If the CAI loses power . . . . .
If the CAI loses power up at the top of the rev band due to turbulent air flo in the piping, would changing the air filter that comes with the CAI to something like the JWT POP charger filter help at all?? I figure that part of the design of the POP charger was to create this vortex flo. Hmmm.
Any thougths or other ideas?? Or someone who has actually done it?? Or, is there an air filter out there that has metal fins such that it shapes the air flow into a circular pattern, thereby reducing the turbulence as it flos thru the CAI piping?? Do I think too much? 
DW
Any thougths or other ideas?? Or someone who has actually done it?? Or, is there an air filter out there that has metal fins such that it shapes the air flow into a circular pattern, thereby reducing the turbulence as it flos thru the CAI piping?? Do I think too much? DW
Guess I'm one of the lucky few who got the place racing adaptor kit for a JWT filter and velocity stack
http://www.voicenet.com/~breaux/car/cai/cai.html
http://www.voicenet.com/~breaux/car/cai/cai.html
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 755
This (vortex flo) is marketing crap. If you think what happens at the air filter has anything to do with the air flow where it passes the fuel injector, or enters the cylinder (the only places) it would count, I've got a bridge to sell you. Turbulent air flow through the MAF can cause problems, but only at idle type speeds.
Originally posted by brubenstein
This (vortex flo) is marketing crap. If you think what happens at the air filter has anything to do with the air flow where it passes the fuel injector, or enters the cylinder (the only places) it would count, I've got a bridge to sell you. Turbulent air flow through the MAF can cause problems, but only at idle type speeds.
This (vortex flo) is marketing crap. If you think what happens at the air filter has anything to do with the air flow where it passes the fuel injector, or enters the cylinder (the only places) it would count, I've got a bridge to sell you. Turbulent air flow through the MAF can cause problems, but only at idle type speeds.
There was alot of debate on laminar air flow on the Yahoo club message board, and I think in the end everyone agreed that the Velocity stack did help out. People started breaking out their Physics books and doing research.
Yes the filter with the velocity stack will help get a little more air into the pipe. However, I was the one who stated this orignal post concerning the CAI. The real problem isn't with the filter. About 10% of the problem is that the filter has no v stack. The 90% is that the pipe just bends too much and the filter is too far away from the throttly body. These bends are a restriction, much like exhaust bends are. It's just not a smooth direct shot of air. It twists in the pipes creating turbulence. There really isn't much you can do to improve the high end perforamnce of the CAI. Although you get significant better low end and mid end power from the CAI and it sounds better.
From my understanding it's like this.
JWT/Stillen cones need/should have the velocity stack becuase it helps straighten the airflow before it reaches the maf. It's very close to the maf so I think it's needed.
CAI: has a really long piece of pipe. By the time the air gets to the maf, it's already going in fairly even/consistant flow. So the maf should be getting a good reading.
Restrictions. As I understand it, the restrictions are in the pipes themselves and maybe the bends. It's kinda like pressure losses in a compressor's airhose. You get xxx pressure drop for every xxx length of xxx sized airhose you have. Bends might affect this too but I suspect it's much more from the length of the pipe itself.
JWT/Stillen cones need/should have the velocity stack becuase it helps straighten the airflow before it reaches the maf. It's very close to the maf so I think it's needed.
CAI: has a really long piece of pipe. By the time the air gets to the maf, it's already going in fairly even/consistant flow. So the maf should be getting a good reading.
Restrictions. As I understand it, the restrictions are in the pipes themselves and maybe the bends. It's kinda like pressure losses in a compressor's airhose. You get xxx pressure drop for every xxx length of xxx sized airhose you have. Bends might affect this too but I suspect it's much more from the length of the pipe itself.
Ahhh, I see. The long pipe is the major restriction, not so much the filter.
Well then, what about introducing some sort of swirling tornado effect to the air flo? At the air filter inlet, putting a circular fan blade like contraption between the filter and the pipe, thereby making the air come into the pipe in a swirly fashion, wouldn't that reduce the pressure loss thru the pipe?? I would think that it might increase the air velocity b/c the the swirling air, when it encounters the bends, won't lose as much velocity when being deflected into another direction, and, the resistance of the pipe should go down because there is less air "rubbing along the edge" so to speak, and the pipe resisitance is majorly influenced by the amount of air passing across it. You know, the air in the middle of the pipe is flowing relatively freeely, but the air running along the inside edge of the pipe is being dragged.
DW
Well then, what about introducing some sort of swirling tornado effect to the air flo? At the air filter inlet, putting a circular fan blade like contraption between the filter and the pipe, thereby making the air come into the pipe in a swirly fashion, wouldn't that reduce the pressure loss thru the pipe?? I would think that it might increase the air velocity b/c the the swirling air, when it encounters the bends, won't lose as much velocity when being deflected into another direction, and, the resistance of the pipe should go down because there is less air "rubbing along the edge" so to speak, and the pipe resisitance is majorly influenced by the amount of air passing across it. You know, the air in the middle of the pipe is flowing relatively freeely, but the air running along the inside edge of the pipe is being dragged.
DW
I don't think so. Any object placed in the path of the airflow would restrict airflow IMHO.
Originally posted by dwapenyi
Ahhh, I see. The long pipe is the major restriction, not so much the filter.
Well then, what about introducing some sort of swirling tornado effect to the air flo? At the air filter inlet, putting a circular fan blade like contraption between the filter and the pipe, thereby making the air come into the pipe in a swirly fashion, wouldn't that reduce the pressure loss thru the pipe?? I would think that it might increase the air velocity b/c the the swirling air, when it encounters the bends, won't lose as much velocity when being deflected into another direction, and, the resistance of the pipe should go down because there is less air "rubbing along the edge" so to speak, and the pipe resisitance is majorly influenced by the amount of air passing across it. You know, the air in the middle of the pipe is flowing relatively freeely, but the air running along the inside edge of the pipe is being dragged.
DW
Ahhh, I see. The long pipe is the major restriction, not so much the filter.
Well then, what about introducing some sort of swirling tornado effect to the air flo? At the air filter inlet, putting a circular fan blade like contraption between the filter and the pipe, thereby making the air come into the pipe in a swirly fashion, wouldn't that reduce the pressure loss thru the pipe?? I would think that it might increase the air velocity b/c the the swirling air, when it encounters the bends, won't lose as much velocity when being deflected into another direction, and, the resistance of the pipe should go down because there is less air "rubbing along the edge" so to speak, and the pipe resisitance is majorly influenced by the amount of air passing across it. You know, the air in the middle of the pipe is flowing relatively freeely, but the air running along the inside edge of the pipe is being dragged.
DW
Come to think of it, I gather the MAF would be screwed up trying to read the airflo if the air comes swirling in. I assume that the MAF works best when the airflo is non-turbulent and straight. Circular airflow would have air on the outside going faster than the air on the inside, and the MAF would be reading the inside flo etc . . . . . giving the ecu a slgihtly off reading, making the car run a bit lean, I guess?? Oh well.
DW
DW
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