MetaOrbit

iTrader: (19)

So, as many of you know, we seem to have problems with warped rotors on our cars.

I've had warped rotors and re-surfacing jobs more than I can count. The last time they were warped I went so far as to change the pads and switch to cryogenically frozen rotors from frozenrotors.com. Well, even those warped, and too thin to be re-surfaced at that.

Since I hate to pour money into things that are proven not to work, I thought I'd try something else.

The answer (hopefully) are the rotors, calipers, and pads from a 6th Gen Maxima. The calipers are beefier, the pads are larger, the rotors are 12.6" in diameter and thicker than the stock ones too. Best of all, these components bolt right up to our cars with no modifications.

I bought the calipers, pads, and caliper hardware kits brand new from Dave B, and bought some slotted, zinc plated 6th gen rotors from Auto_max95 in the group deals forum.

The braking seems to be better, and the car really bites down hard if I get on it. I won't know whether my warping issue has been solved until much later on, but I think things will be better. Already, the rotors seem cooler than the stockers after some spirited running and braking.

Everything seems to be working fine, though my pedal feel is noticeably different. The system has been bled 3 times though, with no air to come out. I can only chalk the difference in pedal feel up to the larger equipment up front.

Anyways, here is the sole pic. I've driven through 2 thunderstorms since the install, so please forgive the filthiness of the car.

naijai

iTrader: (1)

me want an I35 now

CreativeDesignz

iTrader: (3)

that tire looks a little low. btu other than that those look sweet!!!

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

More pics would be nice.

So, the pedal feel you're experiencing is more of a .."Feels like brakes need bleeding" feel?

What size are your tires?

MetaOrbit

iTrader: (19)

Tires are 225/50/17

Pedal feel is...different. The pedal's not falling to the floor, and it doesn't feel spongy, it just feels...softer. It's hard to describe. I thought bleeding would help, and I had the techs bleed it one more time, me watching, and no air came out.

I will say though, before I took it back to them to have it bled for the 3rd and final time, the pedal was falling to the floor and there was literally no braking until the pedal hit the floor when the brakes would lock up and ABS would kick in. I took it back to them have it bled, no air came out, they took the car for a test drive, and the pedal was back up. I really don't know why that happened. They couldn't quite explain it either. They hypothesized that something tripped up a "metering valve" in the master cylinder and that it became unstuck and started working again.

So, yeah, I guess it might feel as though it needs to be bled, it just really feels soft. I don't know that another bleed will solve anything though, as no air came out from the last couple bleeds.

MetaOrbit

iTrader: (19)

Yeah, I knew someone would mention that LOL

It got real cold here this morning, the tires were already a little low to begin with, so they're now REALLY low. When I get a chance I'll pump them back up.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Try bleeding the back and then the front. But if the calipers have more piston area, then pedal travel will increase a bit. But even with my huge 4 piston calipers, my pedal travel increase is very slight.

MetaOrbit

iTrader: (19)

Not doubting you - but curious - why bleed the rear and then the front? Why would that work over the bleeding in the order recommended by the FSM (as they were)?

oldngivout

iTrader: (8)

You bleed the system from rear to front to move all the air closer to the master cylinder. It is easier to remove it all this way. The sequence is RH rear, LH rear, RH front, LH front.

Also, if the lines were disconnected from the calipers for a while, the ABS actuator may have also gotten air inside. My experience has been that the ABS system needs to be actuated, as in a panic-type stop on a wet surface. A dry surface would work as well, but you run the risk of flat spotting the tires. Then bleed the entire system again.

I know this sounds crazy and is a lot more trouble, but I have seen it restore the hard pedal to an otherwise sound brake system.

NewLoveI30

It would probably be the master cylinder if the pedal is going to the floor... But if it corrected it's self... maybe a sticky valve inside the master cylinder?

MetaOrbit

iTrader: (19)

Yeah, the techs thought the latter. I'd be inclined to agree, as I never had a problem like this before the new parts and system flush. No reason why the MC should spontaneously fail when fluid and components are replaced.

leeI35

Hmm. I want to do a brake upgrade too but I am so undecided on which way to go. I have only had one problem with my rotors and that was because I pretty much had to kill my brake pads to avoid an accident on my first couple of hundred miles. I got the warped rotors fixed and no problem since. I just reached 9800 miles so, I guess time will tell. I do want sloted or crossed drill rotors with hawk pads just for cosmetic looks.

Looks nice meta. Are you going to paint the calipers??

MetaOrbit

iTrader: (19)

Yeah, painting is in the plan, but I ran out of time last weekend. May not happen until next year as the cold weather is now beginning to set in.

But yeah, if I were you I'd hold off awhile on upgrading. No sense in replacing what you have now if it already works.

attomica

Looks nice. I've wondered if this sort of upgrade would work on a 2000 I30t too. Any insight on that, MetaOrbit? Also, would you mind telling us what the costs were for the parts from DaveB?

MetaOrbit

iTrader: (19)

It should work on your car. The only thing is whether the calipers will clear the spokes on the I30t wheels. They clear the spokes on mine with a few mm, they BARELY clear the spokes on 02-03 SE Maxima wheels, and they DON'T clear the spokes on the 00-01 17" Maxima wheels.

These are the prices DAVEB quoted me:

05 Front calipers- $62.14 each

Front rotors - $83.70 each

Hardware kit- $23.88 both sides


I didn't buy the rotors from him - I bought them from Automax_95 in the group deals forum (slotted, plated, rotors $138 shipped).

I did buy the pads from DAVEB. I don't have a quote on that, but the price was pretty reasonable.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

You have 2 options(one more than us A33B guys) ... go with only the rotor, or the entire set-up.

I'm not sure if they will clear your stock wheels though.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Strange, just installed mine yesterday and pedal feel has greatly increased for the better, and bite has substantially increased.

This is a very good upgrade for the price paid.

Though, the improvement may be due to the fact that my old brakes may have needed bleeding and were on VERY cheap AutoZone pads (don't ask, loooooooooong story )

MetaOrbit

iTrader: (19)

That's great to hear. I've discovered something new about the pedal feel - at high speeds the brakes seem to grab harder sooner with less effort than at low speeds. Only thing I can figure is that maybe EBD is playing a role there? I've had many panic stops lately (not by my choosing) and these brakes have not let me down. Pedal has never fallen to the floor, etc. I'm thinking that the pedal feel is just different. Nonetheless, I'll probably try to bleed them once more sometime soon. I can certainly say though, it sure seems like the car hauls to a stop much faster.

maxgangsta02

whats in this hardware kit? what about pads?

MetaOrbit

iTrader: (19)

Hardware kit included shims and spring clips if I remember correctly - but don't hold me on that because I'm not sure.

I'm using OEM Nissan 6th gen pads. Dave said the pads are supposedly ceramic, according to a rep they had stop by the parts dept.

n3985

iTrader: (36)

Maybe the softer pedal is due to a larger caliper? I mean, you still retained the stock brake cylinder, so the same amount of fluid is traveling to fill a bigger caliper, maybe that's why the feel is different? It is only a guess, with no mechanical or engineering background.

MetaOrbit

iTrader: (19)

Yeah, I shot some PMs to some of the brake experts around here and that seemed to be a common opinion. I have a feeling it's a combination of that plus maybe the different feel of ceramic pads.

PerfectVQ I30

i just finished my brake upgrade and it feels damn good and stops on a dime. I bought brembo sport slotted from tirerack, these are made of carbon/iron and resist warpin real good. Im using these with akebono proact ceramic pads and wow the stopping distance is awesome. Rotors are a lil pricey at 178 pair w/o shipping and pads are 49 but man what a difference for not getting bigger brakes.....

n3985

iTrader: (36)

Meta, won't a bigger caliper in the front with the stock caliper mess up the balance of the brake system? Like having more front bias? I was reading up on Stoptech's website and they said that when peeps install BBKs they always want to retain stock or close to stock brake balance. So they usually have a kit where the front's larger size won't affect the balance too much, or install a BBK in the rear too.

So with the 6th gen caliper and rotors up front, how well is the brake balance retained? Do you know? Thanks for the info

MetaOrbit

iTrader: (19)

I'm sure the bias is affected to some extent, but not enough to where the balance is completely lost. This is an off the shelf OEM single piston sliding caliper and rotor upgrade, so we're not dealing with too great an increase in caliper piston surface area from stock, nor is the rotor monstrously huge compared to the original one.

That said, when I'm going 80 and some ******** in front of me slams on his brakes to slow down to a stop to let people merge onto the freeway (happened last night), and I have to do a panic stop, ABS does engage on the fronts earlier, but only for a split second. ABS quickly reined it in and I could feel the rear braking as well.

That's just what I think based on what I've read. I'm by no means a braking expert, but that's my general understanding. I think my braking is improving from having calipers that are larger, and mounted further out from the hub, biting down on larger rotors, thereby increasing the braking torque. Again, conjecture on my part

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

These brakes feel really really great IMO...

Solid pedal, very strong bite .. ... And well, I'm not one for looks but they look great ...

Just curious, about how much caliper clearance (with repsect to the wheel) do you have MetaOrbit?

MetaOrbit

iTrader: (19)

I didn't measure, but it looked as though I had about 3 mm between the caliper and the spokes. Maybe a tad bit more..

mwbres

I can already feel a little steering wheel vibration when I apply the brakes on my I35 with only 16K (mostly highway) miles. Too bad the manufacturers give us such poor parts!

Replaced the front rotors on my old 99 Maxima with some inexpensive Wagner rotors and pads at around 30K miles. When I sold the car at >100K miles, the Wagners were just starting to warp.

Had the same problem with my wife's 2002 Accord at prox 20K miles. Here I used Brembo OEM replacement rotors and Wagner Thermo-Quiet pads. The combo has been very impressive -- no squeal or dust, with performace equal to or better than OEM. No, these are not high performance pads, but they use a backing plate that's bonded to the pad via a honeycomed plate. No separate plates, no anti-squeal combounds -- just quiet braking. And that's hwat my wife wants.

You may want to try vacuum bleeding using a setup like this Motive Products power bleeder: http://www.motiveproducts.com/02bleeders.html
I think our cars use the 1101 M/C reservoir adapter.

I just bought a kit with their 1105 and 1101 adapters, but haven't used it yet. I have a 55 Chevy with late 70s brakes that I plan to do this weekend.

MetaOrbit

iTrader: (19)

Thanks for the suggestion. The guys at the garage used vacuum bleeders twice and then did the old-fashioned 2-man pumper method as well.

And good news, I think, my hard pedal feel that I used to have is back! I don't know what changed, but it feels almost like normal now. Maybe the pads finally got broken in, or the coating on the rotors finally completely wore off. Nothing that I know of has changed. It was extremely cold last night, which was different, but I don't think that had anything to do with it (mostly because I can't think of any realm of possibility where that would make a difference).