keep in mind I have a AP racing BBK and Falken RT615 which slow down hard! My alignment is 0 toe, so i think it was the squishy bushings allowing the arms to move back and giving toe out under braking, so it was twitchy. With the Delrin FCAB's, there is not twitching and I can feel exactly when the tires are going to lock up.
On the freeway, it pretty much feels the same under regular driving. Going over bridges feels smoother when the car jumps up then down at the end of the bridge. The tires seem to follow the road lines less, maybe because the control arms stay straight now. No increase in road noise that I can tell, and I never heard any clunking, or squeaking that I would get with the ES bushings.
Overall, I'm very satisfied with the upgrade. Can't wait for the next upgrade they put out!
Pros: Tight steering feel and faster response, smoother over rough textured roads, and no more squeaks when going over speed bumps. Actually feels like I made the front coilovers softer!
Cons: None IMO. If anything, just the fact that it makes me take turns at higher speeds to enjoy handling that I didn't think I could get out of my max!
I think it goes to show how soft the stock Maxima chassis is, that with all these "hard" upgraded parts, the car feels smoother than ever.
First of all, just having the parts in my hands I noticed how precisely machined all the parts are. The steel sleeve fits into the Delrin bushing perfectly without binding, but no freeplay at all. The bushing material feels "slippery" but not at all soft. I guess this is why they recommend not putting grease, which would just make dirt stick to it. Supposedly even the washers for each end are custom made because there nothing available off-the-shelf to fit the front control arm mount!
Install only took about 30 minutes, but I already had ES bushing kit. They removed the big nut in front of the control arm, then the 3 big bolts holding the large grey pin that goes through the front bushing. Removed the pin, pushed the ES bushings and sleeves out, pushed in the new Delrin bushings with steel sleeves already in them. Caution, they told me the steel sleeve needs to be in the Delrin before putting into the arm. They're saying the bushing compresses a tiny bit and the steel sleeve might be hard to push in after. On the gray pin, they put one of the steel washers, then the Delrin thrust washer, put the pin through the Delrin bushing/sleeve, and another steel washer before tightening the big nut.
The improvement was noticed before the car even touched the ground. With the control arm installed on the car, but no suspension or sway bar attached, I was able to swing the arm up and down pretty easy. Before, with the Energy Suspension urethane bushings, the arm would hang at whatever position you put it because there was so much binding. I can still feel a little resistance from the rear FCAB (front control arm bushing) but not much because it's not bolted down like the front.
After installation, I drove the car for a few miles around the shop. Keep in my mind I also have the subframe collars, if it makes a difference. Even making my way out of the parking lot, I could feel the steering had less play when I wiggle the steering wheel in the center position. I did some slalom down an empty road about 40mph, and the car responded quicker side-to-side.
Then I did some straight line testing (on a closed course
). With my supercharger, the car pulls pretty hard and I used to feel some torque steer, especially when one tire would go over bump. That mostly seems to have gone away, and definitely feels like the arms aren't moving front to back anymore. Launching from a stop, I used to get crazy wheelhop, shaking my dash and it felt like something was going to break! Now, the car grips better and if the tires break loose it's just a smooth tire spinning and then they hook up and grab.Under hard braking from about 100mph to 40mph, there is definitely much better feel. With the stock and even urethane bushings, the car would twitch to the side under heavy braking, keep in mind I have a AP racing BBK and Falken RT615 which slow down hard! My alignment is 0 toe, so i think it was the squishy bushings allowing the arms to move back and giving toe out under braking, so it was twitchy. With the Delrin FCAB's, there is not twitching and I can feel exactly when the tires are going to lock up.
On the freeway, it pretty much feels the same under regular driving. Going over bridges feels smoother when the car jumps up then down at the end of the bridge. The tires seem to follow the road lines less, maybe because the control arms stay straight now. No increase in road noise that I can tell, and I never heard any clunking, or squeaking that I would get with the ES bushings.
Overall, I'm very satisfied with the upgrade. Can't wait for the next upgrade they put out!
Pros: Tight steering feel and faster response, smoother over rough textured roads, and no more squeaks when going over speed bumps. Actually feels like I made the front coilovers softer!
Cons: None IMO. If anything, just the fact that it makes me take turns at higher speeds to enjoy handling that I didn't think I could get out of my max!
I think it goes to show how soft the stock Maxima chassis is, that with all these "hard" upgraded parts, the car feels smoother than ever.
Last edited by speedymax99; 10-20-2010 at 09:13 AM.
10-25-2010, 11:31 PM
#38
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So how's it going with these?
I am really waiting for the new product they will release, but they waiting to see if Maxima guys support the stuff they already make. It's really pathetic to see this lack of support from the Maxima community to the few vendors that are actually willing to make stuff for our cars.
I am really waiting for the new product they will release, but they waiting to see if Maxima guys support the stuff they already make. It's really pathetic to see this lack of support from the Maxima community to the few vendors that are actually willing to make stuff for our cars.
10-26-2010, 02:19 PM
#40
So how's it going with these?
I am really waiting for the new product they will release, but they waiting to see if Maxima guys support the stuff they already make. It's really pathetic to see this lack of support from the Maxima community to the few vendors that are actually willing to make stuff for our cars.
I am really waiting for the new product they will release, but they waiting to see if Maxima guys support the stuff they already make. It's really pathetic to see this lack of support from the Maxima community to the few vendors that are actually willing to make stuff for our cars.
I'll be purchasing a set of these after I get my collars installed. Thanks.Bring on the custom parts!!
