Interesting article on intake differences
Interesting article on intake differences
This is from Tai Mai Shu.. he posted this in the 5th gen forum and I am reposting his post here
Tai Mai Shu wrote
In the latest issue of Honda Tuning , the did a comparo of 9 different intakes, but what was interesting was they went scientific. They put the various intakes on a flow bench plus they took temperatures of outside, underhood, coolant and Intake air temperature sensor in the intake (via tapping into the OBD-II). The actual numbers aren't that important here, but the conclusions were very interesting (some of which we already suspect, but here it is proven).
1) Any intake whether short ram or CAI is better than stock. Stock is designed to be quiet, not efficient. Too many bends and baffles equal poor air flow volume. (237 CFM)
2) A short ram intake (ie: Franken, Berk) flows more air than a CAI, (avg 345 CFM) easy to install, but because of underhood temps, produce less HP. In the article, with a ambient outside temp of 78 degrees, underhood temps were 110 degrees at 80 MPH. Idle temp would be over 130 degrees. The temperature at the intake temperature sensor would average 125 degrees.
3) A CAI (ie: Place Racing, Injen) flows less air than a ram (325 CFM), is harder to install and more expensive. Average temps at the intake sensor was around 98 degrees.
Power results: The CAI's and ram intakes they tested all produced more HP than the stock intake, but the CAI's put out twice as much power(in this case 9.2 hp vs around 20 hp).
Before you guys flame me for reading a Honda Magazine, let me say first, put your little thing back into your pants and stop having such a myopic view on cars. Two points here, one is always know everything about the competition, whether it is business, racing or even war. Next, I purchased the magazine for this article because it would apply to all cars, not just Hondas.
Just some nice info to have
Tai Mai Shu wrote
In the latest issue of Honda Tuning , the did a comparo of 9 different intakes, but what was interesting was they went scientific. They put the various intakes on a flow bench plus they took temperatures of outside, underhood, coolant and Intake air temperature sensor in the intake (via tapping into the OBD-II). The actual numbers aren't that important here, but the conclusions were very interesting (some of which we already suspect, but here it is proven).
1) Any intake whether short ram or CAI is better than stock. Stock is designed to be quiet, not efficient. Too many bends and baffles equal poor air flow volume. (237 CFM)
2) A short ram intake (ie: Franken, Berk) flows more air than a CAI, (avg 345 CFM) easy to install, but because of underhood temps, produce less HP. In the article, with a ambient outside temp of 78 degrees, underhood temps were 110 degrees at 80 MPH. Idle temp would be over 130 degrees. The temperature at the intake temperature sensor would average 125 degrees.
3) A CAI (ie: Place Racing, Injen) flows less air than a ram (325 CFM), is harder to install and more expensive. Average temps at the intake sensor was around 98 degrees.
Power results: The CAI's and ram intakes they tested all produced more HP than the stock intake, but the CAI's put out twice as much power(in this case 9.2 hp vs around 20 hp).
Before you guys flame me for reading a Honda Magazine, let me say first, put your little thing back into your pants and stop having such a myopic view on cars. Two points here, one is always know everything about the competition, whether it is business, racing or even war. Next, I purchased the magazine for this article because it would apply to all cars, not just Hondas.
Just some nice info to have
Dyno plot says I have the most area under the Administrator curve
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 7,064
My copied reply from the original 5th Gen thread...
=============
See, this is BS, and it's also why I have little to NO respect for these so-called "tuning" magazines 
A friend of mine did this EXACT SAME TEST with a thermocouple on his intake which he wired into his car, and the underhood temp while moving was EXACTLY the same as the outside air temperature. Only while stopped completely did the under hood temps rise, and even then, once about like 5 mph they'd drop down to outside temps in a matter of seconds.
More rubbish.
What kind of Honda gains 20HP from a CAI intake when a Short Ram gains only 10HP. I'm gonna have to stop and look at this mag tomorrow because something is definitely hokey here.
Keep in mind that the whole point of these mags is to sell advertising and to SELL PRODUCTS. Obviously intake manufacturers will want you to think that you're getting your money's worth by paying TWICE as much for a CAI by trying to make you think you'll get TWICE the gains. But I smell a big fat juicy load here...
Maybe to get the "20HP gain vs 9.2" on the CAI, they took the damned filter head off, which is what I suspect they did
Don't believe everything you read, folks...
Anyhow Tai Mai Shu, I'm not flaming you. Thanks for posting this. But there are some definite technical holes in this article, and whadayaknow...it's from a Honda-related magazine. I'll check it out for myself tomorrow, though.
BTW, I just thought I'd add that there has been NO noticeable difference in dyno results between the CAI and Short Ram intakes on Accord V6's with the 3.0L VTEC V6 engine. Both gained about 8-10 fwhp regardless of which intake it was. I don't know where the f!ck this 20 fwhp number is coming from in this article unless they're pulling a fast one.
Does Honda make any 6.0L engines?
=============
Originally posted by Tai Mai Shu
2) A short ram intake (ie: Franken, Berk) flows more air than a CAI, (avg 345 CFM) easy to install, but because of underhood temps, produce less HP. In the article, with a ambient outside temp of 78 degrees, underhood temps were 110 degrees at 80 MPH. Idle temp would be over 130 degrees. The temperature at the intake temperature sensor would average 125 degrees.
2) A short ram intake (ie: Franken, Berk) flows more air than a CAI, (avg 345 CFM) easy to install, but because of underhood temps, produce less HP. In the article, with a ambient outside temp of 78 degrees, underhood temps were 110 degrees at 80 MPH. Idle temp would be over 130 degrees. The temperature at the intake temperature sensor would average 125 degrees.
A friend of mine did this EXACT SAME TEST with a thermocouple on his intake which he wired into his car, and the underhood temp while moving was EXACTLY the same as the outside air temperature. Only while stopped completely did the under hood temps rise, and even then, once about like 5 mph they'd drop down to outside temps in a matter of seconds.
Originally posted by Tai Mai Shu
Power results: The CAI's and ram intakes they tested all produced more HP than the stock intake, but the CAI's put out twice as much power(in this case 9.2 hp vs around 20 hp).
Power results: The CAI's and ram intakes they tested all produced more HP than the stock intake, but the CAI's put out twice as much power(in this case 9.2 hp vs around 20 hp).
What kind of Honda gains 20HP from a CAI intake when a Short Ram gains only 10HP. I'm gonna have to stop and look at this mag tomorrow because something is definitely hokey here.
Keep in mind that the whole point of these mags is to sell advertising and to SELL PRODUCTS. Obviously intake manufacturers will want you to think that you're getting your money's worth by paying TWICE as much for a CAI by trying to make you think you'll get TWICE the gains. But I smell a big fat juicy load here...
Maybe to get the "20HP gain vs 9.2" on the CAI, they took the damned filter head off, which is what I suspect they did
Don't believe everything you read, folks...
Anyhow Tai Mai Shu, I'm not flaming you. Thanks for posting this. But there are some definite technical holes in this article, and whadayaknow...it's from a Honda-related magazine. I'll check it out for myself tomorrow, though.
BTW, I just thought I'd add that there has been NO noticeable difference in dyno results between the CAI and Short Ram intakes on Accord V6's with the 3.0L VTEC V6 engine. Both gained about 8-10 fwhp regardless of which intake it was. I don't know where the f!ck this 20 fwhp number is coming from in this article unless they're pulling a fast one.
Does Honda make any 6.0L engines?
SteVTEC- it's ok man..lol... i was just helping put this info out there as well as tai mai shu..lol
But on a side not.. I have found the CAI works best for me.. and I have tried the hybrid
but 20 HP for an intake seems kind of high...
unless they are talking about a NOS filled intake
But on a side not.. I have found the CAI works best for me.. and I have tried the hybrid
but 20 HP for an intake seems kind of high...
unless they are talking about a NOS filled intake
Re: Re: Re: Interesting article on intake differences
Originally posted by mzmtg
...well they aren't...
...well they aren't...
For anyone that has it: What does the Injen sound like? is it too loud/soft? also I have read that the franken is loud, what is it like compared to the injen, for people who have heard both?
Thanks,
Dan
what about stickers on the intake.. they must be good for at least 5 at the crank..
injen is better than a pop charger but not as good as a TRUE CAI..
(i had a pop and now i have a injen)
the injen air filter is still in the engine bay.. lower in engine, but still in hte engine bay..
true CAI are in the fender well
injen is better than a pop charger but not as good as a TRUE CAI..
(i had a pop and now i have a injen)
the injen air filter is still in the engine bay.. lower in engine, but still in hte engine bay..
true CAI are in the fender well
Originally posted by redmaxpa007
what about stickers on the intake.. they must be good for at least 5 at the crank..
what about stickers on the intake.. they must be good for at least 5 at the crank..
so if that is the case.. juding your car and ALL the stickers it has you should be at about 300 WHP.. correct?
Originally posted by bags533
so if that is the case.. juding your car and ALL the stickers it has you should be at about 300 WHP.. correct?
so if that is the case.. juding your car and ALL the stickers it has you should be at about 300 WHP.. correct?
so i am back to normal HP now..
Handsome
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,074
Many people say that PRCAI and Pop Charger or Hybrid(SHORT RAM ) pull in the same temp air once the car is moving. I have seen some posts that say they have done it and it's true, and others that I have seen show that their is little change in under hood temp while moving.
Then people say that the INJEN intake is not a cold air intake because it takes in hot air from the radiator.
When I was looking for a place to route my intake so that it would take in outside air there was no place on the front of the car to route this. Unless I took out a headlight the radiator covered every possible opening, leading me to believe that any air coming into the engine bay would have to go through the radiator, but didn't people rag on the Injen because the radiator blows hot air?
So where does ALL this air come from that it can cool such a hot place as an engine that is covered by a hood (heat rises) Underneath the car? I wouldn't think that with the covering it would have any effect on the area by the intake, and the intake sits at the top meaning that air has to pass over a hot block to get there.
*Could someone please tell me the advantage of Hybrid (short ram ) intakes. I know pop chargers have no piping but draw in hot air, and that CAI draw in cool air but have extra piping, So why is it called hybrid when it has both draw backs, wouldn't a hybrid draw in cool air and have less piping?
Another post mentioned that it doesn't matter once the manifold heats up. Does your manifold get hot? Granted it's cold outside right now but I drove my car about 60 miles last night around town, out of curiousity I put my hand over the manifold to see if I could feel any radiant heat, I couldn't so I touched it and it wasn't even hot? The only thing I have done to the intake is bypass the resinator with a three inch pipe, and 4 inch scoup located under the car (it faces forward and hopefully draws some of the massive amount of air thats going under the car.) Has anyone noticed a difference between manifold temp when going from HAI to CAI.
) pull in the same temp air once the car is moving. I have seen some posts that say they have done it and it's true, and others that I have seen show that their is little change in under hood temp while moving. Then people say that the INJEN intake is not a cold air intake because it takes in hot air from the radiator.
When I was looking for a place to route my intake so that it would take in outside air there was no place on the front of the car to route this. Unless I took out a headlight the radiator covered every possible opening, leading me to believe that any air coming into the engine bay would have to go through the radiator, but didn't people rag on the Injen because the radiator blows hot air?
So where does ALL this air come from that it can cool such a hot place as an engine that is covered by a hood (heat rises) Underneath the car? I wouldn't think that with the covering it would have any effect on the area by the intake, and the intake sits at the top meaning that air has to pass over a hot block to get there.
*Could someone please tell me the advantage of Hybrid (short ram
) intakes. I know pop chargers have no piping but draw in hot air, and that CAI draw in cool air but have extra piping, So why is it called hybrid when it has both draw backs, wouldn't a hybrid draw in cool air and have less piping?Another post mentioned that it doesn't matter once the manifold heats up. Does your manifold get hot? Granted it's cold outside right now but I drove my car about 60 miles last night around town, out of curiousity I put my hand over the manifold to see if I could feel any radiant heat, I couldn't so I touched it and it wasn't even hot? The only thing I have done to the intake is bypass the resinator with a three inch pipe, and 4 inch scoup located under the car (it faces forward and hopefully draws some of the massive amount of air thats going under the car.) Has anyone noticed a difference between manifold temp when going from HAI to CAI.
A CAI on a 4th gen Maxima exxagerates the loss in top end of the fixed manifold b/c of the fixed longer length manifold and then an even longer CAI tube attached to it. That's the main reason why a hybrid or any short ram intake performs better than it.
But now, with a proliferation of VIed 4th gens popping up, I bet you're going to see much less of a difference between the short rams and the PRCAI. Already one of the VI guys dynoed to compare Hybrid vs CAI. The diffference was smaller. The Hybrid still produced the greatest peak hp but it wasn't as different as before. Also if you've dynoed before, you'll know that with the hood open, big fan etc, the hybrid has a much greater advantage for in-coming air than the CAI which is buried in the fender.
Here's one thread showing hybrid vs CAI;
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....ght=cai+hybrid
DW
But now, with a proliferation of VIed 4th gens popping up, I bet you're going to see much less of a difference between the short rams and the PRCAI. Already one of the VI guys dynoed to compare Hybrid vs CAI. The diffference was smaller. The Hybrid still produced the greatest peak hp but it wasn't as different as before. Also if you've dynoed before, you'll know that with the hood open, big fan etc, the hybrid has a much greater advantage for in-coming air than the CAI which is buried in the fender.
Here's one thread showing hybrid vs CAI;
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....ght=cai+hybrid
DW
Handsome
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,074
Originally posted by dwapenyi
A CAI on a 4th gen Maxima exxagerates the loss in top end of the fixed manifold b/c of the fixed longer length manifold and then an even longer CAI tube attached to it. That's the main reason why a hybrid or any short ram intake performs better than it.
But now, with a proliferation of VIed 4th gens popping up, I bet you're going to see much less of a difference between the short rams and the PRCAI. Already one of the VI guys dynoed to compare Hybrid vs CAI. The diffference was smaller. The Hybrid still produced the greatest peak hp but it wasn't as different as before. Also if you've dynoed before, you'll know that with the hood open, big fan etc, the hybrid has a much greater advantage for in-coming air than the CAI which is buried in the fender.
Here's one thread showing hybrid vs CAI;
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....ght=cai+hybrid
DW
A CAI on a 4th gen Maxima exxagerates the loss in top end of the fixed manifold b/c of the fixed longer length manifold and then an even longer CAI tube attached to it. That's the main reason why a hybrid or any short ram intake performs better than it.
But now, with a proliferation of VIed 4th gens popping up, I bet you're going to see much less of a difference between the short rams and the PRCAI. Already one of the VI guys dynoed to compare Hybrid vs CAI. The diffference was smaller. The Hybrid still produced the greatest peak hp but it wasn't as different as before. Also if you've dynoed before, you'll know that with the hood open, big fan etc, the hybrid has a much greater advantage for in-coming air than the CAI which is buried in the fender.
Here's one thread showing hybrid vs CAI;
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....ght=cai+hybrid
DW
I agree that having the hood open totally throws off dyno tests for HAI intakes. You have just opened up a huge source of fresh air, even if under hood temps are not an issue, the supply of air by having to hood up is not accurate because air flows from it's least restrictive source. I guarantee that all the air is coming in above the hood on Dyno's.
What about the cooling effect of driving. Any air coming into the engine bay will have to come throught the radiator or the small crack between the hood and body, even the front grill is blocked by the radiator.
Look at the Dyno's of the Hybrid (short ram) intake at their homepage. Print it and do overlays, they actually LOSE hp until 5000 rpm compared to the stock box. I still think that CAI is the way to go.
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