I have the Soundstream Van Gogh 500.4 (VGA500.4 --> bridged it's rated at 500W x 2 @ 4 ohms RMS)

I also have two Diamond 10D2 subwoofers. They are 10 inch dual (2 ohm) voice coil subs.

I have wired each sub on a seperate channel, and put the 2 ohm voice coils in series with each other...for a total of 4 ohms per channel.

I emailed Diamond, and told them my box size (0.68 cu feet) and they recommended 650W RMS. Not needing to blow away my neighbors I figured 500W RMS might do.

I can barely here these things...and if I turn the gain up to much, the cone starts clipping...

The company that is installing my system recommended that I get the Van Gogh 1600.1 instead of the 500.4

Is this going to help me? I think I would rather just downgrade the M6's to Diamond CM3's as they require less power.

thanks for the help

-vq

 

Well...an additional 1100w/rms does make a "little" diff. To the ear it will sound nearly twice as loud. I finally got my big amp in and am now pushing 1600w/rms to the sub. Its loud as hell, but it was loud as hell be4 when I only had 500w/rms going to it.
As far as bass goes, what exactly are you looking for? Do you want a setup that goes deep and can deliver lows that can be gutwrenching? Or do you want more of a flat sounding setup thats "tighter" Or do you want a compromise between both?
Given your choice of brands ive seen as of late, im sure you could afford a pair of DA TDX subs. Two 12's in a sealed box should get more then deep enough and still keep it tight. You going to have to give up a little trunk space though, id say atleast 1.5-1.75cu.ft for each sub should do just fine.

Maybe I should ask, are you willing to purchase other subs (or sub) and if so...give me a price limit

 

I'm definately looking for "tight" bass...no need for "resonating" bass.


about the 1100 RMS difference...

My amp when bridged already puts out 500 W per channel (1000 total)

so isn't that more like a 600W difference?

but because I can't put all 1600 Watts to those subs, I wouldn't turn the gain all the way up...

Diamond recommended 650W (when considering my enclosure size) and I am only giving it 500W.

So I figure if I step down to the CM3 (DA) that I will be about right on the money (in regards to having the right amount of power) Diamond says the CM3 is rated at 500W.



other brands?

I used to love Orion XTR DVC subs, but I haven't seen any around...

I have heard about every JL they make at about 4 different shops here in KC (WO - W7) and while I am impressed with their subs, the sound is not what I am looking for.

My delimma--the soundstream amp was bought online, so I'll have to wait a while to get the upgraded 1600W amp....I want music NOW!

the diamond subs? the place I bought them from has a **** poor return policy...I originally bought one 10D4, and when I wanted to trade it in for two 10D2's they didn't give me much of a hassle, but if I want to downgrade, I am afraid they might..

return the Diamonds for cash back? I highly doubt it.....

So I'm stuck with Diamonds of some sort (they also sell Memphis Eclipse MB Quart and Xtant)

well....

thanks for any more advice...

but does it seem right that a 650W sub is completely underpowered by 500W?

I would have thought that it would have been "decent" but this is horrible...

thanks

-vq

 

oh yeah....

budget?

I'm about at my limits with the budget....

-vq

 

Yeah you have been spending quite a bit on audio as of late.
Well, ill tell you this much, the install has everything to do with how the sub(s) sound. Giving a 650w sub 500w/rms isnt underpowering it much. I was giving my sub 500 when its rated at 1600rms/4800peak. Yeah I do have an insane sub but if the install sucked, then it wouldnt sound so good.
Try going with a bigger box, say your sub requires .75ft, well then give it 1.25-1.5 and it will work even better.
A friend of mine is kinda going through the same problem, he had two 12's in a ported box and recently went sealed and each sub has like .9ft and he hates it. Its accurate but doesnt go low.

My suggestion is get a larger box, you have enough power to make it loud. Power is overrated IMO. In a perfect world if you 2x the power the sub(s) will be 3db louder. Keep in mind every 6db is about 2x louder to the ear.

 

what could make an install a "bad" install?

besides the box?

the people that were selling me the subs were saying that a smaller box would provide tighter bass, and a larger box would give "boomier" bass...

I am looking for tighter bass...

in my old 1994.5 Sentra LE (1.6L 5 speed) I used to have two Infinity 10 "free air" subs in a large box...tight as hell..had Boston Pro Series 5.25 and tweets up front, and Infinity 6.5 coax's in the back...

I know free air subs are designed to not need a box...so by putting it in a big box, it was doing the same thing as putting the Diamonds (which require a box) in the small box.

the specs on the Diamond sub enclosure say 0.75 +/- 0.3 cubic feet...

and I really don't want to give up any more trunk space than I already have...

I think I will just take it to the people that sold me the Diamonds tomorrow...and go from there....maybe they'll let me exchange the M6's for CM3's and some hush mat...

-vq

 

something doesnt sound right. either you have ah earing problem or had a huge system before. 1000 watts is loud. sounds like sometrhing is wrong in the install. maybe a phase problem? are both subs moving fine? have to tuned it with your h/u and amp settings?

 

yes 1000 watts is alot, but watts do not equal dB.

if the subs are inefficient, and require a lot of power (such as my M6's) then 1000 watts may not be that loud.

my previous sub set-ups consisted of:

1) one Pioneer 12" (Jan 1994) don't remember the amp - [set up sucked]
2) two Orion XTR 8's in a bandpass box (summer 1994) LA Sound Malibu Amp [rocked] good only for rock and roll, couldn't play my snoop dog...
3) two Infiniti 10" free air in a large sealed box (summer 1995) weak Kenwood KAC [best bass set up I ever had...]
4) one Orion Cobalt 10" in sealed enclosure (summer 1998) MTX amp [decent]


my point?

these Diamonds should ROCK!

I wasn't the only person that thought something wasn't right...the install shop thought something was madly wrong too...they just couldn't figure it out.

-vq

 

For what its worth, I have a Soundstream EGA2300 (almost the lowest line of Soundstream products) feeding two 10" Type Rs. Its rated at 600x1 bridged mono into 4 ohms. And I think the subs sound great. Soundstreams are pretty good products, especially the Van Gogh series (from what I've heard).

What is your LPF set at? I've heard that if its too high, you can have problems with clipping from an already overpowered amp.

Dumb question, but you're sure the dual voice coil subs are wired in series right?

I agree with slickrick...sending 500W to a 650W sub shouldn't result in a can-barely-hear-them condition.

 

I would try experimenting with the phase of the subs. One of them might be out causing them to cancel each other.

I have a Soundstream TR500.4 that I used for the front end of my system. It's a great amp, but not a great sub amp. Too big, inefficient, and will not drive a 1 Ohm mono load when bridged.

 

I agree with some of the above posts, with the power going to them something HAS to be wrong somewhere. Not blaming you, but there is definately an issue. Ive installed dozens of M6s including my old Maxima. Mine were run by a PG Ti 600 and yes there was more than enough power. And yes those subs should pound.

Try checking polarity,outputs on the amp,leaks in the enclosure,pinched leads,etc...

--Don

 

I think a bigger box will do them justice.....around 7 years ago when the Solobarics used to be round(hehe) I had a 12 in powered by a Kicker ZR360 (still current sub amp) and the sub handled 425 watts/RMS and I decided to save space by putting it in the smallest recommended sealed enclosure by Kicker stardars (~0.6# cu/ft) and it sounded like shyt- as you memtioned above the bass was tight but didn't
handle the lows for what it was worth) So i built a 1.25 cu/ft box custom and the difference SPL wise was night ands day....

Small sealed enclosures require alot of power to make them sound as good as less power/bigger box combo-

 

update:

took the subs out of my car, and took them back to the place where I purchased them. they hooked them up to their amp, and it still clips...and doesn't get too loud - at all...

verdict:
they are replacing them under warranty.

looks like I had a pair of blown Diamond M6's



(about being wired in series)

yes, of course I'm sure; this was a professional shop doing the install, besides, even if it were me doing it, I was an Avionics Tech in the Marine Corps (worked on Cobra's and Huey's) so I know a thing or two about electronics....




(about box size...)

i can't even get tight bass with these right now...but the place I bought them from are replacing them. They say they're blown...because no matter what amp I put to them, they sounded like crap-ola... But in the store, they had a demo M6 in the SAME box, and it sounded great...

so we KNOW it's a pair of bad subs...this shops first pair of blown Diamonds.

-vq

 

good to know. update on how it sounds after some new subs are put in this time.

 

aren't you glad you didn't buy them off ebay?

 

I have 2 TDX 10's. I also have 2 D7 amps. I have the beefy 401 as my bass amp. It is "only" seeing 800 watts. It is plenty loud and very tight.

I can only hope that the new subs will work correctly. If you get 2 new ones and the sound doesn't improve.....you have a serious install/box problem.

Here is my setup:





I can tell you from first hand experience with Diamond Audio and any audio in general: It's all about the install. 500 watts is plenty is installed correctly. By going down to a weaker sub, will only net you weaker sound if the install is still weak. I've heard a wall of the entry level Diamond subs, that hit hard enough to be painful. Again, it was all about the install.

 

Well I guess in a way it turned out alright, good luck & do post and update

JAIMECBR900: That is a sick setup you got there, those D7 amps are anything but cheap man Overpriced & overkill...but I gotta admit, its a damn good install. Show worthy for sure

 

the latest

The shop that installed them was not the same shop that sold them to me (or I wouldn't have this problem) I took them to the shop that sold them to me to get the phase checked...

when they took the speakers out, they noticed a problem. (but it wasn't the phase)

Diamond has a sticker on the back of their speakers, covering a vent hole. The hole is about the width of a quarter, and goes through the entire magnet.

Why does it come with a sticker? I don't know. But the sticker is supposed to be removed before installation.


Anyway, the problem is fixed...it was the sticker on the back of the sub that says "remove before installation".

The sticker is clear plastic, and has white writing...the magnet is chrome...so I can see how it might have been hard to see, and when you consider the sub weighs about 20 lbs, Its understandable that they might not have wanted to flip the sub over and check for a sticker on the back of the magnet...it's pretty rare to have a sticker covering a part of the speaker that would keep it from working right.

I don't even know why they put the sticker there...but now they are pounding pretty damn good.

thanks for all the help

-vq

 

Ahhh so thats what happened! My sub came with that on it too. I kinda removed mine be4 install though I could imagine it wouldnt sound right with that thing on there
Your lucky the subs still work. That plastic peice is there to keep crap from getting inside, its just a packaging thing. It usually says something about it in the user manual.
Anyway, glad you got it figured out. Its kinda like saying Damnit my car wont start and you dont know why? Then you find out you got no gas in it

 

yeah, it was a real head slapper...

-vq

 

Crossover point, wiring, phase, damping, and probabably a slew of other things I'm too tired to think of right now. The position of the box can also be VERY important. My aperiodic box is mounted directly behind the seats and the trunk area is completely sealed off from the rest of the car. The resultant articulation is incredible...MUCH more detailed than any conventional box I've built for any of my previous cars.

BTW...I'm glad you got the problem figured out. I had a bad Dynaudio 8-inch midwoofer that was replaced under warranty. Very rare from what I've heard.

Tony

 

AMEN!! I wish more people understood this. It certainly would save them a lot of time and money!!!

Tony

 

Tony, did you read further? I think you still are under the impression that it was a blown sub...

I thought it was a blown sub, so did the shop that sold them to me, until I asked them to double check the phase, and then they found the problem...and it wasn't the phase...

the shop that installed them (not the same shop that sold them to me) forgot to take the stickers off of the vent hole on the back of the magnet.

crazy!

and they work fine..that shop in KC still has yet to see a blown Diamond sub....

-vq

 

I know I unfortunately have seen a few. Even including a TDX.

--Don

 

Yes, I did. I was just answering your question about "bad" installations and what some of the things you can do to make them bad.

Tony

 

They had to have done something really stupid to cause that either that or its a 1/1,000,000 defect

Tony:
Damn man, you got a sick setup I still am not 100% about the whole front-fire thing though. I was thinking about going with it, but figured the rear wave of the sub will catch up to the fronts at about the same time INSIDE the car. With a front fire, ive always found it to catch up at about the front of the car.
Now im kinda reconsidering it, if you could only see the flexing my sub puts out & the rattling it causes! youd just stand there with a look on your face.
Btw-how do you like those dyn's. I have considered that setup in the past, but I dont have much room to spare for the kick panels. Id probably end up breaking it

 

I hope you slapped the guy that did the install. Since many subs are shipped like that, any "experienced" installer should have checked to make sure there was no cap or cover over the vent. You're lucky you didn't burn out the voice coil.