Hey guys, I hope someone out there can help me. I have done the search thing and have everything printed out on how to change the belt. With that said here is my problem.

I removed the timing belt covers and was going to set the engine at TDC for cyl number 1 in order to get ready to take old belt off. With engine at TDC for cyl number 1 as described in the Haynes manual, none of the markes line up. No matter how many times I rotate crankshaft the marks still do not line up.

So what I did was turn the crankshaft till it was lined up with its notch and took a peak at the distributor rotor. It was pointing at cylinder number 6, and guess what the left hand camshaft was lined up and the right hand camshaft was like 3 teeth to the right of the mark on the back of the timing belt cover.

Then I tried turning it around again and this time the back of the rotor was facing the number 6 clyinder location and the front was on 2 or 3, basically 180 difference.

By the way none of the marks on the timing belt itself lined up with any of the marks on the sprockets.

The car had been running fine as best I could tell. I do know that the last time it was changed, @ 120k miles, my Dad took it to the dealer and when it got back it was running funny. Took it to another dealer and they said timing was off and belt was on wrong. So he took it back to the first dealer who repaired it and said belt had jumped. Dad said it was better after that. So I've only started driving it since then, that is why I say it was driving ok, it could have been better beforehand.


So here are my questions,

1. Do I have to have the timing marks lined up when cylinder number 1 is at TDC or is it ok with it at cylinder number 6 like it almost is now?

2. Should I just put the new belt on now with the crankshaft mark and the left hand or Camshaft where they are lined up (on TDC Cyl 6) and then adjust right hand camshaft back about a 1/2 an inch or 3 or so teath to the mark since the car was running before?

3. Is it possible for the car to seem to run right with they way I found it?


Im just really puzzled as to why its all set to TDC of cyl number 6 and how things arent lined up as they should according to Haynes and chilton manual and all the posts on this forum. I am afraid I am going to screw it up and have to take it all back apart! I do have some pics I took of the situation and will try and see if I can post them somehow.

ok here is a link to the webshots site I opened with pics of what Im trying to describe.

http://community.webshots.com/script...bumID=64211704

Please help, car is in pieces in the driveway!

 

I would appreciate any ideas or tips you guys might have. Im pretty sure Im doing things right but there must be something wrong.

Is there anyway to adjust the crankshaftt relative to distributor anyway, or to you line them up on cyl 1 and crankshaft mark and only adjust camshaft sprockets if needed?

Thanks again, desperate for help.

 

It sounds like you have a problem. The marks on the crank and cam sprockets should all line up with their respective marks at the same time every other revolution, I think. As far as the marks on the belt lining up, I think they're mainly there as an installation aid. They don't necessarily have to line up with anything, they just help you to locate it when you first put it on. Here's what I would do if I were you. If you haven't done so already, remove the spark plugs, it's much easier to rotate the engine with them out. Then, turn the crank over till it's marks line up. You are using the mark on the sprocket and the mark on the oil pump housing at the 4:30 position aren't you? At that point, the cams are close aren't they. If so remove the belt and gently turn each cam till it's mark lines up. Then, without allowing any of the gears to move, install the new belt and adjust the tensioner. IMPORTANT - Next, rotate the engine slowly by hand with a socket at least two full revolutions to check for interference and make sure the marks line up when they come around again. If the engine comes to a sudden stop while you are turning it by hand, back up and check everything again. This means that a valve or valves are hitting a piston. If it turns over by hand freely, and the marks still line up, you've got it on correctly. You may have to move your distributor, or even pull it out, rotate it slightly, and reinsert it. Don't forget that the number one plug wire on the outside of the cap doesn't line up with the contact for it on the inside of the cap. They are offset from each other. Is it possible that the rotor is lining up with the number 6 wire on the outside, but is closer to the number one contact on the inside? Good luck. Oh yeah, you may want to change the water pump while you've got it apart, it's easier to do it now that to have to take it all apart again later.

 

Go back to basics.

Note: position references below based on :

1. clock position based on looking at timing belt from front (water pump end) of engine.
2. front cam pulley = towards front of car
rear cam pulley = towards rear of car


Remove ALL the plugs.

Do all the aligning below BEFORE the old belt comes off.

Set #1 cyl on TDC. Confirm by aligning punch mark on crank timing pulley with mark on engine casting (around 5 o'clock).

Both cam pulleys timing marks should line up with their respective marks on the covers behind the pulleys. The front cam pulley timing mark is around 1 o'clock and the rear cam pulley timing mark is around 11 o'clock.

There are 133 teeth on the timing belt.
There have to be 40 belt teeth between the timing marks on the cam pulleys.
There have to be 43 belt teeth between the front cam pulley timing mark and the crank pulley timing mark.
The rest (50) go between the crank pulley mark and the rear cam pulley mark (where the idler runs).

When ready loosen the idler and remove the old belt. Don't turn anything other than to align slightly.

The new belt should have 3 stripes on the flat side of the belt to act as alignment aids for belt installation. If there are none, don't worry - Just ensure you have the correct number of belt teeth between each of the pulleys. You could mark the belt yourself.

Watch out for cam pulley "jump" when the old belt is removed, caused by the valve springs turning the cam. You will likely have to rotated the cam pulleys back into postion to align properly. this will require some force (by hand only!) and an assistant to hold the belt in place. There is very little extra belt even with the idler slackened right off!

Do not turn any of the pulleys with the belt removed more than that necessary to get the belt on properly. Do not turn the crank pulley!

If the dist. is out it may be one tooth out on the crank gear. Remove and re-install to get #1 to line up. Make sure #1 is TDC.

Good Luck

Martin 90SE 5sp

 

Thanks for the reply guys.

I can get the crankshaft lined up with its mark at like 4:30 like one of you said, then the Rear camsprocket is lined up and the Front sprocket is off by three teeth.

The only time these marks line up is when distributor rotor is pointing to the point where it would make contact with cap that has a plug wire running to cylinder number 6. This is the part that confuses me.

Maybe I've got something wrong with TDC and cylinder no 1. If you have a chance you can go to the link in original post and see the pictures of what Im trying to describe.

could my distributor be that far off? The last time I check the timing with a timing light it was correct, and Im sure I had lead of timing gun clamped to plug wire for cylinder no 1.

Cylinder one should be the one in the rear closest to passenger side fender right? Thats what chilton/Hyanes says and acording to the numbers stamped on my dist cap says it number 1. Maybe I can put a compression tester in there at cyl number one and see if it shows compression when all marks are lined up ( and when it seems rotor is pointing to cyl no 6) if so then can I disregard what the rotor is pointing at and be confidant that Im at TDC for no. 1?

So far I havent taken the belt off or anything, just trying to make sure I can get things lined up before I take it off. I really dont want to have to put it all together to find out somethings wrong and have to start all over, I have to leave Tennessee in 2 days to go back to work in MA!

 

Look down in the no. 1 spark plug hole and you should be able to see the piston. Look at the cam lobes for no. 1 cylinder, the rocker arms should be on the heels (low point) of the cam lobes. If these two things check out, you're at TDC. I would then take the belt off, rotate the front cam sprocket until the marks line up and then install the new belt.

As for the distributor, I wouldn't think it would run like that, but look at the adjustment slot on the base of the distributor and see if it's bottomed out at one end or the other, indicating that someone compensated for it being off by one tooth maybe. I think it should normally be near the middle third of the slot to give you room to advance or retard the timing. You may have to take it out and move it a tooth or two.

By the way, the link to the pictures in your first message doesn't work. It says something about not being logged in. Try to fix that so we can take a look.

 

Hey thanks a bunch! I really appreciate the time you are taking to try and help out, Im racking my brain here. I will see if I can figure out what to do with the pictures or, to login just use my password, skshepherd100 and tinker for password. I thought I could use webshots to host the pictures. Is there a way to put them direction onto the forum message?

Thanks again!

 

By the way, the link to the pictures in your first message doesn't work. It says something about not being logged in. Try to fix that so we can take a look. [/B][/QUOTE]

Ok, this pic thing is almost as frustrating as the t belt!

This should work,
Go to webshots.com click on login and use member or login "skshepherd100" and then use "tinker" as password. Then click on "My Photos" and the album is "maxima"

Hopefully this will work if not I'd be happy to email them to you if you don't mind, but Im not sure of your email address. I understand if you dont want to give it out. If you have another idea on how to get the pics to work I'll do anything for some help!

Thanks again

 

I just thought of something. The distributor is driven off of the front cam I think, so that would explain why neither of them line up. After you get the crank and rear cam on their marks, remove the belt, move the front cam till it lines up, and that may solve the distributor problem. Of course you'll still need to move the base to maintain the ignition timing. You should be able to get it close enough by eyeballing it. Then adjust timing with a light once you get it started. I'll try looking at your pictures and will let you know if I see anything that you haven't mentioned.

 

What you just told me seems to be some very valuable info. I was thinking for some reason that the dist. was driven by the crankshaft.

I rotated everything so that the Front sprocket was lined up and the rotor was then pointing to cyl. no. 1.

I also confirmed that when crank sprocket was lined up that cyl 1 was at TDC.

So it seems to me to line up crank sprocket and Rear sprocket, then take belt off, align front sprocket to mark(which puts rotor at TDC no. 1) and then proceed as normal.

I just panicked since things weren't right when I took it all apart and the car seemed to have been running fine.

Thank you so much for your time and help. Im going to go give it a try.

 

Hey,

Car is back together and running great. Thanks so much for the help and the tips on getting things lined up. I dont know what I would have done otherwise. I really appreciate the help!

Thanks a million!
Steve

 

I've been checking the thread all evening. I hoped that no news was good news. If you weren't online asking for help, I figured you must've been working on it. I was just about to give up. I'm glad I knew enough about it to be of help. Does it seem to run better now? It's still amazing to me that it ran well enough like it was. Good work!

 

Hello!

You really did help, I was thinking that the rotor was driven by the crankshaft for some reason and that I'd have to pull the distributor to get things right, so moving the Front sprocket back three teeth lined it up.

I got it all back together and it started up. While letting it idle to warm up to refill coolant I went to rev the throttle and it ran like crap, it hesitated etc. I freaked out!!!! I was so disgusted, and tired, I couldnt imagine what I had done wrong. So, I gave in and decided to have my Dad tow me down to the dealer. I got to talking to the mechanic. I showed him the pics of what it looked like before and the history of how the last dealer had screwed it up. I told him what I had done relative to the pics I had and he said it sounded fine except that turning the cam sprocket backwards would have gotten it 180 off, but on retrospect if I had turned it clockwise to line it up I think that would have made it off 180. Anyway he was speculating while we were in the office. We walked outside to help get it in and he asked if it ran and I said, well yea, but kinda crapy. So he had me start it up, then he said start it again and he revved the throttle and said "Sir you did I fine job on your timing belt, sounds real good. Come here and look at something." I had removed the intake to get to the lower radiator hose and had unplugged the harness to the MAF and had forgotten to plug it back in!!!! Duh! He said it sounded real good and that I had everything put back in the right place. He sounded really surprised. He did say that there was a hum or whine due to the tensioner being a little tight but he said it wasnt bad and would loosen a bit. He agreed to double check everything and filled the car with coolant. The problem here was I had put some of the prestone 100k mile orange coolant in and he put the green stuff in. He noticed the color coming up and asked if I had put that orange stuff in. Aparently if you mix the two you get a sludge. The car warmed up and thermostat was in right and no leaks there or at H2o pump. He said I could flush it really easy or he could. I found out they charge 34.99 so I said they could do it cause I was plumb worn out. He even told me what the ticking sound behind my dash was, "Mode door actuator relay" and got out the FSM to show me where it was.

So to make a short story long, it worked out well, cause I had the two types of coolant at home and probably would have mixed them and I wouldnt have found out about the relay if I had realized I left the MAF harness unplugged.

Oh yeah, I think I know what happened last time the belt was changed. It jumped three teeth on the front cam and the dealer set the distributor all to one side to adjust the timing to split the difference so it would run ok instead of fixing the belt!!! This is what the other mechanic concluded.

Anyway its hard to keep things straight when your doing heart surgury on your car, Thanks to PKfinn for your help and everyone else. Hopefully I can return the favor some day!

Take care!

I'll let you know if I make it home to MA, Im leaving from TN this afternoon.